I'd like to start compiling a new top-10 list, but due to my limited range in the game lately, I'm "out of it" on many areas. Please comment down below, and I'll modify as it goes.
In no particular order
(to be fleshed out later)
Remove the group haste recourse from peerless penchant and just give us group haste as a seperate spell. It was a good idea for grouping, but it is annoying during raids.
Having to mem shrink and reshrink 2x every 30 minutes when i recast pact of the wurine is annoying also. Don't know if there is a direct fix for this. Maybe a instant self only shrink AA? Targetable shrink AA would be awesome though, and not gamebreaking by any means... one for our pet also.
Oh yeah, and increase our tankability...I feel it went downhill in SoF frrom personnal experience although I have no empirical data to support it.
And make 2hb a more viable option to use for bsts.
*Edit*
my top 10 list
1. better tankability
2. a better de-agro ability, or improve roar of thunder
3. remove recourse from peerless penchant, give us a seperate grp haste
4. extend the cripple line to bsts, I think our last was incapacitate at lvl 56
5. add Mod to Fero to make it more useful, like crit chance, double attk
6. AA shrinks(self/pet/targetable)
7. AA invis
8. improve 2HB as a weapon option(dps drastically drops switching from 2 1Handers)
shoots for the moon hereafter---->
9. AA slow(or maybe a new slow with a slightly better resist check?)
9.5. A low level resist debuff from the Shaman line.
10. tracking.. i have always thought bst's should have an innate track ability as a class ever since Luclin was released. Animals are master trackers.
Another thing about werewolf form is that it would be nice if, when a player dies, their name hovers better over the corpse. Makes corpse dragging easier since the name tends to hide in the floor.
Taste of Blood...still sucks so lets remove it or make it do something.
Group haste. Is anyone really satisfied with it?
This is forwarded to the community leader forum(the link to your 10 ten list). Please keep discussion civil, concise and on topic. Kthx.
I use group haste when I'm the only haster for a group, simply for conveinance. Hastes fade more easily with it, cause its so short, and its a little more of a load to keep up with it. Making the group haste recourse last longer would certainly go towards helping that.
It is certainly "viable" in its current form, but could use some work to be useful.
I wouldn't say it's viable. I blocked the recourse so it wouldn't overwrite my haste from my clicky tunic. I usually two-box with my shammy and and his haste is better anyway. on raids, it takes up a buff slot since it stacks with chanter haste and the recourse lands on everyone in the group, even the monk pulling. It takes up a buff slot. It's a bad spell, poorly designed and implemented.
Quote from: hokarz on April 29, 2008, 08:04:10 PM
I wouldn't say it's viable. I blocked the recourse so it wouldn't overwrite my haste from my clicky tunic. I usually two-box with my shammy and and his haste is better anyway. on raids, it takes up a buff slot since it stacks with chanter haste and the recourse lands on everyone in the group, even the monk pulling. It takes up a buff slot. It's a bad spell, poorly designed and implemented.
But to counter that it stacks with chanter haste, every other haste does as well. I would be happy if 1 of 2 things happened
1) It has a longer duration (30 minutes minimum, hour preferred so we can cast when pet haste wears off)
2) It is a separate spell so that we aren't casting pet haste every 15 minutes while the proc lasts for an hour
Quote from: hokarz on April 29, 2008, 08:04:10 PM
I wouldn't say it's viable. I blocked the recourse so it wouldn't overwrite my haste from my clicky tunic. I usually two-box with my shammy and and his haste is better anyway. on raids, it takes up a buff slot since it stacks with chanter haste and the recourse lands on everyone in the group, even the monk pulling. It takes up a buff slot. It's a bad spell, poorly designed and implemented.
/shrugs, if I don't have to play shaman(ie, there is a shaman or enchanter in the group/raid, I just use unparalleled voracity. Penchant never gets memmed unless we have alot of melees and i'm the only haster. Yes I think it's a bad spell, but I'm trying to give it some sunshine :)
Code it to be a 49% haste so it never lands :) .... as every other haste is superior. It is at the end of the line virtually all hastes.
I don't have the tunic, I'm not memming celerity when there are alot of melee, and it does save on potions. It is a joke of a spell at it's duration, but yes I use it in groups without chanters/shamans.
It's as situational as steeltrap jaws.
It is not my #1 method of getting haste, nor is steeltrap my #1 way of slowing. There has to be certain conditions for me to ever memorize penchant to haste my warder. 95% of the time he gets voracity.
By viable, i merely meant you could make a case for it to work in 5% of the EQ content and situations.
:)
Ok, lets see...
(in no particular order
1 - Ferocity - I use this to max resists on certain fights, would be nice if it did more. At least add corruption to the list of resists it affects.
2 - Unlock our Ice Spells
3 - I would like to see our Protective Disc last for more than 12 seconds
4 - Group Haste - Make the haste portion on Peerless the same timer as the pet portion.
5 - Fixed Invis.
6 - Pact of the Wurine - Would be nice if this didn't erase shrink everytime it was cast.
7 - Howl/Bark at the Moon - Decrease the werewolf size, or at least make it the same as I am if I am shrunk. Its a pain in the butt when I cast it and can't see the mob I am attacking since my pet is too big.
8 - New pet models would be nice..or a selection of types and colors(I would love to have a spider from Everfrost :-)). I mean really, I can choose my eye color when I set up a new toon.
9 - New cripple line would be nice. Level 56 is really weak.
10 - Ok, will try to be "polite" can we move our warders when they get summoned? I swear everytime I spawn him someone sends me a tell asking about "How does my warder like lovin from behind"
TY Orbus for re-railing.
An improved defensive disc, thats a good idea.
1 - Unlink fero or make it useful somehow beyond just resists. i.e. triple attack, mod 2's or something.
2 - Make roar of thunder do what it is supposed to do because it doesn't work.(its just another clicky for a free nuke now imo)
3 - A new defensive disc or make the one we have last longer. (see above for a reason why)
4 - Unlink the ice nukes, poison ones I could see why but why change the ice ones now when they were always unlinked beore is beyond reasoning. (Why is the vish clicky neck linked with the rest of the ice nukes? come on now really)
5 - Make the peerless recourse last as long as the pet haste does, or just give us a group haste and quit wasting our time and money to have to buy haste potions.
6 - A set duration invis, all other casters except clerics have them(not talking about IVU spell).
7 - Make the pact of wurine stay small when we have to cast it every 30min. or give us the option like a shaman who can use illusion with theirs.
8 - Make our dots worthwhile, even with max crit aa's they blow.
9 - A new cripple line type of spell.
10 - I like the Tracking idea, if a beastlord is supposed to be one with the animals why cant we track?
My List:
(In order of importance. Couldn't contain it to just 10 8-) )
1. Ferocity - mod 2/3's, make it more mana efficient, etc. Multiple options to fix this. Basically needs more utility for group and raid settings.
2. Peerless Penchant - Upgrade haste duration or get rid of it. While a few Beastlords do use it for its effect, most have the recourse blocked.
3. Unlock Ice Spells - Need more information to justify why they were locked in the first place.
4. Pact of the Wruine - Allow us to take off the illusion, but keep benefits. Or at least increase duration of the buff.
5. Deaggro - Increase hate reduction from Roar of Thunder.
6. Slow - Less resisted, but much shorter duration would be perfect for group settings and maybe even allow us to pre-slow raid mobs. Percentage of slow would also be less than Shamans/Enchanters.
7. Pets - Maintain the progress we have had on them. SoF gave them just the boost they needed, but don't want to forget about them for the next expansion.
8. Damage Over Time Spells - Very few instances where they are useful.
9. Fixed Invis - We have dealt with this for years. It would be nice to have a self invis finally. Granted, it is not an absolute need though.
10. Defensive Discipline - An upgrade to Protective Spirit would benefit us all around, especially if the hate reduction to Roar of Thunder is not increased. Possibly needs a longer duration.
11. Pet Models - I personally enjoy my white wolf, but many others dislike the look of their warders. Warders such as the Ogre's bear not only look outdated, but are an annoyance to other classes as well.
*EDIT: Made it easier to read.*
1 - Ferocity : unlink and make it usefull plz
2 - Pact of the Wurine : longer duration and allow us to stack another illu on it (main issue is with Bestial Alignment illu)
3 - Deaggro
4 - Unlink our DDs, poison and cold
5 - Peerless Penchant should last longer
6 - There is a bug, when you have been charmed and once you get the control of yourself back, you loose the control of your pet : he doesnt respond to any order any more, we have to suspend/summon him to fix it
7 - BP clickys (TSS, Solt, SoF) : could we have something usefull on SoF BP instead of this crap dot proc again? why not the def disc that everyone one is asking for above
8 - Bulwark of Tri'Qaras : you made it working as intended since last patch thats cool, now could it cost less mana plz? 750m thats 50% more than Dragonscale Guard, it should be about the same mana cost to be usefull
9 - Could we have a way to self cure Malo plz? worst issue in solo is when you cant go in ooc regen because of malo
10-Taste of Blood : make something usefull plz
Someone should mention steeltrap/lockfang. Give us messages when it lands/gets resisted/wears off.
Don't really have it sorted to a list of importance, hence why I had not posted it yet.
1. Aggro issues - Even with Roar, I find myself unable to do much in most regular groups past melee short discs, Howl, and an occasional nuke. Roar will drop the aggro for a moment, then i'll be right back on top after a nuke.
2. Cures - We have fallen behind rangers by a good distance on our curing ability, when we used to be above them in curing. I'll settle for just being able to cure curse in some way, but wouldn't mind a better poison cure.
3. Fero - not sure if it can be made usable again, but it doesn't really get any use with most beastlords I talk to.
4. Penchant - Lower it to 49% and it will solve some of the issue, but you really need to make it better than potion haste in duration.
5. Taste of Blood - extremely low damage improvement for an extremely low amount of time, at an extremely low chance to occur.
6. Pact of the Wurine - Having a 1 second shrink clicky, this hasn't affected me as much, but it would be bothersome to reshrink everytime it was used. The duration could be improved some, and there is a stacking issue with our AA Beastial Alignment.
7. DoTs - They could be made a little more useful somehow, as it stands most of the community doesn't use them.
8. Pet Models - There are new bear models in the game, new cat models in the game, Trolls want their gator back or I thought they did. I'm not sure how hard it is to give us new models for pets... It is rather odd that one of the elders for the beastlord 2.0 is a new model, but the pet for that class is the old model.
9. Lockfang - the dot effect is not really desired by me, and it may be by others, but I would think it's detrimental to enchanters. Also there is no way for the beastlord to know when the slow wears off on lockfang or steeltrap.
10. That's all I have for now.
- Linked Spells: I'm wasn't too upset seeing the poison nukes linked but why our ice spell line? Unlink them or give an explanation why this was suddenly nerfed.
- Ferocity: I use it as a resist buff. Since I don't need a recent version for that I use the level 65 one. I am still waiting for a Fericoty worth casting. I like the idea about adding corruption but that alone wouldn't make me use a newer version.
- Haste: I would like to see a haste that is better than a NPC merchant buyable potion. The current one with a mana cost appropriate for the pet haste buff just isn't cutting it. I would like a 55% group haste with a reasonable timer. Just as a reference: The merchant sold potion (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=77818) is 1.5 sec casting time, 30 minute duration, 50% haste.
- Pact of the Wurine: Make the illusion part optional or remove the conflicts with Bestial Alignement and remove the need to re-shrink after re-casting it. Twice casting the shrink spell after re-casting Wurine just stinks.
- Invisibility: Add a fixed duration invisibility.
- Avoidance Both parent classes have an avoidance buff. Shaman through the Foresight line of spells, Monks through theirr aura. Make the Foresight line castable by beastlords. See also next item.
- Shaman Spells: Beastlords used to be get Shaman spells once the spell was obsolete to Shamans, i.e. Shamans were able to cast better versions. I would like the see our old spell lines refreshed and brought up to date. (And don't tell us we have our own spell lines - the one unique and desirable buff we had left, the Spiritual Light line, can now be bought from NPC merchants at pretty much the strenght of the newest level 1 spell.)
- Pet models: Don't waste resources on changing my kitten to the new model. The current cat model is no cat, it's a caricature of a parody of a cartoon cat. If I wanted cartoon I'd play WoW.
- Community Leaders: When will a beastlord representative be named? I do not want our class to be represented by a player who has a beastie alt but is unable to even read all of the 5 or 6 posts we get here per week.
- Just a reminder: Beastlords were finally restored to treehugger faction with the SoF expansion. Please don't forget to keep us there. :wink:
This is pretty much in order of my preference and if only the first 2-3 things get "fixed" then I will happily come back and start playing again.
1. Cold Nuke Linking - Historically these have never been linked over the last 6 years and don't see a reason to do so now. Poison nukes can remain linked although I would prefer those to be seperate to but can see how that might be overpowering.
2. Peerless Penchant recourse - make it the same duration as the underlying pet haste. As 99% of the people have said it is unusable in its current incarnation, 6 months of complaining about this to all the dev's has seen no response.
3. Dots - If cold nukes remain linked then dots need serious attention to make them viable options for the ever increasing spell line ups we have. Have them either a) increase the damage and resist mod b) decrease cast time and increase resist mod c) all of the above.
4. Ferocity - Keep it linked if you want but make it a viable and useful spell for all beastlords. Those at the leading edge of raiding rarely use it even for resists apart for e-peen reasons to see 4k+ attack. It has a semi-quasi use for lower end beastlords but no where near the function SoE have said it should be. With the linking of them maybe having a group version and single version, but as everyone else has said some mod2/3's or DA/TA.
5. Wurine - Make it like necro lich lines in that the buff is seperate to the illusion. It is annoying to say the least to constantly reshrink or not be able to use those illusions some have paid through the nose for in dkp / Pp.
6. Invisibility - Fixed invis AA or spell. Like everyone else has said all other invis casting classes have one.
7. Lockfang / Steeltrap - A decent idea but again extremely poor implementation. This should be more easily monitored by us to see if the slow lands / wears off. Dot component can be an issue in mez breaking, but the biggest issue is that almost no one uses it.
8. Cures - These need to be bumped in power. Rangers have seen a linking of their heals and cures yet we have stagnated on the cure side and our heals only keeping up in amount. Either give us more powerful cures to counter the obvious advantage the linking of cure/heals rangers have or give us heals that work in the same way.
9. Agro - Since the linking of the poison / cold nukes I haven't seen so much of a problem here, but roar of thunder is still a negligable hate loss at max'd ranks compared the amount of AA's we have to spend on it. One of our parent classes has the most powerful hate loss tool in the game, we should at least have more than the two methods of hate loss we have at the moment i.e. roar of thunder and attack off.
10. Iksar pets - Personal bug bear, 4-5 years these have been bugged in their animation. Whilst many bsts want new models for all which I'm not opposed to. Iksar pets and by proxy bestial alignment for iksars looks rediculous.
1. Add something to fero, there are many good suggestions above like triple attack, crit chance, elemental damage, procs, etc. It should also have corruption resists.
2. Increase duration of the haste recourse from peerless penchant to match the duration of the pet buff.
3. Fix familiars so that they can be used along with warders without killing them when the buff wears off.
4. AA shrink would really be nice so that we don't have to swap spells whenever we cast wurine.
5. Curse cures. Rangers get them, we should too.
6. Swarm pet AA. We are the only pet class without a swarm pet ability.
7. Taste of Blood. Has almost no chance of actually giving a benefit. Most of the time when a mob dies there will be a lag before the next is pulled an engaged, wasting the benefit on the very very rare chance that your pet gets a kill shot. Have it trigger instead after several successful flurries or numbers of crits within 30 seconds or after dealing a certain amount of damage in a given time or something like that. That fits with the "taste for blood" theme and would actually trigger when it can be of use, during a fight instead of after it's over.
8. Fixed invis. Way overdue.
9. Improved cripple, good call.
10. Last and certainly not least. We need a community rep. It's fine that we are all free to submit feedback via PMs to the devs, but if we don't have a rep that is privy to insider discussions, we won't even know when something dumb is going to happen until it hits live and won't have a chance to give our take on it while there is still a chance for change. We NEED a community rep.
1. Cold Nukes - Unlink them, sure the effects of using a lower level nuke over just meleeing become questionable the further down you get the line, but what if you can't melee? That leaves us heavily in the, uh.. cold...
2. Ferocity - Unlink them. make them useful. It's supposed to be a 'short term, high mana cost offensive boosting buff' but the offensive part has died off considerably. If ya slash add a group version and boost the duration we'll end up with a buff similar to Ranger's Predator line.
3. Defensive Abilities - We lost part of our defensive abilities in SoF when the mobs gained strikethrough. We've been #2 in avoidance, and dead last in mitigation among melee DPS/hybrids. With strikethrough cutting into our primary defensive ability, we're going to really be hurting in upper end SoF content.
4. Wurine - Separating the Illusion from the buff would be nice, an alternative would be to make the illusion work like the gnomebot illusion in SHIP (which stacks with other illusions, the most recent one being the one that stays). It could also be made into a version (Pact of the Wurine Pup?) that comes pre shrunken.
5. Lockfang / Steeltrap - Make it more effective as a 'pre-slow' idea instead of as a main slow, change the slow % to 64%, drop the silly counters/fade thing, have it only last 1 minute flat (like growl), and have it take 0.5 seconds to cast. That way we can use it to preslow a mob while we work on getting our main-board slows to stick.
6. Debuff spells - Slow is fine and dandy and all, but with increasing mitigations on slow it's effectiveness is dying, revival of our incapacitate line and an addition of a malo line would be nice fillers for the debuff power lost from slow mitigation.
7. Cures - another dead line that has fallen by the wayside, while (what i consider to be) our parallel class, rangers have gotten an all-in-one heal/cure spell that added another type of counter to their ability to remove, i wouldn't mind a new cure spell or ability so i can finally bag the PoFire clicky i've been holding onto for three+ years.
8. Agro Loss - I believe it has been estimated that at maximum level, Roar of thunder only drops about 500 hate, which is about as much as is gained by hitting harrow once. With no AAs to reduce our agro from spells nor any direct way to drop agro as most other melee classes get (Monk - FD, Rogue - Evade/Escape, Ranger - Jolting Kicks) any beast who is on slow duty in group content will have a tough time balancing out slowing mobs and doing DPS without ending up being the tank for the group.
9. Invisibilty - Fixed duration would be awesome... and i think Mr. Ford is working on just that...
10. Haste - This isn't so much a problem for me, ever since it was fixed from what it was going to be in beta (3-4-5 minute duration on the recourse for each rank) and the time efficiency for the recourse still beats celerity once you get more than one melee in the group. Extending the duration of this, would be a convenience, one which i wouldn't mind. Although having a group version (one which could then be MGB'd on slow nights / pickups where shaman / chanters aren't available) would be really nice.
Out of Game thing: Community Rep / Community Leader from the Beastlord camp, so far as i've heard, no one has been invited who has a beast main, or at the very least they're being quiet about it.
1. Ferocity- Make it useable or just stop upgrading the line. There is no reason to spend spell resource time on a spell that doesnt get used.
2. DoT's- To make them useable they need to have a resist modifier added, shorter duration and hit harder. Without those changes just let our dot line die out. As it is mobs regularly resist the dot and if it does land the only time it will run full course is when soloing, in groups the mob will be long dead before the dot runs it course.
3. Buffs/debuffs- Our shammy side has been slowly dieing out and needs to be revived. We used to be able to buff almost as well as a shammy by using more spell slots then them. Then stat cap busting spells were put in place for shammies and we've been left in the cold since then. Debuffs? Don't make me laugh our last non-slow upgrade was lvl56(?).
4. Cold spells- The spells were left unlinked on purpose by the devs at the time they were developed. Instead of linking them they put on a long recast timer to balance them. Sooo, either unlink the spells again or go back and shorten the recast timer on them. Personally I would prefer a shorter recast timer.
5. Haste haste haste- Haste in a bottle has been better then our best haste (celerity) spell since they came out. Faster cast time and last longer. This made no sense but Peerless makes even less sense and was no fix. It's a mana hog of a spell to have to recast every 15 minutes to haste a group and overwrites the longer lasting haste in a bottle. This is just plain wrong and needs to be addressed. It should of been taken care of in beta but we were ignored then as we are now.
6. Defense- Yeah, I know you went through and redid defensive parses during SoF beta. Guess what, you need to do them again. Slow used to be what saved our hides and allowed us to tank decently but since the all prevalent slow mitigation our tanking has gone down hill. Now mobs have strike through and our ability to tank has gotten even worse.
7. Deagro- Roar of Thunder has not been that good since day one. It damages and mob and has a deagro component that barely covers the dd/debuff portion of the aa. Once we get agro the only real way to get rid of it is to turn off attack and back up while hoping the tank can regain agro. The lesser geared/aa'd the tank the worse the situation is.
8. Two handed weapons- We have zero, nada, nothing, no aa's that helps improve our damage while using them. It's long past due we are given the 2h aa's other classes get to make these a viable option to use over dual wielding. I have to think this is an oversight since we keep getting bst only 2h that drop in the game.
9. Pets came a long ways in SoF and that is much appreciated. Can you now give them via aa or innate run speed mods? It would be nice if they could keep up when we run off with run5.
10. Invis- I do believe we are the only class who can cast invis but don't have a fixed invis. In this case cloudy potions are not better then our invis but they are just as good. Unreliable at best.
Put me down as wanting a class rep again sitting on the 'ol review board. Someone who plays a class as an alt generally doesnt have the same perspective as someone who plays the class as a main.
If at all possible could a moderator keep this list updated at the top of thread? Also, given how different developers cover different areas(and my limited knowledge of beastlords, please organize your gripes/suggestions in a format that is easier for me to correctly forward.
For example:
Spell problems:
- ferocity - brief description of what the problem is
- suggestion
- peerless penchant - brief description of what the problem is
- suggestion
-
-
-
AA's::
- pact of wurine - brief description
- suggested fix
-
-
-
pets
- iksar animation broken
- fluffy isn't strong enough
- we can't heal them fast enough(ficticious examples illustrrating my lack of class knowledge!)
melee
-
-
-
Itemization
-sof gear shortcomings
-
-
-
-
etc.
basically..so I can give the proper developer their own list and them be able to see what you feel your problems are and quickly identify what type of solutions(practical solutions only) you're looking for. When a CL beastlord main is named/appointed(I've requested that one be appointed), a lot of this won't be necessary..I really just don't want to cause any harm by misrepresenting your issues.
Spell problems:
- ferocity - Ineffective for the Mana Cost / Duration
- Make it Cost Less and Last more, akin to Ranger's Predator
- peerless penchant - Haste Recourse does not last long enough for the mana cost
- extend the duration on the recourse
- Cold Nukes - The line was linked with no rime or reason
- an Explanation of why they were linked or a de-linking of the spells.
- Incapacitate - best statistic lowering spell we have
- Add a new one in.
- Steeltrap / Lockfang Jaws - Situational at best, DoT Component makes Lockfang even more situational
- Let Sha's Revenge / Legacy overwrite the spell when it lands
- Remove the counter limit and make it 1 minute duration with 0.5 second cast time
- Abolish Disease / Counteract Poison - Our best cure spells
- Add new better cure spells perhaps a combo group cure like Blood of Nadox or a Heal + cure spell like Potameid Balm
- Invisibility - Lasts a few minute to an hour <random> more often than not fails at a bad time
- Give us a fixed Invis, even if it's Self-Only like Spirit Veil
- Salve of Feldan - has been largely unused due to Promised Mending / Renewal being so much better.
- Reduce the cast time to 0.5 and add a recast time (~12 seconds) and double the amount healed to make it a viable option over or with Promised Mending / Renewal.
AA's::
- pact of wurine - Illusion doesn't stack with Bestial Alignment and makes you Huge sized when cast
- Change the illusion on pact to be like the necromancer line (seperate spell icons) [Preferred]
- Make it so the Illusion doesn't make you so big. [secondary]
- Make the illusion on another spell slot (like Mazicul's Magical Makeup) so that we can cast another illusion. [secondary]
- Roar of Thunder - Hate loss is not as big a gain as it should be
- Increase Hate Loss in some fashion (boost up the initial, add a reduction over time)
- Taste of Blood - Yeah...
- Turn this into a clicky bonus effect like Hobble of Spirits, but instead of getting the 'killshot' spell, you get the Blood Frenzy effect, add a lockout of 20 minutes or so to turn this into a 'burn DPS' AA.
Pets
- iksar animation broken (i don't play an iksar, but they still say this happens)
- Pet Tanking - Pet is tough, but i've still seen him get one rounded on the Fabled sayryn (haven't had Fortify companion on an AE mob so it'll be a bit before i can see how well that does)
- Innate AE mitigation
Melee
- Tanking Ability - SoF introduced mobs with strikethrough, which drops our ability to OT or Tank a mob significantly
- Increase Beastlord Mitigation ability
-
Itemization
- I'm not 'cutting edge' so don't look for much comment from me on itemization although..
- Fabled Valorous Quarterstaff - it's Proc has a knockback which, with a raid of these things, push becomes old world again. (my raiding alliance has 10 of them)
- Remove the Knockback.
spell problems:
-Ferocity: problem is very high mana costs for extremely minimal impact
*recommend significantly lowering mana cost and/or add double attack or duelwield bonuses
-Peerless Penchant: problem is too short duration on recourse.
*recommend extending recourse to 30 minutes as to still be below shaman haste, but at least match potion haste duration
-Celerity: problem is too short duration and very very long cast time. In groups if people ask for haste I hand them haste potions as they last longer and cast quicker
*recommend extending base duration to 30 minutes so with focus can finally be more useful then potions. Shorter cast time
-Shrink: problem is there are tons of clicky items that all classes can use that cast this spell 100x faster than we can.
*recommend making 0.1 second cast time as this is a necessity in most situations and cannot possibly have a negative effect on gameplay
-Infusion of Spirit: problem is this line was never upgraded
*recommend adding a new spell that adds some over cap stat extension. Just keep it below shaman levels of focus stats.
-all of our DoTs: problem is they are often resisted and are not enough damage for their mana costs even when they are not resisted
*recommend significantly increasing their damage and lower their mana cost. Also there is a lack of disease focus items for beastlords making the disease line especially useless.
-spellbreaker's bulwark: problem is its max damage before wearing off is 1 single AE from most high end raids from last couple expansions.
*recommend increasing chance to resist spell to 40% for rk. 1, 50% for rk. 2, and 60% for rk. 3 and increase total mitigation to 45,000 for rk.1 up to 60,000 for rk.3
AA's:
-Paragon of Spirits: problem is it hasn't scaled up at the rate gear has. With players having 20,000+ hp/mana group paragon is only a very weak heal over time
*recommend increasing both the hp & mana regen scaling of the spell
-Pact of the Wurine: problem is requirement of the illusion. I like being a troll, but for me to be at my best I have to be a werewolf and i lose "Slam" in werewolf form
*recommend seperating the buff part from the illusion which would potentially fix the troll losing "Slam" ability in werewolf form as well as the need to reshrink often
-need further levels of double attack & triple attack aa's
*recommend adding AA's for 25 more double attack and 25 more triple attack
-need two-hand blunt AA's: problem is we have much lower dps with even great 2HB weapons.
*recommend adding AA's to increase double & triple attack with 2HB weapons as to make them a viable option for constant use. Will only let us use this skill equally to the other weapons.
-swarm pet AA: problem is we need burst dps as our discs are useless most of the time.
*recommend adding AA's that can summon swarm pets every 5-6 minutes or add AA's that increase the chance that our swarm spell line summons additional pets
Garbuhl,
Do you realize how little 25 more skill in double/triple attack will actually give you? You won't cast fero cuz it's +10 dps..upgrading those to skills to that degree would probably be about the same type of upgrade. More then 10 dps, but still insignificant.
Incorrect. We double attack very often now, even with only a skill of 50. The Bestial Frenzy line that we get adds a percentage based double attack mod to our skill, so any skill increase we get is quite tremendous.
Sure i'd much rather us have double/triple attack skills much nearer other classes, but I figure hoping for baby-steps is much more realistic. As other classes are in the 200+ sure I hope we can get to at least 100 double & tripple attack, but either way I'd just like to see an improvement. Also i'd rather have the constant +10dps from skills then casting 10% of my mana away on fero. That same mana would cast bite & howl which trump that +10dps by a long shot. If fero last for 30+ minutes I'd use it for sure, but as it stands its just not worthwhile to me.
Pets:
pet focus: problem is pet summoning focus items don't have a significant enough impact
*a high end raid pet focus should scale pet dps and hp/stats/ac up more so that a raiders pet is significantly more powerful than a lower end focused pet
I'm just trying to come up with realistic options that would help without needing months of balance work to implement.
Spell problems
- Ferocity - Inefficient in terms of benefit vs. cost
- Suggestions:
Add Mod 2/3's in the form of overcap accuracy/combat effects/etc.
Group version for nearly the same amount of mana cost.
Lessen the cost of the current spell as well as the cool down timer to make it useful.
- Peerless Penchant - Recourse is ineffective and used little. Many have it blocked
- Suggestions:
Increase duration of haste recourse
Change recourse entirely to a crit mod, double attack, or triple attack.
- Incapacitate - No upgrade since level 56. Used for aggro as much as a debuff.
- Suggestions:
New spell along this line is needed in line with current/future expansions.
- Invisibility - Randomness of the duration is a large nuisance.
- Suggestions:
Fixed-Duration, Self-Cast Invisibility Spell
- Cold Spells - Linking of spells cut DPS away from Beastlords. Why was this done?
- Suggestions:
Unlink cold spells if no justification is apparent.
- Cures - Beastlords have no way to cure the Malosina line of spell.
- Suggestions:
New spell or at least an upgrade to current cure spells.
Melee Offensive/Defensive
- Defensive Ability - Beastlords not able to tank as well even with improved mitigation.
- Suggestions:
Upgrade of Protective Spirit Discipline
Itemization
- Breastplate Clicky Effects - Clicky proc for pet not very useful.
- Suggestions:
Need a larger increase in effect or change effect entirely.
Most other problems have been voiced above.
**Spells**
Ferocity
---- Fix it, don't fix it, either way at this point I honestly don't care because the spell line has been dead to me for so long. Just please stop giving me another nonfunctional useless upgrade every time levels increase. I don't use the existing as-is Feros, and I certainly do not require another as-is copy that will also go unused.
Peerless Penchant
---- I'm not opposed to a group haste that has a lesser duration than single target haste, provided I get a single target haste that is better than what any level 60 toon can buy from a potion vendor. Give me a single target upgrade to Celerity that has an hour duration and I'll will gladly continue to buffblock the borked recourse from Penchant with no further complaints.
Ice Nukes
---- Unlink. Nuff said.
Debuff
---- Throwing Incapacitate and Flash of Light at mobs is great for generating agro. Oh wait, I don't need to generate any additional agro. Nevermind. How about a debuff that actually sticks and uhhh ... debuffs? Upgrade my cripple.
Lockfang/Steeltrap line
---- Situational use? Fine. I can live with that. I rarely, rarely use this line but I understand it may be desirable in certain limited scenarios. That being said, stop giving me an upgrade every time levels increase. Its a highly situational spell. In the unlikely event I feel the need to dust off a copy, I can make do with an older version. No problem. Really, its ok.
Damage over Time
---- As I recall, the last time I cast any DoTs was when a group suddenly became sans healer and we played chase the necro for a short while until a new healer replacement arrived. I don't use DoTs because they are exceptionally weak and demonstrate an alarming resist rate. DoTs in present usability could be permanently eliminated from Beastlord spellbooks and I might not even take notice.
**AA's**
Pact of Wurine
---- High annoyance factor coupled with a great AA ability. Address the issues with illusion stacking/blocking, particular with functional illusion like Bestial Alignment. I have little concern that I cannot sport a sporali illusion while I use Wurine. To address illusion issues based on pure convenience or fun factors does me little good. Address the shrink concerns.
Roar of Thunder
---- I require a better (or additional) means to shake agro. Presently, I use Roar in essence as a long-refresh Feral Swipe, because to rely on Roar for agro reduction is both unfeasible and unreliable. Its nothing more than a free hit to me.
Taste of Blood
---- I might buy this AA someday when I far exceed the point of diminishing returns, perhaps right after I max innate intelligence. This AA is so extraordinarily weak that I cry a little bit inside any time I see a fellow beastlord in serverwide channel comment about just having purchased this AA. Taste of No Blood would be a more appropriate name.
**Discipline**
Protection of Spirit
---- As I am consistently forced to walk the thin line between agro and dps, and considering the overall affect of the Roar line is generally inconsequential, I would genuinely appreciate the investigation of a mitigation AA that last longer than 2 ticks.
Only shamans have a way to cure malo-line that is spell based. You might do better suggesting we be put on a low end of Radiant Cure, 1-3.
Agree with just about everything above.
I would like an Attk debuff added to a new spell in our incapacitate line, I would also like this to stack with both shamans and druids debuffs. If that is to much, Gellid Claw as a spell would be nice. This would give us more utility on raids.
I would also like the Growl line not to have to target the warder to be cast, in fact I would like it to be able to be used even if our warder is dead.
Fero, seeing as the devs have said it is to hard to make this spell line useful can we just stop getting upgrades to it?
an upgrade to incapacitate that falls short of the best shaman and 'chanter cripple, but with a -30 magic resist. It would give us some utility in groups and when solo'ing, but wouldn't take the main debuffing job away from those two classes. If it stacked with cripple line, that would be even better.
Spell problems:
- Incapacitate - Our last upgrade to this line was at level 56, can we please see an upgrade to at least cripple.
- Peerless Penchant - The recourse is rather annoying to raids as it takes up an uneccessary buff slot since it provides no added benefit to the shm/chanter hastes. Would it be possible to make the recourse beneficial to raids, i.e. add something that stacks with chanter haste. Or just remove the recourse, and give us a group haste as a seperate spell
- Ferocity - Usefulness of this spell has been on the decline for a couple of expansions now. Add Mod's and make a group version to make it usefull for raids/groups.
- Debuff - Since our parent class is a shaman can we get a low level resist debuff from the shaman line, or a debuff that stacks with the druid/shaman lines to increase our desire in groups/raids. The Gelid Claw proc from the BST only anguish weapon as a spell was a good example.
AA's:
- Pact of the Wurine - First off, I love this AA. It's the constant reshrinking that is cumbersome. Can you consider giving us shrink AA's. Self only would solve the issue of having to swap out spells/cast/wait for refresh/cast again/swap back in old spell. A targetable shrink wouldn't be gamebreaking either, one for pets too.
- Self Invis - not really an issue, but since all other invis casting classes have an invis AA, it would be very nice to have one also.
- Two-Handers - I love to have an option to use 2HB in certain situations without sacrificing the huge DPS loss from using two 1-handers. Some 2HB AA's could remedy this for us.
- Roar of Thunder - Good Idea, but has turned into a bonus attack with a long recast. I don't know if retuning this AA is an option or possibly giving us a different AA on a seperate timer to help reduce agro. An deagro AA that refreshes about every 60-90 seconds would be very heplful in group situations(as well as raid) especially if the Bst is the designated slower.
- AA slow Am I dreaming?
- Tracking I have always thought bst's should have an innate track ability as a class ever since Luclin was released. Animals are master trackers. Possibly give us track with a cap of 50ish?
- Taste of Blood This AA needs retuning, it's slightly above innate charisma on my AA priority list, and only barely after I consider how much plat this could possibly save me on Summoning Stones after I die.
Melee:
- Our ability to tank mobs in SoF has noticibly decreased.
- Our only defensive disc only lasts 12 seconds and hasnt seen an upgrade....ever?
- Incapacitate -give us a new one and make it original by adding decrease accuracy component to it
- Levitate - no more bat wings please
- Ferocity - pretty much what everyone is saying. We need a designer who can actually spend some quality time upgrading this line.
- Peerless Penchant - remove haste and put new version of our Frenzy of Spirit there
- Haste - It's about time we get at least Talisman of Celerity type of spell from shaman line
- Defensive disc - needs an upgrade or give us 12 sec 100% reposte disc and be sure those two are on a different timer
- Invisibility - Self, fixed and AA based
- Debuff - we really need a line which removes malo crap. There are zones when all mobs cast malo all the time. Fast regen resting state was a great idea so keep it that way please.
- DoTs - make them more useful by increasing damage, lowering resits or by adding something useful to them like snare or an illusion
- New ability - Bestial Punch - causes your target to FD/drop down for rew sec...hehe, that would be awesome
Quote from: Inphared on April 30, 2008, 09:15:25 PM
Incorrect. We double attack very often now, even with only a skill of 50. The Bestial Frenzy line that we get adds a percentage based double attack mod to our skill, so any skill increase we get is quite tremendous.
It's the first point in double attack that's the most significant..raising it by 15-25 wouldn't add all that much(rashere has posted as such in the past), but believe what you want. Your AA line not withstanding..I haven't looked at it that much(my beast has like 15 aa since sof launched), but the base skill..the first point is by far the largest.
No one will debate that the first point in double attack is the most important, I'm sure most of us remember how big of a change that was with TSS. What I believe Inphared meant was that because of our beastial frenzy AAs each skill point in double attack adds more double attack for beastlords than it would for other classes.
Also, beastial frenzy is from like PoP, with 5more ranks from DoD so I'm not sure what your beast having 15AA since SoF launch has to do with this. (You mentioned earlier he had 600AA so he should have bought these long ago)
I'm not really sure what he has anymore..he doesn't get out much. Anyway, cold nukes aren't getting unlinked..I got told no a few hours ago. Sorry.
Thanks for the info Jebasiz...now push for a REAL upgrade to the next cold nuke we get in November......no 100 hps more damage crap please. 2k base damage will satisfy me. Thanks
I'm just trying to bridge a gap for you all. A beastlord main can "push" for changes once they're appointed.
We got an answer. That is a step forward, at least you didn't get ignored like my PMs. Thanks again for doing this.
Did they have any reasons why they got linked in the first place?
Also, thank you to whoever fixed my account. :)
I suppose I should post a real reply instead of just commenting on everyone else's lists.
I tried to list them in order or importance.
Spell Problems
Ferocity- As it has been said many times, the spell sucks. It has sucked for a very long time. Please do something with this spell to make it useful in some form (mod 2/3s, significant mana reduction, significant duration increase to make it more of a long term buff). No group version please, I don't want to have a 10minute buff that costs 5k mana.
DoTs- These are very lackluster in their current form. Since we just found out that our cold nukes aren't getting unlinked I think we should try to get these upgraded. I think that two of the following should be done to them to make them useful.
1)Increase the damage (above the normal cut/paste upgrades) by 20-30%
2)Give them a -resist check
3)Give them a .5 second cast time so that we don't lose so much melee dps when trying to use them.
This was referring to poison dots. I personally wouldn't mind if we stopped getting disease dots, I don't even know where I would try to find a disease focus.
Steeltrap Jaws- As I said before I would like to see some sort of message to the player about when the spell lands/gets resisted or wears off. I like the idea of the spell and would probably use it alot more if I wasn't clueless as to its effectiveness.
Peerless Penchant- Please remove the recourse from the spell entirely. Give us a targettable group haste (50%) with the same duration and the same mana cost as peerless. At least this way the spell gets affected by AAs and buff duration focus. It also removes the possible issues on raids/groups when rebuffing our warders with a puller in the group (also ruining ooc which i HATE).
AA Problems
Invis - Give us a fixed duration invis.
Pact of the wurine- Please make it so that beastial alignment automatically overwrites pact when activated. Also increase the duration of pact significantly (I would even pay extra AAs for this) so that I don't have to reshrink x2 every 35minutes when pact needs refreshed.
Roar of Thunder- Please do one of two things with this AA.
1) Greatly increase the hate dropped so that we can use this AA as I believe it was intended.
2) Decrease the duration to 30-90seconds so that we can use this as another "free" damage key.
Random
Tiny companion instant click on SoF earrings. Such a small thing, but I love it so so so much. Please thank Merloc.
I hate the spell linkings too, I enjoyed abusing mana resurgence as much as the rest of you.
Focused paragon rocks, please keep it that way.
I don't want a cure, unless it is self only. I think that focused paragon+useful version of ferocity+upper-middle tier dps is where the beastlord class should be. Giving us a cure adds another dimension for balance and it would probably be taken out of our dps.
I'm somewhat against a debuff for the same reason as cures. However, if ferocity is unfixable than this spell could take its place for us. A stack-with-everything type debuff would be a nice replacement utility wise for ferocity imo.
-Long winded but I think I said everything I wanted.
Quote from: Hzath on May 02, 2008, 04:39:35 AM
II don't want a cure, unless it is self only. I think that focused paragon+useful version of ferocity+upper-middle tier dps is where the beastlord class should be. Giving us a cure adds another dimension for balance and it would probably be taken out of our dps.
I'm somewhat against a debuff for the same reason as cures. However, if ferocity is unfixable than this spell could take its place for us. A stack-with-everything type debuff would be a nice replacement utility wise for ferocity imo.
winded but I think I said everything I wanted.
You see this is exactly what I miss now about the class. We started out as a utility class that could dps too which I loved to play. Now we are just another dps class with a little utility, not so much fun for me. Mainly I believed this happened because the other utility classes had a fit so the devs stopped updating that side of us and had nothing else to give but dps.
I personally would love to see our utility returned to the class at the cost of dps. But hey, we each have our own vision of what the class should be and that's been a lot of our problem dealing with the devs. We've never been able to give a united front for the direction to take the class.
QuoteAnyway, cold nukes aren't getting unlinked..I got told no a few hours ago. Sorry.
Was there any reason why? And why there is the need to link a spell line that exists since the beginning of the class after several years?
Hypothetical:
BSTs as a class are parsing very high nowadays, borderline too high. And, apparently they think it's too long until next expansion to simply let us stagnate. Main options to remedy that are lower utility (I'm holding on to focused perf to my last breath), lower melee skills again (harder to do mid-expansion, hell of a ruckus, but more fair imo as it will affect the high end more), or link some spells. They chose link some spells, which is the least messy. [/hypothetical]
I agree with Khauruk about our dps gains but don't think they linked the spells to rein us in for the simple reason all the classes got whacked with a nerf bat. Think it does have more to do with the next expansions since spells/aa's for it showed up right after the linking. I lean more to them doing it now so all the squawking is done and we are used to it before the new expansion comes out.
Quote
You see this is exactly what I miss now about the class. We started out as a utility class that could dps too which I loved to play. Now we are just another dps class with a little utility, not so much fun for me.
i would like to know which utility do u think we are missing? > paragon : with focused paragon it never been more usefull
> debuff : Roar of thunder debuff part is as good as Ench cripple lvl76 with 4bst in raid we even can keep it up permanently, and Gelid Claw is priceless if u have it
> offtank : even if we have the worst AC return of all melee class could use few upgrade here, we are still able to offtank trash in raid, and we are doing not so bad in grp content,
> slow : we are still the 3rd slowing class, we have no prob at all to slow in any SoF content
> backheal : we are a good support to help, with AAs and focus we crit up to 7k max,
> buffs : prob the only point where we really loss utility, fero useless and no upgrade for sta/agi/dex/str/regenhp buffs
the only utility we are really missing is ferocity and we all know last CCs all worked hard to get it back, and we are still asking for it each time we can
I dont think we need more utility, I dont even think we never had more utility than nowaday (except for fero) while dps upgrade is a part of the game mechanic : new expansion> stronger mobs> better dps.
Quote from: Icekracker on May 02, 2008, 03:08:34 AM
Did they have any reasons why they got linked in the first place?
Also, thank you to whoever fixed my account. :)
He had his reason. I really can only talk to devs while i'm raiding most of the time(I'm east coast, they're west)..so I don't always have time to try toget reasons/explanations. He didn't seem to hesitate at all when I asked..so there's really no reason to try to pry an explanation out of him on this, imo. Time/effort is just better spent elsewhere.
The stacking of you alignment and wurine is something I brought up. I'm not sure how to get around that since they are both illusions..other then suggesting a split of the buff and illusion like necromancer lich spells do now. I think that's probably a discussion/topic that a beastlord should have with devs, not a necro..so I dropped it before making any suggestions. I'm not sure they're willing to just strip the alignment illusion either..but that could be another possible solution as well. If there's uniform support for that..I'll suggest it on your behalf. Let me know.
Unfortunately, you're right. Guess we just have to move on from the linking and find other means to make up for it.
I believe most of us would like to have the buff split up into 2 parts. This would allow us to keep the benefits and use other illusions and Beastial Alignment as needed.
However,the issue of reshrinking would still be present. Even if the buff were split, every recast would still return us to normal size. Other than removing the illusion completely or extending the buff, I don't see any solution to this, unless they can code it so we don't have to reshrink.
There are several fixes that can be made to the Wurine / Bestial Alignment issue.
1) Turn Wurine into a necro form buff. Two parts, one clickable.
2) Change the illusion slot on Wurine to slot three, like Rabid Bear or Pact of the Wolf.
3) Change the illusion slot on Bestial Alignment, to be like Pact of the Wolf.
Either of the three will serve a good purpose. I would personally like #1, since I don't like being a werewolf, but to each their own.
Quote from: Icekracker on May 03, 2008, 03:17:32 AM
Unfortunately, you're right. Guess we just have to move on from the linking and find other means to make up for it.
I believe most of us would like to have the buff split up into 2 parts. This would allow us to keep the benefits and use other illusions and Beastial Alignment as needed.
However,the issue of reshrinking would still be present. Even if the buff were split, every recast would still return us to normal size. Other than removing the illusion completely or extending the buff, I don't see any solution to this, unless they can code it so we don't have to reshrink.
Re-shrinking shouldn't be necessary for wurine. It wasn't for a friend the other day(clicking wurine off didn't remove shrink, recasting wurine didn't make him big). He didn't use alignment though..so I'm not sure on that.
Recast of Wurine *always* grows me right back up. Muy irritating on raids.
Always grows me back up too. Very annoying.
What race are you two?
I have the same problem as a vah shir. You're welcome to roll a toon on maelin and i'll show you.
Race doesn't matter. It works for any illusion, for any class, and any race. If you cast an illusion, you will be grown to the default size of that illusion. Recasting it while it hasn't faded results in the same effect.
And Jebasiz is already on Maelin :-P
Time to bother him then
funny thing is when the buff is stripped (not sure if it does it if it fades or not since i only let it fade when i zone) you retain the shrinked size.
1. Deaggro - We need either an upgrade to Roar of Thunder and to Hastened Roar of Thunder to get rid of aggro. There is something on allah's as a spell that is a 10k damage drain of sorts. Now, put that into an aggro spell or AA lower the damage so we don't rule. I think then we would have another good ALTERNATIVE to getting rid of aggro.
2. Incapaciate - Needs an upgrade for us. I would love to see this and use this spell once more. I really think it helped us before and we need that help again.
3. Shaman buffs - We need overcap stats added to are Focus spell. Even if it was overcap 10 on STR,STA,DEX, and AGI, I would use it more than I do.
4. Fero - I know this is low on my list, but I am afraid that this will be hard to fix and be useful again. If something can be done within good means, then please, fix it.
5. Fixed Invis - Are regular invis drops too much at times when we need to be invis. Give us a fixed invis that lasts at least 10 minutes.
6. Pet slow - Get rid of it and give back are casting slow or let are pet give us tells to inform us that 'The mob is partially slowed, master'. Then if the slow is resisted or the slow wears off, have the pet send tells in the form of, 'The mob has resisted slow', and 'The mob's slow is wearing off.' If your pet can send you tells when you suspend it, it sure as heck should be able to do it for slows.
7. Tracking - I have always wanted to track mobs. Beastlords should be able to track. Just a crazy idea but, how about giving the ability to are 'pet' since they can probably 'track' easier than we can and have like, your pet tells you these mobs are nearby and comes up with a track list like the tracking classes.
8. Call of the Wild - Beastlords should get this from the shaman host of AAs. We should be able to call a person back. This AA would be helpful. Increase the reuse time from shaman or druid call and increase the AA cost and hey, you get a gimp beastlord who can bring a group back sooner and recover faster. That is, if the beastlord survives, hehe.
9. Healing - Are healing spell for us to use on ourselves needs to be upgraded just a bit more. Since the increase in HP in the gear, our heals are becoming more and more useless. Only time they are nice or decent is when they crit.
10. Pet Swarm AA - I am told that we are the only class without a Pet Swarm AA. I am not sure what timer is on the other classes, but just increase ours since we can also just cast a Pet Swarm spell.
I hope most of these ideas that have floated about are used or are at least put into the game with the next expansion. Most of this stuff needs to be looked at or we will be back in the same shape we were before.
SoF expansion helped us regain are footing, now we need to take some steps forward so we don't get lost again as a class.
Quote from: Smobon on May 04, 2008, 04:30:34 AM
1. Deaggro - We need either an upgrade to Roar of Thunder and to Hastened Roar of Thunder to get rid of aggro. There is something on allah's as a spell that is a 10k damage drain of sorts. Now, put that into an aggro spell or AA lower the damage so we don't rule. I think then we would have another good ALTERNATIVE to getting rid of aggro.
2. Incapaciate - Needs an upgrade for us. I would love to see this and use this spell once more. I really think it helped us before and we need that help again.
3. Shaman buffs - We need overcap stats added to are Focus spell. Even if it was overcap 10 on STR,STA,DEX, and AGI, I would use it more than I do.
4. Fero - I know this is low on my list, but I am afraid that this will be hard to fix and be useful again. If something can be done within good means, then please, fix it.
5. Fixed Invis - Are regular invis drops too much at times when we need to be invis. Give us a fixed invis that lasts at least 10 minutes.
6. Pet slow - Get rid of it and give back are casting slow or let are pet give us tells to inform us that 'The mob is partially slowed, master'. Then if the slow is resisted or the slow wears off, have the pet send tells in the form of, 'The mob has resisted slow', and 'The mob's slow is wearing off.' If your pet can send you tells when you suspend it, it sure as heck should be able to do it for slows.
7. Tracking - I have always wanted to track mobs. Beastlords should be able to track. Just a crazy idea but, how about giving the ability to are 'pet' since they can probably 'track' easier than we can and have like, your pet tells you these mobs are nearby and comes up with a track list like the tracking classes.
8. Call of the Wild - Beastlords should get this from the shaman host of AAs. We should be able to call a person back. This AA would be helpful. Increase the reuse time from shaman or druid call and increase the AA cost and hey, you get a gimp beastlord who can bring a group back sooner and recover faster. That is, if the beastlord survives, hehe.
9. Healing - Are healing spell for us to use on ourselves needs to be upgraded just a bit more. Since the increase in HP in the gear, our heals are becoming more and more useless. Only time they are nice or decent is when they crit.
10. Pet Swarm AA - I am told that we are the only class without a Pet Swarm AA. I am not sure what timer is on the other classes, but just increase ours since we can also just cast a Pet Swarm spell.
I hope most of these ideas that have floated about are used or are at least put into the game with the next expansion. Most of this stuff needs to be looked at or we will be back in the same shape we were before.
SoF expansion helped us regain are footing, now we need to take some steps forward so we don't get lost again as a class.
Pet swarm with HATM and a warder this is unlikely.
Mages are the only class to get a permanent pet, swarm and rampaging servant..which is where that suggestion would put you. If this happened it would probably come next expansion at a price of stagnating melee dps or other abilities. That or it just wouldn't be significant enough to really be any good(see the necro fear spells we got more recently).
tracking..whoever brings that up is likely to get laughed out of the CL program.
Deagro, perhaps you could have someone more knowledgable bring up thunderous roar to nodyin and ask him to make the deagro better and refresh faster.
Healing..would take parsing and some math to show a clear need, before you'd get anymore then the standard X% upgrade to your healing spells. I don't really know one way or another if it's needed, but if someone is willing to do the work..I'm willing to talk to people about it.
Rez - i'd be careful requesting this. I can understand the desire, but nothing like that comes w/o a cost of paid for through other abilities stagnating. A jack of all trades, master of none..often leaves you unemployed, or self employed. I think paladin's are the only hybrid to get rez..It's likely to stay that way.
Fixed invis, cripple, slow revamp.. all seem viable. I'm not sure about functionality(of code) of the pet telling you slow is off. Maybe it could be done graphically with some ui changes or something.
From the prespective of a lvl 75 BST who has pretty crappy gear so take it with a grain of salt (on an open wound if you like but I don't insist you put it on an open wound)
1) DPS - We need an increase now that are spells are linked. Could also be done with itemization but as an average geared person the linking of spells has hurt me more than a top end raider.
2) Buffs - I have are spiritual line (HP/ATK), Sheilding Line (+HP forgot the name of it), and Regen (HP/Mana regen) that I can contribute to a group. I lose the Spiritual line if a ranger joins, the +HP if a Shaman joins, and leaves me with simple my regen line. We need over cap buffs like are shaman leaniage. Shaman have a 1 buff for all these things, give as a 4 buffs for 1 level lower treatment (would be Dire equivalance approx. I think, TSS?).
3) Haste - 30 Minute Haste (group or individual) enouph said, quit jerking us around developers.
4) Slow - Still don't have my lvl 70 slow. Give us another 65% slow (to make the whining Chanty's and shamman happy) but with a better resist modifier (-40 magic?) and buyable for those who never got there lvl 70 rune. Again, this affects me more than the end game raider.
5) Fixed Duration Invis - Spell or AA, I don't care, every class who can cast a form of invisibility has the ability to have a 10 minute duration fixed invisubility except us. Again, quit jerking us around.
6 & 7) Ferocity amd DoT's - Combining these 2 as I don't really see why we have these 2 lines. Ferocity has had some very good suggestions and DoT's casted by us just tickle the mob's in a very angry way. Figure it out, get back to us, and let us vote on it. Neither of these 2 lines are useful to us. even to a pretty pitiful lvl 75 BST. Hate to see what they are like to a top end BST. /Shudder
8) Pet Utility - Mages whine if we have a pet better or equal to them so we are stuck in a rock-and-a-hard-place. Pet slow and snare are good directions. The randomness stinks about both as you can't control when they land but no complaints here. Just keep the utility buffs coming. Mabye more pet defensive AA's, innate run AA's for pets, pet swarm AA's, ect... Be creative, we'll listen even if the Mages wont
9) Healing - Don't really see it as an issue when comparing myself to a Ranger but having the benefit they have on their upper end heals would be nice.
10) Defensive Capabilities/Agro Issue's - Because we mellee and slow in groups (and occasionally raids) we need to be able to take a hit or two. We need more ways to do this. Roar of Thunder doesn't cut it. Mabye if it was usable every 15 sec's or better, or our defensive Disc refreshed quicker but currently this is a detrimental sutuation to us. If I slow and its resisted (which it does using the lvl 65 version), it forces me to recast 2-3 times increasing my agro very quickly, so I risk taking one for the team trying to slow it or having the team take one cause I wasn't willing to gain agro. An AA that deals damage while also reducing damage is kinda funny in concept (neat lore wise though) but doesn't work in practicality. And my defensive Disc saves me once every 2-3 mobs. Also not good depending how the RNG is treating you on a certain nite. There're many ways this can be addressed but in the end it has to be addressed. *** This should be in the top 5 (#1B), not #10 where I put it ***
Again this is from my limited perspective. But again I'm also airing it because everyone seems to be posting what the level 80's need who raid. I don't fit that mold. I raid once a moth at best, I'm not at the top end, and I'm tired of seeing patch messages addressing the concerns of the lvl 80 raiders and not the community at large. Mabye some one will read this who can do something about it but I doubt it. I would have to posted on the Sony boards for that and thats just futility in the simplist form.
Quote from: Jebasiz on May 05, 2008, 05:52:27 AM
Healing..would take parsing and some math to show a clear need, before you'd get anymore then the standard X% upgrade to your healing spells. I don't really know one way or another if it's needed, but if someone is willing to do the work..I'm willing to talk to people about it.
I think what the community is asking for isn't a % increase but the ability to remove detrimental counters like Rangers have. Although the more I look into it, it looks more like a class defining ability cause I don't see the other healing classes with that ability to heal and remove detrimental counters but I could be wrong.
Quote from: Jazzera on May 03, 2008, 12:39:15 AM
Quote
You see this is exactly what I miss now about the class. We started out as a utility class that could dps too which I loved to play. Now we are just another dps class with a little utility, not so much fun for me.
i would like to know which utility do u think we are missing? > paragon : with focused paragon it never been more usefull
> debuff : Roar of thunder debuff part is as good as Ench cripple lvl76 with 4bst in raid we even can keep it up permanently, and Gelid Claw is priceless if u have it
> offtank : even if we have the worst AC return of all melee class could use few upgrade here, we are still able to offtank trash in raid, and we are doing not so bad in grp content,
> slow : we are still the 3rd slowing class, we have no prob at all to slow in any SoF content
> backheal : we are a good support to help, with AAs and focus we crit up to 7k max,
> buffs : prob the only point where we really loss utility, fero useless and no upgrade for sta/agi/dex/str/regenhp buffs
the only utility we are really missing is ferocity and we all know last CCs all worked hard to get it back, and we are still asking for it each time we can
I dont think we need more utility, I dont even think we never had more utility than nowaday (except for fero) while dps upgrade is a part of the game mechanic : new expansion> stronger mobs> better dps.
Though I tried to make it clear it was only my opinion let me answer you.
1) Paragon- Basically useless with todays pools. Focused Paragon-awesome aa but not enough by itself to return our utility.
2) Debuff- Roar as a debuff is decent and always has been and I always save roar for named just because of the debuff portion. Roar was billed to us as the deagro tool we had been asking for and as such is a miserable failure. Plus, as a debuff tool how do you intend to debuff every mob in a group situation? You can't, another utility lost via inattention by the devs.
3) Offtank- Still doable in groups/raids but our incoming damage has gone up dramatically. That has killed our ability to solo along with the nerfing of slow. I don't expect any help here either since they looked at defensive parses during beta and did some tweaking to all classes. Just don't feel we got anywhere near the help needed. We have a couple monks that can tank raid mobs for amazing lengths of time when trying to get a tank back up and running again. Bst just get splattered.
4) Slow- Still the 3rd best slower in the game (if you don't count our pet), yep. But SOE has seriously nerfed slow itself which is a major loss in utility. Matte r of fact, if you crunch the numbers the gap between all slowing classes has really narrowed down by the time mobs mitigate slow.
5) Healing- I don't want to be a healer and never have but our heals in no way have kept up with mob dps. Big deal if you can crit for 7k, mobs laugh at 7k now. Used to be if the healer bit it I could usually step back and pump out enough healing to keep the tank up by myself. Luckily I havent had to in sof but seriously doubt I can keep up a tank solo in most tier 2 content.
6) Buffs- They're a joke now days. Back before shammy's could break the stat cap they could toss out a couple of buffs and get the group going capped out. We had to fill the groups buff box to do the same thing but came fairly close to buffing as well as that shammy. Now? We don't come within a mile of buffing as well as a shammy. I can't even remember the last time someone pestered me for a buff while just hanging out like they used to.
i have no order to my top 10.. but i personally would not stop at 10.. i think we need about 20 fixes atm
1) give us a set duration fixed invis
2) if you are going to keep all our spells linked, we need a dps boost.. increase double attack and tripple attack 15%?
3) fero .. what is that.. oh yea.. that buff every one asks for but i never mem bc of the bennifit they get from it.. make it usefull... we are seeing less of a return out of upper end geared people
4) group haste casted with the beasty pet haste.. WHAT WAS YOU SMOKIN??.. if you wish to link them.. atleast give us a duration worth the cast.. not annoy us by puttin in this spell.. its almost as usefull as having the spell due north... dont get me wrong, pet haste is nice, but the group haste part needs a tad work
5) our midigation has fell over the years.. far below where i think it should be. we need it to be raised.. at one point we were at or near the same as monks.. i think that would be about right as we are PART monk... so 80% mid of a monk would be about right.. not 40%..
6) we need new disc.. defensive and offensive.. only one defensive worth useing and it only lasing long enough for you to fart is almost as bad as giving some one a pay check and tell them they cannot cash it for 4 weeks.. on a burn fight my offensive disc is used and takees forever for a repop.. i can almost watch christmas come around before i get to recast..
7) we need new heals, if we are part shaman.. getting shaman spells.. by level 80 should we not at least have a hot that is sim to level 50-60 shaman (forget when they get the decent one)
8) give us some kind of resist debuff.. or make our slow unrestable on casts... this is something that just needs to be done... if we are to have the worst slow (not counting bards) then give us some kind of bone here
9) make the recast time on slow faster.. i mean if a mob resists slow 3x.. mob will be dead before i will have a chance to cast again.. thus putting healers out of manna... and giving beastys a bad rep about not being able to slow mobs...
10) you gave healers a ward that will heal over time.. enchanters a arura for manna.. give us some kind of paragon type ward or overhaste or fero time ward.. and make it worth buying.. if you just gonna program some low level version like 1 manna per tick just to piss us off.. then you not really doing your job... if you giving us a overhaste that is only like .5% then dont worry... if you giving fero with only +5attack.. then stay on the couch and keep watch tv...
11) give us some kind of track- even if it is for limited range.. beastlords are the lords of beasts.. and my understanding is that they are able to track down their prey and kill it.. (lore)
12) why give us a limited pet... give us a swarm pet type spell.. (not talking howl at the moon) think of mages.. they get a pet.. swarm pet and another pet sim to our howl at the moon
13) we need a better Incapaciate ... i mean why even have this spell memed now.. i notice maby 2damage dif on mobs when i cast this.. i can have a useless dot memed in its place
14) DOTS.. why give us dots that a level 50ish shaman had.. when all other spells are leveling up about 20 levels behind shamans then we need dots about same...
15) warurine .. make it last longer and make it so shrink will not be effected one way or another..
16) 2hb .. saw this earlier .. give us a better ability to use 2hb.. if you wish to put bst as a useable class at least make it compareable dps to sim 1hand weps of that erra
17) change the paragon line a bit.. true the focus paragon gave us a jump.. but that is nothing in top end raids any more.. give us an ability like... 20k manna instant for whole group once every 20 hours .. or 20k manna instant for 1 person once every 5 hours.. make it worth it.. dont give us a timer that we will have to see our grandkids graduate from school before it repops.. atleast make it usefull in raids 1x per day.. it should not be over powering as the abundance of beastys in the guilds nowdays.. i mean we MAY have 3 beastys on any given raid.. and i am in one of the top 15 guilds... i know other guilds may have more or less.. but i doubt they bring more than 5 to raids daily..
18) fix the ikslar pet. when he/she is meleing it will "lock up". true dps will not drop but this should be a simple fix
19) fix the clickys on the breasts plates to something usefull.. true some are usefull.. but not all are.
20) in general get more gm's on all servers..
Ok, lets see...I will try and organize this like you asked
(in no particular order)
Spells:
--Group Haste-- Either give us a decent group haste or make the group haste from Peerless the same timer as the pet portion. Either will work for me.
--Invis-- A fixed invis with instant cast, or at least a fixed invis and an instant cast invis so I can quit carrying potions.
--Cripple/Debuffs--A new upgrade to this line is way overdue.
--Ice Spells--I saw your post that they will not be unlinked. I liked the suggestion that our next one be a respectable increase in damage then.
AA's
--Ferocity-- At this time I use this to max resists on certain fights, please add corruption resists to the list it increases. Everyone else has already pointed out that this needs something else added to make it beneficial again.
--Pact of the Wurine--Fix the shrink/reshrink issues.
--Howl/Bark at the Moon--Decrease the werewolf size, or at least make it the same as I am if I am shrunk. Its a pain in the butt when I cast it and can't see the mob I am attacking since my pet is too big
Discs:
--Protective Spirit-- Lasts 12 seconds. Extend it please.
Misc.:
--Ok, will try to be "polite" can we move our warders when they get summoned? I swear everytime I spawn him someone sends me a tell asking about "How does my warder like lovin from behind"
Rehash of general Pet issue -- Unavoidable Unintended Pet Targeting --
Specifically, effects where my pet is the only valid target.
Epic clicky effect does not bring my warder on target -- love it! Hobble AA does not bring my warder on target -- love it! However, every spell-gem pet effect does indeed bring my warder on target. Pet haste, procs, heals, shrink ... all require the presence of my own pet to even cast the spell, I get that.
While some of these cast spell effects are typically downtime buffs, there are several pet spells which are typically only used as heat-of-battle type spells and the process of hello pet target followed by retarget the mob is just aggravating, especially in scenarios where there may be more than one mob and a simple F8 doesn't cut it. The Growl and Promised series, as well as the Empathic Fury discipline are prime examples.
Oh, and the Growl series and Empathic Fury disc should be reworked. Both should make me the prime target and push the partnered recourse to my pet, not the other way around. As it is, if I should lose my warder, I also lose the ability to fire off Growl or Empathic Fury. At least the ol' Bestial Fury discipline was still usable when the warder had croaked hihi.
I don't think they need to keep 'reworking' Roar of Thunder. They keep adding AAs to bring it down in reuse time and increase deaggro.
They need to give us an alternate spell or another AA to use besides Roar of Thunder.
I really don't think tracking is a bad idea, could even bring back some of are utility.
Giving us Call of the Wild or a different version that would be 'worse' than shaman and druid, could possibly bring back are utility or need in a group.
If we don't get it, ok, but then at least increase are double atk and triple atk to be better off than we are right now.
I dont think we need another offensive disc, but we need another defensive disc, because it is long overdue, it should have came out with are newest offensive disc. Only reason I say we dont need another offensive disc is because of are bestial alignment. That would be nice to have upgraded.
Upgrades to Focus Paragon would be useful, but right now, using it in a crystallos group, works well if ya use it once it pops. Have gotten so good at it, the warrior is more likely to be out of endurance before the cleric is out of mana. I think are utility in that respect is back. Now we just need are dps and we wont be too shabby.
Perhaps an upgrade again with Feral Swipe might help dps, but are Harrow needs to be badly upgraded more than monks. There is a huge gap between the discs, it needs to be closer on are end, and possibly just cost more endurance. Only time I lose a lot of end is when I use Emphatic Fury. Other than that, endurance is too abundant, let us use it some more than we are at the moment.
I'm locking this thread now as it has mainly run it's course, and will attempt to summarize it somewhat in the opening post (last couple weeks of classes, so not much time right now).
I'll also be tossing in some "negative" feedback on some of the suggestions, as to why you shouldn't expect to see some of the requests (Call of the Wild, second defensive disc, large double attack boost). Well, maybe I won't...some say I'm too negative already :).
Either way, thanks for the feedback, and I hope that it is/has been read.
Once again, Jeb - thanks for forwarding this. There'll be some more specific spawn threads on some of these issues, so look for those hopefully this weekendish.