Rake.... Your thoughts

[whiskaz]

Just want to see some accumulated thoughts on our new skill Rake that we will be getting.


I for one like the idea, but I don't like how its a set amount of damage.  It just means we'll be left in the dust here in a couple expansions due to gear on other melee classes that have skills that evolve with their gear.  When we first came out in luclin we were awesome damage and our pets were on top and we were even considered over powered.  Well our pets never really changed in damage and our melee only got better with a double attack AA and some other stuff.  Rake might make us really favored for damage and pulling agro again, but in a couple expansions it will begin to amount to nothing.  I also believe making the damage of rake modified by our weapons will add a thrill to playing our class again.  Paladins get the thrill of getting their new awesome 2handers for slay undead and rogues for backstab.  Having something to look forward to keeps a person around and still playing this game devs.  I would also like to see feral swipe damage modified by our weapons too!  Hell to make things interesting make it so beastlords have to have a hand to hand weapon to make the combat ability stronger to keep things interesting for beasts when selecting gear. 

[Kanan]

If they would make this a scalar item, based upon the primary weapon's ratio, then it would be very worthwhile imo.  They prolly would end up making it scalar however, up to a certain target dps at the endgame level.  Now, word atm is that it won't be baz bst obtainable... /shrug.. we'll see, but pre-release, its approx 20 dps, per tast.  This is at the level it is first obtainable... and in Demi-Plane as well.  If they want it to be 20 dps for someone who is not in end-game, that's fine... have it scale accordingly... tho mebbe it being (/calcs 170 dps (took my stuff & popped in paired ViCs for weaps instead and lowered accur to 20 & CE to 15 & lowered haste to 100% (i use 108 cuz of overhaste usually)) to 600 dps is approx 3.5X) approx 70dps is something they'd pitch a fit at.  But who knows... frankly, that sounds sorta fair to me tbh, but meh.

[Shamno]

I think even 20 DPs might be a little puny at high end. If it starts at 20 DPs and then scales upward....then all good.

The thing about keepign it seperate from lower ends sort of worries me. I understand the reasoning behind it, heck I am doing to much damage as is thanks to the swarm pet.....thank you akward scaling  I gringe to see it drop so heavy like i know it is going to.

Just abilities seperating from high end and low end does carry alot of grief between the ranks. I am not to fond of the Ancient spells, but those never carry any important balance most the time.....but to treat an ability like this does sort of stink.

I think it should be obtainable low end with low return, but scale heavy as you go up in progression.

[Kanan]

the separating you are talking about: that the part where its not intended for non-high end people?

sorry if that seems obvious.... brainfried bad atm

[Shieara]

My thoughts on it, keeping in mind that I haven't actually participated in beta and had first-hand experience with the skill.

20 dps will be good for me, and I am in favor of something that makes my endurance worthwhile.  However, I also think that it should somehow scale to continue to make it viable as the game ages.  I don't mind spamming abilities though.  I still kick and have to be careful what I tie to the 3 key on other characters because hitting that button to kick is so reflexive.

As far as how we obtain it, I guess I am weird but I would like to see either rake or spirit of O able to be acquired by beastlords of any progression level.  I really liked the way they did our DoN spell where a decent version was available to all and the higher-level version was something you had to raid for.  I am fine with quest based rewards but I hate so see another system like DoDh where a casualish beastlord has a very small chance of ever seeing the spell/disc they released.  At least one should be obtainable by any beastlord willing to put in the time.

Or maybe that is the pansy in me speaking, I dunno.

[Shamno]

the separating you are talking about: that the part where its not intended for non-high end people?

sorry if that seems obvious.... brainfried bad atm

Well I don't mind ancient spellls, because they aren't held in the scape of balance. A class doesn't need them really but gives you something for raiding the high end. I don't need the Ancient nukes and etc. There is no Ancient spell you need to succeed...if Ancients were slows and other important class attributes that would be a different matter.

This rake ability, if set to scale, might be one of those abilities that shouldn't be treated like an Ancient and only for highenders.

It really isn't a rant so much as a concern of how this ability might turn out to be something a little more balance oreinted then an Ancient ever will be. Grant it 20 DPS isn't huge, but if adjusted properly could be something entirely different.

[Dummkopf]

Well, Rake doesnt scale and it will not scale since that is not supported by the game engine for discs like these. And that is the main concern i have about it. As is rake is around 25 dps and that is absolutely fine for the lower end but grossly underpowered for the highend right now. In the future it will be underpowered for all of us just due to normal mudflation with expansions.

Therefore in my opinion Rake is a very bad skill overall. We have of course see how you can aquire it and i am pretty sure its through some kind of mission arc since there are tons of those, some tied in with several smallish raids. At the moment we just have a vague hint from Rytan that it is intended for the highend beastlord but til we know how you can get it ingame that is just a rumour and shouldn't be taken into account.

[Sindaar]

Hmm, but why can't they turn it into a skill which can only be trained at lvl 70 at trainer after you handin something (make it a quest which is doable by the casual beast (and his friends)). Then I see no reason as to why it can't be made to scale like Backstab does..

On the other hand, maybe they already thought of scaling and put +rake dmg on our PoR quest armor  (if there is such a thing), or PoR weapons or other beast items (ones which are worth putting on though :P)

Cheers,

[Kanan]

heh... where's our +feral swipe damage been? ;p

doubt we'll see something that useful tbh =/

sorry... feeling pessimistic today =/

[hakaaba]

I still think rake should have scaled :(

[Rarrum]

Another big question:

Does it have the same bugged range that Feral Swipe does?  If so it will be pretty unusable on many high end encounters, on mobs with a large hit box and ae rampage.

[Shamno]

My question being is how is this being treated any different then Hail of Arrows and Detroyer Volley abilities that rangers and zerkers have. Both scale to the weapons they swing.

Or is Rake tied to the base damage of our bare naked hand to hand ratios? That the reason it isn't scaling?

Also according to Lucy this generates 400 hate? Somehow I can only imagine this as a bad thing in the long run, if it is truelly doing that.

[Dummkopf]

Range from my parses is the same as on feral swipe so it has the same issue.

[Kanan]

bleh.. yep.. both have range = 50 listed on lucy... <3 poorly designed, easy to fix abilities we'll prolly never see changed.

I really hope raid goes well tonight... feeling really pessimistic atm ><

[Pakratz]

I'm on board with the comments here.  Looking forward to bonus dps, but this looks like a poor fit for our current needs, namely scalable dps boost and raid functionality.  Seriously, how can devs duplicate past feral swipe mistake of gimp melee range and also put an aggro generator on it????  WTF?

To be honest, I don't see this expansion offering much to BL, and I probably will not buy it unless I see some sweet items coming out of the missions.  In fact I'm gettin so discouraged at high end BL issues (dps, raid utility) that I'm looking to transition into another game.