Leveling help or AA versus Levels debate...

[Hrann]

I average higher than that from just raiding.

At 65, even playing relatively casually, you can easily do 5-10 aa a week.

The key word there is relatively.  I don't consider someone who plays every day to be casual.  I don't consider someone who plays all weekend casual.  In any other hobby, spending 10+ hours a week on something would hardly be called casual.  (OK, I realize we sometimes use that word in the EQ sense to mean a non-raider.)

I play when I get a chance, which means I MAY go on during the week sometime, or not.  On the weekend I'll usually try to get on Saturday or Sunday morning, or both if I have free time.  If my wife goes shopping without me or something, I may go on then.  That's about it, and it equals 1-3AAs a week in general.

Starting sometime around March of 1998, I played an awful lot, definitely more than casually.  After about 8 months of that, I realized it wasn't as fun for me as playing once in a while in a casual way, so I stopped playing like that.

[TerjynPovar]

I'm right there with you Hrann.  Most people would scoff at 24 AAs in 4  months even if it was at level 51, much less 60.

As a matter of fact, during a lot of weeks I spent more time reading EQ-related boards than I did actually playing the game.  :)

The board is harder to leave than the game is!  :twisted:

[ghostryder]

I think Hrann has said what i've been trying to say all along-

AAs slow at 65 because of behaviour-

myself and what I do with my 65 toons is totally different than my goals for my 60's toons-

Which is why I'm farming plat at 60- here 'm looking to loot as many masks or tunics or whatnot to get that bazaar stuff, that weapon, or whatever-

At 65 I don't care about farming plat - I've bought everything there is to buy and I need upgrades only raiding can provide, or LDON (like the weapon) so I'm doing that-

In practice AAs are not even my goal, thee something that happens on the side, and in every case just about my 60 always logs with twice or three times the AAs as my 65's-

But at 65 what do I really care- I mean my stats are maxed anyhow, all the decent AAs I want are in and whatever I'm sinking them in now I could take or leave- my main focus now are hitpoints and AC, afterall, and the AAs that gave me the HPs have been done long ago- and I've got all FT items up to the cap limit-

But at 60 boy those ornate boots are a goal, as well as a good weapon, having my AAs in on the mana and HP regens, Hitpints overall and damage and avoidance.

In AC at 60 I'm not yet enjoying a FT5 item but those grims at 60 require little to no pet healing anyway- all I need is to produce a slow per kill, and yes, taking a grimling down in 20 seconds is about normal-

I can clear both front rooms and the hall in the 25 minutes respawn to work both camps and that kill rate would have to be accurrate to pull that off-

The reason I mostly fluncuate between 3 or 4 AAs is mainly due to how I feel that night and how distracted I am. I might be chatting with guildmates, for instance , and not be on top of every spawn, or screwing around with snacks, or simply tired and unfocused-

But the nights the game has my full attention I'm standing on a spawn spot before the grimling has even popped, and the AAs fly by.

I've camped the mobs in the castle just as often with my 65 beast as well- usually helping someone out on the great earring that drops inside or the shaman boots on the balcony- and those mobs drop much slower- and my AA intake is not that great simply because of the much extra time it takes me to kill those castle mobs- and I am raid equiped at that-

As for Velks- I used that as it was mentioned, not because I like velks- I would never pick velks as a farm camp- nor any other type of camp- I hate the place. It's the type of overcrowded zone I avoid at all costs, but there no denying those spiders offer great AAs for a level 60.

[Thanatos]

Ghost,

While I somewhat agree with you in that stopping at 60 and doing some AA's can be very rewarding and fun I am extremely skeptical about your AAXP rates.

I was in Acrylia exclusively from level 57-60 (currently level 61).  Great loot, great fun, great xp.  At 60 I started doing aa's.  It initiallly took me approximately 3 hours / aa.  With the extra cash from acrylia and named drops and runes and such,  I was able to upgrade some equipment (actually a LOT of equipment :), which increased my dps.  I also increased my dps through AA's.  I did 28 aa's there at level 60.  My end time for aa's was just over 2 hours each (like 2:02 or something   :)

I cannot see how this aaxp time (2 hours per aa) could be drastically improved upon.  Additional AA's would help, so I could see beating my time, but again not by much.  Even if you discount pull times (i.e. fighting at spawn points) you still have to take time to loot.  With that, it would be difficult to sustain a kill rate of more then 1 mob per minute.  This would equal 60 mobs per hour which at almost 1% per mob would net you about 50% aaxp in an hour.

By my estimate, the mobs have approximately 5k HP (someone correct me if they know better, but I know my 450point DD almost drops them by 10%).  Dropping one in 20seconds means you are doing 250dps at level 60!

Anyway, just wanted to post to let others know that this is still a great aaxp spot at 60 (and a great xp spot from 57-60) solo.  A great way to get some fast AA upgrades and some great equipment upgrades (through bazaar cash mostly).

[TerjynPovar]

I'm going to ask one more time because I'm a glutton for punishment.

Ghost, do you still play?  Do you have a 65 Beastlord?

If so, please go post logs of you killing grimlings every 10 seconds...sustained...for a half hour.  Should be simple, yet you seem to refuse to do so.

I don't know what your perception of time is, but I 100% absolutely guarantee you are NOT killing Grimlings every 20 seconds at level 60.  At level 60 I'd be amazed if you could "chat with guildmates and friends" and maintain a pace of 1 per minute.

[ghostryder]

57 is the time to o to AC for sure, mainly because it's the level that it's possible to single pull- and though the AAs will slow some if you ding 61 because the mobs light blue out it was still decent AAs through 62-

for some reason after that, why I'm not sure, but at 63 up they barely move-

Do I still play? Not too frequently now and when I do its an alt on FV-
and if I did log my 65 AC is not a place I'd take him- unless I was, as mentioned, helping someone go after a drop in the castle or perhaps help in retrieving a corpse or showing them the hidden exits ect if they were concidering camping there-

At 57-62 though, especially with loot in mind- AC is an excellent camp-and yes as the AAs mount up down time shrinks of course- if your having trouble with killing the grimlings fast then my guess is your not using the correct weapons and pet placement- the key to killing the grimlings, especially the healers, is interrupts- the pet behind and the proc on your weapons will determine whether they get a heal off, which is a complete heal by the way- and also pulling stratedy so no other grims are healing-

those that are warriors have the most HPs, and the sk/necros go down the fastest-

After you have your strategy down and learn which are which and of course are correctly equiped and have at least the mana AAs with perhaps a soltice earring and the FT3 boots your only concern is your health regen, where I've had the most luck with lifetap procs on my weapons-a wlks and epic is a bad combination IMHO- the epic has a 41% haste and not a lot of damage-the wlks is okay but the LDON weapon with lifetaps aug  and a wlks and the 36% haste belt will not only up you DPS but also again will elimate any need to back off and heal yourself in a fight- and if the rest of your armor gives you 1100 or so AC there's no need to ever stop to heal or regain mana- these mobs only hit for 90-100 and with decent resists spells are resisted if any spells are cast at all with proper pet placement.

correctly done both front camps and the entrance and hall can indeed be kept clear- that's roughly 40 plus grimling s plus bugs- adding to plus 80 mobs in 50 minutes- which give more than 1%- which will ding an AA-

Mages actually are better at these two camps, and I've seen necros do a fantastic job-

furthur in the steps and alter room can be worked as well- it concists of killing the 12 static grims in the alter room (the name spawns on the rug looking across the lava, who drops a 1hE and 2hE swords worth 8k-14k)the 2 wandering grims- 4 in the hall, 6 skellys on the steps, a couple bugs then the 8 grims on the steps in front of the false door (the one closest to false door is the PC for the robe and gloves) which is an easier camp as there's more room to work and few venture that far in unless headed to the castle-however the large room outside has many mobs to again get 40 in 25 minutes before the repop- and again the 1 AA in less than an hour-

edit: one note of caution for going in the castle- I've seen countless groups completely wipe in castle if any member in the group is below 57. Seems if that's the case your argo the whole castle on a pull. Also its very possible to go in the castle at 57 but where come in has 4 wandering mobs, and one is a PC for a named - and all named in castle hit for 400 plus- so 62 up is much better has that pet can handle an add while your likely have to run with the 60 pet-however, if timed right the named by the cages can be worked for a very nice earring my beasty still is wearing at 65- and once by the cages the grims in the cages don't argo so a 57 can concievably work the PH plus the 2 wanderers and door guards pulling to the cages's room with little worry of getting in trouble- though getting there can be a challenge alone)

[Thanatos]

Ghost, you appear to know the zone very well.  I don't have a Magelo profile, but my equipment is not an issue.

The healers almost never get off a CH because my pet procs or my slam interrupt them constantly.  I never have to heal myself, my fungi and high AC take care of that for me.

My weapons are a Dedgerex Cudgel and Waning Light Katar.  The grimlings drop very fast.  Pet is always in the rogue position.  Still, you claim to kill more than seems possible based on my experience.

In one of your posts you claimed to be able to kill one every 20 seconds.  In the post above you say 80 mobs in 50 minutes (I thought the repop on these guys is 28 minutes by the way, not 25, but I would have to time it to be certain).  80 mobs in 50 minutes is one ever 37.5 seconds.  Quite a bit of difference from one every 20 seconds.  And I still maintain that it would be almost impossible to loot and maintain that pace.

Finally, the Grimlings do not all give over 1% once you hit 60.  At 60 about 1/3 are light blue and I know I have killed one and not gone up a percent in AAXP meaning they give less than 1%.  I'll have to go back and log the number of kills I can now handle at 61, but at 60 I'm pretty sure I was killing approximately 60 mobs in 60 minutes and getting 50% aaxp for that.  That means you have to kill 120 mobs to get a full AA, not 80.

Once again, just to clarify, Ghost is right in that Acrylia is a great place to fight solo.  You get it all there (xp, vendor loot, bazaar loot, named) !!!  But don't go there as an average Beastlord and expect to get more than an AA every 2 hours.  That's all I could pull off and I think my equipment is pretty decent.

[TerjynPovar]

Indeed, that's almost double the amount of time per that you were claiming prior.

However, you suddenly say that all give more than 1% AA per, when earlier you were claiming 5-8 per blue (< 1% per).

However, as to you agreeing with Hrann, that basically means you really are saying "If you can't muster the will to play at 65 like you can at 60, then you won't get AA as fast", however you can replace any two levels 51+ with that and get the same answer.  This is still the problem I've had with the claim since the beginning.

I'll say this one last time...you cannot peg people based on "motivation" and "desire", then claim it can be applied universally.  It cannot.

[ghostryder]

Of course nothing is absolute- people play different of course, have differrent goals ect- All i'm saying is AA intake for most I see, including myself, everyone in my guild I pay attention to (it's a large guild but my inner group of friends) almost everyone's AA intake slows a lot overall at 65-

And again, when solo the 60 will outpace the 65 in AA as well, as in a situation such as AC, where the 60 is outside the castle and the 65 is inside the castle-

but as mentioned it's rare for a 65 to even go there unless after a certain drop- and that's not usually for cash but to perhaps get it for a friend (most lvl65's have little need for cash if they raid)

Overall raiding, getting flagged or camping for key components (like in SR temple) is not only terrible AA experience but probably ammounts to at least 50 percent of a 65's time.

But of course, if someone ignores raiding and getting flagged, lives in PoE inner or somewhere his intire 65 career then the original statement of AAs come faster at 65 would hold true-

course that has to be one rare and bored player I've yet come across-

20 sec's, 37 secs or whatever the number crunching grims do give over 1% and do not light blue til 61- at 60 all are still dark blue- the above poster is incorrect- and is probably measuring his AAs at 61 when they start to slow down (but are still decent) and yes, 2 rooms and the hall will give enough mobs on 2 cycles for an AA-

[Lacerate]

grims do give over 1% and do not light blue til 61- at 60 all are still dark blue- the above poster is incorrect

I feel qualified to refute that as I spent a large portion of earning 91 AA soloing AC at 60 (was waiting for friends to level alts). Thanatos is correct in stating ~1/3 are light blue at 60 and your average BST is going to get 1AA for 2 hours. In contrast I can roughly do the same rate in Nurga at 65.

[Thanatos]

20 sec's, 37 secs or whatever the number crunching grims do give over 1% and do not light blue til 61- at 60 all are still dark blue- the above poster is incorrect- and is probably measuring his AAs at 61 when they start to slow down (but are still decent) and yes, 2 rooms and the hall will give enough mobs on 2 cycles for an AA-

I am definately correct in stating that some Grimlings go light blue at 60.  I half toyed with the idea of dropping back down to 59, figuring I may be able to increase my AAXP per hour by fighting all dark blues.  However, with all the power upgrades we get at 60, it just wasn't worth it.

Your arguement just lost a lot of force.  If you have done all the AA's you said you have in Acrylia at 60, then you wouldn't make the mistake of thinking that all the grimlings are still dark blue.

And at 60, I"ve cleared the hall, the ritualist room, and the primalist room (not always the bugs though).  You get approximately 50% from two clearings (1 hours worth of work), so 4 cycles for an AA (2 hours), not 2 cycles (1 hour).  Maybe you were much more Uber than I was at 60, but I doubt it because I have most of the high end bazaar gear and a whole bunch of tribute (41% haste, fungi, DFC, etc...)

[ghostryder]

I feel qualified to refute that as I spent a large portion of earning 91 AA soloing AC at 60 (was waiting for friends to level alts). Thanatos is correct in stating ~1/3 are light blue at 60 and your average BST is going to get 1AA for 2 hours. In contrast I can roughly do the same rate in Nurga at 65.

I'm not interested in spitting hairs on whether or not its light blue or blue- but let me ask you this- if you stayed 60 long enough to get those 91 AAs in AC then you likely also got a lot of other thing accomplished as well as far as bazaar purchases or spell purchases.

So the question is now at 65 how long does it take you overall to get those same 91 AAs? And what else, if anything, are you getting done-

Answer it honestly and you have to agree if time equals bang for buck its a lot sweeter at 60.

Sure, you can do good in Nurga, but what are you doing there at 65? Are you staying for any length of time?

In the end at 65 your likely never accomplish those 91 AAs at that rate nor get the other benefits of the loot as well.

[Thanatos]

At 60 you can get an AA every 2 hours solo in Acrylia (note: this doesn't take into account that every 2 hours you have to leave and sell/bank to empty your bags before you come back ).  Maybe slightly faster if you are reallyl uber.  There are sweet spots like Acrylia where you can accomplish this AND make a lot of cash at the same time to buy equipment upgrades with.

At 65 you can get an AA every 2 hours solo in places like Nurga.  Possibly faster elsewhere.  You can definately get much faster AA's in groups in BoT or Elemental planes.

So, you can get some great AA's done before 65.  I don't think anyone is refuting that.  What they are refuting is your exxageration of the rate (one hour / aa is NOT doable at 60, solo).  If I was getting an AA every hour in Acrylia at 60, I'd still be level 60 and raking in more cash and AA's.  After all, there are still a few upgrades left for me in the baz (Narandi's helm for one :))

[Chubaka]

In Griegs and Sirens I get 1aa every 1h 40min with our gimped OH-DA.  Should be faster when that is fixed.

Base mobs in both places are solid 1.5% each.  They take ~1 minute to die.  Only need 67 mobs to get an AA.  67 minutes of killing,  33 minutes of buffing, down time (nil with KEI, Baleful, Paragon) afk, nosepicking, and the double kill times on named.

[ghostryder]

I never like sirens- nore greigs for that matter-in fact most Luclin zones are downright aweful for XP with the exception of AC, PC and the city killing guards - which is also great XP but if I remember right they light blue pretty early like 56-57.

Aside from farming the epic pieces who would spend time in the grey or elsewhere?

What's really wierd is go into a zone without air and there's no XP bonus as well- used to be underwater zones was the best xp bonus but that's all changed now as well-

It's a shame it's more a matter of what zone your in rather than the toughness of the mobs your killing- I mean, geos in WL are downright hard as well as the sentients to take down yet the XP there is downright aweful.

AC is one of the few places one can go to farm and at least get XP- and though at 65 there's better farm places that earring in the castle can bring 30k- the SK shield 18k and the 2 swords 10K and 15k- and a 65 can get all 4 pretty easily solo in a night- not a bad nights work at all.

PoG at one time was soloable and 15k per hour in gem drops was sweet as well til they changed the argo - but at one time a 65 (even a 62) could sit at the west wall and pull with little worry if you used our pet's snare- and remembered to bring a gate potion. I once helped a cleric raise 100K there for a spell buy in 2 nights- but those days are gone now. :(