To be blunt it sucks.
If SOE would pull thier head out of the sand they might realize that some people will not see EP exp levels and they should do something to increase the experience given.
Once a person reaches EP levels of game play then LDoN becomes practically useless, if you factor in GoD augments then there really is no point in doing LDoN's at all.
I started doing LDON's for four reasons:
1) To get my pet aug
2) to maximize DPS through DD augs.
3) To get 40 hp aug's on EP gear
4) to max my adventurer stone
Now I kick myself for wasting even a moment in LDoN until I max out my aa's in zones that have better exp.
I would take the 400 aa's plus that could be accomplished in the same time it would take to max stats on the adventurers stone anytime.
I am betting that most level 65's would do the same.
Seems like such a shame that even the hard LDoN's suck for exp, the concept was great.
I feel better now
Nox
couldn't agree more.
Cept for the fact I found it a great way to level up below 65 on alts.
Fibbs
Heh pretty good for people like me who dont want to get involved with that higher end content. I see your point however.
Grr was meaning to add. Darn straight the xp should be looked at :)
In my opinion LDON exp is just great.
I am not Sol Ro Flagged nor timed, just like 90% of the entire EQ population.
In a normal 65 group of a normal LDON, I get about 40% of an aa per adventure. Each adventure never takes over 30 minutes duration. So in 3 LDONs I've made 1.1 AA's. Now if you add those of 30 min each for 3 adventures thats more then 1 aa every 1hr 30min. Which is above average then you would get in BoT.
Afterall, LDON was not put there for people to earn AA. It was for those casual players to find groups, upgrade gear that otherwise a non-guilded, non-raiding player could get.
So please, just cause you are in that 10% that is high end POP, don't knock it for us lowlifes.
I'm with you Dakat.
LDoN has been the only route for me to upgrade. If i am not soloing, then I am doing LDoN's with friends. I avoid PoP and GoD completely. Experience for my play style has been great and I so much prefer a dungeon crawl to sitting stagnant at a camp and pulling. Yay for LDoN!
I am happy with it. :)
Hmm I make an AA roughly every 75 mins in PoE. That's comparable to LDoN normal xp. My beef with LDoNs is the 'downtime' between adventures and between selecting adventures. I don't know if that can be fixed but it would be nice. I hate seeing 'You are resting' after a fast LDoN. Plus it gets super boring in normal LDoNs after a while. On the plus side, Hard LDoNs still are challenging although I would like to see the xp boosted in there seeing as how they hit as hard as GoD mobs and all.
LDoN 65 normal solo is about 3% aaxp a kill. Course there isn't much to solo but thats a different story.
You forget another reason a raider might do LDoN. Spend time with non raiding guild friends. I know a lot of casual players and often when I group with them its in a LDoN. When spending quality time with friends I don't worry about min/maxing my xp.
QuoteIf SOE would pull thier head out of the sand they might realize that some people will not see EP exp levels and they should do something to increase the experience given.
See I wasn't
Quote"So please, just cause you are in that 10% that is high end POP, don't knock it for us lowlifes."
coming down on anyone not already EP.
What I am saying is this:
If you use LDoN's as a main source of exp, then you should see higher results than what you do see.
Once you get PAST the EP's then LdoN exp is pathetic, maybe if they put some kind of an exp bonus in after reaching a greater amount of adventures that could work.
Atm in PoEa I can bang off an AA every 40mins in a guild group compared with one aa every 1.5 hours in LDON.
Keep in mind LDoN came out after PoP which means that SoE had to figure that some people were actually in EP's before this expansion.
Every expansion I have seen has done two things:
Given better loot and given better exp zones.
LDoN is a waste of time once you are into the EP's, that is not an elite statement, it is a wake up call that a previous expansion outdoes a later one horribly.
I would like to do more LDoN's to augment existing gear, I just can't give up the 20 plus aa's I would loose to do it.
Nox
Quote from: CaaliHmm I make an AA roughly every 75 mins in PoE. That's comparable to LDoN normal xp. My beef with LDoNs is the 'downtime' between adventures and between selecting adventures. I don't know if that can be fixed but it would be nice. I hate seeing 'You are resting' after a fast LDoN. Plus it gets super boring in normal LDoNs after a while. On the plus side, Hard LDoNs still are challenging although I would like to see the xp boosted in there seeing as how they hit as hard as GoD mobs and all.
The thing I've noticed is that after a while it's more efficient to do a hard mission in 45-50 mintues than it is to do an easy one in 20 minutes. For example, if you do an easy one in 20 minutes, then rest for 25, then do another in 20 minutes, you get 102 points in 65 minutes.
But if you do a hard, you can get 105 points in 45-50 minutes. and you won't have to wait for the next one. Even if you are just farming for adventure wins, you're still better off if you stagger them between hard and normal sometimes so that you minimize "resting" time.
There are other little secrets that people haven't caught on to yet, such as the fact that recues are *much* easier than people think they are (I did one in 14 mins recently).
I used to run pet groups with my brother in BoT and got roughly an aa per hour, was nonstop killing until we ran out of stuff to kill and had to wait for repop. Best groups were 4 beastlords and 2 mages(my brother being one).
QuoteLDoN is a waste of time
Wow you only just worked this out? I knew it was a waste the first week. :lol:
I see just as many, if not more EP + able people in LDON than I do casual players.
For me, though, I usually form my own LDON groups. Usually one class is a binding class. Once the adventure is over, that person gates back to the LDON camp and graps another. Usually, we do at least 3 LDON's before someone has to leave.
I ask the people that I invite, if you can't stay for a couple quick LDONs, I'll grab someone else.
I don't play the game as much as I used to, maybe 3 hours total a day. Compared to All day long every day like I used to. So getting an AA per day is fine by me, since getting AA is not a high priority to me.
I'm there to enjoy the game on my own terms. I don't have people telling me I have to be here or there right this minute. If I wanted to, I could have been TIME flagged over a year ago when I was in a TIME guild. I left that behind and enjoy my game the way I want to.
Sadly Vore, noone does pet groups any more :cry:
even the petgroups channel usually only has me in it and everyonce in a while 1 other person.
Quote from: Noxdowne Draggout
I would like to do more LDoN's to augment existing gear, I just can't give up the 20 plus aa's I would loose to do it.
Nox
Hmm. So you are saying that you should get the same XP as PoEA AND augments as well?
Hmmm.
Close...
I would accept 80% of the exp to do a LDoN, I just won't accept 40% to do one.
A 20% exp penalty is equal to the highest racial penalty and at that point you would at least have a choice.
A 60% exp drop is too much.
Nox
Quote from: Noxdowne DraggoutClose...
I would accept 80% of the exp to do a LDoN, I just won't accept 40% to do one.
A 20% exp penalty is equal to the highest racial penalty and at that point you would at least have a choice.
A 60% exp drop is too much.
Nox
How do you balance that opinion against the more prevalent one that LDoN is intended for casual players, isn't intended to equal elemental level exp or gear ( only get us close ) and would infringe on hardcore players "hard work" in some way if it were made any better than it currently is?
If 40 hps augments are that important to you, you will make the sacrifice of lesser exp to do the LDoNs necessary for them or you will decide they are not worth it and do something else.
Less exp per kill in a significantly less challenging zone is not the same as an exp penalty. Elemental exp is the way it is because of the challenge presented by the zones and LDoN exp is no different. As a casual player who likely won't ever see elemental zones I'm pretty darn happy with the exp I get from doing LDoNs.
XP in LDONs is fine. Complaining that it doesn't equal planar xp is ridiculous especially considering the rewards and doubly so now that augments will be removable and all items resellable within the week.
I've done easily 100+ aa just on ldons alone, probably closer to 150 and never felt the need to complain about it - it's xp and guaranteed gear, something not found anywhere else, so the xp difference is perfectly justifyable.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
One thing that I would like to see with LDoN is adding another level above hard (IE "Super Hard" :D ).
Thank you Shrouded, I couldn't agree more.
Of course there is always GoD....
Nox
p/s it is ridiculous to expect planar exp and I never said that, I said the spread is too god damn much. Try to pay attention Rhaynne instead of assuming what a person means.
Well guess no one can ever accuse you of sucking up to mods lolz.
QuoteI would accept 80% of the exp to do a LDoN, I just won't accept 40% to do one.
That is precisely what you said. And you were refering to Earth xp, not... say Hall of Honor.
It's assanine, plain and simple. 80% of Earth XP would STILL BE BETTER than xp in Halls of Honor, Bastion of Thunder or other planar zones. In fact, in Hard LDoN, I find the xp to already be better than BoT - not in terms of XP per kill, but XP for time spent. Typically, groups I'm in can finish hards in about 30-45 minutes and I normally gain at lest 3/4 of an AA. Now, that doesn't compare with the 2 AA/hour I can get in Kod'Taz or Earth, but it is nothing to sneeze at.
Quote from: ShroudedOne thing that I would like to see with LDoN is adding another level above hard (IE "Super Hard" :D ).
Personally, I'd like to see almost the opposite.. a "Medium" LDoN for 75ish points.
Hard LDoNs still require a fairly well balanced group and the primary reason is for loot vs points. Most folks would rather do the fast normals to rack up wins per camp.
The next level of LDoN will come with OoW devs have already stated. Our current 63 hard (theres no such thing as a "65" adventure) will be a 68 normal. There will be a new tier of difficulty added for avg group levels of 68+ and selecting high risk.
Know what i would like to see? New maps implemented along with new scenarios...i get tired of collect this..assasinate that. Also..if they arent going to do anything new with LDON at the very least give us the option of choosing which scenarios we want from 3 choices instead of declining mission after mission.
ldons are so freakin boring i hate them, i hate exp'n to begin with cause you do the same things over and over, but w/LDoN's its worse. EXP boost on ldons and id do them more often than I do now which is almost never. And its not like the exp boost is only for the non casuals, everyone benifets.
Quotetheres no such thing as a "65" adventure
Where do you get this? There are 11 adventure types, geared for characters levels 20-65 hard. Every 5 levels is an interval. It just so happens that the average group level has to be 63 or higher to get the 65 adventures, but calling them level 63 adventures is a misnomer. To get a level 55 adventure you have to average between 53 and 57 - you wouldn't call those level 57 adventures would you?
/hijack off
Hahahaha. I should read rants more often, this is cool.
The exp is a bonus, nothing more. Ldon is good for augments <both bought and dropped> and an upgrade nearly on a par with elemental armor < I say nearly. with the aug's that are available for ldon armor it's good>. If you want super exp, get Kod Taz flagged. If you can't get Kod Taz flagged, and can't get Ele flagged, for whatever reason, then Ldon is a great way to upgrade and get exp, while developing skills you wouldn't get in the mega-DL that is PoFire/PoEarth/KodTaz.
Oh it can give you good bonuses on the PoP charm too. Complaining that you are not getting enough exp from what is effectively slaughtering lvl 61-63 mobs that hit hard as a truck but are not particularly difficult with a good group is. well. sad. As Rhaynne said, you want to have your cake and eat it too. That's just funny =P
I don't think I'd agree completely that LDON was intended for casual players- getting groups during off hours takes a lot of time and sometimes its not even possible-
And what is a casual player anyhow- ? For me it's someone who has limited time- maybe even less time than an LDON mission would take to finish- or someone who logs on at odd hours outside of prime time, which is really the only decent time to do LDON on most servers.
Had there been solo missions available it would serve the casual player, but the way I looked at LDON was something to do outside of raiding. Remember- the raider hasn't anything to buy in bazaar suited for him that wouldn't be a downgrade so what is he to do ? Get augments and maybe a piece or two in a choosen slot his raiding has yet fullfilled.
Frankly, if I have the time for putting or getting an LDON group together, I've got time for raiding as well. heck, most raids go faster.
The system worked well in AO, but in that game solo missions are possible, and the higher level loot was found in team missions.
With LDON that seperation is between normal and hard missions, and has left no true casual player options.
LDON, though looked by most as a downgrade to PoP in terms of loot, is really a supliment to PoP with the augments.
I think the system does need reworked to actually offer something to the casual player- it's the single biggest reason most tire of the game is the narrow options left to most at the high end- aside from the numerous bugs that continue to plague the game.