Well, ok, "finished" probably isn't exactly the right word. But that's all the time I spent on it.
It had been a very long time since I had attempted anything but the simplest buy-and-hand-in quests. I had just reached level 65 so I didn't have to drag anybody else along with me and either waste their time, or have to do everything twice if it's another Beastlord. The mainhand weapon is, frankly, crap compared to what I can get on the Bazaar for a few hours' farming income, but the secondary looks like it might be nice to have. So I figured what the heck, I'd give it a try.
Now I recall why I quit doing quests so long ago. This is a colossal pain in the butt.
I looked up every single detail of the quest on Allakhazam's, then went to get the Copper medal, wrestled with the 1970's quality parser system until I got the right NPC to do what he was supposed to. Even then I had to go through the process several times, going back to cheat boards to figure out what combination of things were most likely to get you to the item.
Finally, I was done with that. Then I turned it in and started on the "epic battles." I copied down the exact coordinates of every NPC scout (apparently there is no clue at all actually in the game as to where they are. I guess you were just supposed to randomly cover every inch of the planet looking for them; I skipped that part of the epic "adventure" altogether.)
I went to each spot -- exactly each coordinate of all six NPC's because the cheat sites said they were all hiding behind rocks and trees and things. None of the six were there. The cheat sites say the respawn rates are (probably) somewhere between 72 hours and 6 days. So apparently, I am supposed to log on every couple of hours for the next half week at least - longer if another Beastlord on the same server happens to beat me to the punch, or if somebody just gets a wild hare and kills the NPC's for giggles.
The engineering of this game and the intricacy of the combat system are works of genius, and I have managed to squeeze a lot of fun out of this game. But these quests are nothing but aggravation. I guess some people take a perverse pride in being able to put up with more annoyance than others, but I don't see anything admirable about that kind of "accomplishment." As near as I can tell, these quests are only designed to be enjoyed by a very tiny handful of people out of the hundreds of thousands of paying subscribers who are the first to actually put their clues together and finish the quest before anyone else.
I wouldn't mind if the quest took ten times longer -- in fact, the longer the better if the process were in some way fun or interesting. But I actually caught myself saying out loud at my computer: "God, what a pain in the a--!" on several separate occasions while I was trying this.
Seriously, what are the designers thinking when they do crap like this? Did it ever occur to them to take somebody off the street, sit him down at the computer to try this out and ask him: "Is this fun?" What kind of marketing guru would it take to come up with that idea? Or, if they did do that, and somebody actually said he enjoyed the time he spent doing the quest, I want to know the name of the asylum that guy got out of because their security needs a lot of work.
Feel better now?
Sorry, this may not sound too nice....
Quote from: Chackra
I went to each spot -- exactly each coordinate of all six NPC's because the cheat sites said they were all hiding behind rocks and trees and things. None of the six were there. The cheat sites say the respawn rates are (probably) somewhere between 72 hours and 6 days. So apparently, I am supposed to log on every couple of hours for the next half week at least - longer if another Beastlord on the same server happens to beat me to the punch, or if somebody just gets a wild hare and kills the NPC's for giggles.
This is different from everyother epic quest how? 3-6 days is nothing. Not sure about on other servers but they are up for several days at a time on Saryrn. These scouts are a walk in the park compaired to most of the other epic quests out there and I think we, as a class, have the lease amount of room to complain about it. What other class can solo their entire epic? No epic is just handed out to a person, I'm reminded of the old Rage for the cleric epic here....we have it easy. If you want to see a hard epic go try out the Mage epic and spend the next month farming PoHate for the one peice they need there. I spent a nearly a month of nights in Skyfire farming the shards for my cleric's epic (I thank god that I came along after they had "nurfed" the Ragefire spawn in that zone).
Quote from: SkandaSorry, this may not sound too nice....
This is different from everyother epic quest how? 3-6 days is nothing.
As I said, that wouldn't be nearly long enough if the quests were in any way fun or interesting. As it is, three minutes is a bit too long, and three hours is insane. Last time I checked, no online computer game involves heavy lifting, so nothing involved with this is "hard" and I never said anything about how BST quests compare to those of other classes.
Now, this part might not seem nice, but (although that's no excuse) it is honest: I have absolutely no idea why anyone would think the quests in EQ are fun. There is the thrill of getting something at the end, but that's like the old joke about liking to bang your head against a wall because it feels so good when you stop.
EQ approaches the concept of questing as a 400,000 man scavenger hunt. I've read a lot about how the quests in WoW work, and that's caused me to be even more bothered by this. I know it's what a lot of us have gotten used to, but it doesn't have to be this way.
Quote from: ChackraQuote from: SkandaSorry, this may not sound too nice....
This is different from everyother epic quest how? 3-6 days is nothing.
As I said, that wouldn't be nearly long enough if the quests were in any way fun or interesting. As it is, three minutes is a bit too long, and three hours is insane. Last time I checked, no online computer game involves heavy lifting, so nothing involved with this is "hard" and I never said anything about how BST quests compare to those of other classes.
Now, this part might not seem nice, but (although that's no excuse) it is honest: I have absolutely no idea why anyone would think the quests in EQ are fun. There is the thrill of getting something at the end, but that's like the old joke about liking to bang your head against a wall because it feels so good when you stop.
EQ approaches the concept of questing as a 400,000 man scavenger hunt. I've read a lot about how the quests in WoW work, and that's caused me to be even more bothered by this. I know it's what a lot of us have gotten used to, but there is no real reason it has to be this way.
Sorry for the double post. Does anybody know why sometimes you get edit and delete buttons in this forum and sometimes you don't?
Quote from: ChackraSorry for the double post. Does anybody know why sometimes you get edit and delete buttons in this forum and sometimes you don't?
You can't edit in the rants forum.
And Everquest is a game involving tons and tons of time. This game isn't built to cater to the instant reward type people. Epic quests, Shawl/Ring quest, Lord Seru's earring quest, Key to VT, PoP Flagging, GoD Flagging, tradeskills in general, faction building.... Everything in this game that is worth anything takes time to do. How exactly would you go about making quests "fun" given the current structure of EQ?
I can't think of any quest that I would call fun but the reward at the end of the quest makes it worth putting up with. I've known people who have been working on their epics for years (literally). I know I hated the VT key quest but for me finally being able to zone into VT made it worth it. It's all about time vs reward in this game.
Quote from: SkandaYou can't edit in the rants forum.
Damn, that makes me mad!
Quote from: SkandaHow exactly would you go about making quests "fun" given the current structure of EQ?
Um, change the structure? I know EQ originally broke a lot of new ground, and there were unavoidably some mistakes made in the beginning. But if you look at where the trends are heading now, they are toward even more boring twinking and farming on one end, and on the other end even more raid equipment requiring a level of corporate hierarchy and hoop-jumping, which if it were a paying job, most people would quit.
As for the time-versus reward, as I've said three times now, I would be perfectly happy if that ratio were actually increased. The first step in making quests fun would be to make them what I call "accessible" instead of random, insanely convoluted, and aggravating. Make it so it's reasonably possible for a player to figure the quest out from inside the game; give me an idea of the difficulty before beginning so I know whether I should try now in a group or wait 5 levels and do it solo; let me know what I need to do without wandering through an endless parsing purgatory; and give me clear and meaningful choices to make as to what quest path I want to take and what techniques I can use to complete each quest.
Is that so hard? Well ok maybe it would be hard to do it perfectly; but it wouldn't be hard at all to stop intentionally doing it as incredibly badly as it's done now.
For one extremely tiny detail: WoW puts exclamation points above the heads of NPC's who have something to say that is relevant to your character that only you can see. To heck with computer games, I wish real life be like that! Sony managed to put individualized path markers in the game, are you telling me they can't manage to show me which of the hundreds of NPC's in the game have quests that I might be interested in at my level and class?
As for examples of "fun" quests, you can look up some WoW beta web sites for some examples of the fun stuff, but I advise against it. By the time WoW is released, nearly every quest will already be compiled somewhere, and I'm sure some people out of habit will ruin the game for themselves by reading them. Doing that is almost as stupid as trying to do an EQ quest
without looking up every detail first.
People tell students "you're only cheating yourself!" Well, bull. If you don't get caught, you might come out ahead in life. But cheating at a roleplaying game should be an oxy-moron instead of standard practice. If someone wants to be led through all the quests by the nose so they can finish a little quicker than me and avoid what for all anyone knows might be a painful process of thinking and discovering for themselves, I have a perfect solution: Let them.
MMORPG's are great because there are so many people you
CAN meet and work with. Forcing people to work as a monstrous collective to accomplish goals is completely unnecessary and counterproductive to what should be the real purpose of any game. If people want to work together from time to time that's fine, but it is impossible for a "collective" to have fun, only individuals can do that. Sony has lost sight of that.
I follow WoW quite a bit (I'v even played it a bit) and from what I'm seeing a fairly large portion of their quests are built along the same guidelines and EQ, collections, delivery, killing mob X for item Y, etc. EQ quests even have a story like WoW quests if people would bother to read the text given by the NPCs.
QuoteFor one extremely tiny detail: WoW puts exclamation points above the heads of NPC's who have something to say that is relevant to your character that only you can see. To heck with computer games, I wish real life be like that! Sony managed to put individualized path markers in the game, are you telling me they can't manage to show me which of the hundreds of NPC's in the game have quests that I might be interested in at my level and class?
One difference between WoW and EQ. WoW is being built to cater to new players who don't have a clue about MMORPGS and battle net kids who can't even figure out how to use their keyboards properly. EQ wasn't built to be newb frendly. EQ wan't ment to force feed to population. You have to use some wits when playing EQ and figure things out for yourself (I will admit that a lot of EQ quests are needlessly vague about what to do next though). In my opinion if WoW fails anywhere it will be because they have made the game too easy. I enjoy some difficulty in my games. I enjoy having to think about things.
QuoteUm, change the structure?
Change the structure how? It's easy to say but not so easy to implement. When you say structure what exactly are you referring too? Storyline (EQ divorced itself from any form of a storyline a long time ago)? Walkthrough (so you don't even have to tab out and read AllaKhzam anymore)? Exclamation marks above the heads (Not a great idea in my opinion) ? Decrease the amount of farming/work you have to do (thereby increasing the amount that people farm the quest and devalue it)? Increase the spawn rate so no one has to wait for spawns anymore (again this would most likely increase farming of the quest to sell)? What exactly would you change without causing a problem in another area of the game?
Quotewhich if it were a paying job, most people would quit.
This is worse then a paying job for us. WE pay THEM to play. I would be ecstatic if they started giving me a salary to put up with clearing my way through Vex Thal.
Quote from: Chackra
MMORPG's are great because there are so many people you CAN meet and work with. Forcing people to work as a monstrous collective to accomplish goals is completely unnecessary and counterproductive to what should be the real purpose of any game. If people want to work together from time to time that's fine, but it is impossible for a "collective" to have fun, only individuals can do that. Sony has lost sight of that.
You don't play in a raid guild do you? I have tons of fun raiding with 40+ people every night. Don't make assumptions. And how is it unnecessary and counterproductive? What, exactly, is the real purpose of this game in the first place? This is an MMORPG. Why play if you don't like working with people?
Quote from: SkandaChange the structure how? It's easy to say but not so easy to implement. ... Walkthrough (so you don't even have to tab out and read AllaKhzam anymore)?
Why do you like cheat sites so much?
Quote.. decrease the amount of farming/work you have to do (thereby increasing the amount that people farm the quest and devalue it)? Increase the spawn rate so no one has to wait for spawns anymore (again this would most likely increase farming of the quest to sell)?
Sorry I didn't make this clear the first four times I said it: I don't want to make the quests "easier", whatever the heck that means, I want them to be "accessible", meaning that a person playing the game, from the point of view of the character has a reasonable chance of figuring them out on his own. It's a difficult concept to describe completely from scratch, but it's called "roleplaying", or "adventure gaming." If you don't like that kind of thing, that's perfectly fine, but please just try to understand there are some people who do. Call me crazy if you want, but I happen to think an engine like EQ's could be used to do something like that.
EQ's catering to twinking, powerleveling, walkthroughs, and pretty much everything having to do with guilds (other than their social aspect) has destroyed any semblance of the "RP" part of MMORPG. If the "MM" part is the only thing that you are interested in, that's what chat rooms are for.
And yes, the few minutes of WoW beta footage I've seen does seem a little more fast-paced than I would like, but the designers have said that the later quests are much more involved – unlike you, I have no idea how complicated they want to make them. Obviously I would prefer much more complexity than the average person, but there is a very big difference between "complex" and "convoluted". I understand the appeal of the 400,000 man scavenger hunt; it's a lot like watching a football game: people want to feel a part of something big even if you're not the one doing it. I simply like to do things that are more personally interactive and computer games, especially online computer games, should have no problem doing both.
Since you're a lot more of an expert on the topic than me, I'm sure that you're well aware that WoW uses a 'base-of-operations' approach to questing, where they tend to send the character to areas that are appropriate to his class, level and even tradeskills and other factors, where there are lots of other things to hunt and do while he waits for his spawn, number of kills, collections, etc. And that the higher level quests are "threaded" with overlapping story arcs that allow the character to make decisions which will affect his development and the direction future quests will take.
The part I'm fuzzy on is why you think none of this can be done in EQ's "structure", whatever the heck that is supposed to be.
As for the time-sink aspect, I got to level 60 before I looted anything better than I had bought in the bazaar, and even those were still droppable; I just couldn't quite afford them before. It occurred to me that if they just made more items no-drop and increased the stats, I could have been doing that the entire time. Why do you have a problem with simply having quests be accessible in game and take no more time than bazaar-farming or guild-twinking an equivalent item would take?
First you say you don't mind long quests as long as they are involved but then you say;
QuoteWhy do you have a problem with simply having quests be accessible in game and take no more time than bazaar-farming or guild-twinking an equivalent item would take?
EQ is simply not a quest centered game. If you want the good stuff join a guild and raid or do the bazarr farming.
Quotebut it's called "roleplaying", or "adventure gaming." If you don't like that kind of thing, that's perfectly fine, but please just try to understand there are some people who do. Call me crazy if you want, but I happen to think an engine like EQ's could be used to do something like that.
QuoteIf the "MM" part is the only thing that you are interested in, that's what chat rooms are for.
You're right, there are people who like roleplaying. Why is it that the people who like interacting with friends (or raiding) should use the chat room? Roleplayers can use the chat room to their hearts content too (I do PnP roleplaying so I'm not clueless in this subject either). As much as roleplayers want it EQ is not a roleplaying friendly game (Don't expect WoW to be a roleplaying mecha either). Even the FV server doesn't have much in the way of roleplaying. Roleplaying seems to be a minority in MMORPGs (even more so then PvP). Roleplayers will always get the shaft because they don't bring much money to the table for Sony/Blizzard/Other companies. Why should EQ cater to roleplayers vs raiders?
I can understand wanting to make the text of the quests more clear but in your origional post you were also ranting about the respawn time of the scouts. This leads me to think that better text isn't the only thing you're looking for.
QuoteWhy do you like cheat sites so much?
I don't use Alla's much because I simply don't bother with the quests. Heck, I haven't even done my epic because it's not worth it to me vs my current weapon combination.
What you're asking for is to play EverQuest. You can't do that in EverRaid.
:wink:
Quote from: Skanda... I simply don't bother with the quests. Heck, I haven't even done my epic because it's not worth it to me vs my current weapon combination.
As near as I can tell, you apparently agree that EQ's quests suck. I have no idea whether we were ever actually arguing about anything, but if we were, it's officially over now.
You're right, I agree that quests suck. :P
I just don't really see a way to make them any better.
Quotewe were ever actually arguing
I prefer the word debating. :wink:
The main reason quests suck in eq is that they don't track your quests. If you ever played DAoC you will know how quests should be done. Before you can complete any quest you first need to get it. Then after you have got it and kill the mob that it says to kill you AND everyone in your party who also has the quest will automatically have the item in your invetory. Also the mobs you have to kill are not stupid long days/week long spawns they are pretty much always there. Also theres no point killing the mob before you have the quest as it won't drop the items needed. Nor are they camped because they don't drop loot.
Also the quest log which shows you the quests you are doing has decent directions on what you need to do. All in all its a pretty good quest system.
Quote from: MindletThe main reason quests suck in eq is that they don't track your quests.
I once read a designer say the EQ engine didn't allow for that, and they couldn't add it without doing a complete character wipe. He said if they had it to do over again from scratch, they would definitely have put that in.
But then they came out with "flagging", so I don't know.
Speaking of DoAC, have they added a lot of non-pvp content since release? I played it for the first month and loved it. (Some very interesting and fun quests, btw), but around level 30 I found myself standing by a field shaped like a large postage stamp, pulling mobs to the edge. It was like fishing in a barrel. Back then there were lots of empty areas.
If there is a WHOLE lot more content, I'd like to try it out again, but it just seems like they're way too focused on pvp, and I have no interest in that at all.
To be honest I wouldn't have a clue. I too got to 30 and found almost nothing to do. I stopped playing about 2 months after release.
There are really only 2 things I hate in Everquest:
#1: Quests
#2: LDoN
1: I hate quests. Dont ask me why... I really dont know. I guess I just dont like the idea of 'camping' crappy_mob_9985 to loot a "giant swollen pigs ass" tp then bring back to "Jeffry the NPC" who then sends you to give this "Note" to "Bob the Baker" who then asks you to find him a "A Brown Terd" off of "A Giant Terd Machine" in "Zone fo Newbies"....
I just dont like quests. Generally speaking 90% of all quest results are crap and are usually replaced very quickly with something better from the Bazaar. Now dont get me wrong. Some quests are viable. The Binden Con(spelling that is a pain in my buttocks), some Epics (Cleric) and perhaps a minor quest or 2 are worthy.
I hate quests.
2: I hate LDoN. I dont think I really need to go in to the complete ass-ness of this particular part of the game. Its just a gigantic time sink with VERY little reward after spending 15,000 hours in there.
So I dont do LDoN. Plain and simple.
It's all very well saying this and that about WoW but realize they've had 5 years to study what was right and what wasn't about EQ before copying the parts that did work and refining it to suit their own needs.
EQ is just a different game than it was five years ago. The quests, generally speaking, HAVE gotten better in terms of both their intuitiveness and reward so I think the designers have learned.
I'm not ashamed about going to spoiler sites to read up about certain quests if the reward is worth the time invested. I still find those quests fun even if I don't have to put any thought into doing them as long as I know what I'm up against when I start. If the reward is worth it, I'll do it i.e. I've just started my bard epic and plan on finishing up my wizard epic also as the rewards are still nice. I couldn't ever imagine doing them without looking at spoiler sites but that's not the only avenue you have of finding out how to do quests...there are other people in this game who have completed them already and would probably give you the lowdown on hot to complete them.
Quote from: feralizeThe quests, generally speaking, HAVE gotten better in terms of both their intuitiveness and reward so I think the designers have learned.
Which ones? Not being glib, besides Epic and the Qeynos badge quests, I'm really struggling trying to find decent ones suited to a mid to high level Bst that doesn't raid. Only ones I can think of are the Twilight ones, which are extremely disappointing, even on Luclin release.
gonna be a hard ride when you start getting ready to go to VT if the beastlord epic was tough for ya ;p
BC
Quote from: BloodCeltgonna be a hard ride when you start getting ready to go to VT if the beastlord epic was tough for ya ;p
BC
Do you find reading "tough"? I lost count of how many times I said this: "hard" has nothing to do with it; the so-called quests in EQ are stupid and boring. I suppose I can see why you might find them endlessly fascinating, but they are simply not my cup of tea.
The most interesting thing about this thread was figuring out which tired, bored chiche it'd fit into.
At first it was kinda lookin' like "(insert name of MMORPG here) is WAY better than EQ, but I continue to play and bitch incessantly about this one 'cause I'm cool," but then it kinda veered towards "Uber-guilders are evil! I pay $12.99 a month too so I should be equal!" It's amazing how many ways the exact same things can be said.
Now I'm not sure where it's going, but please, continue. /popcorn on
Neight
QuoteI wouldn't mind if the quest took ten times longer -- in fact, the longer the better if the process were in some way fun or interesting.
Quote"hard" has nothing to do with it; the so-called quests in EQ are stupid and boring.
What would make the quests fun or interesting and less stupid and boring? If your going to badmouth the current way things are handled then best be able to provide an alternative. The only suggestions i saw in the quick glances i got were for the quests to be "that a person playing the game from the point of view of the character has a reasonable chance of figuring them out on his own". This sounds like you want more clues when the quest is given out but how would this change anything? Still the same old stupid boring quest but this time you have more clues. And if the quests couldn't be figured out by a person playing then how did it get solved in the first place to be put on the cheat sites or Allakhazam's that you use?
The quest system is fine as it is and if you don't like it then you have the freedom of not doing these quests. Sure, more little add ons would be nice, but then theres that saying "If its not broke, why fix it". This system has worked for 5+ years, why change it now. Thats whats great about this game, you can, for the most part, choose what you want to do and how you want to do it. If you want that piece of armor or that weapon, you can go out and get it on your own or pay someone to do it for you.
Quote from: LorathirWhich ones? Not being glib, besides Epic and the Qeynos badge quests, I'm really struggling trying to find decent ones suited to a mid to high level Bst that doesn't raid. Only ones I can think of are the Twilight ones, which are extremely disappointing, even on Luclin release.
The Nurga and Droga "free the slaves" quests spring to mind...
I don't really mind the quests in EQ. The ones that have a story and make sense.
The Shaman Epic is my favorite eq-story ever. The only hint I got from a cheat site was where the starting NPC was. For the rest of it, I actually READ the text to find out where to go. It was very fun and back then it was EPIC.
Now my beast epic story was so-so and easy. The most help I ever had was like 5 people and I read the hints on it just because I wanted the weapon and that was it. I didn't care about the story.
Quests are fun if you don't read the spoilers. Just like single player games are fun if you don't use character editors or cheat codes. How long would you keep playing if you could edit your char with any gear you wanted and plunk 700AA into him with a cheat. Ya your uber. Ya you have no sense of accomplishement. Ya your bored. You would quit after a week.
Quote from: feralizeThe Nurga and Droga "free the slaves" quests spring to mind...
Just the ticket. I didn't think anything there would be an upgrade for me, but I see there's a nice looking back item I could definately use.
Thanks!
Quote from: neightbut then it kinda veered towards "Uber-guilders are evil! I pay $12.99 a month too so I should be equal!" It's amazing how many ways the exact same things can be said.
Would that be in reference to what I said Neight?
Quote from: UrimWhat would make the quests fun or interesting and less stupid and boring? If your going to badmouth the current way things are handled then best be able to provide an alternative. The only suggestions i saw in the quick glances i got....
Reading is fundamental; especially if you want to criticize someone for incompleteness.
I guess you'll have to take my word for it, but the main thing I did was comment on some of the more colossal things EQ has done wrong. There have been hundreds of PnP, single-player, and MMORPG's that have quests that are "accessible" without 400,000 man scavenger hunts. I didn't take the time to list all of the many thousands of examples of concepts that were used before, let alone layout new scenarios for you - do you have any idea why that would obviously have been a waste of time? I understand that people are very emotionally invested in validating the time they spent on EQ's quests, so I didn't expect much effort. All I was trying to do was make a point - that it doesn't have to be this way - but apparently even that didn't get through at all.
The point is well taken Chackra. I'm amazed anyone thinks the quests in EQ are good. Some of them are somewhat decent, but the large majority of them are junk. I doubt most people would be able to complete them without the spoiler sites, there are simlpy not enough clues in game. How would you know you were at the right spot for a quest spawn, if it only shows up every 72 hours and has a 30% chance of skipping a spawn? How about trying to find one of those ground spawns - a little brown bag that could be anywhere in the huge kunark zones.
How about you go hail a guy and he says, there goes the guy that has the item I need, go get him, and a running guy spawns. You catch up to him, and at 30% life he surrenders and tells you of a hollow tree in another zone, which has lions guarding it. The item is in that tree, if you can get past the lions. When you bring the item back to the first guy, he tries to stiff you on the reward, and you can kill him and loot his body, or if your faction is good you don't have to.
See that? Straightforward, easy to find the tree with the lions, make the mobs you fight tough enough that someone who could take them would find the item worthwhile, and you have yourself a little quest.
90% of the EQ quests are - go get these items which are on super long spawn rate mobs (with no clue as to where they are or their difficulty), bring em back, get an item that is junk compared to a bazaar item you could have gotten in half the time through plat farming.
In general, I think SOE is trying on this front, but it would be nice if they would make more progress on this.
QuoteWhich ones? Not being glib, besides Epic and the Qeynos badge quests, I'm really struggling trying to find decent ones suited to a mid to high level Bst that doesn't raid. Only ones I can think of are the Twilight ones, which are extremely disappointing, even on Luclin release.
Marsinger comes to mind. Up to the 3rd quest is easily doable with a grp (I prefer the veng on the 3rd over the affect on the 4th anyways, Gem of Heroism (http://www.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=20977#)). Even easier now that you don't need a wizzy to get you to Hate, although make sure you have gate potion or some means to get out.
Signet Earring of Veracity (http://www.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=16266) is also doable, with a good reward. The 4th in the quest is linked, the 5th may not be achievable unless you're in a guild that can take down Saru, but the 4th that certainly is and is a decent item for a none raiding bst
ahhh eq quests, and the stupidity of them.
First point: what part of waiting 24 hours to 7 days for a mob to spawn is supposed to be either: fun, hard, entertaining, or challenging? Killing it or fighting it should meet those player status's, but sitting around waiting for it to pop? Whose kidding who here?
personal favorite npc clue for a quest item: "The lost scroll contains the magical incantation I need to help you out. It was penned ages ago by the Elves. It was lost along with its protector during one of the raids on the Outpost in Firiona. I fear it may be lost for good" Could that clue give any LESS information? I gotta admit though, this ones a close second: 'It is a key I lost long ago when I was travelling with a companion. We were traveling in the new lands flying over some large crevices when the key dropped out of my pocket.'
Personal favorite unsolved quest: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=2204
I mean, nobody ever did FINISH that quest...did they?
I think our scout from TD wins the 'When will this stupid @#$# NPC spawn already?' award.
Biggest cash drain quest award goes to Aid Grimel, but only if you haven't done any trade skilling before starting it.
just keep repeating after me, 'its only a game', 'its only a game', 'its only a game'.....
lol
For those that say they don't like quests or time sinks, I've got two words...
...PoP progression. I suppose it's one word and an acronym, but I digress.
To say that LDoN is a huge timesink...
...I don't get it.
Everytime I've weighed it out, to get a comparable upgrade in LDoN to a PoP upgrade it comes out to being a similar timesink (when you factor in saving up DKP, being outbid by other players, etc, etc).
And what makes LDoN better than upgrading through raids (IMO) is the fact that you get decent exp while doing it. Also the chance for augs to drop, etc...
All LDoN needs is as much thought and design put into it as what is being put into Raid content. As well as comparable loot to EP's and up (at the high end price scope from the merchants).
ever-QUEST - To hate quests is to hate the very concept of the game.
:wink:
/brainstorm on
I think one thing that should be looked at with quests is making the XP that you get as a reward viable. Make quests rewarding - if the loot isn't great, at least give the player an appropriate XP award for the time invested in completing the quest.
Every roleplaying game I've played (both PC and P&P) gives huge rewards for completing quests, with smaller xp bonuses for the mobs you kill on the way. That's one of the first differences I saw in EQ. The game is called EverQuest, but questing isn't rewarded (or the reward doesn't nearly begin justify the difficulty of the quest). Now I know there are a few exceptions to this (for example - Scorpion pincer quest in FoB is great for XP..... until you hit lev 5).
How about quests that are designed purely to give XP (or AAXP)?
In order to stop a player doing quests multiple times, make each XP giving quest give the player a flag. If you're flagged for that quest, you can't start/complete it again.
These quests could be solo or group based, and need not be combat orientated. Get players involved in politics and power struggles between factions. In fact your faction could/should be a trigger for certain events (ie once you are trusted by a group, they ask you for help).
This would then pave the way for rolling class/race specific quests, political quests or events based on your characters quest flags. Imagine being in a town/city where everyone calls you "Saviour" or "Messiah" (or "Very Naughty Boy") because you have a particular flag gained by stopping a great evil there. Merchants give you discounts, new quests open up and any factions you slighted in completing the quest vow vengence. Imagine the assasin spawning when you least expect it... and you thought that zone was safe!
You get the idea. Possibilities are endless.
I wouldn't think something like this would be too hard to implement because a flagging system is already in place. Just needs a bit of creativity!
/brainstorm off
[quote="Gnarloth]
How about quests that are designed purely to give XP (or AAXP)?
In order to stop a player doing quests multiple times, make each XP giving quest give the player a flag. If you're flagged for that quest, you can't start/complete it again.
These quests could be solo or group based, and need not be combat orientated. Get players involved in politics and power struggles between factions. In fact your faction could/should be a trigger for certain events (ie once you are trusted by a group, they ask you for help).
[/quote]
Very good idea, Gnarloth. I do not believe you need to add any special flagging for quests, as it will require more work for dev.
What would you prefer ?
Killing the mobs over and over for 1% xp every 30 seconds or
do a quest (that will at least require some zoning) that would give 10% xp (talking AA xp at 60+ here) every 5 minutes ?
At the moment we don't have any choice for doing quests, and , I agree XP reward for quest is way too low.
As many quests in EQ atm are the "bring me these drops" king, I Suggest that:
Any quest requiring a common drop/mob should be at least 5% XP per item. Any quest requiring a uncommon drop/mob should be at least 10% XP per item.
Any quest requiring a rare drop/mob should be at least 25% XP per item.
Any quest requiring a very rare drop/mob should be at least 50% XP per item.
What would be wrong with gaining an AA at turn in after having spent 10 hours farming a rare item?
Of course, players will exploit any issue - that's to be expected. But the only way to prevent new exploits would be to freeze the game as it is now. Q&A and Beta testing are the usual solutions to detect most of those.