Sha's Revenge

[Tastian]

I can see how some of it get's annoying and some of it actually is irrational.  I once had a PoV group (/sigh) that turned down my level 64 friend with full spell book and over 200 AA's because they wanted the level 65 that had...FOUR AA and NONE of his 63+ spells.  This of course was a bit extreme and annoying, but it happens.

In the case of a bst and slow though you are being invited as slower.  As much as you may not want to be a spell or a skill or whatever.  As versitle as bst are the simple truth is sometimes we are literally wanted and invited for just one thing.  MGB paragon get's people's attention, Pet hold in spots, 65 slow, and even fero.  Early on I got a few melee that quickly picked up on me keeping fero on 4 people and liked it.  *shrugs* I can see how it get's annoying, but a the sametime it's a huge bonus.  It's like all the enc that complain people seek them out so heavily for buffs.  Certainly they aren't just this buff or that buff despite what some might think, but it certainly get's you some business.

[TerjynPovar]

Well, let's draw a parallel here.

Do you ask that 65 Warrior if he has an Enraging blow weapon before you ask him to join?

No, that'd be ludicrous.

But for most groups this would be the same exact question, as that Warrior will be that much more effective as 65% slow over 50% slow.

For that matter, I cannot think of any other class, anywhere, that gets asked if they have one specific spell/skill/item, yet somehow it's acceptable to ask BSTs this question.

[Beaneater]

Do you ask that 65 Warrior if he has an Enraging blow weapon before you ask him to join?

No, because the warriors SOLE function in an xp group is tanking.  You don't recruit them for dps OR tank.  You recruit them only for tanking.

For that matter, I cannot think of any other class, anywhere, that gets asked if they have one specific spell/skill/item, yet somehow it's acceptable to ask BSTs this question.

Rangers get asked if they have EQ/AM3 quite often.
Druids get asked if they have their CH spell if being recruited as group healer.  

If you are being recruited for dps, the slow doesn't matter.  However if the group is in need of a slower, and that is why they are asking you (read: you would not even be considered for the group if they were only looking for dps - group wants a slower only) why would it be so hard to accept that they want to know if you have the best possible slow available to your class?

[TerjynPovar]

No, because the warriors SOLE function in an xp group is tanking. You don't recruit them for dps OR tank. You recruit them only for tanking.

Do you even know what an enraging blow weapon does?  Quite obviously the answer is no.

Rangers get asked if they have EQ/AM3 quite often.
Druids get asked if they have their CH spell if being recruited as group healer.

The lesser Druid complete heal costs 6 plat at a vendor, so every druid in existence would answer yes to your question.

The Ranger example is a good example though, and you are right, people get asked that.  Doesn't change what I think either, if I was a Ranger who got asked that I'd have exactly the same response.

. However if the group is in need of a slower, and that is why they are asking you (read: you would not even be considered for the group if they were only looking for dps - group wants a slower only) why would it be so hard to accept that they want to know if you have the best possible slow available to your class?

It's not hard for me to accept.  I don't need them anymore than they need me.  So I say screw you for asking.  That's my prerogative.  I'm not interviewing for a job here, this is a game.

[Beaneater]

Do you even know what an enraging blow weapon does?  Quite obviously the answer is no.

Sure I do.  And reading comprehension is your friend.   My point is that you don't say "Hey warrior, we need some dps - do you have XXXX weapon?"  Their sole function is to hold aggro and tank, and are presumed to be able to do that, with or without weapons that generate more aggro.

Beastlords however can perform multiple roles in a group, including (but not limited to) slowing.  If that is what they are being recruited for, people want to make sure that they can slow as best as possible.  

All I am saying is that before you decide to flame someone (and mediocrely at best) please check your condescending attitude at the door, and understand what is being said before replying.  

And just fyi - I agree that it is annoying.  But wouldn't you prefer to know WHY you are being asked to join a group instead of getting there and then having a group wipe because you didn't know you would be on slows?

[Tastian]

Here's another example.  Rogues.  I remember back in seb CONSTANTLY asking rogues if they had pick lock skill high enough.  We didn't care about their dps at that point, they weren't being asked for dps they were being asked for their utility (in this case lock pick).  

I've seen raids ask shaman if they have malo.  Again a rare(r) spell at the time, but one that for the purpose they were being invited was VERY relivant.  Also like I mentioned with fero I've never been asked if I had it before joining a group but I assure you many have noticed it and made note of it.  Just like a warrior with or without enraging blow weapons.  Their ability shines through.  I know two different SK's that I don't have MT, they simply don't hold aggro they play horrible.  I have a couple warrior friends that I MT for and they just add dps.  Things aren't always about the best or max/min, but at certain times the drop you take going from 75% slow to 50% slow verse going from 75 to 50 will change peoples minds about shm/bst for a group or bst/enc or even bst/bard at that point.  Again I don't recall every asking a question beforehand and I think some cases could go to extremes, however, the case of slowing for a bst is relivant imo and I don't blame any group leader that would ask.

[Noriko]

In any case, the point is, our 65 slow is role-defining if not class-defining.  If a group is looking for a slower (a role) and I don't have my 65 slow (the tool that defines the role), then I'm not a level appropriate slower for them.  Pure and simple.

[TerjynPovar]

Do you even know what an enraging blow weapon does?  Quite obviously the answer is no.

Sure I do.  And reading comprehension is your friend.   My point is that you don't say "Hey warrior, we need some dps - do you have XXXX weapon?"  Their sole function is to hold aggro and tank, and are presumed to be able to do that, with or without weapons that generate more aggro.

Sure, but beastlords can slow with or without Sha's Revenge.  Sha's Revenge is a 40% better slow...a warrior with an enraging blow weapon holds aggro at least 40% better.  It's a simple parallel.  The warrior's DPS has nothing to do with it.

The Rogue situation isn't the same in that it's either 100% or 0%, you either can or you can't.  Beastlords without Revenge aren't at 0% slow capability.

Look, the attitude is because I said in my second post that my annoyance wasn't rational.  Let me say it again:  MY ANNOYANCE IS NOT RATIONAL.

Therefore, no amount of explaining, cajoling, or examples are going to matter in the slightest to me.  And like I said, I can say screw you if I want.  I've turned people down just because they had a dumb name before, this is a far better reason than that. :)

[Grbage]

Just an FYI here. My old main is a warrior and I still pull him out to play along. Prior to the recent melee upgrade it was not uncommon to get tells asking what weapons I had before getting a group invite. Since taunt doesnt have a good success rate a good agro generating weapon set is highly desired if your going to be in the MT position. This is no different then people wanting a bst to have their 65 slow to fill the main slower role.

[Menarion]

Thank god I don't do pickup groups.  No ridiculous worrying about what I do or don't have.  I'd never try anything outside the box if I was always worried about having the best spell for the job.  I'd also never try anything outside my comfort zone.

[Aggy]

I think the problem with Sha's Revenge is in how we talk about it.  

We say "50% slow" and "65% slow"...but that doesn't really make the difference sound like much....when the difference is really rather significant.

The person who is tanking a 50% slowed MOB is taking 42+% more damage than the person who is tanking a mob slowed by Sha's Revenge.

That's 42% more healing that is required....or that the healer needs to react 42% faster to a problem situation...and that is a significant difference, no matter how much DPS you have.

[Noriko]

The person who is tanking a 50% slowed MOB is taking 42+% more damage than the person who is tanking a mob slowed by Sha's Revenge.

That's 42% more healing that is required....or that the healer needs to react 42% faster to a problem situation...and that is a significant difference, no matter how much DPS you have.

I think that's stretching it a bit.  42% more damage is just that, a percentage.  

e.g. An typical unslowed LDoN mob is around 200 DPS, so the 2 slows gives 100 DPS vs 70 DPS.  For a 1-minute fight, that's 1,800 damage difference, and that's assuming all hits land and land for full, which they never do.  At 65, 1,800 damage is just a scratch.  Assuming a decent tank with 8K HP, that's a difference of whether to heal at 50 or at 25, to the healers, its really not a significant difference.

While 42% sounds like a lot, 1,800 damage isn't that significant.  As I said, its all about perception.  If someone "NEED" that 65% slow over the 50% one, that's their problem.  But if I don't get a group because of it, then its my problem.