Spiritual Line Duration Increased (Stealth?)

[Dancolen]

I would use SD on every raid just because its more intelligent... but then you get 40 tells wanting SA....  people whine when you mgb HoV(yeah... we dont have a HoC cleric yet, soon tho) after a wipe and tell them to live with it....    they think 1 extra mana regen will save the raid...  300hp on a wizard will keep them alive...

Now there is no point in doing SD over SA

Before there was a 20% mana saving difference in casting SD over SA and all they lost was 1hp/mana a tick.
Now there is only a 11% mana saving difference.

Used to slow and offtank(for 5 seconds) things in raids... and patch heal.....  no mana for that now.
Otherwise is a nice spell for grouping.... bad for raiding less you burn MGB then it becomes soso
People die and want their buffs now.... not 2min from now, now

But all that being said... its managable
People WILL be close to their group leader now
People WILL have all their group in zone
It will ONLY be cast once per group less you die.... period

Just beasts gotta get a lot stricter and not let things slide now.
No recasting it 3 times on same group

[Yzak]

Well, overall it isn't pointless just because it doesn't fit into your playstyle.  Should we say that Conviction last 60 minutes because your guild only lives for 60 minutes at a time?  No because our class needs doesn't revolve around your specific eq life. 

Pretty sure this has been on the top 10 as long as I remember, maybe even since the top 10 was conceived.

[Kanan]

Aye.. after I'd just done it on my group & other bst did a half beat later.. if u have multiple bsts in raid, you now need to communicate with each other to prevent wasting a lot of mana.  We've been able to slack there because it was relatively cheap.  Now its not, so preventing duplication is important.

Overall, I don't mind much.. look at the old costs of some of the buffs that were group only for chanters.  Its still more and you couldn't do single.

Yes, they have fixed that... so a single one would be nice as well.

[Discordant]

Sorry but I just disagree.

Heres my situation, we clear Anguish in two hours just the same as you.  With the old SA, we generally had to cast it 3 times or so before we zoned out.  Now, we might only have to cast it once, dependent on fast we go.  Thats a big plus, because we never have to load SA again.  We don't kill Rikk/Kess anymore, but for Vish and Yarlir, we start with Vish first, buff and kill, then move on to Yarlir.  Under our old SA, we had to buff at the beginning of both fights.  Now, we only have to buff the entire raid once, at the start of Vish.  I already sacrifice a spell slot for Fero and Fero of I; another spell slot to keep SA up.  Now I don't have to, because unless someone dies, I know its going to last and I won't have to rebuff as much.  Granted, Katonis, I and the other two of our beasts take turns at doing SA, but now, two can take the beginning of the raid, and two others can take middle/end, and be done with it.

With DoDH coming out, we have experience the same amount of wipe and learn that you have.  We also generally take our time to set up and make sure we have everything correct, which means sometimes we are sitting around for 30 minutes, and with a fight that lasts 20, SA wears off somewhere in between.  Now, when we are setting up, we don't have to worry about it wearing off.

Complain all you want to about the mana increase; those complaints hardly are enough to diminish SA's new utility.  I'm freaking extremely thankful that SA's duration was increased, and you are extremely foolish to have thought that Sony would just merely increase the duration.  It might not fit your playstyle or how your guild works, but for most of us, its something that we have wanted for a long time.  One beast's complaints on specific circumstances v. an entire community that has been clamoring for increased duration for a long time? Do the math.

[Rarrum]

They still never fixed the range on SA either.

SA has range 100.
All the rest of the line is 200.

[Dancolen]

As I said... its managable, but you have to be a lot stricter, no more casting it 3 times on the same group in 8minutes because some people were zoning.  Now SA will be done later, when other large mana cost group buffs are done like c6...  As opposted to before, when id hit anyone with it, anytime, no matter what.. because the mana cost was enough to warrant it on demand.

Now its a more priveledged buff, Im not casting it 25 times on a 12 group raid in less than 30minutes....  Im casting it 12 times, period.
Just saying alot of the niceness is going to go bye bye because the mana cost was upped, not that its a problem or that it should be diminished really.  Its manageable, and will work.

I cant imagine you not having anyone die on raiding ever.... though.
I had to keep SA memmed, not for it wearing off, I would demem and remem it then if that were the case... but people die all the time during raids... its just something that happens....  therefore it was always in a spell slot.

[Tastian]

"Next time we ask for something we need to include all the parameters.
What we asked for = 1hr 12 SA.
What we should have asked for  = 1hr 12 sa for the same mana"

That just wouldn't happen.  You are talking roughly a 60% increase in duration of a *MANA* giving spell.  There is just no way they were going to raise the duration by such a large amount and keep the mana cost the same. 

I think a lot of people will have to play around with it and for some there are situations where it's worse.  That's just how it goes with duration based spell.  Ask the enc that used to kei, the druids doing steeloak, almost every other buffer on the raid.  I guess this is part of what I'm still missing, I don't know how many necros you have or what they do, but how is it that bsts with compareable mana and mana regen are so completely behind on buffing a 900mana group spell when multiple other classes are having to do the exact same with 1100-2k+ mana spells?  Maybe get a feed from a necro here or there, maybe burn a mod rod if you never used it.  When you first pop back in after rez, tag a group with buffs with perfection if you used to wait on it, etc. 

I do think it's obvious that some people need to speak up sooner or more or something though.  In the last year+ I've gotten over 250 pms on this board alone, had thousands of posts, gotten I don't know how many e-mails and I can't find a single one that said "don't change the duration on SA".  Meanwhile, the duration was a top 10 issue atleast once.  We had tons of bst talking about how they have no use past the first bst on a raid.  Lots bashing on perfection and how low use it is now, etc.  Suddenly it changes and now people are losing there minds over it.  If you have a problem with someone or think you might have a problem with someone other people are asking for/want then please speak up.  I'm not a mind reader.  There's a thread in the corr forums now about fero.  Take a look there and see the debates going on over group/single target/effects/etc.  If we as a class can't even totally agree about a single buff is it really any wonder that it's hard for the devs to balance certain things?

We as a class though are hybrids and we bring numerous things to a raid.  If you are the only beastlord on a raid and are single handedly providing 10mana/hp a tick to every member of the raid that wants it then your personal dps is going to suffer some because the utility you are bringing has gone way up.  This is no different than fero'n 4 people instead of casting a few extra nukes.  Mana matters, and always should have.  We have more choices now than ever and I understand that leaves some people wanting, but others seem to be embracing the options they've got.  If you are on a raid as a solo bst and are the only doing SA, are the only one fero'n a few people, possibly drop some spot heals or slow some stray mobs then your guild probably isn't going to mind that you are doing 50 less dps or however much.  It's a utility verse dps trade-off that just makes sense.  If you don't think SA is worth the extra nuke or short duration pet then don't do it.  I know tons of people over the years I've refused to fero lol.

[Bengali]

Essant,

If *most* people are happy with the change because *most* of the time it benefits them more than the old one, then *overall* it's a good change.  You think it's pointless all the time.  Okay.  But not everyone is in a guild that chain wipes to events and has one beastlord to buff everyone.  Yar'Lir?  The only people who die on that fight are afk or naked.  Rikk and Kess?  Both jokes.  Anyone who dies on those fights (idiots, usually) doesn't get rezzed before we kill the mobs anyway, so there's no issue about me not having mana to dps for those fights because of deaths.  Vish?  If you're seriously having mana issues on this then you're missing a key part of the event.

MPG?  Can do all six trials and have only a handful of deaths.  Anguish?  OMM is the only mob that wipes us, and there's plenty of time to get your mana back because of all the stuff you have to do.  Plus it's not a fight where you get to just chain dump your mana into dps like a robot so I don't even need all my mana to start for that and it won't make any difference either way.  So in Anguish, any of the beastlords can MGB SA (there's no reason to save MGBs because there isn't a single event that we do where we need MGB heals) and MGB will be back up before SA fades.  Tacvi?  it's on farm status, only apps die there or ramp/rage-eating melees who don't get SA anyway.

DoDh?  Bloodeye?  Joke.  People don't get battle rezzed on this and if they die to the trash it's because they have ADD or something.  Shyra?  Joke.  No one dies on this event at all.  Draygun?  If you are just mana dumping on this fight then you're gonna wipe people.  If you do wipe, you have to start the whole instance over anyway because Draygun stays powered up, and again you have forever and four days to get your mana back even if you single-handedly buff the raid group by group.  I can't speak for Hive Queen or Council of 9 because I haven't been around for those.

So for me, this change isn't pointless.  Apparently it's not pointless for a lot of other people too, and it's not just people in Ikkinz-farming guilds or people who take forever to kill mobs like you suggested.

[Sharrien]

Quick derail - Sharrien - In Time what mobs are you using Paragon on? Zek bros AE's are avoidable if take two steps back.

Bert and CT AE's can be 95% avoided by 1 bard in the raid triangle singing (hint start on the opposite side of the room before engaging the melle to avoid the first AE which is the only painful one) i.e. place tanks in front of healers with a bard on a wall and wall pin, mellee long way away MT calls assist everyone else moves in.

Inny and RZ dont AE anything that I recall which just leaves quarm, which yeah if people dont have Vet AA can get nasty.

Or am I taking you too literaly.

We don't need to paragon all the time to win each of those encounters, but if it's available to use, we do so.  Those who use thier's on the Zeks are usually ready to fire again by the time we get to Quarm, sometimes by Inny or even RZ if we are slacking.  I try to make sure we use at least one, maybe two on Bert, Inny (adds/fear make him chaotic sometimes) and Quarm.  Helps a lot to keep down incidental deaths so healers can concentrate more on the tanks and keeps our pets up better.  IMO, that's a much better use of MGB than the convenience of buffing SA in a single cast.

[Sharrien]

Yar'Lir?  The only people who die on that fight are afk or naked.  Rikk and Kess?  Both jokes.  Anyone who dies on those fights (idiots, usually) doesn't get rezzed before we kill the mobs anyway, so there's no issue about me not having mana to dps for those fights because of deaths.  Vish?  If you're seriously having mana issues on this then you're missing a key part of the event.

Hmmmm, sounds like some mobs we would like to try.  Care to pass on some strats?  :wink:

[Bengali]

I'd love to, but you know how paranoid people are in EQ.  The Vish strat is listed on Alla's though. :)

[Kivuli]

Me? I'll take the extra duration thank you very much. Good change in my book.

[DontPetBear]

Good points and bad points to it for me.  Doing DoN's and having the cleric/chanter die a couple times sure eats into your mana pool for the mission; even with c6 and a bard along.  Its kind of fun actually having to worry about mana again, but i'll have to see how it goes in the days ahead.  Definately see it eating into my dps already though.

I about choked when i saw my mana drop when i mgb'd at the main bank...of course i had a fizzle right before cast too lol.  Won't be anymore 'sure no problem' to 'hey can i get SD" from late-comers to the p/u raids i go to.  Always 5-6 requests as we head to target.  And i'll be asking any other Bst's if they have SA, any bounces will tend to tick me off now.

[Visimar]

i couldnt disagree with you more Discordant. your obviously living in a perfect eq world where no one in any of the groups you SA die. when 1 person dies in a group, they will send you a tell asking for it...thats means the 5 other people are also gonna get a refresh. Basically if 9 people die and you SA them in that 90 min time frame, its basically as if you have re done the raid anyway, but this time its alot more mana. this extended duriation does absolutely nothing for high end raids...becuase people die alot

even when sa was at 60 min. i would have probaly SA'd over the same group 3 times in that time frame from either the raid wiping, or 1 person dieing in that group.


another sony miscalcualtion..im not shocked one bit


this only helps in groups really. groups that are just exp grinding and not planning to wipe and know that they will be alive after the 90min for a refresh. i dont know about you guys, but SAing 1 time an hour didnt bother me the slightest...i mean 1 hr how lazy can we be to complain about that? im shock this was a top 10 for beast fixing. this can  also be useful for when a friend of yours comes to you in pok or guild hall..and wants SA, so he can then go solo.

[Xennova]

Was raid yesterday and i must say i was liking it! but we did not wipe pretty often