Beastlord Burst DPS

[Hzath]

The ability to enhance our spell damage is something we've always lacked.  With so many other classes already having said ability (most already as a spire), the acknowledgment that our burst dps IS lacking, and the fact that we have a long time to wait until next expansion I think we should push hard for changing third spire as our proposal for a mid-expansion booster.

Admittedly, some of the melee ideas would be rather large and I can see the need for major tuning.  I can respect the decision to wait for next expansion's beta cycle for major changes.

However, the +spell crit chance is a different scenario.  As I said previously, multiple classes already have this ability and some have an identical version to what we're looking for, druids/mages have the ability to stack twincast with their large crit chance for huge gains.  Rangers/SKs have less powerful abilities than twincast that also stack with their +spell crit chance AA.  We have absolutely no way to enhance our spell damage without outside help, the two striking exceptions are Intenisty of the Resolute (7th year vet reward) and Glyph of the Cataclysm.  Anyone can buy a glyph if they choose for 5 AAs, so that is fair enough in my mind.  Intensity however,  takes no skill, effort, or in game competence to acquire...just money and time spent.  As I said before, when stacking 7th on top of other discs for the +crit chance we close the gap with the other pack of dps classes, but it's a damned shame that a large portion of our population doesn't even have another option to gain this effect when it's available to so many others.

I've started to ramble, but I think someone articulate should pm elidroth a request (plea?) to at least consider making SOME (this) change before the next expansion launches.

[Bumkus]

Not sure what we would tell him Hzath, given we don't really know the parameters we are working towards.
1.  What is target dps increase, or more specifically, what is target overall dps for an end-game bst (since this is who this change is mainly directed to help.
2.  What is burn timeframe
3.  What is the max we could add to group level bst before this is considered overpowered.

Here are main points I noted would work for burst:
1.  Possibly increase BA
2.  Use FoS if gains need to be smeared over longer timeframe
3.  Redo Third Spire to be a major Nuke focus

There were lots of other posts about warder dps boosts, foray increases, etc, but they would affect sustained dps too much. 

There were also some post involving new clicked abilities, but I really think we should tune what we got before adding a new button.

I'm trying to boil this down into something even someone with an ogre sized brain can wrap their head around.

Other than BA, FoS and 3rd Spire, did I miss any other existing AA abilities that were mentioned?

[bradam]

What about more or less direct copy of mages Frenzied Burnout?  Set the reuse long enough that the dps amount can be alot, set it to scale against whatever Enhanced Minion level the caster has?

[Khauruk]

What about more or less direct copy of mages Frenzied Burnout?  Set the reuse long enough that the dps amount can be alot, set it to scale against whatever Enhanced Minion level the caster has?

A - many of us are against pet-based solutions.
B - it would have to be absolutely sickeningly insane boost to our pets...it would need to boost our pets to at least 20x their current dps level for whatever duration.
C - there would be a shitstorm from the mage community
D - this is then itemization based (though getting pet foci is easier than before).  It also would require lots of individual tuning, and very possibly requires code support to get it working.  Two of these alone, if true, make it far less likely.

[Bumkus]

Ok, so if no new click or borrowed mage abilities, then we are still at the following
1.  Increase BA
2.  Use FoS if gains need to be smeared over longer timeframe
3.  Redo Third Spire to be a major Nuke focus

This list is fine.  If Elidroth does not come back here to comment, then we can PM it to him.  Depending on what his target boost is, we can start suggesting specific numbers.

I'm sure we could keep swirlin' this around the pot, but we're at the point where we need feedback.

[Hzath]

2.  Use FoS if gains need to be smeared over longer timeframe

I want to add, it's more than just the duration of Frenzy of Spirit it's that it's an existing click we have.  It's degraded in usefulness, so rather than give us a completely new click to boost our dps, give a beefed up second rank (doing whatever it is you decide) so we don't have new clicks to worry about.  The in game description is so vague just about any modifier could be added.

[Lerash]

Just a thought here - how about an aa that when activated you will cast 4 pets with the yowl line of pets everytime while its active - effect could last from 1 to 3 min and recast could be 10 to 15 min, and you would be able to use it even if warder was dead.

[Mazame]

Just a thought here - how about an aa that when activated you will cast 4 pets with the yowl line of pets everytime while its active - effect could last from 1 to 3 min and recast could be 10 to 15 min, and you would be able to use it even if warder was dead.

I sorry but the last thing I want is another AA to click I rather return the aa we go then add to the list for things to click
'

As said for the ywol line would love an aa to up the % chance for 4 to spawn but would prefer it as a pasive thing..  say 2% per aa and 10 ranks. that would make it a 40ish % chance to spawn 4. but this is about burst DPS and so that to me would be more for a diffrent topic.

[Hzath]

Just a thought here - how about an aa that when activated you will cast 4 pets with the yowl line of pets everytime while its active - effect could last from 1 to 3 min and recast could be 10 to 15 min, and you would be able to use it even if warder was dead.

Very good suggestion, it's been asked for in the past but if no one mentioned it in this thread great catch because it would work very nicely.

[Thorgador]

Just a thought here - how about an aa that when activated you will cast 4 pets with the yowl line of pets everytime while its active - effect could last from 1 to 3 min and recast could be 10 to 15 min, and you would be able to use it even if warder was dead.

I wouldn't mind a new activated aa at all it it were like this, I very much like this idea, would be a nice boost to have during burns; I would just add this aa to a hotkey firing different aas / discs for a burn situation, make such an aa last the same as GBA and could fire both + AoWarders + Feralgia/Yowl at the same time with just one hit :P

[wildwaters]

Of course an extra rank of BA that granted significant spell increases wouldn't be a bad idea. It would mean we would have to click shit less.

[Sikkem]

So anyone received any feedback on possible directions/limitations etc? 

Or is this also dead in the water like so many before it?

[Hzath]

Also, one of the issues we have is Beastlords (in our testing) seem to be better off in the group game, but in a bad way in the raid game. The problem of course is, adding value to the raid side, without blowing the group side out of balance.

It's absolutely on my radar, but not something I can likely make drastic changes to until the expansion.

That's all I'm aware of.  I think we're just stuck twiddling our thumbs for a few more months.

[Hzath]

Ferociousness of the Pack - short refresh skill attack that scales up based on PCs on the target's hate list similar to the way Jolt of Many scales up for number of pets

I'd rather have that Fero of the Pack based on pets as well, or it won't be all that useful for soloer or duoer, while if it is based on pets we can use it to full effectiveness alone (Yolw, AotW and Warder) making it useful to all who have it and not just certain people. Other then that I like the Idea, I like Skill Attacks since our discs boost them too.

I'm more inclined to want the potential jolt of many skill attack to work off of pets, but either way is fine.  I really like the idea, and being melee based and scaling up with more pets (or players, like raids have) it would definitely be a burst type ability so I copied it over.