Aggro issues?

Kanan · July 27, 2006, 01:45:33 PM

most rogues have a fairly significant learning curve upon getting their 2.0.

I know I've seen the post on steel warrior that said that it just mattered on swings, but I'd also heard that it was figured on the max potential damage from the swings.

I guess I actually do have a small agro issue at times. I always joke with the pullers about it, but it feels so often, that when they are pulling a mob into camp, and I have my back to it and am beating on another mob or nuking, the agro will come onto me. It is often quite brief, but its annoying. Once got me killed half a dozen times way back when in VT ;p

I think its just monk's jealousy over not having pets ;p

Zathrix · July 31, 2006, 01:10:42 PM

Okay, I'm going to admit I didn't read every post, so this may have been addressed already, but there is a flip side to the agro question. I would gladly spend a pretty good number of AA points for Taunt, and I don't see that it would somehow be considered overpowering the class. Taunt may not have been part of the concept for a leather wearing class, but I end up trying to peel things off the casters regularly. Please tell the Devs that if Beastlords are stupid enough to taunt things to attack them and ignore others they should be allowed to. Would make a great AA for the new expansion. (I know, proabably a bit late mentioning it.)

recoil silverclaws · July 31, 2006, 05:37:47 PM

Honestly we dont need it nore should have a taunt type of aa. If a beast wants to have agro you can get it allmost as fast as a paly if you cant damg a mob spam our slow and incapsitat spells for great none damg agro, if you can damg it our snap agro can be even better because we can hit two or three very fast nukes (depending on what you like to keep up at all times) slow, incap and our rake disc. But for the most part we are not a knight class and while we do tank prity well when we have the right aa's and effects (avoidence for the win !!) we are far from a off tank,that is for knights and war's to do and i know i for one would not want to here the bitching from knights if that where to happen.

jitathab · August 01, 2006, 12:13:05 PM

We cant take hits better than any other class that uses mellee weapons. We are quite simply a horrendous mana sponge. If BSTS's get taunt the wizards should get taunt.
At the moment both classes gain agro by using spells, and both can stand there and "tank" while rapidly using up a healers mana.

Zathrix · August 01, 2006, 03:19:29 PM

As a clarification, I wasn't thinking of raid situations. Recoil is correct, if you have fifty or so people you will likely have plenty of Knights who are much better suited to off tanking than is a Beastlord. Jitathab too is correct, Beastlords will be much more a "mana sponge" than would a plate class or a chain class if equipped at similar levels. But some of us do other things than raid. Sometimes we don't even hunt in full groups and if the one and only tank is already tanking and something is beating on the cleric most of them won't complain that the Beastlord that peels the mob off 'em is a mana sponge.

jitathab · August 01, 2006, 10:03:12 PM

Ok instant peel, Cast FoL tell cleric to move :)

recoil silverclaws · August 01, 2006, 11:02:55 PM

dident mean to make it sound like we should never ever off tank we do do a good job at that just saying it is not a focus for our class nor should it be, just a added bonus to what we can bring to a group.

Rhoam · August 02, 2006, 04:10:06 PM

Well, I can see how a casual non-raiding beast might want taunt in group format and I can see how a raiding beast would have absolutely no use for taunt. Personally, I dont think we will ever get taunt. While we can tank if appropriately AA'd and geared, we arent a tanking class per se. Nor do I believe we really need taunt. If you have to work harder than casting FOL or incap on a mob to get its attention, then the mob either has blood agro or the caster/healer has done something so wrong that he/she needs to learn to never do that again. I find that I can get agro off a caster/healer with incap or FOL or even one use of rake now. I am reluctant to use rake if we have a mezzing class in grp for obvious reasons.

We arent a traditional tanking class. We arent part warrior as Rangers and Paladins are. So we have no business getting taunt., nor do I want a taunt button. We can do just fine with the abilities we have in this regard. Now if SOE wants to up our DPS or increase our mitigation back to where it was, that would be just fine by me.

Ikkorus · August 02, 2006, 05:30:25 PM

Quote from: Rhoam on August 02, 2006, 04:10:06 PM
Well, I can see how a casual non-raiding beast might want taunt in group format and I can see how a raiding beast would have absolutely no use for taunt. Personally, I dont think we will ever get taunt. While we can tank if appropriately AA'd and geared, we arent a tanking class per se. Nor do I believe we really need taunt. If you have to work harder than casting FOL or incap on a mob to get its attention, then the mob either has blood agro or the caster/healer has done something so wrong that he/she needs to learn to never do that again. I find that I can get agro off a caster/healer with incap or FOL or even one use of rake now. I am reluctant to use rake if we have a mezzing class in grp for obvious reasons.

We arent a traditional tanking class. We arent part warrior as Rangers and Paladins are. So we have no business getting taunt., nor do I want a taunt button. We can do just fine with the abilities we have in this regard. Now if SOE wants to up our DPS or increase our mitigation back to where it was, that would be just fine by me.

You're right we arent part warrior were supposed to be part monk...though you'd never know it based on our DPS compared to theirs.

laissez · August 23, 2006, 04:16:46 PM

In group content, when i'm slowing i can useally time it right so i don't get agro too much, if i'm not slowing its a rareity that i'll even graze the hott window. Tho what i have found to be a nuisenece in during raid content when i go balls to the wall, pull out all the stops to burn the mob down, When i go 1k+ dps i'll always grab agro from a 2.0 bbob war useally around 10% right when enrage hits (hehe killed a few ppl on that). Even with throwing in a rot around 20% it doesn't do much to help. 2250 less agro seems like alot but its not. I really wish there was something i could use so i could go balls to the wall if i wanted to and not have to worry about taking agro from the MT after 3-4mins.

Shieara · August 24, 2006, 02:13:26 PM

No aggro issues here unless I am grouped with people that are well below my character and/or gear level.

Holding aggro can be more of a challenge since the dot change, but as long as the group is "briefed" on FoL and how it works it is not a problem.

Now gimme more dps!

Denti · August 24, 2006, 08:35:09 PM

Quite a bit of aggro issues, however i use a big proc weapon as mainhand (yet again...). Cannot say about groups since i am aa maxed for a bit now and therefore dont xp group, before that i usually tanked in pick up grouped or had guild knights who dont have any aggro issues. Warriors on raids however do not generate enough aggro, tank switches are especially fatal.

Doomringer · August 25, 2006, 03:14:14 AM

In raiding situations I have absolutely no problems with the way aggro is set up at all. I never get aggro and I can go 100% even to the point of being wreckless. I have been parsed at the very top in guild for DPS and did not get aggro once.

In groups however I do have a problem getting snap aggro. Spamming spells is not snap aggro that is building aggro. snap aggro is like in the old days when you could cast your piddly 3 sec dot and have all the attention you could handle. Now days you have to spam slows, incapacitate (happens to be the best IMO) and nukes. VERY mana intensive.

I would like to have the ability to get a mob's attention and right away. I don't like FOL in groups for snap aggro because unless you are standing next to the mob you are going to have problems. And if you run there that takes time and snap aggro is all about not taking up time. \

Holding aggro when I am a tank is really easy I usually slow the mob on inc by /assist puller and then follow up immediately with an incap. and maybe a self heal to help the healer and a rake. Then I just sit back and pound on the mob till it dies regening mana the rest of the fight. I know folks are like "we aren't tanks and we will never be good tanks" I can think of a few situations where we are close to the best tanks out there. I can solo in the first castle in Plane of Fire for hours without casting a single heal....can a warrior do that? Maybe an elite warrior can do that appropriately equipped...however any avg lvl 70 Beast with healing AA's and LT weapons can do it.

So in the end of this rambling, I just want some snap aggro ability. Incap works ok most of the time but it gets tricky when there are chanters around and boy talk about a class with aggro issues. ( sometimes ) Don't call it taunt, don't make it mana free, don't make it a disc, just some stupid spell that makes the mob love you like fat ladies love ice cream.

Doom

laissez · August 25, 2006, 04:27:45 PM

When i'm tanking (which i do quite a bit of) i have absolutely no problems with agro, its gotten to the point where i would ask a rng or SK to try to tank agro from me, most of the time i could hold it down off the SK, if he wasn't taunting, almost all the time i could hold it from the rng. Myself i use a wide range of slows DD blinds debuffs aa's disc to hold agro, and from what ive seen there isn't much out there that can out agro a bst, as far as snap agro there is no reason we should need it cuase if we know were gonna tank we should be tagging it on inc.

Doomringer · August 26, 2006, 03:46:42 AM

Quoteas far as snap agro there is no reason we should need it cuase if we know were gonna tank we should be tagging it on inc.

I disagree whole heartedly with this comment. Snap agro has nothing to do with tanking. It has to do with OT'ing and you cannot be an effective OT unless you can get control of a mob very quickly.

Let's say you are doing a hard DoD mission and your chanter has a mob under mez the mob breaks mez and you do the right thing and watch the chanter get beat down trying to re mez while stunned. The cleric pops a quick heal but the chanter goes down anyway. The mob then rushes the cleric...how many rounds is the cleric going to last on a mob that is hitting for over 1.2K?

You don't have time to cancel heal aggro by spamming spells. You have one shot at getting the attention of that mob. If you don't succeed you break out with your mighty Beast heals and try to keep yourself and your group alive and OT that thing till your group rescues you. Then you wait for the cleric to run back and rez you. In reality most times a group will wipe in a situation like that.

If you do gain the attention of that mob quickly, you can slow it and help out the cleric by spam healing yourself and holding aggro with conventional means and await the tank to come in and steal your glory.