Ive heard this mentioned, but thought Id actually find out. Are warders pets stronger/tougher/harder hitting or better in general than a Mage pet?
Im sure there will be some differences of opinions, but overall is this true?
Mal
Ok, after having read some othe posts, nobody here thinks Warders are stronger than Mages pets. A small few Mages have posted they are, but were rebuffed by other Mages (at the Mages Tower).
Just thought Id ask.
Mal
Mage pets are slightly better, but not by a large margin.
You'll probably find the answer, and more, at http://forum.magecompendium.com/tower/index.php but basically, the post above is correct.
Well two things ...
The 64 pet fully buffed with all pet buffs and all player buffs we can cast, CAN take out a Mage pet fully buffed by the Mage, but barely.
Last night in Arena did a pet duel to check this out.
My pet ended the fight at 42% health with the mage earth pet dead.
We didnt try other pet types for the mage, just the earth pet for its largest HP.
The Mage Epic pet will eat ours, its got a DS that just hates pets.
I dueled a 65 earth pet with my 64 warder. Mage pet won, but barely. It had less than 5% HP when warder died. I had all my buffs and mage buffed his pet. The difference in the fight was his DS, without it warder probably would have one. We are going to try some more duels with him using various pets.
I'm not sure dueling is the only answer to "what pet is best". This question by itself does not mean a lot, because either in raid,solo or group, the pet is rarely alone without his Beastlord or Mage - dueling pet will only be academic studies, not really used in the "Real" Norrath.
To summarize, I'd say that the different mage pets are a plus (they can adapt the pet they want in each situation), but our warder is globally more balanced for all situations:
Some mage pets have better DPS, some mage pets have better tanking ability, some mage pets have better casting abilities but you have to take into account the master himself in the equation.
As for the question "is Mage better than Beastlord" I won't answer here, I think both classes are fun to play, and thats what count.
What makes our warder's so great is our HUGE heals for them, in a one on one against a mage pet with buffs (including heals) allowed I would bet on the bst pet everytime.
I would like to think that being a mage since June '99 might lend me a little credibility to state pet differences.
- Mage pets, other than the Epic pet, do not proc thier effects and DD's, but cast them at either 6 second (for earth and water) or 12 second (for air) intervals. Fire is not a pet, but a joke, and should never be looked at as a source of comparison, unless you are attempting to compare it to how many clowns can fit in a very small car.
- Both Mage and Beastlord pet haste buffs are 85% at 65, yet Arag's Celerity has a rather significant advantage in the other stat bonuses (35 STR, 35 ATK, and a whopping 53 AC)
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The most comperable Mage pet at 65, would be a Ward of Xegony, the air pet, compared to a Spirit of Sorsha, and the Spirit of Rellic Proc Buff.
Ward of Xegony max hit, unfocused, 83. Casts Air Elemental Strike every 12 seconds, 3.00 second stun, 75 damage. 12 second recast. Max Stun level, 6,000. (yes, 6 thousand)
Spirit of Sorsha max hit, unfocused, 79. Procs Spirit of Rellic Strike, 2.75 second stun, 155 damage, and 50 extra hate. Max Stun level, 61. Additionally gains 75 dex from the Spirit of Rellic buff.
Rather similar pets, and according to some parses on the old ebil site, the average proc rate, without additional dex boosts was approximately 1 in 10 seconds. So if math doesn't fail me, the approximate slow benefit of the Ward of Xegony is 25%, while Sorsha can do closer to 27.5% just edging out Ward of Xegony. Differences of course in that Ward can stun any mob, of any level, provided the spell will land at all, and Rellic is limited to 61 and under mobs. Other differences are that theoretically, Ward of Xegony's proc is more reliable.
In healing Power for the pets though, Beastlords have mages wooped.
Healing of Sorsha: 2100 hps, for 425 mana, 9 second casting time, 2.25 second recast time, 187.67 hps healed a second, at a ratio of 4.94 hps healed per mana expended.
Planar Renewal: 1200 hps, for 300 mana, 7 second casting time, 7.5 second recast time. 82.76 hps healed a second, at a ratio of 4 hps healed per mana expended.
Not like an exact, complicated study here, but tried to lay out some facts for ya.
Last time I dueled, I could not heal or buff my pet during the duel - so unless it changed, we suck at duels.
Thanks for the detailed description. Very informative.
If you wanted to just send in pet and heal, then BL seems far better. But the ability of the Mage to drop damage on a mob mean they can drop things faster. Slows from the BL mean the pet (and a party) can take on much higher level creatures I would guess, and the BL can still lay out some melee damage and wears armor.
BL seem to rock.
Mal
2 quick points.
Our 64 pet's max hit unfocused is 77, not 79. The focused pet hits for max 79.
Try dueling someone in an arena, I believe you 'll find that your heal works there. Never duel someone as a BST outside of an arena.
peace,
Well been try hard to figure out how to say this
i have ran with necros and mages alot and best i can tell trying to compair mage necro or bst is like trying to compair apples to oranges to bananas otehr then fruit there very difrant not better not worce just difrant
and so this my pet is better then your pet is silly
mage pets are DPS (part caster and part melee) with a suport of toys buffs armor plus mage has nukes and other forms of damge dealing
necros pets are very close to ours able to tank well and alot of dps plus dps suport from necros in the form of life tap and dots and the combo is down right sceary
beastlord pet is a fine tank able to dish it out and take it just as well taunt bash there master is part healer ( shammy style) and part killer (monk style)
so lets all get togather and make fuit saled and call it done
There is one thing warder is better than mages pet. That is holding aggro.
-Raz
Quote from: RazimirThere is one thing warder is better than mages pet. That is holding aggro.
-Raz
I believe that is because our pet engages melee closer than the mage pets. This is a large source of frustration for mages as when they want to make pet groups their larger more capable pet won't tank for the little pets. The other pets all get in closer and the mob destroys them before turning on the mage pet.
YMMV
Quote from: FiludanI believe that is because our pet engages melee closer than the mage pets. YMMV
Actually NO. Pets and Meele will engage at the same distance and that is MAX Meele range. The mob can move closer to the pet due to push but the pets (ALL PETS) will stop and attack at MAX Meele range. The Reason our pets hold aggro better is the PRocs we imbue them with if it lands or resists they generate hate. Mages and other classes have to rely on procs of weapons. Ours use Inate(Imbued) procs and weapon procs.
I have never played yet with a high level pet, but what I saw in the mid-levels between a mage/Bst duo.
While playing on Stromm, my son (39 mage/air pet) and myself (38Bst/30pet) went to Rathe to kill HG's. The biggest concern my son had was if he sent his pet in first to tank the HG was that I had to step up and tank so he could back his pet off. He complained that his pet heal was too small and took a long time to cast. Where as if I sent my pet in first his pet would rarely get hit and I only had to heal my warder once until I went in to finish off the HG.
He also felt that if his pet died then he was in major trouble whereas I could tank and if I channeled through a cast I had another pet.
Regarding our pets hitting from max distance. If I send in the pet on an assist, yes he stands back at max distance. While fighting Greyhoppers in MS, I send my warder in first. They are nose to nose when they fight. At first I thought it was lag but after watching a few other warders fight it was the same.
Quote from: NanndasRegarding our pets hitting from max distance. If I send in the pet on an assist, yes he stands back at max distance. While fighting Greyhoppers in MS, I send my warder in first. They are nose to nose when they fight. At first I thought it was lag but after watching a few other warders fight it was the same.
This is due to each monster having a different imaginary 'box' around it to denote how close you have to be to its centre to actually be able to hit it. Hill giants, for example, have a big box and it can look like you aren't coming anywhere near them when you are still within melee range. Greyhoppers in MS .. or perhaps lightcrawlers illustrate this better ... in MS have a small one - you have to be very close to them to hit.
ALL pets behave the same way wrt stopping at max melee range. Push from different pets and spells/other melee can change this, and the pet doesnt move if its within melee range, but this still has absolutely no effect on aggro unless the mob is rooted - and even then I am going to have to make some observations before drawing conclusions. If it works like player aggro on a rooted mob, then the pet whose centre is closest to the mobs centre will have aggro - and that has nothing to do with what kind of pet it is - bst/mag/nec/druid/etc.
Actually Gronker my pet is used as the MT when taking down the Prastorium Leaders in SSeru and he holds aggro even when other pets are closer or if I back him off for reposition he gets summoned back and none of the other pets are hit at all.
If you dont know why pets are used on these fights I will explain. To get to Lord Inquisitor Seru. You go through the Earring of Vercaity Quest. To get the Arx Key you have to get 4 Shards that drop off the Prastorium Leaders around the Ark Stronghold Building that houses LIS. They have a in zone Banish to Jail that procs on PC Characters but pets are unaffected at all. so get about 5-8 pet casses and a few healers and you can take them all out fairly fast.
TheOriginalGronker, thanks for the explanation! Now I can see why my warder sits on a lightcrawlers head/tail to beat on it. :)
Nan
Hehe, Yea light crawlers have a hitbox the size of a gnome :roll: :twisted: :shock:
Dueling doesnt tell you which pet is better. For one thing, whichever pet enragest first is technically the loser of the two.
The only way to compare it is to have both pets fight a mob that is always a certain level. In my experience with my RL friends mage, my pet can kill things her earth pet cannot, but only barely in most cases.
Hers has more HP/AC in general, mine has more dps.
Her non-earth pets in general could not hit the dps or tank ability of my pet in tanking situations.
Besides, it really does not matter whos pet is better. What matters is which *team* is better, and we definitely solo better than they do. 8)
Quote from: SoriabActually Gronker my pet is used as the MT when taking down the Prastorium Leaders in SSeru and he holds aggro even when other pets are closer or if I back him off for reposition he gets summoned back and none of the other pets are hit at all.
Hmm ... well summoning mobs are going to summon the highest aggro pet/person back if they are out of range regardless of any other circumstances. I think I worded my simple "aggro when mob rooted" explanation sloppily however (as the closest player has the mobs melee attention, NOT the most aggro) but I was trying to be as clear as possible.
Quote from: Soriab
If you dont know why pets are used on these fights I will explain. <snip> They have a in zone Banish to Jail that procs on PC Characters but pets are unaffected at all. so get about 5-8 pet casses and a few healers and you can take them all out fairly fast.
Pets immunity to banish works great with Trak and Maeniatic Prototypes too :wink:
Oh as an interesting aside, we were pet-slaughtering the prototypes in PoI and my pet was the 'MT' however when the mages/necros chained up new pets, they got aggro almost instantly - it was in a raid setting though which I almost never do (if that has anything to do with it). I've been at a loss to explain that (but it sure helped keep Snuggles alive) and its the only case I can think of where I've seen this (not that I've been looking for this). The end result was Snuggles survived the entire battle, and half a dozen mage pets were made by each mage. You could see the mob turn to them when they finally arrived. :roll:
Hmm. we just take 3 groups and kill the Prototypes for grinns and giggles. Never had one banish anyone in the raid. We do the same thing with the same 3 groups and kill the dragon. 8)
They banish you normally to one of the other rooms with prototypes in it. At least, they did a while ago. Havent been back in a while.