Warning - Whiny complaint coming.
There is a way to ignore people in this game. I wish there was a way to keep certain toons (or better yet, accounts) from buying from you in the bazaar.
On my server, there are two toons -- obviously owned by the same person -- who buy up all the high-end gear and crank up the price because he has the only one or two available. Consequently, he's the only one to ever have a Crown of Naradi (278k!), White Dragon Helm, Fungi tunic, Cobalt Greeves or other such items for sale.
And because these items are so rare, it's easy for him to keep a monopoly on the prices by simply buying up the entire supply when another comes available.
It happened to me just now. On one of his toons he had an ODS for 19998pp. I decide to sell mine, and put it up for bid (almost jokingly) at 17500. Now, if you're like me, you feel 17500 is REDICULOUS to pay for an ODS. Sure enough, the guy's second toon comes along and pays my rediculous price only to put it up for resale at 19998. So now he has the only two ODSs available, both the same price.
I'm all for free markets and rampant capitalism, but it's frustrating to know that there are toons that you can actually pinpoint as to the cause of inflation.
I paid 8k for my ODS 7 months ago. In hindsight, I should have just given the ODS to a newbie. At least then I would know the item would be put to use.
I can only hope there's a run on ODSs and soon his aren't worth jack.
Welcome to capitalism. The only thing that would stop him is if people stop paying too much for the crap. Whats so bad about him buying from you? You seem to have supposedly made more money then you think the item was worth, seems like a great deal to me.
I beleive that the problem is, there's no recourse to buying it, EXCEPT from buying from the overpricing jerk.
Monopolies are considered illegal in most capitalist systems, because it takes away freedom of choice in purchasing a product.
But to the original poster, blocking him from buying wouldn't work, he'd just whip up a newb and buy it from you after transferring hte plat
But those people don't have a Monopoly. You can always go kill the monster and loot it yourself. Or buy an alternate but similar product.
QuoteMonopolies are considered illegal in most capitalist systems, because it takes away freedom of choice in purchasing a product.
Monopolies are basically impossible in true capitalism. Notice that the only monopolies we have today are protected by the government. Same applies in EQ. As was mentioned, if you don't like the price you can go get it yourself. If the price gets too high other farmers will notice this and start farming the item to make a profit. Either of those actions will lower the price until it reaches its equilibrium once again.
Quote from: KerathQuoteMonopolies are considered illegal in most capitalist systems, because it takes away freedom of choice in purchasing a product.
Monopolies are basically impossible in true capitalism. Notice that the only monopolies we have today are protected by the government. Same applies in EQ. As was mentioned, if you don't like the price you can go get it yourself. If the price gets too high other farmers will notice this and start farming the item to make a profit. Either of those actions will lower the price until it reaches its equilibrium once again.
Not true. Lets say I discover a spring in my backyard that when you drink from it you become immortal. Since i own the only source of it i can set the price at whatever i want, force people to drink it in front of me so they can't discover whats in it. People will pay whatever i want as a huge huge majority of people want to live forever.
Quote from: KerathQuoteMonopolies are considered illegal in most capitalist systems, because it takes away freedom of choice in purchasing a product.
Monopolies are basically impossible in true capitalism. Notice that the only monopolies we have today are protected by the government. Same applies in EQ. As was mentioned, if you don't like the price you can go get it yourself. If the price gets too high other farmers will notice this and start farming the item to make a profit. Either of those actions will lower the price until it reaches its equilibrium once again.
Not exactly true. You can hold a monopoly if, for example, you hold patents to key components or to products that everybody wants (or needs) or that you are the only person/company that can make these products. If nobody elsa can make them - you have a monopoly.
What usually is illegal are cartells, where manufacturers of the same type of products rig the prices higher than they would be by competition, forcing everyone to buy at these higher prices regardless what brand/manufacturer they chose to buy from.
I think I read somewhere that as a result of this monopoly system, prices on the lower end stuff shot up as well - ie, spider silk 100pp each.
The economy on some servers is ruined from this, SOE need to take a look at how to resolve it :(
I had someone doing this to me from items that I normally farm in Droga. Once this person bought two of the same itme in a row, I knew what was going on, and I started farming those items every chance I got and making tons of money off the person. What was once worth 3-4k she started paying 6-7k for. You know what, after a while that person stopped buying from me because no one was buying them from her.
The price was set by the market at 3-4k for a reason. Unless she had buying power equal to the rest of the market combined, she couldn't keep the prices up forever (this is what the problem was with the exploiters, they did have this buying power).
However, I don't like the underhanded intent that these people have :(
QuoteLets say I discover a spring in my backyard that when you drink from it you become immortal.
Yes you are right, in a fairy tale a monopoly could exist. Can you name anything close to realistic that disproves what I stated?
How many choices do you have for electricity? Natural Gas? I recognize that these are heavily regulated by the cities and states, but honestly in my opinion they are still monopolies.
How many choices do you have on the next "cure cancer miracle" prescription drug? Until the patent expires, you do not have a "generic" alternative. I would also consider this a monopoly.
Duh,
I needed to read your second response Kerath. Seems you do acknowledge "government" monopolies. Still they do exist.
Quote from: KerathQuoteLets say I discover a spring in my backyard that when you drink from it you become immortal.
Yes you are right, in a fairy tale a monopoly could exist. Can you name anything close to realistic that disproves what I stated?
Yes i invent a drug that cures AIDS and patent it.
QuoteUntil the patent expires, you do not have a "generic" alternative. I would also consider this a monopoly.
If you have a Patent on a product, you do not have a monopoly. If you create a product, and do not allow anyone to copy it, it is not a monopoly. A monopoly exists when an INDUSTRY is controlled by a single entity, not a single product.
Ever hear of Microsoft Windows? It runs on over 95% of all PC's sold worldwide. But Microsoft does not have a monopoly. They have copyright and Patent rights to the product that they produce.
Now if Microsoft made it so NO PC ANYWHERE could run without Windows, that would be a monopoly. That is what they were charged with doing in the Lawsuit they are embroiled in now. MS tried to change the prevailing protical to it's .net archetecture, and then preclude any web brouser from working with it except Internet Explorer. That would have given MS a monopoly on internet access.
The buying of all of a certain product is not a monopoly, but it is considered illegal in the US, because you are controling the price. This is called price fixing, and is illegal. The essence is that consumers are denied access to copetitive prices due to the vendor buying all the available product.
But of course, we are talking about EQ, not USA.
Go with Hrann's solution, farm the product, and saturate the market. They'll eventually run out of money.
Ok, well you guys better watch it. I just bought Boardwalk and Park's
Place and am in the process of building Hotel's on both of them.
No in all seriousness, I consider many utility companies a monopoly, water, electric, natural gas, etc. They are heavily regulated though and many times run by the state itself because of the potential for abuse. Still, they have no competitors and set their own prices.
Oh and while I'm thinking about it, what exact penalty did Microsoft receive? Did they ever actually pay a fine, or did they just appeal it. I know they had a judgement against them, but did they actually have to pay any money? I'm just curious, and can't seem to remember.
I think I caught on the news that California won a case against them and a bunch of people are getting vouchers from MS worth $2000... But I caught the end of the piece. I'm not too sure of all the details.
Quote from: KerathQuoteMonopolies are considered illegal in most capitalist systems, because it takes away freedom of choice in purchasing a product.
Monopolies are basically impossible in true capitalism. Notice that the only monopolies we have today are protected by the government. Same applies in EQ. As was mentioned, if you don't like the price you can go get it yourself. If the price gets too high other farmers will notice this and start farming the item to make a profit. Either of those actions will lower the price until it reaches its equilibrium once again.
Yup, because the govenment is quick to break up any other potential monopolies. Take a look at the thing with Microsoft.
Yes, in theory, you could conduct your own land survey, strike your own well, and refine your own gasoline.
And in theory, you can actually get an ODS to drop out of Sebilis.
Actually in a true capitalist society, it is virtually guaranteed that someone will dig their own well - it is only a matter of time until the oil company charges prices that makes that course of action more cost-efficient.
QuoteConsequently, he's the only one to ever have a Crown of Naradi (278k!),
Although it's spelled NARANDI... heheh, you should've seen how happy I was about a month ago when I found a Crown of Narandi for 250k. I swiped it in a matter of seconds. I spent about 2 weeks auctioning to buy it, and finally bought it. During the nights, I offered 370k for it, nobody ever sent a tell, so lucky. But on the other side of it... well... 1 week after I got a Crown of Narandi for 250k, a guy was asking if I still wanted to buy it, he was wanting to trade it for my Old CCoM (Custom Cowl of Morality) which I sold for 115k. That's how EQ is, spend an eternity auctioning for an item, then a week later you save over 50% on the pp you paid for the Crown. I'm not a patient person but... I'm still happy with the result. That's the law of EQ eh? Enjoy the market! :)
Your only solution is to take advantage of them, which it seems like you did to a certain extent with the ODS.
Ultimately though, who cares? You still got the price you wanted for it. It doesn't really matter who buys it.
Farm the item you want. Barring that farm sellable items and sell them for cash to buy what you want.
Why people whine about prices in bazaar is beyond me. If you dont like then go get it yourself.
Problem is people see the bazaar and think it will be easy to get waht they want then bitch and moan about the prices. Money is SOOOO easy to make now in eq legitamately its disgusting. People just tend to be to lazy to put in the work required for it imo.
<---Seller of Fungis at 100k a pop. Never bought one just went down and camped King till I get it. Sometimes I get lucky and am there only a couple hours. Others I can spend 10 hours there and never see him even pop. And I sell it cheaper then most. Typical price is 120-170ish. If someone buys mine at 100 and resells for 150 gratz them a 50k profit. I still got what I wanted out of it. No one forces what price you sell stuff at and no one forces what you buy.
If money's soooooooo easy to make, why do I have 2k after a week of farming split between Hill Giants, Acrylia, and High keep?
Maybe when you're overpricing monopolized items, it moves along a little faster.
Because Hill Giants, Acrylia, and High Keep, in spite of being known as really good money, really aren't that good because they are too known, and you are always competing with others.
I can make more in an hour in some of my favorite money spots than I can in a week of farming Hill Giants against all the trackers and idiots in Rathe Mountains.
Of course in spite of how I'd love to share the wealth, I can't because otherwise my spots would be full even more than they are now. :)
I'll give you a hint though: One is in Luclin, and two others are in the old world.
All three give me more than 750 plat per hour...and I'm not fishing either.
Quote from: The KittenpeelerI beleive that the problem is, there's no recourse to buying it, EXCEPT from buying from the overpricing jerk.
Monopolies are considered illegal in most capitalist systems, because it takes away freedom of choice in purchasing a product.
Not to nitpick, but there is a recourse to buying items that are extremely overpriced by the resident jacknuts on every server. It's called don't buy it if the price doesn't suit your preference.
Just because someone goes around buying up all the items you want and raising the price so ridiculously, doesn't mean they're taking away your freedom of choice. It just means their limiting it somewhat. At the end of day you
still have the choice to walk away w/o buying it .. or to buy it and cry about the gouging.
Don't get me wrong though, it's absolutely insane the way the in-game economy is flunctuating so much. I don't like it either, but, the part that makes me giggle is eventually (as with all things) it will all reverse and the little bazaar bots will be left with nothing. Guess who'll be whining then?
Hint: Not me <3
Stunky Beast - Torvonnilous
Quote from: TerjynPovarOf course in spite of how I'd love to share the wealth, I can't because otherwise my spots would be full even more than they are now. :)
I'll give you a hint though: One is in Luclin, and two others are in the old world.
All three give me more than 750 plat per hour...and I'm not fishing either.
Aw, c'mon, man, I'm the only guy on this board from Bertoxx... At least that I've ever seen. You can tell me... :D
Stunk,
First off, welcome to the forum.
Second... Yer a dum-dum :P
Sure, I have the freedom to walk away... But that doesn't grant me the overpriced item that is otherwise unavailable. Say, a level 65 spell... Gee, I think I'll go solo in Fire today. Maybe an ODS? Hey, i lived in Sebilis for 6 levels with my Shaman, never saw one once, stands to figure my first kill should get me one, right?
M\aybe if I wait around long enough or come back later, one will be at a lower price... But there we have the original problem - The overpricer is looking for those, as well, and buying them up with alts. Welcome to the world of the plat seller, my friend. A hack here, a little overpricing there.... What person really needs to sell 17 300k items? :roll:
Note - We need an edit button.
How, exactly do you think it'll reverse, by the way? The two best plat sinks in the game have either been removed or nerfed into oblivion, and people aren't exactly gobbling bark potions off of merchants.
Every hill giant that gets killed, every 11-pound tuna sold makes a platinum piece that much more worthless. Kinda ironic, the more platinum there is exchanging hands, the less it can actually buy. Really the only way you can impact it is to just destroy all the plat you ever make in the bazaar.
And "like all things"... Torpor and Malo, classic examples, have been in the game since Kunark. With LoY, they became researchable, and with LDoN, another source of the ingredients for them appeared. They sell for higher prices than their superior rune spells, Quiescence and Malos, which are not researchable. You can see a similar effect on say, Spirit of snow and flame. Their drops were increased, prices took a small hit, then went up again.
There's two things that reverse a price - A nerf to the item (5k DoFM? You bet) or an increase in drop rate.
Quote from: The Kittenpeeler
Stunk,
First off, welcome to the forum.
Second... Yer a dum-dum :P
Sure, I have the freedom to walk away... But that doesn't grant me the overpriced item that is otherwise unavailable. Say, a level 65 spell... Gee, I think I'll go solo in Fire today. Maybe an ODS? Hey, i lived in Sebilis for 6 levels with my Shaman, never saw one once, stands to figure my first kill should get me one, right?
M\aybe if I wait around long enough or come back later, one will be at a lower price... But there we have the original problem - The overpricer is looking for those, as well, and buying them up with alts. Welcome to the world of the plat seller, my friend. A hack here, a little overpricing there.... What person really needs to sell 17 300k items? :roll:
Dear The Kittenpeeler :P ,
First off, thank you for the welcome!
Second .. I will not deny that I am a "dum-dum" .. you're so colorful!!
Patience. It sucks, but I guess that's your resolution. You aren't 65 yet, so you're in luck that you don't have to galavant off to Fire (or any other zone in PoP) to snag a rune. ODS? Well, I'd not wear one so I can't say I feel your pain there. Either way it all boils down to patience and persistance. I know it sucks, but at least you have the choice to buy it or walk away. Just keep in mind someone will buy it, if they don't the seller will eventually lower price until someone else does.
As for the question about what person really needs to sell 17 300k+ items? Reverse the situation and put yourself in that persons shoes. If you aren't going to use the items, what would you do? Give them
all away? Doubt it, if that's your answer sing it to a sister that doesn't know better! :p I think it boils to down because the price is higher than you like (happens to me daily) and out of the range you can afford. It makes you annoyed. Perfectly justified, just make sure you understand the difference.
I can tell you as someone that doesn't hurt for plat, that it's not hard to make. Need tips? You know my server and name, nothing is stopping you from sending me a tell. Also, keep in mind that people that have plat dripping from their veins doesn't neccesarily make them a plat seller .. some of us just don't know what to buy!
Point? I hate price gouging too! I just avoid the sellers that do it, as do most sane people on Torv .. and we have their names and all their bazaar bots on a list. At least I do.
Stunky Beast - Torvonnilous
The price gouging sucks, true. But it's kinda like gas here in CA right now. In the past few weeks gas prices have shot up about $.50/gallon. You really have just a couple choices, pay the rip-off price, hunt around and find the cheapest place you can, or go without and buy a bus ticket.
P.S. Kanne, you are correct, most utilities are monopolies, in fact they are referred to as "natural monopolies" and are really just done that way to make our lives easier. So we don't have several power lines, gas lines, water, etc running to each home, one company is given the monopoly. This is changing recently with deregulation in some states, but that's neither here nor there.
P.P.S. And Graeloth, you're partially right about the MS suit in CA. Microsoft just settled right off the bat though to put the whole thing behind them. It was like if you bought Windows, Office or Word or Excel (including software prepackaged on a system) since like 1997 you could get a voucher for between like $15 and $30 for use to buy pretty much any computer product. If you applied for more than I think 5 vouchers it was a whole complicated process.
QuoteIf money's soooooooo easy to make, why do I have 2k after a week of farming split between Hill Giants, Acrylia, and High keep?
Did I ever mention those zones? No I didnt because to be honest they suck for making cash. But looks like you fall into the cookie cutter method of trying to make cash.
Here is a hint, try exploring on your own. Do some actual research and not expect everything to be handed to you. One of the best money zones I go to I found quite by accident. But on a good night can avg 2k+ an hour and depending on drops avg can get as high as 5-6k per hour.
Now am I going to tell you where? Um no. Go find it yourself or you can just continue to whine about how unfair and unjust things are when its not being handed to you on a silver platter.
I have NEVER played the bazaar game(buying low/selling high). I farm items/cash for my stuff. And have gone from as low as 20k to 150k in a week and then back down to 40k. And to question why someone needs to sell 300k items? Well thats their own choice and who the hell knows but why even care? Sounds to me like your both jealous and lazy. Jealous fo those with mone and too lazy to work at getting it yourself.
Quote from: Elyias Steelfang
Did I ever mention those zones? No I didnt because to be honest they suck for making cash. But looks like you fall into the cookie cutter method of trying to make cash.
Apparently my gigantic brain has failed to save me.
QuoteHere is a hint, try exploring on your own. Do some actual research and not expect everything to be handed to you. One of the best money zones I go to I found quite by accident. But on a good night can avg 2k+ an hour and depending on drops avg can get as high as 5-6k per hour.
I am in awe of your leetness.
QuoteNow am I going to tell you where? Um no. Go find it yourself or you can just continue to whine about how unfair and unjust things are when its not being handed to you on a silver platter.
Yes, sir.
QuoteI have NEVER played the bazaar game(buying low/selling high). I farm items/cash for my stuff. And have gone from as low as 20k to 150k in a week and then back down to 40k. And to question why someone needs to sell 300k items? Well thats their own choice and who the hell knows but why even care? Sounds to me like your both jealous and lazy. Jealous fo those with mone and too lazy to work at getting it yourself.
Right you are, sir, I'm on EQ welfare. Shine your boots for a silver?
:P
Well i would be happy to have 175K for a 8K item,but in a different way would be mad cause that guy screws over so many people