Anyone know for a fact what removes his AE dot? I have heard a rumor that only Remove Curse will fix it, not RGC or Pureblood. Can anyone verify?
Thanks
Dispel magic.
It's not worth the effort though. That is a burn down fight.
Elemental Judgment (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3155)
It does not have any counters so there are no counters for Remove Greater Curse or Pure Blood to remove. The only things that will remove it are those that have remove detritmental, which are:
Radiant Cure (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3299&source=Live)
Purify Soul (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2742&source=Live)
Don't rely on dispell, either. By the time the randomness removes the debuff, it'd be on you again.
Just throw everything and the kitchen sink at him. We have tried max range, we have tried dispelling, we have tried maxing resists. The best thing that works is kill him and kill him fast.
I have to laugh at our first and only attempt to kill him so far. We were running though the caves and opps a wizard hit wrong key and evacced their group to the zone in. Needless to say our guild leader was less than impressed. But then when were were actually in the fight he was botting a druid and went to hit ae wood and missed and he succored his group to the zone in. :D
Oh you should be able to resist the AoE 95% of the time if you can max your MR 500. Try get over 400 if you can with buffs and Fero and hopefully the bard MR resist will get you to 500.
I hardly get the AoE as long as my MR stays at 500.
Thanks for all your help. The main reason why I asked was so we can figure out how to cure our MA, to try and help the agro ping pong, since the AE is also a slow, the tank loses agro. My GF, who is a druid, was put on chaining RGC on the MA, but it didn't cure, so we were confused why. Now we know.
I believe that resists only need to be around 230 before a bard's song will get you to 500 with ae song. Thats the number stuck in my head from Bert and TT from Time at least. I could be off, but its close to 230.
Resists can go higher than 500... alot higher. They just aren't shown. This makes a huge difference when fighting mobs with massive resist adjusts.
is it true that resist over 500 while not shown on the user interface, DO actually do something? someone has proven it somewhere?
No, it's hard capped at 500.
It's hard capped at 500, but it's unclear that having resists over that are useless.
For example, stamina is capped at 305, but if you get hit with an AE that is -100 to stamina it doesn't mean that you automatically only have 205 stamina. If your stamina would be 400 from gear and buffs (but 95 points are wasted because of the "hard cap"), then the AE will only bump you down to 300.
While resists are hard capped at 500, all that definitely means is that the game calculations will never use a number greater than 500 as part of the formula that determines whether you resist something.
If, however, you would have 600 resists in something and you are hit with an AE that has a -100 mod, it hasn't yet been shown whether the game treats your save as 500 (600-100) or as 400 (500-100).
Sometimes people say on a certain encounter that resists were useless because they still got hit with a certain AE (with say, a -300 mod) even at 500, while others say that they resisted all or most of the AE at 500. One reason could simply be the RNG. Another could be that one person was barely at 500, while the other person was way over.
Every other skill and stat is hard capped, I wouldn't see why resists would be any different. When you have a resist debuff and go below 0, you have a negative resist check. Does this mean the spells land on you easier? No, it'll land on you as if you were at zero since the resists bottom at 0, stats bottom at 1. Currently anything over 305/355 stats is useless until you are debuffed. Any resist over 500 is useless until you are debuffed. It's evident when you have high resists with gear, ferocity, any bard resist song, and any resist buffs. Those who have been farming Quarm for 1+ year can tell you having "700-800" in resists doesn't make them resist any of the AEs any better than being near 500.
Quote from: DerrictEvery other skill and stat is hard capped, I wouldn't see why resists would be any different. When you have a resist debuff and go below 0, you have a negative resist check. Does this mean the spells land on you easier? No, it'll land on you as if you were at zero since the resists bottom at 0, stats bottom at 1.
You're talking about two different things. For example I could say, "every resist debuff subtracts from the total resists you have, even if you only have 500 showing, so I don't see why negative resist mods would be any different."
Like I said before, the fact that things are capped means that the game will never use a number less than 0 or greater than 500 to determine whether a spell lands. That is a completely different question than what happens when you are hit with a -100 mod spell -- THAT question is: "what is the 100 subtracted from?"
Quote from: DerrictCurrently anything over 305/355 stats is useless until you are debuffed. Any resist over 500 is useless until you are debuffed. It's evident when you have high resists with gear, ferocity, any bard resist song, and any resist buffs.
The operative phrase is "untill you are debuffed". We can all agree that if you have 600 MR the game caps you at 500. We can also agree that if you get hit with tash and lose 50 MR,
you'll still be at 500, because the game effectively subtracts the tash from your total MR, even those that are not displayed. So the question is,
does the game calculate the effect of a resist mod the same way it calculates the effect of a resist debuff? (with the difference of course being that one is just a spell-specific check and the other is a lasting effect)
If the answer to that question is yes, then having resists over the cap will make a difference. I honestly don't know the answer, but I don't think anyone really does since they haven't actually tested it and instead go with gut feelings and assumptions.
Quote from: DerrictThose who have been farming Quarm for 1+ year can tell you having "700-800" in resists doesn't make them resist any of the AEs any better than being near 500.
Farming Quarm doesn't have much to do with it since Quarm isn't the only mob with negative resist mods. Quarm also is not an ideal example because he is a level 80 mob, and has a high chance to land spells on you similarly to the way you have a high chance to land spells on a level 50 mob, and resists therefore matter less on him than on other mobs.
As for what people can "tell you", my point is that really doesn't amount to much because no one has really done a valid test to really get to the bottom of it. Rhaynne , for example, "tells you" something that is the opposite of what you say, and she's been farming Quarm longer than I have. Similarly, I could "tell you" that back in my elemental farming days (ah, memories) when I was able to get my cold resists very high (400+ pre-bardsong) I resisted lots of Grioihin the Wise's AE, which has a -350 mod, whereas some guildmates who were barely at 500 will "tell you" they got hit by it every time.
But none of that is really scientific information, which is why I said that no one has proven it either way.
That is a completely different question than what happens when you are hit with a -100 mod spell -- THAT question is: "what is the 100 subtracted from?"
If you have 800 svm and get howl of tashan (neg 50 svm), your resist check will still be 500 since it's capped and the debuff isn't enough to take you under 500. It's subtracted from the stat as if there was no cap, so it'd be 800 less 50, giving you "750 svm" but due to the cap you're at 500 svm.
In places like Uqua, you can have 400 str (305 displayed) and the debuff takes you down to 150 str. Aura of destruction has a neg 250 debuff to str/sta/dex/agi, neg 100 to wis and int, neg 300 atk, etc. and takes into account the excess you have over the cap. Like with resist debuffs, the debuff is taken from the stat as if there was no cap.
Quote from: DerrictThat is a completely different question than what happens when you are hit with a -100 mod spell -- THAT question is: "what is the 100 subtracted from?"
If you have 800 svm and get howl of tashan (neg 50 svm), your resist check will still be 500 since it's capped and the debuff isn't enough to take you under 500. It's subtracted from the stat as if there was no cap, so it'd be 800 less 50, giving you "750 svm" but due to the cap you're at 500 svm.
In places like Uqua, you can have 400 str (305 displayed) and the debuff takes you down to 150 str. Aura of destruction has a neg 250 debuff to str/sta/dex/agi, neg 100 to wis and int, neg 300 atk, etc. and takes into account the excess you have over the cap. Like with resist debuffs, the debuff is taken from the stat as if there was no cap.
That's pretty much exactly what I said. Twice.
All I'm saying is: what if an AE with a -250 resist mod works the same way? That would mean that it would be better to go way over the cap instead of being barely at it, which is
exactly the point that Rhaynne and I are making:Quote from: RhaynneResists can go higher than 500... alot higher. They just aren't shown. This makes a huge difference when fighting mobs with massive resist adjusts.
I don't think we're actually in disagreement on anything. ;)
I believe that if you are hit with an effect that appears in the buff box and actually modifes the numbers shown then having over 500 does help. I don't believe that it makes any difference if you are hit by a spell that has a neg resist check built into it.
Example 1. You have 800 resist and are hit with a debuff for 300. You will still resist as if you have 500.
Example 2. You have 800 resists and are hit with a dd with a neg 300 resist. You resist as if you have 200.
I believe that is the way its works.
It could work that way, or it could work the other way.
No one has actually tested it though, which is the main point I'm trying to get across. Some people believe one thing, some believe another. But without some actual answers its silly to say that it's useless to have resists over 500 *or* that they definitely make a difference against spells with negative resist mods. You might as well be arguing over how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
Devs have stated that having anything over 500 will make no difference in resist rates. It will only have a factor when you are debuffed. If resist checks went over 500, what's the point of having a cap.
Quote from: DerrictDevs have stated that having anything over 500 will make no difference in resist rates. It will only have a factor when you are debuffed. If resist checks went over 500, what's the point of having a cap.
No one is saying resist checks go over 500. No one. If you have 700 resists, the game checks you at 500. If you have 600 resists, the game checks you at 500. If you have 800 resists, the game checks you at 500. If you have 700 resists and are malo'ed then the game still checks you at 500. Everyone here seems to agree with this point although for some reason you keep posting as if they don't.
Everyone also agrees that if you are debuffed, then the game will take into account the resists that you have over 500, but ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERMINING WHAT YOUR "FINAL" NUMBER IS. It still won't ever make a check with a number that's higher than 500. If you have 700 resists, and are debuffed for -100, you'll still make checks at 500.
CONCLUSION: RESIST CHECKS ARE "CAPPED" AT 500. THERE SIMPLY IS NO SITUATION WHERE THE GAME WILL USE A NUMBER GREATER THAN 500 IN DETERMINING WHETHER A SPELL LANDS ON YOU.
So what is the issue about?
The issue is that some people believe that a NEGATIVE RESIST MOD TO A SPELL WORKS LIKE AN INSTANT DURATION DEBUFF. No one has proven it does; no one has proven it doesn't. Some people disagree of course, and until someone tests it we honestly won't know for sure. But it means that IF resists over 500 matter "when you are debuffed" (which you concede) AND if negative resist mods are calculated the same way an "instant debuff" would be (which is purely theoretical, but worth exploring), THEN resists over 500 would matter ONLY for spells with negative resist mods and negative resist debuffs.
When the devs said resists over 500 didn't make a difference on "resist rates" you realize that they weren't necessarily talking about negative resist mods, right?
When Chromatic Disruption (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2990&source=Live) hits you, the game makes a calculation. It has to subtract 120 from your resists and determine a new number for you. It will subtract 120 from your total resist (even if you only have 500 displayed) and then display a new number, except it will still cap the final number at 500.
When Aura of Fear (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3760&source=Live) hits you, the game also makes a calculation. It has to subtract 150 from your poison resist, but only to figure out whether the spell will land on you. It is POSSIBLE that it does the same thing that Chromatic Disruption does -- which is subtract 150 from your total poison resist (even if you only have 500 displayed) and then use a new number, except IF THAT NEW NUMBER IS GREATER THAN 500 THEN IT WILL "CAP" THE NUMBER AT 500 FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING THE CHECK.
It is also POSSIBLE that when Aura of Fear hits you, it subtracts the 150 from whatever you have displayed, so that there is no difference between having 500 poison resist and 650 poison resist.
It would be nice if we actually figured out what the answer is instead of assuming it is one or the other.
I am absolutely open to the possibility that it could be either one, personally. I just don't think people should say, "it works like this" or "it works like that" until they actually have a funny little thing I like to call, "proof."
/em hands out some chill pills
I actually was able to find out the answer "from the source," and it is (drum roll please):
Negative resist mods DO NOT use the same mechanic as debuffs. Your stats are calculated with items, AAs, and spells, then capped. That capped number is what is used for all combat calculations. The per-spell resist mod and level difference resist mod are therefore applied after the cap, no matter what spells you have.
Whew.
So Rhaynne's theory appears to be incorrect. (EDIT: Which means Derrict is right ;))
I don't know if I buy it, honestly. Fighting the M'shas in Qvic (who ae constantly) I get relatively hammered at 500 resists... then in a bard group, with my resists pummped to the 700 range, I suddenly resist everything....
Seems fishy.
There is more to the chance to resist a spell than just the neg resist check. The stuff below is unknown to all but the devs, for the most part.
unknown112 0 unknown113 0
unknown129 0 unknown130 100
unknown131 0 unknown139 0
unknown140 0 unknown141 0
unknown144 39001 unknown145 39062
unknown146 0 unknown147 0
unknown148 -1 unknown149 -1
unknown150 0 unknown151 0
unknown152 0 unknown153 0
unknown154 0 unknown155 0
unknown156 0 unknown161 0
unknown176 0 unknown177 0
unknown178 -2 unknown179 136
unknown180 -62 unknown182 0
unknown183 0 unknown184 0
One spell that may have a neg 150 check can be resisted less often than a spell with neg 300 check. It all depends on the other checks that are calculated into the spell, ones we aren't familiar with.
What about for pets? Do they have the same 500 resistance cap that players do?
I can remember reading a post a few months ago where a few people with 500+ raid buffed resists were commenting on how their pets seemed to resist AEs with huge modifiers (-400, -500 or greater) much more often than the player did, which could suggest that the resist cap does not apply to pets.
There was no concrete evidence presented though, just purely speculation.