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New 17th Xpack AA's And SPELLS( ALL READY STARTED SoE realsed info)

Started by Blarp, April 07, 2010, 07:29:52 PM

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wildwaters

How about a new Disc or AA that sends our pet into a blind rage that gives it a huge dps increase for a short period and then sacrifices the pet? Something along the lines of 'you hit my buddy and now Ima eat you'.
The 'kills the pet part' could be that the pet dies or it could get hit with a reduction in health or damage out put. If the damage out put was high enough or duration long enough it could help up our burst dps a bit. Give it a reasonable refresh rate. No idea what to call it.

Or maybe shared BA? Same mod's as BA only hits our pet too? I know we have GBA but it is just not as powerful. No reason some of our aas shouldn't be accessible by our warders so long as they don't try to link them.

Also how about a new aa or an upgrade to BA that includes spell damage mods? Something that would work on DoT's and Direct Damage spells to increase them while we are under BA.

One thing I was thinking about when I had wildwaters loaded up the other day was the large amount of clicks we are doing to put out damage and deaggro compared to other classes.  I think trying to upgrade some of our current aa's to give us better burst dps and still maintain our sustainable dps might be better than them adding a whole new bank of buttons for us to click. I don't know about you guys but that is one thing that makes putting out higher dps numbers difficult - the shear numbers of abilities you have to click, time and watch for stacking issues.

Sharrien

New/upgraded AAs:
1.  Prolific Minion - More dps is good dps.  Pets are our thing and we have a ton of AA that would improve the performance of short-duration pets that proc from our warders.  Make them have relatively high hp and/or avoidance like Yowl and please make them shrunk like mages' Host pets.

2.  Cripple AA - Like the old Incapacitate spell, this should debuff the melee abilities of the target, like Agi, Str and AC.  To be useful in raids, this AA should stack with or complement the similar Enc spells like Fragmented Consciousness.  Stat debuffs should be increased for current content and another factor added, like reducing block/parry, dodge, flurry chance, etc.

3.  Paragon with Critical Effects - Personally, I like a doom effect at the end that gives a burst of hp/mana.  Allowing paragon tics to crit would also be good.  Paragon has increasingly lagged behind the rate of increase in HEM so that it is giving a smaller and smaller percentage of the average pool and also of typical spells.

4.  Group Celerity – We have this already as a component of Unrivaled Rapidity, but it doesn't make much sense paired together since the pet buff lasts over an hour and the group haste just 15 minutes.  Single target haste takes forever to cast if you are buffing more than one toon.  Group Celerity would be a convenience AA that a lot of people would probably enjoy having, but would not really change the game at all.

5.  I like Jahras' idea for a self-only mana reiterate effect.  Group or targeted version would tread on chanter toes, but a self version would be a good way to raise dps.  Bonus points if it could also affect warder procs.

6.  Increase warder dps.  Hit harder, faster, more strikethrough of defenses.  Increases should be primarily melee based rather than procs/spells.  One of the strengths of our pets is that their dmg is mostly melee that can't usually be resisted.

7.  Armor of Wisdom.  Need some more ranks.  Our class is the worst protected of those who dive into the thick of the fight and take hits.

8.  Reduce cast time on paragon and focused paragon.  I don't mind being asked to pump someone up during a fight, but I hate how long it takes to cast.  Can't count how many times I've been interrupted trying to MGB para during a raid.

9.  Innate Gelid Claw.  Would like this a lot, even if it had no dmg component.

10.  Hastened/Extended Protective Spirit.  Since we are often next on the hate list after the tank, a little more time on this disc would make a big difference as the next tank tries to get aggro or we try to FD.

Spells:
1. Ferocity.  Besides the atk, it needs something more.  How about +skill atk similar to the stat that is now showing up with Cleave on some UF items.  No idea if there would be stacking issues.  Another option might be strikethrough, but only if it would still provide a significant additional bonus even if the target already has 35% worn strikethrough.

2. Fluffy, Sic Balls!!  Proc stun that works on higher level mobs, nearly any mob that isn't specifically stun immune.  Tradeoff would be long recast and hit limits, maybe stacking conflict with Hobble/Fellgrip.

3.  Spiritual Verve.  The atk component of this buff is small and doesn't seem to have a significant effect these days.  Future SV should give bonus Heroic STR or DEX.

4.  Friendy Pet.  Current spell needs to change, we should not have to wait for the next expansion.  Make it heal target's target or a group heal.  Current form provides little or not benefit.  If we want to really go crazy with it, have the proc throw a short duration one-hit rune on the target's target or group.

I like the idea of Spirit of Protection, but it seems more of a knightly ability.  Besides, I would rather be in a melee dps group than an accessory for the tank group.

Weapon specialization.  What do we want it to do?  If we're just asking for purchased skill cap increases, how much would 10 or 20 more points really be worth for hit% and/or dmg per hit?  I just want to make sure that we don't think we're buying with our AA a stein of foamy micro-brew lager but end up getting light beer in a can.  If weapon specialization could add +dmg per atk then we might be on to something.
Savage Spirit Sharrien Dreamstalker
Primal Elementalist Ravingronn Blazewarden
Maelin Starpyre

Sharrien

Quote from: wildwaters on April 12, 2010, 05:47:48 PM
How about a new Disc or AA that sends our pet into a blind rage that gives it a huge dps increase for a short period and then sacrifices the pet? Something along the lines of 'you hit my buddy and now Ima eat you'.

I don't like the idea of pet sacrifice at all.  Besides the fact that so many of our abilities are tied to having a live pet, I think that the dps increase would have to be impossibly huge to make up for the sustained dps lost from a dead warder.
Savage Spirit Sharrien Dreamstalker
Primal Elementalist Ravingronn Blazewarden
Maelin Starpyre

wildwaters

Quote from: Sharrien on April 12, 2010, 06:53:01 PM
Quote from: wildwaters on April 12, 2010, 05:47:48 PM
How about a new Disc or AA that sends our pet into a blind rage that gives it a huge dps increase for a short period and then sacrifices the pet? Something along the lines of 'you hit my buddy and now Ima eat you'.

I don't like the idea of pet sacrifice at all.  Besides the fact that so many of our abilities are tied to having a live pet, I think that the dps increase would have to be impossibly huge to make up for the sustained dps lost from a dead warder.

I think that my idea was more burst dps over a short term fight, for example a UF named would be a perfect fight for this ability. As far as killing the pet /shrugs it could simply 'expend' itself and a buff could be place on it to lower its dps for a corresponding time period. Of course you could push for something that didnt result in any negative effects as well. I just think the lore would be cooler for an ability that hurt the pet in some way, kind of like momma warder went into a blind rage that the mob attacked you and tore the mob to shreds but suffered greivous wounds. Let's face it, some abilities have to have lore or they just aren't as fun >.<

The thing about that and the pet targeting BA that would worry me more is how much would they let our pets stagnate if we had those abilities to 'send out pet into disc mode' more often?

bradam

Quote from: Sharrien on April 12, 2010, 06:53:01 PM
Quote from: wildwaters on April 12, 2010, 05:47:48 PM
How about a new Disc or AA that sends our pet into a blind rage that gives it a huge dps increase for a short period and then sacrifices the pet? Something along the lines of 'you hit my buddy and now Ima eat you'.

I don't like the idea of pet sacrifice at all.  Besides the fact that so many of our abilities are tied to having a live pet, I think that the dps increase would have to be impossibly huge to make up for the sustained dps lost from a dead warder.

I would vote no on anything that kills pet ever.  We share an unique life long bond with our pets where other pet classes simply animate a corpse or enslave a random elemental.  Harvesting pets is a mage thing I'd rather leave with the mages. 

Now making this same effect on warder occur when we die would be cool.   Have warder enter a blind rage on our death and doing massive damage to whatever mob killed us for either a set time or until that mob died would be really neat imo

Zunar

A new disc/AA similar to monks heel of kanji or what it was...which allowed to use flying kicks repeatedly for a period of time.
This could be called Feral Quickening, and removes the reuse timer on feral swipe for a set period of time, say..20 seconds.

There'd be some burst dps?  :-)

Razimir

Quote from: Zunar on April 13, 2010, 11:10:59 PM
A new disc/AA similar to monks heel of kanji or what it was...which allowed to use flying kicks repeatedly for a period of time.
This could be called Feral Quickening, and removes the reuse timer on feral swipe for a set period of time, say..20 seconds.

There'd be some burst dps?  :-)


I think that would be good idea Zunar. Linking that with other discs, would be nice one.

-Raz

Umlat

Beyond any other spells I've posted elsewhere we need modern slow/cripple abilities.

A dual cast slow/cripple would be a good way to go. As to implementing it we need to ask :

1) Dual Attack % decrease in the cripple part - similar to current enchanter cripples. This is one of the single most needed additions to our repertoire. Even at the expense of 10% to 15% of the actual slow percentage if the dual attack penalty is good enough. Why? The attacks may come in faster but they are less likely to be in groups of multiple simultaneous attacks, which will smooth out the damage we take because of less spiking. Stepping on enchanters toes or not, they aren't the ones in melee where the difference will be felt. Keep the actual percentage 1% to 2% behind the same cripple in the 5 level bracket it's in and keep the AC, str/dex etc. below the enchanter numbers as well, but we could use it.

2) Disease based resist - Having focus of animus makes it a no brainer on switching to a disease based slow. Keeping the resist mod of -30 from sha's legacy, making any changes to actual % of slow and using disease resist should let it land reliably. With the hitting power of UF mobs and the likely increases as we hit the next expansion, we can't afford to continue using spells that can take 3 and 4 casts to land, especially slows.

3) Cast time - All of our combat spells should be aiming for faster casts. As with our dots, put more of the delay between casts in the cool down and not the actual cast time.

Another spell to ask for would be a self & pet listlessness type buff for slows/heals. Both beastlord and warder could use this. Since it's self only it shouldn't step on shamans toes unless we're the tank, in which case they'll be happy we have it because they can load another DoT instead.

Umlat

Ferocity Line - A reduction in refresh time of the spell and/or an increase in duration.
      71+ add an increased resistance to mez/charm/fear spells possibly. (optional)
      76+ Increase resist caps or change to heroic resist buffs.
      76+ Change STA buff to Heroic STA buff.
      76+ Provide an extra offensive benefit (ATK hard cap boost or +skill damage perhaps?)

      This spell line needs to be more than a glorified ATK buff again. Using the above suggestions is a good way to make this spell useful and desirable again, while maintaining the same "feel" as before since it mainly allows for further increase of the same areas as lower level versions. Reducing the refresh time is probably better than providing a group version of the spell or trying to make it an aura and a duration increase would reduce the considerable number of recasts we must endure because of so many short term duration spells and effects.

Growl Line - When this spell was originally introduced, increase damage +x% all skills stacked. This was changed. (I used to be able to stack Bestial Alignment and Bestial Fury and get some critical hits with special attacks close to 10k, no longer tho). So the +20% damage bonus from growl NO LONGER STACKS with the bonus built into our pet haste spells like it was intended to. The % damage bonus from Growl line spells needs to scale upward now so that it provides the combat increase keeps pace with other beastlord spells. Same thing with Feralgia. This change need only be applied to the WARDER's % damage bonus, not necessarily to the recourse the beastlord gets. Increasing both would mean there would be no need to change dd/proc buff as suggested above.

Protective Coloration - An adaptation seen in animals (particularly insects, several frogs are notable as well) is that of bright coloration to signify "I taste bad!" or "I'm poisonous!" to potential predators looking for a meal, as well as actually being unpleasant and/or poisonous. Beastlords should have a spell that mimics this ability, that has a reduce spell/bash hate by x% component (reduce melee hate by x% possibly as well?) for the coloration and a defensive proc that reduces aggro significantly each time a mob hits them for the actual "tasting bad". Some damage could be inflicted by the defensive proc as well in upgraded versions of the spell (But the deaggro should be the main function of the spell. If adding damage will cause problems leave it out). Either self-only buff, or a single target buff.

Civet Strike - Small poison DD that also silences a target for a short period(You try to cast spells after a skunk hits you with its spray!)

Pack Strength - A spell that boosts the combat abilities of a beastlord (and his companions?) based on the size of his "pack" (group size + pets of all kinds, up to a maximun of 10?). Yeah it's a rip off of jolt of many but geared towards melee bonuses instead of a nuke.

Savage (Rending/Ravening/Riving/Ripping/Rapacity) Feral spirits swarm the target and attack it from the ether, attempting to tear it to pieces. This is meant to be a damage spell line, not a pet summoning spell. Causes the target to suffer a variety of physical attacks and possibly a poison or disease DoT from a chart based on a % chance for each possible outcome. (as an example - 10% chance of slashing 3x Skill Attack (121), 10% chance blunt 1x Skill Attack(350), 10% chance of piercing 1x Skill Attack(50) + 500 hp/tick poison dot for 6 ticks, etc.)

Cliknar Carapace - A reduce all skill damage amount buff for self and pet, similar to part of the CoA chest clicky.

Might of the Elders - An upgraded version of Frenzy(lvl 47) that adds AC, heroic Str, Dex and Agi instead of std stats, that might or might not affect our warder as well.

Some sort of "set-up" or "assist" attack/proc. Much as a pack of hunters will work together, launching feints and wounding attacks to leave their prey vulnerable to a killing strike, the beastlord's warder would attack a foe in this fashion, with a proc of this kind giving other attackers a possible opening to strike an extremely damaging or even fatal blow. The effect would probably have a min damage modifier, critical chance modifier and maximum damage modifier for 1 to 2 ticks and/or the chance to proc a telling blow effect (DD?/% total hp dmg? -- something that noticeably HURTS).

Salamander Skin Guard (Bastion of Calliav for nec/mag?) - an update of the pet blocking spells with a maximum number of blocks (say 8 to 10 for rks I to III) that regains its used up blocks up to its maximum number at a rate of 1 per tick?. The buff itself lasts the full duration of the spell with the counter going from 0 to max (8 to 10 based on rank). Having seen what even trash mobs are doing to pets in Underfoot, they need something IMO. A lesser version of 3 to 5 blocks maximum for enchanters, shaman and shadowknights would be something that could be added at the same time without a lot of fuss from others.

That covers most of the spells I'd thought about, all separated out.

Mazame

new AA / skills are fun but I running out of room unless they adding another hot bar I rather have improvements on our current AA / spells rather then seeing new ones added.

Zunar

Quote from: Mazame on April 17, 2010, 07:44:12 AM
new AA / skills are fun but I running out of room unless they adding another hot bar I rather have improvements on our current AA / spells rather then seeing new ones added.

Lol amen to that :)

Hzath

I don't think asking for self/pet combine spells is a good idea.  Their track record isn't great.  If new spells are going to affect us both they should take the Haergen's model where you get part of the spell (werewolf) even if the pet isn't alive but requires a live warder for the full effect (growl buff).

I don't see them upgrading a 5 year old empathic fury spell, even though we've begged for it.  Let's just ask for an upgraded version, similar discs got upgrades in TSS, and make sure the new version if we get it doesn't have a retarded pet auto-target.

I like the feral quickening idea, I threw that idea on our list in the past, but I don't see it happening. The dev's have seen what rogues fury+frenzied stabbing does for burn dps and I doubt we'll see even a watered down version with our feral swipe.

Ferocity.  It's still terrible, odds are 11:1 it will still be terrible next year.  In order for it to be viable it would need to add something like 1500 dps to a pure melee when burning, significantly less (~500) when not. 

It's not a spell, but warder dps is abysmal.  We're already solid sustained dps though, so they can't just upgrade warder dps because then we would just sustain even more.  Any way that could make warder burst much higher for 90seconds would be very nice.  Not another proc.

Triple attack/Flurry, same as the warder thing.  We already sustain really well and all that really does is give us more sustained dps which we don't really need.  It will help our burns yes, but not as much as the gimmicky disc stacking other classes use to get the big numbers.

The other "new" spell idea I had was a new slow in the spirit of Haergen's.  Basically it's just a trigger that fires Sha's Legacy+Lvl 87 disease dot+Lvl 86 poison dot.  Ideally it would be more mana efficient than casting all 3 at once, with the added advantage of applying all the spells faster.  It would be extremely nice in a grouping situation (I hate slowing, this would make it better for me) to get so much done so early in the fight, and even on raids getting both dots cast simultaneously could prove helpful.


What Umlat said about the faster casting.  Yes.  .5 second for our single target damage abilities.  Ranger's got their FSoA down to .5 cast time so getting this for Yowl shouldn't be too hard.  I could see Haergen's staying 1.5 just because it does so much at once.

Faster casting on Focused paragon (.5s) and Group Paragon (2s) as well
Both need SERIOUS upgrades in the hp/mana department next expansion as well

More hastened MGB across the board, it's way too high for current raiding.  It should be useable once every event.


I've got more, but I'm tired.
Beastlord Community Round Table representative.  Feel free to PM me or contact me in game (Drinal.Hzathz) about anything you think needs attention.

Lathon

QuoteFaster casting on Focused paragon (.5s) and Group Paragon (2s) as well
Both need SERIOUS upgrades in the hp/mana department next expansion as well

More hastened MGB across the board, it's way too high for current raiding.  It should be useable once every event.
Yes and yes again!! I posted something similar to this i think it was under End vs Para. Granted i will add in my own CP....

FPoS max:
Quote9: Increase Hitpoints by 720 per tick
10: Increase Mana by 276 per tick
11: Unknown #358 (100/236/0)
PoS max:
Quote9: Increase Hitpoints by 1150 per tick
10: Increase Mana by 610 per tick
With current UF content and raids these need to be raised at least x1.0 - x1.5 of their current values to have any serious benefits in a raid environment.

1) FPoS need a shorter timer.. as posted .5 cast timer is perfect with the lower values compared to the group version

2) PoS also need a shorter cast timer and i would agree with the 2.0s cast considering it can be enough to make a difference if/when it is truly needed. These days when you have tank/melee with 40k+ hp and healers with 40k+ mana...there needs to be a better alternative minus more click pots with lengthy timers (which effects all classes depending on the pot). Hence the reason for an needed upgrade.

Ferocity
Not sure where to begin since it is just an atk buff these days:
Savage Ferocity rk3
5: Increase STA by 103
7: Increase ATK by 371
8: Increase All Resists by 109

Most i can truly say is to not make this an aura but instead make it a group version like Shaman's Champion and stackable.. for instance:
Overcap the sta
leave the atk as is
take out resists and add Str with overcapped stat
add additional crit proc or weap proc
keep the same recast and buff timer with these mods or similar mods

finally... Pets are actually fine for us with the aa's that we have , just a matter of training them. As is my pet during certain circumstances on /in raids could and does outlive me if he stayed around while i was dead~~

I would like to see more buffs without my pet  needing to be around  to cast (UF group /raid BP being a primary example).. we seem too dependent already why make it more when our pet is mostly a utility to us with all it's added features. I could elaborate more but  hate trying to scroll down to check what i wrote cause the "type" screen keeps scrolling back up =/

Razimir

Quote from: Hzath on April 19, 2010, 10:41:41 AM
What Umlat said about the faster casting.  Yes.  .5 second for our single target damage abilities.  Ranger's got their FSoA down to .5 cast time so getting this for Yowl shouldn't be too hard.  I could see Haergen's staying 1.5 just because it does so much at once.

Faster casting on Focused paragon (.5s) and Group Paragon (2s) as well
Both need SERIOUS upgrades in the hp/mana department next expansion as well

I agree, we need shorter cast times on these. Rather instant but 0.5 sec would work too, I guess.

Warder dps is hard to scale up with new superior weapon dps. One solution would be make pet focuses scale much better.

-Raz

Zunar

What about an upgraded version of Empathic Fury, that lasts 45 seconds...AND boost all pets too...including Yowl pets summoned during that disc is active.