I blink on a raid, or forget to watch him for a split second, and he's gone. Dead. Poof. And when i do watch him, i cant even mash pet aa heal fast enough which can crit for 60k+ (why is beyond me, warder doesnt have that hp wish it did).
It's dps is pathetic. With em6 is still retarded, even with max aas.
Meanwhile my non raiding mage with em2 void slot 3 aug is doing 100% better both in survivability and dps. my warder is an embarasment as a raiding bst. Pretty soon, when the next expansion comes out, these pet problems will just get worse and worse. Already I can't use him on raids (korafax), he now just sits beside me while i use discs off him becuse he is retardely linked to my dps abilities, yet can't even survive a round of ae.
Some pet help would ne nice. This is retarded.
2008 called, it wants its post back.
j/k, I totally agree with you btw.
I only reposted once again becuse the issue wasn't resolved and is getting ignored. An em2 mage pet without aas should not be out doing my pet in every regard as a 3L= max pet aa, RAIDING, beaslord.
Totally agree on this, what beast wouldn't? the sad thing is, only few other classes (surprisingly most mages I know of) think the same about our issue with our warders... the most common comment I hear when I speak about this issue tends to be "heck you bsts are already doing a lot of dps of your own and got versatilty, if your warder did too much dps you'd bee too powerfull".
I suppose old thoughts never go away for balance issues... I know bsts can dish out some nice dps nowaday, im group lowish-raid geared with decent aa count (2kish) and can do like 3k-3.4k dps using all discs and tools in me hands and if im lucky to be grouped with shm or bard... and my pet is doing LESS OR SIMILAR dps (with T5 chest proc, epic 2.0 proc and fully raid buffed) than a lame wepon proc! (see FSPF) if this isn't a joke then is because Devs want our warders to be a virtual joke...
I think survivability could be looked at and maybe scaling properly yes. DPS on it could be upped a bit and our dps not being tied to the pet. So far in SoD I haven't found that pet survivability to be too much of an issue, can get through most of the events in SoD with not too much attention.
I think other people in my guild are surprised when I offer AA advice that normally leaves pet aa's at the end of the list of things to focus on. It would be nice to be able to pet tank / solo next expansion to be a semi possible route for doing tougher stuff. Mage pets have been able to tank most content since SoF, it would be nice for us to be similar with the superior healing we should have when it comes to pets.
Either beef pets up a bit or give me the option to be a monk....:D
Our personal dps may be meh find i'd guess, not thrilled with it, but out pet dps is in the toilet along with the entire pet itself. It's supposed to be a counter part to us, yet its not equal or self supporting at all. Its not a companion in any regards of the word, its a weakarsed liability.
Quote from: Panthur on June 24, 2009, 12:40:21 PM
i cant even mash pet aa heal fast enough which can crit for 60k+ (why is beyond me, warder doesnt have that hp wish it did).
Heal amount apparently is calculated with a recast consideration. As the pet aa heal has a "long" recast heal amout adds a loot of healing to it. That resulted in the big numbers. It was nerfed inbetween afaik.
Warder Point of View:
Air pet has:
+ 50% more blocking
a parry skill
+ 100% more spell/melee blocks on its proc prism skin
+ 10% hp
Mage Summoned gear innately
Air Pet point of view:
Bst pet has:
- 33% blocking skill
- 100% parry skill
- 50% spell/melee block on prism skin
- 9%(?) HP
No innate mage gear
The question is... are necro pets dying on these same encounters? Are other beastlord pets dying as well?
We are much more akin to a necro pet than a mage pet.
Mage pets are above all other pets in every category except HP and AC, where fire and water are lacking, and air is very close to necro which has the highest except earth.
I'm still working on getting my mage up to a level where he can solo Tosk named, but he's very close with air at T2~ gear with 81/750(note the T4 geared beastlord dies around 85% mob life with 3700aa). After he can, i'll level for the water pet and give that a shot. I don't anticipate the water pet dying at this time. My merc healer already knows the warder is weak apparently... he won't even heal it hardly at all :) However I'm trying to get that straightened out.
What you basically have, if you are truely doing everything correctly to keep the pet alive...
is a breaking point for expecting a pet to survive on raids.
If the beastlord warder is below that breaking point, then necro, enchanter, shadow knight, and shaman pets should all be dying as well. The only pet that should be able to be living are the water, air, and earth pets from the magician. (I hope you're not comparing your pet to fire(wizard) pets which won't melee unless forced.
Right now the breaking point is X...
Beast are below X, as is every other pet, if they are still dying with everything done to keep them alive
Mages are above X.
It's that simple. On paper the gap isn't "huge", it's just "large"... but in raiding if they are dying... well the difference between pet and no pet...
Quote from: Vidyne on June 24, 2009, 04:28:23 PM
The question is... are necro pets dying on these same encounters? Are other beastlord pets dying as well?
They probably aren't using pets since it means at least 1 spell slot taken up by a non DoT spell, and too much time spent watching pet and not their DoT progress :P
Most necros that I know don't use pets on raids at all.
overall tanking damage(inc dmg)
Earth
Air
Water
Fire
Warder
Nec
All others
overall DPS
Water
Air
Fire(higher on some encounters, especially if low flurry/crit)
Earth
< SoF mag pets are also higher than warder
Warder full AAed
SK pet
Enc pet
Nec full AAed
Warder no AAed
Nec no AAed
Shm pet
AC
Earth
Air/Nec/Bst
Water
Fire
All others
HP(nec/bst/air only 2-300hp diff)
Earth
Nec
Bst
Air
Water
Fire
All others
I believe that's how it goes.
I'm with Maylian, I think there is room for improvement but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be. If your pets chain die in Korafax raids you need to do one of two things
1) Stop letting him plow enrage
2) Get new strats, because none of those events are AE/Wild Ramp intensive to the point that a warder won't stay alive with fortify companion+rare promised or mend companion.
Sod is very pet friendly in my experience, there aren't many events at all where our warder's are in much danger.
Quote from: Hzath on June 24, 2009, 07:17:02 PM
I'm with Maylian, I think there is room for improvement but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be. If your pets chain die in Korafax raids you need to do one of two things
1) Stop letting him plow enrage
2) Get new strats, because none of those events are AE/Wild Ramp intensive to the point that a warder won't stay alive with fortify companion+rare promised or mend companion.
Sod is very pet friendly in my experience, there aren't many events at all where our warder's are in much danger.
/nods, I rarely lost my pet, even in MMM and Crystallos and still gave our monks a run on dps >.<
My pet lives just fine just keep the pet rune on him and he will live threw most every fight except venomlord can be a pain sometimes if healer cures on accident or something! And FYI make sure the warder is bufffed and get him pet toys and he should stay alive alll night!
Quote from: Codak on June 24, 2009, 08:02:42 PM
My pet lives just fine just keep the pet rune on him and he will live threw most every fight except venomlord can be a pain sometimes if healer cures on accident or something! And FYI make sure the warder is bufffed and get him pet toys and he should stay alive alll night!
Haven't used pet rune since Lethar / TSS dragons and its still cake. We just come down hard on any healer slack enough to cure.
I have to agree, I don't even use pet heal anymore(the spell) mainly because the cast time is too long vs using Promised Restoration, Replenish Companion and Companions Blessing I normally keep the same pet through MMM, Crystallos or any of the SoD raids we are doing atm, in addition to any group heals which he gets to partake of from whatever healer I have in my group...unless of course I die which happens more than my up dieing sadly :oops:
Think there's one raid I'll load up our 81 heal on: tower n-1 (OMM), since the AMV DT lands on pets too.
Other'n that, I'll use promised or restoration or the AA hot.
The real issue here is although yes it is possible to keep the pet alive, it can be a lot of work. With our pets tied so closely to our dps disc, clickies ect.. it would be nice to see them have a little better edge, not sure why they dont get any parry abilities that mages get... Nothing is more annoying then raid leader calling full burn and pet dieing before i get my disc off... Maybe it shouldnt happen but sometimes it does and that sucks!
I haven't had any issues keeping my warder alive on raids. We've been farming tier 1 SoD and just started raiding Crystallos recently. I can only think of a few times when my warder died and I did not. All but one because I didn't not back off during enrage, the only other was at the end of MMM the raid assist targeted a buzzkill hiding behind something across the room and no one else engaged before it ate kitty.
It used to be more of a problem before great pet hold when an AE might send all the poorly controlled pets off to die during a pull, but not any more. Am I doing anything really that different from people having problems? Is it just the encounters are so different tier 3 SoD and above? Not sure, but even back in anguish I rarely lost a warder to Ture.
Lore-wise it makes sense that our dps discs are tied to our warders. Sometimes that holds us back on dps parses if we inattentively let our warders die, but it's not that bad. Would I like to see them tank better? Sure. Should they dish out more dps? Definitely, especially since increasing our dps significantly each expansion requires looting weapons while mages get probably 90% of their dps as soon as they can level up and mem the spells.
Quote from: Catnip_Inny on June 25, 2009, 05:54:43 PM
The real issue here is although yes it is possible to keep the pet alive, it can be a lot of work. With our pets tied so closely to our dps disc, clickies ect.. it would be nice to see them have a little better edge, not sure why they dont get any parry abilities that mages get... Nothing is more annoying then raid leader calling full burn and pet dieing before i get my disc off... Maybe it shouldnt happen but sometimes it does and that sucks!
I had the problem of keeping my pet alive in Korafax when I first started raiding it. the change came when I started to learn the events the Trash mobs are no longer safe to just send pet in. you need to know what side of the mobs to keep them on and call your pet off when it in the wrong spot. when my pets gets to 1/3 Hp I hit pet back and let him heal up and I not seen him die in a long time other then tank moves the named and ramp gets him. Also some of the Named have DS that our pets just get eaten up on. But I agree the pet is no more a hit attack and forget about him you now have to adapt to the changes and move on. Bst have for a long time been one of the simplest classes to learn how to play they are now taking more skill to play and I see nothing wrong.
if your having that much troble with your pet that your not using him and want him to live so you can use your discs then maybe it time to bring out a familiar and not use your pet but for me my pet means lot and I do what it takes to keep him alive
yeah its not often my pet dies but it does suck if and when it does :( i have to keep my lvl 50? disc up just incase pet dies bite it lol... and not being able to use my 4 clickies sucks too... i have pet AA heal maxed, and fort compantion maxed as well as all the pet AA's to go with them :)
oh yeah dieing mid fight and battle rez'd in sucks too :) no mana to get pet uip and use the disc's or clickies :)
/waves at mazame
Might be a way to help the pet survive?
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=19758&source=Live
that proc looks to be too good to be true, let it be true hehe
I like the effects but that whole doing 19k damage and reducing agro by 19k/tick thing there has to be a misprint unless I'm not reading it right.
the details definitely don't match the description.. something new & different for lucy and everquest /eyeroll
Looks like an interesting possibility there from clicking through.
I have heard rumors that clerics would get some spells that allow them to dps while also helaing, I suspect this may be one of them.
I haven't heard anything about their plans for beastlords, but Kumbaja's lists a new 83 spell called Spirit of Kuris. The only reason I can think of that they might give us two warder spells at the same level is if they offer a choice a capabilities. Maybe one is a tougher tank and the other more fragile but higher dps. Pure spectulation on my part.