Omens spell issues...

[flush]

SOE needs to do something aside from addressing the main BST issues (aggro, etc)

The spell list is a rehash of the same old stuff.

I don't know how long they think they can keep milking cash out of players when they are several upcoming MMORPGs (and you know those contenders will try their best to cash in on the traditional xmas season)

Why am I buying OoW? as a solution to my current problems (extra buff slots, extra spell slot). I want to be motivated to buy a new expansion because it offers cool stuff. Not same shit, different day.

Know why I have Bestial Alignment rank 1 AA? because I simply maxed out on saved AA and needed to spend something fast. Can't tell what it does on me besides shake my screen a lot when it is triggered.

Okay, so no SLTW? group haste then and I cannot understand how we do not have group Kragg by now?

What about a spell that gives us an innate proc? like PAL, SK, RNG?

To make it stackable with the BSS/SV/SoT series, how about +25 avoidance, +10 combat effects, +5 dmg, +5 dmg shield, proc 200dd (either cold/poison/disease) and base duration of 1 hour minimum.

Aside from the one other melee in my group, chances are I want to cast fero on the main tank group, so limiting group ferocity to self-group insta-gimps the spell.

[Rarrum]

Main things I'd like to see in our spells right now, is the upgrades to sd and ferocity improved, and a new unique debuff.  Our only 2 debuff lines (slow and incapacitate) are covered by 2 other classes better (3 if you count necro's 70% slow on undead).  On raids with any decent number of shaman and enchanters, we have nothing to contribute debuff-wise that will last more than 8 seconds before being ovveriden.

I'd like to see a debuff like "Increase melee damage taken by 6%" or similar.  This would help increase beastlord's raid demand slightly (right now many raiding guilds only want 1-2 bst, and just for sd).  It would also give us something "neat" in our spell line, which is sorely missing right now.

[CillianFV]

Ok, I am just going to comment on the use of damage mods and avoidance mods at this time, although I do agree upon all the issues that Tastian stated in his first post.

It is my understanding that these mods are to be used in place of stat buffs for those who are at stat caps as follows:

damage mod replaces strength buff
avoidance mod replaces agility buff

Now first up, let me state that I believe that we should not have any modifier buffs that can be cast on others.  This would bring us too close to shamans in my opinion.  We should be pulling back from the buffing role a bit for the sake of class balance.  I think mods on pet only buffs or self only buffs are ok though.

We really should not get any avoidance mods at all.  We never have had any real agility buffs before so I don't see why we should now.  The only exception to this is the Frenzy line which I will talk about later.

The reason why the new Ferocity spell does not have a damage mod is simple, Ferocity has never had a strength buff component.  The way the stamina component is at the moment is a bit flawed.  If we look at the new Shaman stamina buffs they are something like this:

Slot Description
1:  Increase STA by 75
12:  Stats Cap(40)

If the stats cap line does what I think it does, this would be a good addition to the Ferocity upgrade.  Keeping Ferocity up is pretty intensive so I don't think it would ever replace a shaman's long duration stamina buff.  I also agree that the resist portion needs some sort of upgrade.

I think an upgraded Frenzy spell could be made that would be very useful to Beastlords.  Since it is self only we can use mods and not infringe on Shamen.  Also, instead of a dexterity increase of questionable use, I have included a scaled down version of the "Chance to Critical Hit" mod that Enchanters have on their new hastes.  It would probably be something along the lines of:

Slot Description
3:  Increase AC by 18
5:  Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 4%
6:  Increase Damage Modifier by 3%
7:  Chance to Critical Hit(10)

Now I know this is not as powerful of a spell as some would like but I don't want to go overboard because I am not sure how much impact these mods have in game.

The idea of another combined self buff, conceptually the same as the Ranger one, is an interesting idea but I need to give it more thought though.

[Gudaman]

Personal i don't mind the pet spells much i wish they would up the duration thou.

As for our spirtual line it's not just us but druids are getting the 1 mana shaft also but at least their buff is more then just regen.  Saddly it doesn't surprise me that sony would give us a spell to cast that is same duration 1 mana and hp regen a tick for a extra 106 mana.

What i'm surprised nobody else has mentioned is about this regen spell they are giveing us at level 69

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5536&source=Test

I'm not sure about everybody else but a 30 hp a tick single target regen doesn't make me look foward to wasteing a rune to get this spell. Nor any regen spell other then our spirtual line.


As for the fero spell upgrade maybe they don't want to hit a attack buff cap or afraid the servers will crash if somebody has too much attack but as this spell stands now i will scribe it on page 50 in my spell book. More attack, more resist would maybe make this acceptable like 190 atk and 90 resist  and 60 sta and this could be called imo a acceptable upgrade.

Last thing i can think of that i don't understand is when are we gonna get a non componet levation.

RNG/39 DRU/14 SHM/14 WIZ/24 ENC/16 BST/39

all other class's that have this spell some point in another has gotten one where is ours.

[Dummkopf]

SA needs to be 11/11 and long enough to fit the mgb timer, our Fero upgrade should up the resits to at least 70, better 75, a +damage mod is something i want to see as well, after all the aim of that spell seems to be to increase dps.

Our currently 2 level 66 spells are both nearly unusable, if i dont use a 9 s cast healing of sorsha i wont use a 9s cast healing of mikkily. Our current dots already have too high aggro to use 2 of them on raids, even one gets me aggro normally. So a new dot with even higher poison counters will be only usable in a solo situation or if you're the tank for your group.

What i would like to see is a haste spell with a way longer duration, doesnt really have to be an upgrade in the haste part, just the duration would be fine.

A new slow with a built-in resist modifier is something we need as well, probably countered by a slightly slower cast time (up to 4 s). If you think that would be better than a shaman slow, check out Balance of the Nihil. We already have a big disatvantage without any kind of MR-debuff, so why not give a small resist adjust to a new slow.

I agree with Urim here, a self only buff with some nice things like avoidance or damage mod (or even double-attack mod) and the same limits Frenzy has would be nice indeed.

What we really need, at least those of us who raid a lot, is a jolt type spell, it should be ice based and lower aggro considerably.

[cougerofeq]

Before SD, Ferocity and slow or their iterations, we were un-wanted and un-needed. We need to have these improved and I could care less what the other classes think as they surely could care less what we think of what they get in the expansion.

We have the lowest DPS of the melee, worst pet of the 3 pet classes, poor buffs( since we are a hybrid), leather protection... and excel at nothing. The above 3 spells is what makes us hated by all others and makes us of value for the most part - lets see some upgrades there as we can't be hated much more.



PS didnt they say a year ago we were due some extra AAs since we missed a set and have fewer than the other classes?

[Oneiromancer]

PS didnt they say a year ago we were due some extra AAs since we missed a set and have fewer than the other classes?

We definitely don't have fewer than all other classes:

http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2519

AAs span a pretty wide range so it's not really a valid argument.

Game on,

[cougerofeq]

But didn't they say just that a year ago? And it was refering to more skills, not a higher costs per AA skill. Seems like we missed a set of AAs because we were not in existance for some of the earlier expansions as I recall.


In that thread 2 AAs or skills at 20pts each = 4 AAs or skills at 5pts each. Not really the same issue.

Sorry if I wasnt clear - we use the term AAs for points spent and for the skills we buy - gets confusing.

[Bengali]

What about Swift like the Wind (at 66/67) and SCRM AA?
or even better, group kragg and talisman of alacrity (at 68/69)

If shaman don't get new, improved haste, neither should we.

Why should we only get improvements to existing spell lines if shamans also get them?  It's not like it works the other way around and when shamans get improvements then we keep pace -- i.e., they've gotten new slows when we haven't and new cures when we haven't and new stat buffs when we haven't.

I'm not saying we should get swift like the wind or whatever was suggested, but I don't think it's fair that our upgrades have to be tied to what shamans get in a given expansion (which of course is different than considering whether a proposed abiity for bsts would unduly upset the relative balance between the two, which is perfectly fair to consider)

[Skratchen]

What about Swift like the Wind (at 66/67) and SCRM AA?
or even better, group kragg and talisman of alacrity (at 68/69)

If shaman don't get new, improved haste, neither should we.

Why should we only get improvements to existing spell lines if shamans also get them?

Amen.   Sometimes moderators act like they're also SOE developers and think that they know what's best for everyone.  To be fair though, I think Tast does a good job and this sounds a little cliche'd, but I think he does think outside the box and doesn't totally limit our class of choice by supposed boundries of our parent classes(whatever that means anymore...)

[Bengali]

Amen.   Sometimes moderators act like they're also SOE developers and think that they know what's best for everyone.

All Rhaynne did was express her opinion, which is exactly what any of the rest of us do.  Pretty much everyone who posts here does so because they think their idea is "what's best for everyone."   Moderator status shouldn't count against someone -- it's not like Rhaynne edited or locked anyone's post because they disagreed with her or criticized her point.

[Skratchen]

Amen.   Sometimes moderators act like they're also SOE developers and think that they know what's best for everyone.

All Rhaynne did was express her opinion, which is exactly what any of the rest of us do.  Pretty much everyone who posts here does so because they think their idea is "what's best for everyone."   Moderator status shouldn't count against someone -- it's not like Rhaynne edited or locked anyone's post because they disagreed with her or criticized her point.

I just noticed a certain pattern in her posts and it jumped out at me as being somewhat snippety with regards to her replies to posts where she disagreed with other posters.  Of course, I could be totally wrong.  Sometimes words on the internet don't always accurately convey someone's exact intentions or feelings.  If that's the case, I'll stand corrected.

[Rhaynne]

I just noticed a certain pattern in her posts and it jumped out at me as being somewhat snippety with regards to her replies to posts where she disagreed with other posters

And what, exactly, does that have to do with me being a moderator?  I've always been blunt to the point of abrasive when I have had strong feelings on a subject.

I try to to look at things as a whole, not just from the angle of what would serve us best.  Our non-pet bassed spells lines are based off our shaman parents' spell line.  I don't think our spells should be the equal of shaman spells, so I don't see a new haste or a new slow as reasonable requests if the shaman aren't also getting upgraded versions.

[Bengali]

I try to to look at things as a whole, not just from the angle of what would serve us best.  Our non-pet bassed spells lines are based off our shaman parents' spell line.  I don't think our spells should be the equal of shaman spells, so I don't see a new haste or a new slow as reasonable requests if the shaman aren't also getting upgraded versions.

I don't think a lot of our spells should equal shaman spells either, but that doesn't mean they can't get upgraded in some way.  Also, shamans got a slow upgrade last expansion and we didn't, so if we get one this expansion and they don't (although they seem to be getting a PB slow this expansion) it does not *necessarily* mean that we are equaling or surpassing them.  Also, in previous expansions shamans have had two upgrades to our one, which again isn't a bad thing, but that means that it might not be the end of the world if several expansions later we get an upgrade to a particular line and they don't happen to get one.

To be more specific, suppose we got a group haste spell with 40% haste and a 36 minute duration.  Mind you, I don't want that spell at all but I'm speaking theoretically.  That would be us getting a "haste upgrade" at a time when shamans are not getting one, but it would in no way infringe on shamans.  In fact, we would have a short duration single target haste and a longer duration group haste with a lesser haste effect, which makes us no better or worse than shamans are with Swift like the Wind and Talisman of Alacrity.

That's what I mean when I say that it doesn't make much sense to me to only upgrade our spells lines if shamans also get one because the upgrades aren't in step as it is, and there's no reason that it should always be one way.  If shamans got a haste upgrade for the next 4 expansions and we didn't, and the 5th one they decide to skip the haste upgrade for shamans, does that still mean beastlords can't get a haste upgrade, even if it's still behind what shamans got before?

If we got a single target 55% haste this expansion with a 36 minute duration, Swift Like the wind would still be preferred by every melee who didn't have at least 45% haste (which is the vast majority of them).  And while we would gain some ground in terms of duration, shamans already have a huge advantage in being able to get buff extension items more easily and SCRM.   You could also make the new 55% haste less mana efficent so that the additional duration didn't amount to any additional mana savings over a shaman who had to cast SLTW more often (whether you account for specialization or not).

But my example of 55% haste is an actual power increase over Celerity, meaning that a beastlord who has it is actually able to boost his or her group to a greater extent than a beastlord with Celerity can do.  By contrast if we got "group celerity," no one would be able to tell the difference between a level 67-68 beastlord casting haste and a level 63 beastlord casting it.  It would just be more convenient (although possibly more wasteful, since you don't always need to haste an entire group anyway -- i.e., if you only have 2 melees in a group then group celerity would probably cost you more mana than the single target one).

To me, it would be like if Spiritual Ascendence did nothing but upgrade the duration and possibly lower the mana cost, so it was a massive upgrade in mana efficiency but otherwise was no different from Spiritual Dominion.  I certainly wouldn't feel like that was much of an upgrade.

[Rhaynne]

By contrast if we got "group celerity," no one would be able to tell the difference between a level 67-68 beastlord casting haste and a level 63 beastlord casting it.

I'd love a group haste... however, Talisman of Alacrity IS group celerity.  By giving us that we'd be directly stepping on shaman toes.  Your suggestion of a group 40% haste spell?  That's not bad.