Ph spells?

[Deiadrox]

Where'd they all go?  Maybe they'll put the spells in later?  Was kinda hopeing for a new slow, or maybe a replacement for group ios.

[cougerofeq]

A group today was conerned that my slow would bounce off the mobs in the proving grounds( yellows and reds to us) = I assured them it would be fine and they added me. It did bounce some - but not horridly. A new slow with a lower resist would be nice - even other classes are concerned it seems.

[Tastian]

"even other classes are concerned it seems."

Good because the truth is I'm concerned.  This started to be annoying back in PoE for most people.  Back then though the dps wasn't nearly as bad on mobs and most beastlords that were earth flagged could use prot spirit and tank the mob for a bit on a couple resisted slows.  Flash ahead to say KT and I loath being main slower in certain groups.  The other day I went back to KT for a bit and with extra levels and all and had a horrendous time.  Fought for maybe an hour or so tops.  In that time we had 2 MT deaths agianist mobs that simply weren't slowed as they resisted 3+ slows.  We had 3 me deaths because I yanked aggro from bouncing slows and both prot spirit and roar of thunder were down from previous times.  

I had one person in group try to comfort me by saying "don't worry dru/rng have problems snaring at times".  That's all fine and dandy, but snare is ~99% as effective in most spots if you land it at 30% of a mobs life or 100%.  Unless the bounced snares yank aggro it's really not an issue.  The longer it takes to get slow in though the less effective it is.  Also if you do successfully slow then yank aggro than you still have a less effective slow as the mob pounds on you instead of the MT.

[Tastian]

Oh, and just to clarify I'm not saying bst should be king schit of turd mountain when it comes to slowers.  I think the % of slows are in line, but the rate of landing them in spots definitely needs work.  I don't mind slows bouncing sometimes, I don't even mind entire mobs resisting slow "sometimes" , but in an hour long exp session, with multiple level advantage, to have cleric low on mana to have about five deaths all because I did the right thing, but it didn't stick simply doesn't work for me.  I haven't exp'd much in omens, so I'll do slow tests there and see how I feel about it, but several things in omens are there to help deal with GoD.  A slow with resist mod is very justified atm and I hope they do something about it fast.  I mentioned in another thread what the timeline would probably be on this, but in the next couple days please look for threads popping up in the corr forums and on other boards, same thread so just need to read one hehe, and we'll see if we can get all of the spell issues atleast addressed and answered and hopefully some fixes as well.

[Nimbin]

At 66 I've been grouping Slaughter and it's not uncommon to have 3 or 4 resists in a row while trying to land slow.  Luckily I've had good clerics in the groups to heal the tank, although it gets pretty close sometimes.  I think it changes the dynamic of the group a bit with the cleric having to keep an eye on both the beast and tank on incoming mobs.  Sometimes I've almost felt I had to pull aggro off tank just to give the CH time to land.  We've also had a druid in the group throwing in patch heals as well.

Not sure if this will become the norm for OoW zones, perhaps an AA, augment, or focus effect for beasts or all classes that lowers the resist mod of your spells or a line of spells like magic, cold, etc.  Perhaps gaining a few levels will help as well.

[Shieara]

I didn't seem like I had any more issues slowing in WoS then I do in PoE, SRT or anywhere else.  I was only there for one exp session of a few hours though, and I had a chanter to back me up if things went south.  I too would greatly appreciate a slow that landed better.

[Eatbugs]

Actually, I have yet to find a mob in WoS that's as hard to land a slow on as Fire or Earth mobs - even the red con named are slowable pretty easily.  WoS mobs just don't have much in the way of MR.

I said this on the SOE boards and I'll say it here - I really don't think we need a slow with a modified resist check.  In fact, I think getting an MR-based slow with a negative resist tacked on that's in line with our previous slows (fast cast, fast refresh) would be a bad idea from a balance perspective unless Shaman get exactly the same slow.  If SOE is going to continute to balance Shaman almost exclusively around slows and buffs, (And they show no signs of changing that, although I think it's been a silly idea for a while now) there needs to be a perceptible advantage to having a Shaman slowing in a group over a Beastlord.  Right now, bounced slows and getting things slowed late in some places are our disadvantage.  We can get groups as a dps class - Shaman can't.

Of course, I don't do groups in Kod'Taz, so my perspective is a bit different than Tastian's.  Class balance changes a lot from mid-range to high end.

[Dummkopf]

Eatbugs, just for your information, shamans got a 75% slow with built in resist modifier and 1.5s cast time in GoD already (Balance of Nihil) so there is nothing to be concerned about in terms of balancing.

[Zurash Kittenclaws]

I have noticed the spell concerns post on the dev boards has slipped a little towards the bottom. Hopefully this isn't a sign that they are just going to wave off our concerns, which I think are quite justified.

Our range of spells in OOW is really quite sad, and the level of upgrade to most of our old lines arent too flash either. :(

[Eatbugs]

Eatbugs, just for your information, shamans got a 75% slow with built in resist modifier and 1.5s cast time in GoD already (Balance of Nihil) so there is nothing to be concerned about in terms of balancing.

True enough, but it's twice the mana of Sha's Revenge, half the duration, and has a longer recast.  If you think a 65%, (we won't be getting a 70 or 75% slow, put that out of your head) 300 mana slow with a resist modifier and a longer recast is something you'd like, feel free to bug a dev. I'd use it if we got it.

[Dummkopf]

Sure, i thought along those lines, more manacost, prolly a longer recast (although i dont see that if the cast time remains the same) and a shorter duration would be good. And i never mentioned anything over 65% ;)

[Eatbugs]

And i never mentioned anything over 65%

Uhh - yer right, you didn't.  I think I'm having two arguments at once on different boards. Sorry about that.  :?

[cougerofeq]

Been a bad week for me. Started with 2 groups not wanted a BST as main slower because our slows bounced (MPG zone). Then got crap because my DPS was below the warriors in the group - which I replied - aye- we havent gotten much the last 2 expansions.

I got some sympathy in guild chat with comments like - man, the new BST spell upgrades are lame.  Whats with 1 point on spiritual ascendence?  :)

Several of the groups I did get this week were not "optimal" and I found myself slower, haster and general buffer - was a real pain with very few group spells and no upgrades on the ones ppl want.

Then tonight the group I was in decided the druid was a better tank per the clerics reccomendation.  I was slower and tank and it is hard to get slow to land when POF tower mobs are beating on you = so it was best for the druid to tank I guess. At least when slow got resisted I could recast without getting beat on the whole time.

Just a real discouraging EQ week.

[Musogi]

The effectiveness of our slows was based on level for a while.  Back when they were playing with slow mitigation for about a week.

I remember being 68, slowing mobs and getting the "partially slowed" message, while the lvl 70 bst in my group was slowing for full with less resists, and overwriting my slows.  I thought this was a cool idea, but unfortunately its been removed.

Oh, and our slow is disease, not magic...

[Ekss]

Oh, and our slow is disease, not magic...

No, no, no, no, no!

Our slow is magic-based. It adds disease counters, but it still checks against magic.
Check Lucy: Sha's Revenge
Notice that slot 3 adds 16 disease counters, but that the resist is Magic.

Shamans do get disease slows. Take Cloud of Grummus, for example. Note that it adds disease counters just like normal magic-based slows, but the resist is Disease.

All beastlord slows check against Magic, not Disease.