Spires of the Savage Lord

[Catnip_Inny]

I thought the general consensus was that thrid spire was broken and now is just useless. Second spire really didnt match up DPS wise wth first. So First spire was the only one worth using... 

I use first spire for everything,  I thought maybe in DPS groups i should start using third on raids, but never did i think Second would be the best of the three...

[jitathab]

In a raid situation though, and if in a DPS group, wouldnt first spire be better still? 60 DPS per person x 5 = 300, and second = 220 personal? So if grouped with 4 melle go 2nd, if 5 go 1st.

And will first add more to other classes than us?

[Maylian]

Unless I'm reading the spell info wrong on first spire its self only.

[Camikazi]

In a raid situation though, and if in a DPS group, wouldnt first spire be better still? 60 DPS per person x 5 = 300, and second = 220 personal? So if grouped with 4 melle go 2nd, if 5 go 1st.

And will first add more to other classes than us?

First Spire is self only, Second Spire is pet only, Third Spire is Group Only

[jitathab]

Yup forgot that.

[nedoirah]

I'm just simply confused. Which of the three is actually the best? I'm not much of one for looking into parses (gives me headaches) but I see conflicting opinions? Or am I?

[Inphared]

A short fifteen minute parse shows that the second spire pulls ahead, but that's fifteen entire minutes of the spire showing up on the parse. You normally only have one tenth of that at a time.

After that, you have to factor in resists. If you're only getting 8ppm (procs per minute [8 is an arbitrary number]), one or two resists drastically decreases the desired DPS increase you would get from the spire.

None of our spires are anything to raise an eyebrow at. They're all pretty mediocre. If you were to use one, I would personally use first over second.

[trixbro]

On a side note if you are saying the 30% dmg mod is too small to be parsable, what about the 7% from mammoth str? Or are they different?


Well read a different post and seems increasing minimum dmg is different from all skills mod...

[Camikazi]

A short fifteen minute parse shows that the second spire pulls ahead, but that's fifteen entire minutes of the spire showing up on the parse. You normally only have one tenth of that at a time.

After that, you have to factor in resists. If you're only getting 8ppm (procs per minute [8 is an arbitrary number]), one or two resists drastically decreases the desired DPS increase you would get from the spire.

None of our spires are anything to raise an eyebrow at. They're all pretty mediocre. If you were to use one, I would personally use first over second.

The Second Spire parse was done in 10, 1.5 min parses.

Procs per test

Test 1   - 10
Test 2   - 5
Test 3   - 6
Test 4   - 8
Test 5   - 7
Test 6   - 5
Test 7   - 12
Test 8   - 9
Test 9   - 10
Test 10 - 8

Even at the lowest amount that was proced (5), it's over 11k (11225) dmg or about 124DPS for the time it is up, or around 35-60 DPS more then First Spire. I did a few more runs that I did not add into the webpage but in none did i see lower then 5 procs in the time it was up. Also at -25 Chromatic (takes 25 off the mobs lowest resist then does check) it is not an easy to resist spell, I still think Second Spire is in most situations our best Spire.

[Inphared]

The Second Spire parse was done in 10, 1.5 min parses.

This is my point exactly. Your parse is entirely valid; don't get me wrong. But the actual reality of the game is that you can only have the spire up for 1.5 minutes before you have to wait another 13.5 to click it again.

It leaves the DPS of the spire itself up to the RNG (as does any other ability, really), so there will be situations where you get an amazing 15 procs per duration, or a really terrible 2 procs duration.

The advantage that I see, when comparing First to Second, is that I know First will most likely have an impact on every single melee hit I make (maybe not, I readily admit I don't know how the game mechanics make First work, nor do I care). With using second, the DPS that you're expecting from it relies ENTIRELY on the RNG, which obviously can be very kind or very cruel.

**EDIT**

I suppose I should seek some more clarification. As stated, your Second parses are done in ten, 1.5 minute intervals. Does the same hold true for the other two parses?

As also stated, the First parse was done with bare hands. It's agreed upon that the effects of the spire itself will increase as other things are added (bard overhaste, for example).

[Camikazi]

The Second Spire parse was done in 10, 1.5 min parses.

This is my point exactly. Your parse is entirely valid; don't get me wrong. But the actual reality of the game is that you can only have the spire up for 1.5 minutes before you have to wait another 13.5 to click it again.

It leaves the DPS of the spire itself up to the RNG (as does any other ability, really), so there will be situations where you get an amazing 15 procs per duration, or a really terrible 2 procs duration.

The advantage that I see, when comparing First to Second, is that I know First will most likely have an impact on every single melee hit I make (maybe not, I readily admit I don't know how the game mechanics make First work, nor do I care). With using second, the DPS that you're expecting from it relies ENTIRELY on the RNG, which obviously can be very kind or very cruel.

**EDIT**

I suppose I should seek some more clarification. As stated, your Second parses are done in ten, 1.5 minute intervals. Does the same hold true for the other two parses?

As also stated, the First parse was done with bare hands. It's agreed upon that the effects of the spire itself will increase as other things are added (bard overhaste, for example).

The First Spire tests were done the same way, since it ticks down in Arena, and I posted now many times Second fired off during each test, using that you can get an idea of what the average would be for that spire, since it is up 90 sec in each test. Third Spire test was done in 1 15 min fight since it does not tick down (no clue why just Third doesn't tick). If you're gonna say procs rely on the RNG then you gotta say the same for First, since swings also rely on RNG on will it land or not, the only difference is there are more swing checks at any given time, so most don't seem to think RNG affects it.

A bad series of misses, blocks, parries, ripostes or Dodges will ruin First Spire DPS just as much, also First DPS is much more reliant on many outside buffs to max the DPS (tribute, overhaste, max haste, max fero, max swing aas, warcry) while Second is not, Second just need the buff to be up and maybe some DEX buff to max its potential.

Just a few numbers btw, even using your terrible 2 procs in a run that is 49 DPS, about half of the total that First can do with the potential to do 3 times as much as First With the proc rate that pets have the chances of getting 0-2 procs are low, in all the total tries i did (about 30 total) i never saw less then 5 which will easily blow First away. I still think that for the small risk of getting less then 3 procs, Second is worth using unless you're fighting a completely spell immune mob.

[nedoirah]

OK now that I see that the second spire is worth buying (I was holding off buying it since I thought it was broken) I can start saving up the aa points to max it out.

[Inphared]

I think it's something I'm just chalking up to "agree to disagree." There are arguments for either side (with Third being the clear loser) that make this continually debatable. I think the sum total is "go with your gut."

[Khauruk]

Chances of getting that few procs in the 90 seconds, especially if you're not clicking BPs (which could block procs) is very minimal (I don't know enough statistics though to say how small).  I'd call 2nd clear winner, but 1st still has it's uses.

[Kanan]

1st definally wins in battle rezzing cases =/ Been having to deal with that a lot as of late.. hehe.. tower learning experiences ;p