Tas i need you to ask sony a question for me
in omens now that we can get to 70th am i still have penalty to reg xp and if so why if i dont get more regan and ac as a iksar.
mabe eitehr there should lift the penalty or make it still worth having
oka i think my question here has gottin people off track its not that i dont know what i got myself into
its am i stilll paying for rascal abiltys that stoped scaling and if so can they stop the penalty post 65 or mabe scale its so all the races get somthing that goes towards the style of their race and yes i mean all the races
what woulkd be cool is a revamp of teyh racial abiltys you can buy them with devlopment ponts at char creation but have ot pay with xp penaltys or by them with aa xp after 51 make them worth while though
You do get more AC and Regen as an Iksar.... It just mattered more when you had lower hp and ac.
Kat
Hehe the exp penalties are kinda rough. Early on in the game I could kinda see most of them, but especially with gear and AAs the marginal gains really don't warrant 20% or whatever imo. I'll ask them about it just to be sure and let ya know when I get an answer.
Yeah, the xp penalty sucks...
But most people knew what they were getting into when they picked troll or iksar, and to a lesser degree ogre.
I'm not all that bothered by it because I like being an iksar, and to be quite honest it's really not so bad IMO.
I still enjoy playing the game, and I'm not too worried about how long it takes to get to max level again. But that's just me.
Quote from: Atropine_BBYeah, the xp penalty sucks...
But most people knew what they were getting into when they picked troll or iksar, and to a lesser degree ogre.
I'm not all that bothered by it because I like being an iksar, and to be quite honest it's really not so bad IMO.
I still enjoy playing the game, and I'm not too worried about how long it takes to get to max level again. But that's just me.
heh, when I picked my iksar (the day Kunark was released), level 60 and ZERO aas was as high as I had to go. Knowing now how it would affect the 10 more levels and hundreds of AAs, I would not choose one again. That is the powergamer in me. I keep a low level twinkish ikky when I feel like being a roleplayer.
I never really noticed the xp penalty 3 years ago playing an Iksar monk. I really noticed it two boxing my Iksar Beastlord and my WoodElf Druid though. For the most part in the higher end my pair have smoothed out xp wise. Most of that though is from me doing some LDoN stuffs w/o the bot or him out of a group though. In my 30s and 40s especially there were a few points I would not group the two to give the Iksar a leg up exp wise. Never really cared about getting a rez for the bot for the same reason - he would naturally catch up.
I don't regret choosing an iksar at all. My regen advantage over other races is still the same what it was numerically, it's just been lessened relatively. And the AC advantage has not changed.
So yeah that's the powergamer in me talking :lol:
As they cant really remove the xp penalty at this stage in the game without serious level issues, they need to think about giving very substantal boosts to the AC/regen for iksar and regen for trolls. The marginal boost especially post 65 really doesnt justify the 20% penalty at these levels.
QuoteAs they cant really remove the xp penalty at this stage in the game without serious level issues, they need to think about giving very substantal boosts to the AC/regen for iksar and regen for trolls. The marginal boost especially post 65 really doesnt justify the 20% penalty at these levels.
Erm, you KNEW about the penalties when you created your char. You get more regen and ac than ogres and barbs and vah shir. When you created your character you must have known that, and that it cost more in exp. Made your bed, (and bragged about your ac and regen) so lie in it.
QuoteKnowing now how it would affect the 10 more levels and hundreds of AAs, I would not choose one again.
FYI - The exp penalty ONLY affect level exp, not AA exp. I know its been mentioned before, but some still seem to be confused by this, so one more mention wont hurt.
Aside from that then yes, I also think the exp penalties are hitting very hard now. But then again I knew it when I choose Iksar way back. The sad thing is, that the way I have been playing almost from the start, I really havent been getting much from the extra regen and ac. But thats ofcourse my own fault :)
Wouldent change race now anyway, everyone knows lizards are beautifull!
Quote from: CilastizQuoteKnowing now how it would affect the 10 more levels and hundreds of AAs, I would not choose one again.
FYI - The exp penalty ONLY affect level exp, not AA exp. I know its been mentioned before, but some still seem to be confused by this, so one more mention wont hurt.
Actually, I didn't know that. I don't have any exp hindered races past 60 so I never really looked at AA rates with them. I do recall seeing many heated arguements on this board and others about the penalty. Some say it affects AA and regualr, some claim only regualr, others have claimed it only affects AA if you have split exp on.
If it definately doesn't affect AA earning, then great. The exp penalty is still warranted for the racial advantages.
Yes Latang I knew of the xp penalty when i made my char, and it IS a very nice advanage up to about 60 or so. 65 and 70 didnt exist when I rolled. The issue is that does the off set for the xp penalty scale up to 70. And right now I dont belive it does. I havnt seen any 66+ numbers(and I dont tend to think about checking this kind of thing when im naked and unbuffed waiting on the rezwindow)so I havnt checked myself. Think back, once upon a time ago, hybrids got an xp penalty for being able to melee and cast. This was eventually removed. Im not asking for anything of the kind on this, just a review of the regen numbers and AC bonus(or effectiveness for slam for the big races) up to 70. When we made the charaters, there was an assumption that the bonus we gain for the xp penalty would balance through the levels.
Personally I'd rather have the abilities scale well rather than give up the penalty but since they massively upped sitting regen for non-iksar/trolls my regen is pretty meaningless & neither the regen nor the ac make much difference after 60 as they are currently set.
--Kreseth
Innate standing regen is 1 + (level / 10). Trolls and iksar get an extra point at 51 and 56, and the total is then doubled to get the final regen number for iksars and trolls. At level 70 this would make standing regen 8 for most races, and 20/tick for trolls & iksars.
One way to figure out whether the penalty is worth it (putting aside AC for a moment for iksars) is to come up with a time value for an extra 12 points of regen. The most recent standard would be the Omens AA "healthy aura", which is 3 aa per point of regen. If this scale continued, then 12 points of regen would be 36 aa points total.
If the additional time it takes an iksar/troll to level from 66-70 is less than the time it would take to earn 36 additional AA points, then the penalty is offset in terms of time at least.
Another way to look at it is that the penalty is only temporary, but the benefit lasts forever. Once an iksar or troll hits 70, they no longer have to worry about the xp penalty (unless they die a lot and have to re-ding). So even if it took them an extra 20 hours to level from 65-70 (I just made that number up) they have a lifetime advantage. I'd imagine that there are iksars and trolls who've been level 70 for a period of time that vastly exceeds the added time it took them to get there, and they still have that racial advantage whereby equivalently geared and aa'ed classes of other races can't catch up.
Here's a question: does the Iksar AC bonus add over top of the softcap? If not, then it should and that would be enough of a balance, in that regard, to make me happy. As far as regen.. I don't know if they would be able to upgrade it because of the impact that it would have on necromancer soloability.
I like the logic of Bengali's suggestion.
Just to help quantify it, for a non-penalty race, level 59 is roughly 4-5 AAs; going from 51-60, at 50% AA you hit 55 and Baron at the same time, then 59 a little after grabbing Venerable, and you get MGB just after hitting 61. On that basis, 60-65 is going to be around 25 or so AAs, which means that the penalty, just going from 60 to 65, is worth 5 or 6 AAs. People gave figures for the AA equivalence of 66-70 back when Omens started, but I don't remember now what they were.
I still think that the comparative sitting regen rates are unbalanced, however.
Quote from: LatangErm, you KNEW about the penalties when you created your char. You get more regen and ac than ogres and barbs and vah shir. When you created your character you must have known that, and that it cost more in exp. Made your bed, (and bragged about your ac and regen) so lie in it.
That's not a very intelligent comment. Many iksars/trolls were made before level 65 or even 70 existed. They didn't know about changing gear types in PoP and further, and they didn't know what AAs would become available for all in PoP and beyond. They also didn't know about the sitting regen changes. In fact, if knowing the implications of a racial choice into the future invalidates their argument - then they win, because they couldn't know what changes SOE would come up with.
*shrug*
As it happens, I did know the penalties when I started a Troll Beastlord - I'd played a Troll SK for a good long time before that. The standing regen bonus was a great help in leveling, since I mostly soloed my way to 62. At 70, I consider the 20% penalty to have been well spent, even though the extra standing regen doesn't make a huge difference against raid mobs. (I do die well after all those silly casters in AE dot situations. :twisted:)
The sitting regen changes make me wonder if new Trolls are paying too high a penalty now, though.
Well if ikky want compensation for xp, vah shir should have compensation too.
We had a racial ability that was increased stamina regen at the cost of additional food intake.
Stamina regen was then made obsolete
We still consume double the food.
I will file an expenses claim for 1 million pp worth of Iron rations to compensate for this miscarriage of justice otherwise I demand they double Vah shir endurance regen.
Stamina regen makes very little difference, and never did. Safe fall, however, is worth a mint. And, as a previous poster on this subject said, you knew all that when you made your race choice.
Yeah I know, I should have stuck more smileys in so you all knew I was not being serious.
Off topic but ...
Quote from: HerekiStamina regen makes very little difference, and never did. Safe fall, however, is worth a mint. And, as a previous poster on this subject said, you knew all that when you made your race choice.
The stam regen would be a HUGE benne for zerkers. They are really sucking on stam regen (the best they got right now is StamRegen 3 for 15 AAs).
Nah, no class has problems with Stamina regen, melee classes have problems with endurance regen though. Stamina regen was always kinda worthless once your stamina was over 100.
Exactly. Swap stamina for endurance, like SOE originally implied it would be, and we suddenly have a new ball game.
oops, i meant endurance
since the end bar replaced my stam bar, I sometimes use the two interchangably :?
Correct me if I'm wrong:
Iksars get an innate AC Bonus, which if I recall really just amounted to 50 extra AC at level one. I might be wrong here though, I can't remember where I read this.
However, Trolls and Iksar both get Regen, and pay a price for it. While I don't mind a slight penalty for the regen, what I don't like is this:
Available Regen AAs that actually do anything for Trolls and Iksar: Innate Regeneration (+3 Regen).
Available Regen AAs that do anything for any other races: Innate Regeneration (+3 Regen), Natural Healing (+3 Regen), Body and Mind Rejuvenation (+1 Regen), Convalesence (+3 Regen), Healthy Aura (+5 Regen).
I remember way back when, SOE broke the ability for an Iksar or a Troll to take all those AA Regens and actually gain the benefits (Because, at the time, the regen was still potentially overpowering. Mobs didn't hit 700+ on the low end, they hit 200s on the higher end of exp mobs). These days, through items and AAs all the non-regen races can approach, and in some cases, pass, an Iksar or Troll's regen bonus.
I just don't understand the relevance of the penalty anymore. The regen helps at lower levels, yeah, sure. But not as much as the gear that's dirt cheap in the bazaar these days does. No one pays an exp penalty for that. At 60+, and especially 66+, the penalty just doesn't make sense. The regen isn't going to save you. 50hp/tick regen won't mean much to a mob that quads a thousand. These days, I'd say the penalty isn't justified.
I doubt anything will actually come of it though, since major issues are put on the back burner, why would something like an exp penalty get much attention from the Devs (Which, I have always really believed are like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, neat to think are real, sometimes you even get little presents to "prove" they exist, but they don't.)
I believe that all regen AAs work for iksars and trolls.
What was changed was that iksars and trolls used to get double regen from the general regen AAs, but that was changed back to the same as other races. They still get effectively double base regen compared to other races.
Regen is valuable in shortening downtime when soloing, and for necros to balance out lich spells, although this difference doesn't mean a lot post 50. The difference was also largely cancelled out when all races gained extra sitting regen.
So I don't think that it is a screaming out loud black and white issue - but I do think that the exp penalty is too great compared to the benefits, given that the benefits have been significantly reduced, while the penalty hasn't.
Wouldn't the ONLY fix possible be to take away the regens and AC bonus? So you can then complain that they took away the reason you picked the race to start with?
wouldn't it be better to keep the bonuses andp enalties until level 50, then set everyone on a level playing field.
That way you retain the ability to solo yourclass to 50, and from thenon we all know it gets suitably hard enough to make no odds anyway.
Once you hit 70 EXP penalty is nill and void .. hehe
Thats the key .. Get to 70 .. I love my iksar and would not change a thing for my fun times..
The AC and regan make a BIG diffrence in my personal exp.
I am a gimp and can tank fire EXP group .. Not as effecientlly as mabe a pally SK or warrior . But when the group is in a pickle .. I da man ! .
I have soloed the fire ele mobs there too . hehe . I am tough as nails and my AC regan bonus is the contributing factor.
Soo .. To get one you have to put up with the other . I hate leveling . I love AA cause you getta hear that ding more heh .