Swiped from the EQLive Veteran's Forums.
This thread has, surprise, surprise, degenerated into crap. Let's try to get a short list of some good reasonable changes and submit them to Prathun through 'better' channels.
For reference, here's the shammy spell list from Lucy:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spelllist.html?classes=SHM&source=Live (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spelllist.html?classes=SHM&source=Live)
Monkey list:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spelllist.html?classes=MNK&source=Live (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spelllist.html?classes=MNK&source=Live)
1 - Talisman of Celerity Easy upgrade, Convenience issue
2 - Cripple http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1592&source=Live (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1592&source=Live) This would be a plenty sufficient upgrade for SoF, imo. (see The List thread for what I'm talking about)
3 - Levitation http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2894&source=Live (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2894&source=Live) Easy upgrade, convenience issue (no reagent).
Longshots:
Remove Curse (doubt we'd get RGC)
Pure Blood
HoT line - Quiescence at 80 wouldn't be horribly overpowering....might be able to make a case for it.
Might be nice:
Spirit of Scale http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1554&source=Live (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1554&source=Live)
I don't see any realistic possibilities from the monk list.
Perhaps the monk AA "Purify Body"?
Perhaps the equivalent of the level 35 monk disc: Ton Po's Defense (Increase chance to block 100% for 3 ticks).
Our block skill isn't as high as monks, but we are the only classes that get block at all, so it makes sense. And a second defense disc would be useful.
I agree with Nusa - would be nice to have a scond defensive disc - skill
KitKat
I'd personally like to see whatever the group shrink is (tiny terror?). It's annoying to single-shrink people on raids and I can't see shammies losing groups over this.
Is there any chance of group sow (bih li or however it is spelled)?
Shaman levels in brackets
Talisman of celerity(64)
Blood of Nadox (52)
Focus of soul (62) or Focus of Seventh(65)
Introduction of HoT spells throughout.
Paralying earth (56)
Disinfecting Aura (52)
Definitely agree on Blood of Nadox, RGC & Quiesence(/Breath of Trushar, or maybe even Spiritual Serenity (weaker than the best hot pallies have atm , so us getting that at 75-80 shouldnt be too much).....
One thing on my personal "love to have" list= Canni ;)
from the monk side: Flying Kick! (I doubt we'd get it, but still would be a nice replacement for kick)
edit: /agree on Incapacitate upgrade!
Talisman of Celerity - Seems like a natural progression for us, not overpowering but useful. Plus it kind of irks me that bottled haste is better.
Cripple - could be useful, I really don't care either way
Levitate - be nice, not earth shattering, and if its a choice between this and another spell....
Spirit Veil - set duration invis self only, PLEASE
Potameid Salve - yes its a ranger spell, but we have had similar heals to them for quite a while, its not earth shattering but it does have a cure curse component to it. I don't really want this spell, just something similar attached to our next heal.
I have no interest in Spirit Scale personally.
the level 61 spirt of panther line type spell, self proc, easy to add to us, and really wouldnt be out of line
I don't really care much for group shrink. Single cast takes very little mana - and even if it sucks to cast most ppl have minimizers and other selfshrink items.
Group Haste I would like but not an "urgent one - just nice to hav and it better be a tad better then what we have now lol*
Spirit Veil - fixed invis would rock - even if it's in AA form like the shm. - 9 or 12 AA I would buy it
A Curse cure - awesome - don't care if it comes as a spell or in a new heal like rangers.
Fero that actually worked other then to boost resists - cause that is the only reason I use it these days.
Single target slow - take pet proc slow away.. dump it.. I hate it and don't use it.
Upgrade to Growl maybe?
KitKat
Quote from: Nusa on August 05, 2007, 07:22:53 PM
Perhaps the monk AA "Purify Body"?
This being Prathun, I doubt he's interested in AAs. Not his ballgame.
QuotePerhaps the equivalent of the level 35 monk disc: Ton Po's Defense (Increase chance to block 100% for 3 ticks).
Our block skill isn't as high as monks, but we are the only classes that get block at all, so it makes sense. And a second defense disc would be useful.
Unless I'm misreading that, Ton Po's Defense will simply double our block success rate for 18 seconds. Not a huge impact from what I can see, but I'm not sure what our total block rate is. Does anybody have a figure? Also, what's the reuse time on that? I'm guessing it's much much higher than our current def. disc.
QuoteParalying earth (56)
Won't happen.
QuoteDisinfecting Aura (52)
QuotePotameiad Salve
I mentioned Pure Blood (Basically Blood of Nadox, but clr/dru version...group of Dis. Aura), RC, etc,...and made a case for making a Beastlord version of the Ranger's Salve. I doubt he'll bite now, but we can hope for the best in beta.
Tiny Terror would be nice...I may have to PM him again to add that to my list. Same with Spirit Veil, though they've never responded well to our requests for that iirc.
Quote from: Humlaine on August 05, 2007, 09:56:49 PM
the level 61 spirt of panther line type spell, self proc, easy to add to us, and really wouldnt be out of line
Unless I misread you, that would be an entirely new spell created, so I doubt he'd bite on that now as well...if ever.
Cure curse spell, a second def disc, fero changed to an aura sounds like a dang good start.
it would be a new spell for our class, but not one from the shaman line its from DoN
Quote from: Humlaine on August 05, 2007, 09:56:49 PM
the level 61 spirt of panther line type spell, self proc, easy to add to us, and really wouldnt be out of line
Bolded part - the shaman spell is not a self proc...it's a single target proc buff. That's what I got out of it, anyways.
its not hard to change it to self only, even if it is a single target its not a big deal , I wouldnt be casting it on anyone else but myself most likely
Group Slow (i think it's pretty much a given we will get this, but remember that this adds nothing but convenience)
Wish list:
Cripple
Updraded disease cure
AoE Slow
Panther lite or Group melee disc
Upgraded Protective Spirit Disc
Quote from: Bumkus on August 06, 2007, 03:56:22 AM
Upgraded Protective Spirit Disc
Not what Prathun's looking for, and not something that'll be even potentially addressed until beta's underway, I'd wager. I'm curious what exactly you're looking for though...
Current:
Protective Spirit Discipline
Slot Description
1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 90%
Recast Time: 234
Duration: 2 ticks
What upgrade are you thinking of?
I started with a list of all shammy spells higher than level 50 and eliminated the following:
avatar - our equivalent is fero
root - we don't get roots
malo - we dont get debuffs
agi buffs - we don't get agi buffs *shrug*
heals - we get our own
slows - we get our own
focus - we get our own
pets - we get our own
nukes - we get our own
dots - we get our own
shaman specific spells (canni, panther among others)
which leaves (including ones we already have for reference):
Level: 50 (bst 59)
Talisman of Jasinth SHM/50 BST/63
1: Increase Disease Resist by 45
Level: 51 (bst 60)
Everlasting Breath DRU/50 SHM/51 ENC/51
1: Water Breathing(1)
Levitation DRU/50 SHM/51 WIZ/50 ENC/51
3: Levitate(1)
Level: 52 (bst 61)
Regrowth RNG/64 DRU/54 SHM/52 BST/64
1: Increase Hitpoints by 20 per tick
Primal Essence SHM/52
3: Increase STA by 20
5: Increase AGI by 20
6: Increase STR by 20
7: Increase DEX by 20
Disinfecting Aura SHM/52
1: Decrease Poison Counter by 10
2: Decrease Poison Counter by 10
3: Decrease Disease Counter by 10
4: Decrease Disease Counter by 10
Blood of Nadox SHM/52
1: Decrease Poison Counter by 9
2: Decrease Poison Counter by 9
3: Decrease Disease Counter by 9
4: Decrease Disease Counter by 9
Level: 53 (bst 62)
Talisman of Shadoo SHM/53 BST/61
2: Increase Poison Resist by 45
Cripple SHM/53 ENC/53
1: Decrease DEX by 58 (L53) to 80 (L75)
2: Decrease AGI by 68 (L53) to 90 (L75)
3: Decrease STR by 68 (L53) to 90 (L75)
4: Decrease AC by 30 (L53) to 37 (L75)
Level: 54 (bst 63)
Shroud of the Spirits SHM/54
4: Increase AC by 26 (L54) to 30 (L65)
Riotous Health SHM/54
1: Increase STA by 50
Remove Greater Curse CLR/54 PAL/60 DRU/54 SHM/54
1: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
2: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
3: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
4: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
5: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
Level: 55 (bst 64)
Chloroblast RNG/62 DRU/55 SHM/55 BST/62
1: Increase Hitpoints by 994 (L55) to 1044 (L60)
Annul Magic CLR/53 RNG/61 DRU/55 SHM/55 NEC/53 WIZ/53 MAG/53 BST/61
1: Cancel Magic(9)
2: Cancel Magic(9)
Talisman of Kragg SHM/55 BST/62
1: Increase Max Hitpoints by 365 (L55) to 425 (L75)
2: Increase HP when cast by 365 (L55) to 425 (L75)
Level: 56 (bst 65)
Acumen SHM/56 BST/65
1: See Invisible(1)
2: Ultravision
Celerity SHM/56 ENC/39 BST/63
1: Increase Attack Speed by 47% (L39) to 50% (L44)
Regrowth of Dar Khura SHM/56
1: Increase Hitpoints by 20 per tick
Level: 57 (bst 66)
Talisman of the Brute SHM/57
1: Increase STA by 50
Maniacal Strength SHM/57
1: Increase STR by 68
Level: 58 (bst 67)
Talisman of the Rhino SHM/58
1: Increase STR by 68
Mortal Deftness SHM/58
1: Increase DEX by 60
Talisman of Epuration SHM/58
1: Increase Disease Resist by 55
2: Increase Poison Resist by 55
Level: 59 (bst 68)
Talisman of the Raptor SHM/59
1: Increase DEX by 60
Voice of the Berserker SHM/59
3: Increase AC by 24
5: Increase AGI by 74 (L59) to 90 (L75)
6: Increase STR by 84 (L59) to 100 (L75)
7: Increase DEX by 74 (L59) to 90 (L75)
Level: 60 (bst 69)
Torpor SHM/60
1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 300 per tick
3: Decrease Movement by 100%
11: Decrease Attack Speed by 30%
Level: 61 (bst 70)
Replenishment DRU/61 SHM/61
1: Increase Hitpoints by 40 per tick
Level: 62 (bst 71)
Ancestral Guard SHM/62
4: Increase AC by 36
Endurance of the Boar SHM/62
1: Increase STA by 60
Talisman of the Tribunal SHM/62
1: Increase Disease Resist by 65
2: Increase Poison Resist by 65
Level: 63 (bst 72)
Swift Like the Wind SHM/63 ENC/47
1: Increase Attack Speed by 60%
Strength of the Diaku SHM/63
5: Increase STR by 35
6: Increase DEX by 28
Talisman of the Boar SHM/63
1: Increase STA by 60
Blessing of Replenishment DRU/63 SHM/63
1: Increase Hitpoints by 40 per tick
Level: 64 (bst 73)
Talisman of Celerity SHM/64
1: Increase Attack Speed by 60%
Talisman of the Diaku SHM/64
5: Increase STR by 45
6: Increase DEX by 35
Tiny Terror SHM/64
1: Decrease Player Size by 34%
Level: 65 (bst 74)
Quiescence SHM/65
1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 420 per tick
Breath of Trushar SHM/65
1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 630 per tick
Level: 66 (bst 75)
Spirit of Sense SHM/66
1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 7%
Spirit of Perseverance SHM/66
1: Increase Hitpoints by 60 per tick
Crippling Spasm SHM/66
1: Decrease DEX by 100
2: Decrease AGI by 100
3: Decrease STR by 100
4: Decrease AC by 39
Level: 67 (bst 76)
Ancestral Bulwark SHM/67
4: Increase AC by 46
Spirit Veil SHM/67
1: Invisibility
Spirit of Might SHM/67
7: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 5%
Level: 68 (bst 77)
Spirit of Fortitude SHM/68
1: Increase STA by 75
12: Increase Sta Cap by 40
Talisman of Sense SHM/68
1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 7%
Level: 69 (bst 78)
Talisman of Fortitude SHM/69
1: Increase STA by 75
12: Increase Sta Cap by 40
Talisman of Perseverance SHM/69
1: Increase Hitpoints by 60 per tick
Pure Spirit SHM/69
1: Remove Detrimental(6)
Level: 70 (bst 79)
Talisman of Might SHM/70
7: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 5%
Spiritual Serenity SHM/70
1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 820 per tick
Ghost of Renewal SHM/70
1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 630 per tick
Level: 71 (bst 80)
Talisman of Persistence SHM/71
1: Increase STA by 83
2: Increase Endurance Pool by 480
12: Increase Sta Cap by 50
Preternatural Foresight SHM/71
1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 8%
6: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/100/0)
Spirit of the Stoic One SHM/71
1: Increase Hitpoints by 72 per tick
Level: 72 (bst 80?)
Cure Corruption PAL/75 DRU/71 SHM/72
1: Unknown #369 (100/-4/4)
Of course this means shamans need to get something thats better in some way than tribunal and an upgraded cripple somewhere between levels ~70 and 80
Please list the spell and why you think you as a hybrid should get a spell one of your parent classes has., this is not for upgrades of our current spells but a spell that we dont have that one of our two parent classes have, this is just a reminder
thats exactly what i did?
the post wasnt directed at you hakaaba, it was recommended by another CC if this was posted on class site to try and make sure that part was there, you did everything correct
First we need an answer from the devs, are we a utility class or dps class? Seems they are as confused about it as much as we are.
After that decision has been made, give us the spells shammies have in whichever discipline at around 10 levels above where shammies get them.
Quote from: Grbage on August 06, 2007, 05:34:22 PM
First we need an answer from the devs, are we a utility class or dps class? Seems they are as confused about it as much as we are.
After that decision has been made, give us the spells shammies have in whichever discipline at around 10 levels above where shammies get them.
A - won't happen
B - won't happen like that.
Devs have never answered our request about their 'vision' for us...no matter how wonderful and useful that would be. I'm thinking they're just feeling burned by all the Legolas ranger fanbois, and Battleblade's spittle that he's always posting on the eqlive forums.
B - we don't want that to happen. Shammy spells are tuned around shaman's gigantic mana regen, longer cast times on most because they're not meleeing, etc,.... Also, (I'm thinking of this mostly dps-based, fyi), shammy nukes are mostly not worth casting, rains have usability issues, sting of the queen isn't wildly hot anymore, dots have resist issues, and aren't useful in xp groups.
I see this as an opportunity to get a few useful spells added w/o a whole lot of griping. This won't be any game changing wild re-envisionment. This is Prathun willing to toss us a slight bone, and keep the 'hybrid' theory alive.
So, no...we're not going to get group HoTs, doubtful we'll have any chances to get HoTs at all, won't get panther, won't get the nice shammy (omens+) buffs w/ all the nice mods on them, etc, etc,...
This isn't a re-envisionment, or a large overhaul. This is simply a shot at getting some convenience added, or a small upgrade to a forgotten spell line.
Added Talisman of Epuration/Tribunal, Spirit Veil, and Tiny terror to my PMs to prathun.
Group shrink is a complete waste imho and I personally wouldn't even purchase the spell since i don't even currently mem our single target shrink i use the Wild Lord's Sandals and shrink people that way. So needless to say that spell is of little use or want from me personally.
Spirit veil I think was something they talked about in TSS but got dropped So this would be a major convince spell and something I would use definitely.
De buff Spell like a cripple would be great been long over due for a upgrade. As for a cold De buff I am all for it to many times we are stuck on cold resistant mobs and if there is a lack of a druid around makes 90% of our nuke lines useless.
this is strictly a conversation about existing, lower level, shaman spells that we should get as a shaman hybrid since these types of spells have been completely neglected since PoP, so a cold debuff isnt really going to happen since we never got the malo line at all (intentionally as a balance issue).
Noone has mentioned the fact that we're overdue an upgraded long duration regen spell (feral vigor upgrade) which shammys have seen upgraded while we were neglected on that front. The same applies to invis, shrink, and cures, regardless of how useful each of these would be.
Not to mention the fact that the strength/dex buff line eventually becomes the Increase all skills damage modifier/ increase chance to avoid melee lines that we deserve a piece of (at one tier lower effectiveness than shammies at all times)
My thought is if the spell isnt going to be of use to us then why bother discussing it honestly this is about what our parent class has that would be a use to us shrink is a spell that would have no real use for us other then a convience and i would rather not have is all i am saying. As far as a cold debuff shaman have malo line why not give us a debuff we would actually benefit from? The Shaman class is the debuffing / buffing class for the most part why shuoldnt we benefit from more debuffs that would be usful.
Quote from: hakaaba on August 07, 2007, 12:22:29 AM
Noone has mentioned the fact that we're overdue an upgraded long duration regen spell (feral vigor upgrade) which shammys have seen upgraded while we were neglected on that front.
I personally don't feel one is needed....and the developers are moving away from those as well, since they just don't stack up compared to mob DPS nowadays. The druids even had theirs removed from the game at 71-75, and it's not wildly missed. I personally would almost never cast a regen upgrade, and haven't cast my current one since Veksar was a hotzone and the regen could take care of a huge portion of the mob dps.
Quote from: Rilelil on August 07, 2007, 03:26:13 AM
My thought is if the spell isnt going to be of use to us then why bother discussing it honestly this is about what our parent class has that would be a use to us shrink is a spell that would have no real use for us other then a convience and i would rather not have is all i am saying. As far as a cold debuff shaman have malo line why not give us a debuff we would actually benefit from? The Shaman class is the debuffing / buffing class for the most part why shuoldnt we benefit from more debuffs that would be usful.
Unless I totally misunderstand what Prathun is looking for, he is looking for a list of already existing spells that should be given to the redheaded hybrid stepkids. Not something new, not something requiring creation of new spells.
If you're serious about proposing a cold debuff spell for Beastlords this next expansion, start a new thread for it.
thats nonsense. solo efficiency is ALL about maximizing efficiency and regen adds up to alot of passive healing. Sure 70 hp/tick doesnt sound like much against mobs hitting for 1500 but it adds up to a free cast of our heal over the duration of a short fight.
If youre not casting regen when you haste yourself while you solo, youre throwing away some of your efficiency.
Quote from: hakaaba on August 07, 2007, 03:34:58 AM
thats nonsense. solo efficiency is ALL about maximizing efficiency and regen adds up to alot of passive healing. Sure 70 hp/tick doesnt sound like much against mobs hitting for 1500 but it adds up to a free cast of our heal over the duration of a short fight.
If youre not casting regen when you haste yourself while you solo, youre throwing away some of your efficiency.
You are indeed right, but ooc regen has thrown efficiency out the window in many cases, and changed much of how I solo. I'm no longer trying to fight nonstop for 30+ minutes at a stretch, and the huge rate of ooc regen simply dwarfs what a regen spell does. One more tick in ooc regen doesn't bother me much as I am expecting to med up nowadays.
I'm certainly not going to poo poo it, but wouldn't cry if it doesn't get upgraded for SoF...esp. since group encounter difficulty is supposed to skyrocket with this expansion.
Quote from: Khauruk on August 06, 2007, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: Nusa on August 05, 2007, 07:22:53 PM
Perhaps the equivalent of the level 35 monk disc: Ton Po's Defense (Increase chance to block 100% for 3 ticks).
Our block skill isn't as high as monks, but we are the only classes that get block at all, so it makes sense. And a second defense disc would be useful.
Unless I'm misreading that, Ton Po's Defense will simply double our block success rate for 18 seconds. Not a huge impact from what I can see, but I'm not sure what our total block rate is. Does anybody have a figure? Also, what's the reuse time on that? I'm guessing it's much much higher than our current def. disc.
I don't know what the reuse time is, but it's on timer 9, which means it doesn't conflict with anything we currently have. As for block, it's at least twice as powerful as dodge or parry. I don't know about you, but I noticed when I got an "Improved Block III"(24%) worn item. I suspect I'd notice another 100% even more.
But my real point is it meets the requirements of the question: 1) Existing ability 2) Appropriate for our class 3) Not too high a level on the parent class. And it's a whole lot more than, "I don't see anything we want from monks." If I had it, I'd use it.
And the reason I didn't suggest the other basic monk defensives is that they are all on the same timer with longer reuse times. We've already got one of the best of those (MNK Stonestance = BST Protective Spirit). I suppose we could as for the upgrade to that (MNK Earthwalk, same thing plus stun resistance).
Another possibility would be the MNK Planeswalk Discipline (+125% movement for 3 ticks), but that's not a biggie either.
I'm not silly enough to ask for any of the pacify disciplines....we'd never get those.
Things I'd like to see as spells that Beastlords NEED currently because we're lacking...
Upgrade Protective Spirit Disc - /agree...make it from 90 to 100% and make it 18 seconds instead of 12? lol.
Flying Kick - /drooooll....a long ago I dreamed of this...would love it..
Tail Rake - could be our new Rake? lolol or an additional rake with our tails?...meow? that way we got two rakes to choose from, but make this one lower aggro...?
Talisman of Celerity - group haste please..belive it or not its been needed at raids at one time where theres no shaman or enchanters.
Upgraded Single Target Haste
Spirit Veil - set duration invis self only, PLEASE GOD ALMIGHTY
Potameid Salve - a ranger spell...call it something else if you want but WE NEED IT. Its about damn time that I can cure a freaking poison/disease/curse on myself and others in one spell, plus a heal.
Cure Corruption OR Chant of the Napaea OR BOTH!!!! These are new cures that are NEEDED BADLY, and would give beastlords UTILITY at raids once again, another possbility is to create a NEW SPELL that is a combination of Potameid Salve + Cure Corruption and be a heal+poison/disease/curse/corruption cure in one spell. Beastlords need something of high utility for curing and we've needed it for a long time...this would be the spell I would fight for alot...
Talisman of the Tribunal - this would upgrade and eliminate the use for Jasinth and Shadoo..and yes its sometimes still used..
Levitate - would be nice but thats why I went and got a Fabled Pegasus Cloak FTW...so i can trade this spell for something more useful..still it wouldn't hurt
Cripple - don't care for it...beastlords are never asked to debuff anything...why start now? lol..
Spirit of Scale - totally useless, pass.
and finally I disagree ALOT with AE SLOW lololol...they never ask bsts to slow anything..not sure if its a good idea to give us even MORE aggro when we already have issues there and a dead bst is a zero dps beast.
Is it a spell or aa that cures mala/malo? With /ooc regen that is something that would be very useful.
The radiant cure aa's (priests+pally's) will cure Mala/Maloxxx as they have a 'Remove Detrimental' chance. Shaman spell 'Pure Spirit' also can remove them.
Quote from: Khauruk on August 06, 2007, 04:01:12 AM
Quote from: Bumkus on August 06, 2007, 03:56:22 AM
Upgraded Protective Spirit Disc
Not what Prathun's looking for, and not something that'll be even potentially addressed until beta's underway, I'd wager. I'm curious what exactly you're looking for though...
Current:
Protective Spirit Discipline
Slot Description
1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 90%
Recast Time: 234
Duration: 2 ticks
What upgrade are you thinking of?
I listed Prot Disc trying to think if our other parent class had something to help with the melee side of things. If Prathun is only looking at spells, then you're right, this is outside the scope of this topic.
Prot Discs has not really scaled with mob DPS. It is a great disc, don't get me wrong, but you can still take in excess of 1K damage per round with Protective running, so you don't want to hold off to pop this when low on health.
This is really our only "get out of jail free" card, but I use it more for efficiency than for emergency.
Ok. I'm gonna try to be more productive and list real spells I'd like
Disinfecting Aura - SHM level 52. (For the upgraded Poison cure and convenience factor)
Cripple - SHM level 53 (Anything that reduces mob DPS = Good)
Remove Greater Curse - SHM level 54 (Oh heck, I could live without this one)
Tigir's Insects - SHM level 58 (After being sneaky and upgrading our slow through a Pet Proc, we are due an AoE Slow spell.)
Talisman of Celerity - SHM level 64 (but if this is the only upgrage we get after this little excercise, I'll be pissed.)
Ancestral Guard - SHM level 61 (our only AC buff adds only 10ac, or is it 13?)
Spirit of Puma (50), Jaguar (57), Leapard (61) - And I'd trade Paragon for Talisman of the Panther
I would also like to see upgraded DoTs, but I believe I am in minority. Throw in Canni I, II, III or IV, and it would tend to a lot of our soloing woes.
Copied from my EQLive post:
Beastlords from shaman spells i would not mind seeing:
Combo Poi/Dis resist spell (we have the separate ones already, would be nice to condense them)
Better Poison cure spell (even if only single target, keeping myself cured of a DoT, is one less cure that other priests have to cast)
Minor Curse cure spell (to get rid of those lingering curses that stick around after a battle is over)
Minor Malo (Cause -20 MR is not a good resist check for slow, i should almost just use my 3.5 minute duration 0 MR check slow, and on some raid turned group mobs, i do!)
Stat Buffs (cause Infusion of Spirits, is so Planes of power era)
Group Haste / real duration haste, as much as i love my best slow, being a level 39 enchanter spell (and only being able to take hold on levels ~45+ mind you) it's time to get an upgrade... we've had Celerity since Planes of Power, and every one of our haste spells will not take hold on any lower level character thanks to the way spell levels work.
Beastlord 'spells' from monks:
Some new martial attack.. Kick is like... so level 5... 'Tiger Claw' would rock for vah shir ;p
A Runspeed Disc... 'cmon, cheetah anyone? this one is mostly for fun.
An FD skill, high endurance cost (1-2k) 'spirit of the possum' i know people cry 'oh it's going to be overpowered' but uh, if you stack on a high endurance cost... it won't be a replacement for monk/sk/necro FD, but will be a way for beastlords to get rid of agro in raids and otherwise hide from those big nasties that want to eat you when your Level 49 invisibility drops (note: enchanters get the exact same invis spell at level 4) on the way to various encounters.
As a mostly soloing baby beastlord, here are some hand me down spells I would like to see.
Malo line[ /b] Even the first rank or two of this line would be helpful I think. Having light blue mobs resist everything I throw at them is annoying to say the least. I seriously doubt anyone would go 'Hey look beasties get malo now, let's get the beastie lfging instead of the shaman.' (Not saying stuff like that doesn't happen, but I don't believe it would be because of the malo line.)
Slow line Getting an upgrade to drowsy before level 50 would be nice. Maybe getting walking sleep at 35 or 40 wouldn't be too over powering and it would still leave several levels between it and Sha's Lethargy. I do realize that Sha's has a fixed slow percentage, and walking sleep scales; however, walking sleep has a shorter duration so this would simply give level 50 plus beastlords a choice.
Haste line This is merely a wish, but I would like to see us at least get Quickness. I do know that potions are better fairly early on, but this would still give younger beastlords an option for when they either run out of or can't afford haste potions.
Canni line This is almost certainly wishful thinking, but I think even just getting Canni I would be nice. It may not be huge mana regen but every little bit helps.
QuoteCripple - don't care for it...beastlords are never asked to debuff anything...why start now? lol..
I have in fact been asked to cripple mobs. It's been a
LONG time. (25 lvls or so) but I'd like to start bringing more to the table than just DPS and Fero/Vim for the Monk in my guild.
QuoteThe radiant cure aa's (priests+pally's) will cure Mala/Maloxxx as they have a 'Remove Detrimental' chance. Shaman spell 'Pure Spirit' also can remove them.
Last I checked we were a priest hybrid..... we do get the priest "Archtype" AA's. Pally's and Shammy's got the AA, so why don't we? I mention Pally's because they are a hybrid as well with the Priest Archtype!
QuoteRemove Greater Curse - SHM level 54 (Oh heck, I could live without this one)
I'd be happy with Remove Curse! I'd love Greater.
cripple is another one of the most underrated abilities in the game (along with regen)
Quote from: hakaaba on August 08, 2007, 02:23:46 AM
cripple is another one of the most underrated abilities in the game (along with regen)
Enchanters were going to do a series of parses for cripple spells, to try and quantify the effects on proccing mobs (chaos claws, etc,....), flurry rate, ramp etc,.... I heard the results were surprisingly strong, but I never saw the parses. Does anybody have a link to the enc class site so I can take a look?
Quote from: hakaaba on August 08, 2007, 02:23:46 AM
cripple is another one of the most underrated abilities in the game (along with regen)
I agree, also if you are looking for a niche for raiding beastlords this could be one.
Most classes buff and do a little debuff (and lets face it all have more useful buffs than us) beastlords could be a hybrid class that debuffs with a little buffing. I keep saying I would absolutely love a cripple upgrade with an attack debuff component in it as well.
Quote from: Khauruk on August 08, 2007, 02:27:45 AM
Quote from: hakaaba on August 08, 2007, 02:23:46 AM
cripple is another one of the most underrated abilities in the game (along with regen)
Enchanters were going to do a series of parses for cripple spells, to try and quantify the effects on proccing mobs (chaos claws, etc,....), flurry rate, ramp etc,.... I heard the results were surprisingly strong, but I never saw the parses. Does anybody have a link to the enc class site so I can take a look?
This is 2 threads on the spell line, not sure if parses are there or not as I havent read them yet.
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1591 (http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1591)
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=709&highlight= (http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=709&highlight=)
and one from the Shamans board
http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?t=3887&highlight=cripple (http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?t=3887&highlight=cripple)
Perhaps we should look into asking for the spell...Feralize?
Its a shammy spell that is a type of debuff....I don't think they use it too much or often...maybe we can benefit and use it more often than they do at raids/groups/soloing content?
Big thing about fearalize is it only works on a certian type of mob so really limits usfulness, but I like the idea of a more up to date cripple debuff for us since we haven't had one since mid 50's . and only thing really usful about it now is getting agro when needed.
Quoteand one from the Shamans board
http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?t=3887&highlight=cripple
That's decent, and up to date. It only tests one facet of the debuff though - the STR portion (so, the attack debuff portion).
Better discussion at: http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10240&highlight=cripple Yakk even chimes in on the statists side of it all (confidence level of the parses, etc,....)
A good test would be MPG 6 way, first vs. ukuns - they seem to proc chaos claws more than any other mob. Do a half hour or so crippled/not (our cripple won't work, sadly...no -dex portion) and count the number of attempted procs. Second would be against a lightning diodite dude...count the flurries (the -agi portion of the cripple line). I can do the first portion (not crippled)....though I don't know if my druid's mana will hold out that long...probably not. But, I can succour, med up, and reengage the same mob. I just need to try and find an enc/shm who'll come and cripple the mob for me for the second round.
Edit - the captcha on therunes.net defeated me! Guess I'll have to wait to register again and try to get something set up.
Meep.
IF we even get to have and Shaman tablescraps in form of spells.. WHY ask for something as useless as group shrink? I'm sorry personally think that would be a waste. Yeah you potentially have to cast shrink X2 on 6 ppl in the group so what? It takes hardly any mana - all it is, is inconvient. /shrug
There are so many things ppl can buy/farm/make that will shrink you. Most raiding guilds expect players to be able to selfshrink.
Malo, cripple, slow, panther are some of the most useful offensive spells shamans get.
We don't have a malo as a beastlord, which is a shame since MAYBE some of our dots/nukes/slow might actually have a bigger chance of landing if we did. I doubt we would get one since it's a pure mage/shm spell line.
Cripple-line is something we were given, but then I think they forgot we had it and didn't upgrade it for us. I only used it ( Incapacitate) before I got Bite of the Empress to hold agro. Incapacitate just sucks. An upgrade would be useful.
Slow - the biggest thing I would like to see upgraded really. 70 Sha's is ok, but most mobs conning DB and up just starts to laugh when I cast it. Even when grouped with shm/chanter I pre-slow with it. Take Steeltrap Jaw and toss it.. and give US a spell with same properties as that pet-proc ( except let it last more ticks) Or jsut give us a better slow.
Panterline is unique to the shamans, however I would like it.. even if they made it self only.
Canni - Not gonna happen and it shouldn't. We aren't shamans.
Cures - well we were giving some poison/disease cures (WAY late) - would be nice with a late Nadox cure. I understand if they don't want us to get a pure Remove Greater Curse cures, but it would be nice with just a remove curse.
Regen, well I don't really care about that one too much. I don't use Feral Guard unless some desperate necro ask for it, cause he can't get a decent regen anywhere else..... I don't know if I would use an upgrade either to be honest.
Haste upgrade ( group preferably) Would be nice, but again. I rarely even have the one we have now memmed. I rather hand whomever want haste a stack of hastepots. I might use group haste.
Invis - FIXED invis is another thing I would LOVE to see us get. Very USEFUL!
I don't know much about monk. I have a 53 level one so not much to compare too. However I would like to see beast get a new offensive and defensive disc. We didn't get a sinlge Disc in both TSS and TBS. I use Rake a lot and thought it was a decent disc, til I saw the DPS from some of the eqivilent monk disc.. then I just felt really gimp. I don't really see Beastlords getting a whole lot of their "Monk parents" -except we compete with monks for weapons and armor. So adding some "monkness" might be nice instead of a lot of buff type requests. I don't want to be a fourth rate shaman wannabie.
KitKat
Quote from: Kitathia on August 08, 2007, 04:16:04 PM
Canni - Not gonna happen and it shouldn't. We aren't shamans.
I agree and disagree. I agree we currently don't need canni but if they start giving us a bunch of shammy spells to cast we will end up needing it.
The mana cost of shaman spells are balanced around the ability to canni, making them a bit to expensive to use for us. That was the main reason I never used Incapacitate a lot at lower levels, it was more mana effecient for me to not cast it. By the time I had enough mana regen to cast it every mob it was only useful for agro.
True :)
However I doubt we will get a LOT of shaman spells. If we get any. I just hope that we get some that are useful, not just fluff to blow a little smoke up our beastie butts.
KitKat
Monk Discs...
Innerflame is their best overall offensive Disc, it is exactly the same as Bestial Fury.
Empathic Fury beats Innerflame by adding +100% to crit chance, and tags both master and pet.
The other discs they get are ones based around their special attack (scaledfist, heel of kanji) and only boost the attack rate or damage of those.
Defensive wise, you have Pro. Spirit and Impenetrable, with the same mitigation effect. the difference being monk disc has stun resistance and a 5-7 effect block recourse.
Monk combat skills compared to ours is ridiculous.
CSF rk. II = 3x Skill attack (300) to Rake = 3x Skill Attack (65)
So to fuel more discs from the monk 'parent' we'd need to get some special attacks.
to fuel upgrades would require sony to stop neglecting us which is tough to do, unless we make a lot of noise with a lot of stuff to back it up, so push for everything in beta, ya never know what you might end up with, but it's gotta be better than if you did nothing at all.
Quote from: TabarQuell on August 08, 2007, 05:06:02 PM
Innerflame is their best overall offensive Disc, it is exactly the same as Bestial Fury.
Except that it's not. Speedfocus is. There's also 0 chance of us getting a copy of this, and devs regret they ever created it (had no clue how powerful it'd become), and that it will never be upgraded.
Disclaimer - at lower gear levels, perhaps Innerflame is. But, in upper gear, Speedfocus blows it out of the water.
Disciplines - I doubt we'll get a second one in next expansion, especially if our utility is upgraded. Our dps is good atm, they won't upgrade it as far as I can see. I think the best we'll get is the possibility for more burst potential w/ a Bite upgrade, and Cold nukes following the same lines. Also w/ a possibility for DoTs to follow the Nature's Blazing Wrath paradigm (we would need to try hard for this, of course). With gear moving to 1000 mana, spells like this will be necessary just to dump mana in a reasonable amount of time.
Quoteya never know what you might end up with, but it's gotta be better than if you did nothing at all.
Not necessarily, as the monks found out with their Innerflame "upgrade" in TSS (iirc) beta
Hmm, had to read up on speedfocus, as i did not really have any knowledge on it.
Speedfocus increases monks attack speed by 25% before haste, stacking with all forms of haste, except berzerker warcry.
on an 18 delay weapon, this means a monk could swing (with max haste/overhaste) 5 times in 3 seconds with that one weapon (not taking into account any skills/AAs)
normally it would take a monk 4 seconds to make those swings, +25% dps for 30 seconds...
Innerflame givest +100% damage for the 30 seconds, with minimum hits being boosted by 4x.
I can't imagine that +25% DPS from extra attacks would match the +100% damage from Innerflame... maybe i'm missing something?
I dunno, it seems to me IF does more, but i play a beastlord first, and a monk only to pull with in distant second.
Quote from: Kitathia on August 08, 2007, 04:16:04 PM
Slow - the biggest thing I would like to see upgraded really. 70 Sha's is ok, but most mobs conning DB and up just starts to laugh when I cast it. Even when grouped with shm/chanter I pre-slow with it. Take Steeltrap Jaw and toss it.. and give US a spell with same properties as that pet-proc ( except let it last more ticks) Or jsut give us a better slow.
This isn't going to happen. Many people don't realize this, but chanters' slow is exactly the same resist mod as ours (Sha's legacy) and shaman's is only 30 more. Also, the percent slow is not going to get upgraded because they would then need to upgrade chanter/shaman slows' % and they are not willing to go above 75% slow for balance reasons, ever.
If steeltrap were a direct slow, we never would have gotten it since its the same % slow as a chanter slow with a HUGE resist mod (5x what a shaman gets)
Long math intensive post regarding overhaste, now-fixed-haste rounding, and how the hundred hands effect works: http://forums.monkly-business.net/viewtopic.php?t=15147
Also (more pertinent really):
http://forums.monkly-business.net/viewtopic.php?t=16871&highlight=speedfocus
http://forums.monkly-business.net/viewtopic.php?t=16405&highlight=speedfocus
Humlaine, have you done any PMs regarding this to Prathun?
The feeling I get in EQ forums is that Shamans don't want any of their spells extended to bsts. I get a sense that people would be willing to make a group version of our 50% haste, but that really doesn't advance our cause. Not when 50% haste is available in bazaar.
Would it advance our cause? No...but, it would be great to have. Not every spell needs to be groundbreaking, and to be honest, the chances of us getting a groundbreaking spell out of this are about nil. And yeah...almost all classes are jealous of "their" abilities/spells getting farmed out to anybody else.
I personally would not be satisfied if all we got was a group only haste. Sure other classes would like to keep all their advantages, but that doesn't mean we have to roll over and act all happy about it.
It's a bone that Prathuns' willing to toss us...I'll be happy if we get anything /shrug.
Quote from: Khauruk on August 09, 2007, 07:02:48 PM
It's a bone that Prathuns' willing to toss us...I'll be happy if we get anything /shrug.
bones are nice, but when you see others dining on fillets, it leaves you feeling a little empty.
I doubt that Rangers, SKs, or Paladins are going to get any fillets from this either.
agree. and is anyone else starting to get hungry? :lol:
I like the phrase you give a person a inch, they will try and take a mile, I dont know about you but If I am putting in a request for a spell its not gonna be a small spell its going for a good one that plays more then one role for our class.
/rant on
The real problem that I see honestly is that the developers themselves have problems deciding where to categorize the beastlord class, are we dps or are we utility, or are we a pet mage...ect They also have probelms trying to come up with new utilities for us to use at raids because they don't bother to try to make up brand new ones for us....so imo lack of creativity.
Imo I think the beastlord is a dps class, the perfect pet master, and a utility class in a pinch that is decent. We have the potiential to be a really great hybrid, if only we can maintain the balance of using our dps+pet+spells with our different strengths.
All the nay sayers who say we shouldn't have Invis (for crying out loud!), a better focus, and a better slow, or a better way to cure ourselves and maybe even others besides just our pet, they don't know how convinent it would be to have these things when you DON'T have them at all. I will admit and be honest with you all and with myself, it doesn't happen often that your at a raid and that no shaman are on at all and that they actually need the beast focus spell, but you know what, its happened to me once in my current guild (a good long while ago but still), and you don't know how GREAT it felt to be able to have GROUP FOCUS and MGB it for the raid, or do it by groups. For once I felt more valuable and useful and the guild was SURE GLAD I WAS THERE!
Now I'm not saying the only answer is more utility for the beastlord, but in our current state I think that is definately what we lack most, and it makes sense to start there.
A post that someone said on the EQ Forums that I can't get out of my mind and that I don't understand why the developers didn't think of it is something along the lines of..."start making your own spell line or abilities that no one else can have and stop taking things from your parent class"....
OK Well I know we've tried to do that, we've posted tons of ideas...and some have even been put to use thru the years (which is a great start!)..but we need MORE of that and it should have been done that way a long time ago....but its the DEVS who feel that the way the game is currently being played, we need to have spells from the shaman line aka our "parent".
And it seems this line of thinking is for all classes....why did this type of thinking stay that way after so much change in the EQ enviroment, why can't the way we learn spells and abilities change as well? Why didn't they just make up all the spell line for beastlords, instead of just making up a few spells, and then copy pasting the lowest level spells from the shaman, and then blurring everything buy giving us tons of summon pets of different levels, procs, pet heals, and haste up the @$$ and discontinuing exisiting old lines of spells?
It would be freaking awesome to have beastlords be able to change into a Werewolf form instead of a shaman...I really dont understand where or why they thought it was ok for shammys but not for us...I mean we're BEAST LORDS...we should be able to control beasts (maybe we need to be able to summon multiple different types of pets/beasts? more ideas like the werewolf but different animals) and even morph into them as AA abilities....these are the types of things that would truly define our class.
We'd be the king of beasts/animals......but...oh wait...thats what druids/rangers/shaman/ and even mages (with monster summoning) can do.......
When will the devs stop giving a hoot about what OTHERS think, instead of what WE think and what would indeed define us as a CLASS in the game.
/rant off
The beastlord class if I had *my* way of doing things, would have seen upgrades in tons of old spell lines purely for convinence and would have been beneficial to beastlords of all levels and playstyles. Plus we would have been a Werewolf and shammys would NEVER have gotten that AA imo.
Another thing I would have done is alot of the suggestions/ideas I personally have come up with would have been done plus new ideas. And sincerely I wish I could see all those ideas given to the beastlord on a test server. All the spells, and all these ideas and just have them on a test server for nothing but the beastlord class period, and truly test it and see what ideas are too overpowering and which ideas stink but look good in theory ect and truly give us a chance to fix ourselves as a class and define ourselves in what we want to do.
The point is, these problems that we're having is due to lack of YEARS worth of minor spells that could have been given along with tons of lack of creativity for AAs, skills and other class defining things that should have been created from scratch, not copy pasting shammy spells.
I'm starting to look for that "turn me into a shammy button" or "turn me into two different toons button".
Quote from: Humlaine on August 09, 2007, 09:12:01 PM
I like the phrase you give a person a inch, they will try and take a mile, I dont know about you but If I am putting in a request for a spell its not gonna be a small spell its going for a good one that plays more then one role for our class.
This almost sounds like you're not willing to ask for something reasonable. You want the mile or nothing? I'd rather have something than nothing.
Besides, who said you can only ask for one spell/disc? Ask for a bunch of reasonable things, let's see what we get.
Quote from: Nusa on August 10, 2007, 07:03:44 AM
Quote from: Humlaine on August 09, 2007, 09:12:01 PM
I like the phrase you give a person a inch, they will try and take a mile, I dont know about you but If I am putting in a request for a spell its not gonna be a small spell its going for a good one that plays more then one role for our class.
This almost sounds like you're not willing to ask for something reasonable. You want the mile or nothing? I'd rather have something than nothing.
Besides, who said you can only ask for one spell/disc? Ask for a bunch of reasonable things, let's see what we get.
we've been plenty reasonable and we see what we got. if i hear another bst say "but the shammy's won't like that", i'll just lose my cookies.
Quote from: Bumkus on August 11, 2007, 02:29:24 AM
we've been plenty reasonable and we see what we got. if i hear another bst say "but the shammy's won't like that", i'll just lose my cookies.
We currently have not not received anything. We have simply heard nothing from Prathun as to whether *anybody* will or will not receive any of these requests.
I don't care much whether shaman like or don't like any of the things I'd like from their lists, personally. But, I do think there's a lot of ridiculous/overreaching requests in this thread.
Quote from: hakaaba on August 06, 2007, 04:14:11 AM
Of course this means shamans need to get something thats better in some way than tribunal and an upgraded cripple somewhere between levels ~70 and 80
IIRC shamans were offered an upgrade to Crippling Spasm but it was dropped from the final lineup due to the limit of spells allowed and because most shamans felt that that was the spell that was least useful and could be sacrificed.
Chanters got their upgrade in the form of Fractured Conciousness.
Since Shamans felt it a spell not worth defending I would have no problems if we tried to claim it for the Beastlord class.
1) Spiritual line - Would like to see something other than a hp/mana regen perhaps add spell haste, mana prev, or something
2) Fero - As it is its very mana intensive and slows down our dps during raids. Group form or arua would be nice but with added benefit of accuracy, avoidance, etc.
3) Pet melee/spell runes - It was fairly stupid in the first place to separate these spells into two lines. Not only does it decrease pet survivability but it makes them useless on raids where mobs aoe rampage and proc.
4) Heals - I'd like to see a cure base put in with our regular heals or perhaps a self only heal with corruption and curse cures. Its not too far fetched that if our pet heals get them why can't our regular heals have them.
5) Paragon - With tanks and clerics hp/mana pool growing so should our paragon line. Wouldn't mind seeing it single shot but it have to be a major upgrade to it as a trade off.
6) SV - Like with fero perhaps adding ferocity, cleave, etc to the line would make it more attractive to melee.
7) slow/incapacitate - Its been a long while since we've seen any upgrade to these so its about due.
I would like to see our cripple line upgraded, to at least cripple, also I would like to see us be given panther single cast, it would give us more of a support role in certain situations, and give us more of a utility overall
i don't see us getting panther under any circumstance.
A cripple upgrade would be great, of course. But you're forgetting all the other little upgrades that, sure, are insignificant by themselves. but once we stopped getting dex buffs, for example, suddenly shamans got a direct avoidance buff as an upgrade to the dex buff line and we get left out of that catagory of buffs. These buffs may seem "small", but these are precisely the kind of buffs praethun is asking about in the first place.
He's asking about the stupid little trivial spells that might be useful once a month, which is more than the never that they are useful when we don't have them at all.
Some sort of HOT
cripple be nice but would nvr use
more poison nukes
Dots if they are worth it.
Monks
dont want fd
run 8!
some sort of mend like they have be cool make it link to warder heals both?
flying kick
I'm all for a HoT, it would make staying alive in many different aoe, and ramping situation alot easier. If it was a Quiescence lvl Hot that would be good, which isn't even as good as a healing X potion but no refresh timer. What i dont want to see is a torpor and have to take a 30% slow for a minimal hot.
I feel that if shaman's and monks are our parent classes, we are lacking monkish stuff. aka, need an upgraded rake, def disc, and even off disc.
Personally, i dont think we really need a HoT spell, it would be handy granted, but would we really use it so much? from my experience HoT spells cost too much for the healing granted, they could do the same to bst HoT spell line and we could end up with a spell that was a nice thought, but was not necessary, just like are pet slow......
Actually, a high level Shaman HoT that was self-only wouldn't be too far out of line. We already get a small taste of that as one of the effects of Growl.
I would like to see a few more of the buffs from the shaman tree come our way. A HoT would be ok, if you make it self only though I would never mem it, I only have room in my spell lineup for 1 heal and would prefer a direct heal that I can hit other people with in an emergency. Overstat buffs wouldn't be too far removed from what we should get at a reduced effectiveness and maybe some form of extra debuffs as well.
Personally would like to see some form of deagro like I've mentioned in another post. With everyone arguing for a new debuff but no way of losing the huge amount of agro these generate then it leaves us more in the hole than we already are. How about we could get a short reuse shroud (much like bestial alignment)? These shrouds could have multiple uses, say panther form could mean we have an innate chance to evade after an attack to lose a set amount of agro........just an idea.
Wow, This thread has turned into a wish list..... Please remember the topic all ( Per Prathun's request at FF, spells PARENT classes have that the hybrids should )
1 - Talisman of Celerity Easy upgrade, Convenience issue--------YES
2 - Cripple http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1592&source=Live This would be a plenty sufficient upgrade for SoF, imo. (see The List thread for what I'm talking about) ABSOLUTELY YES
3 - Levitation http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2894&source=Live Easy upgrade, convenience issue (no reagent). (medium yes mainly becasue batwings stack 100 now)
Longshots:
Remove Curse (doubt w e'd get RGC) YES
Pure Blood YES
HoT line - Quiescence at 80 wouldn't be horribly overpowering....might be able to make a case for it. ( so/so yes, without an AA line to crit HoTs this will be sooo gimp)
Might be nice:
Spirit of Scale http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1554&source=Live
One of the major things i believe all will agree on is the fact we need some upgrade in Cures, whether it be Disease/Poison/Curse and that is becoming more of a necessity than a convenience issue.
Now my next Question I pose to everyone. Other than we share the same leather armor, Rake, and block. What other relationship do we have to monks? Unfortunately, i am not well versed enough on monks disc. I see everyone on this forum wants shammy buffs but i do think we should look into some monk disc (at least their lower level disc's) or some form of i with a beasty twist........ just a thought. =)
Bsts & monks share a defensive disc (their stonestance = our protective spirit)
We basically have Innerflame + crit increase, in Empathic Fury.
I'd like their Voiddance (increase avoidance by 10000% for 2 ticks), but don't expect that tbh.
While I'd love FD, that's not something that honestly suits us.
Their pacify discs from lower level would be useless, bcs they'd not work on the mobs we'd want to pull.
So, as to monks, yeah, we've got the discs for the most part we'd use.
A kick that's some dps would be really nice. sorry, the 5 or less that kick is presently ain't worth it to some (not myself, but some ;p)
I already mentioned a monk aa and a monk disc on the very first response to this thread.
Shaman -
Talisman of Celerity
Cripple
Some kind of Cure (lesser rgc line)
Monk -
Anything involving a kick that actually does damage (Nusa's Idea works for me)