Agility, what's it good for?

[Nunyabiz]

well its a parse i didnt see then.

anyway, as ive been saying all along this is what I believe PERIOD, I and my wife both noticed a nice little improvement, no more no less.
Im entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. and NO i dont have to prove anything, its MY opinion.
Hell there what roughly 4 Billion people on a planet of just over 6 Billion that believe in some totally ficticious BS called Religion be it Christian Muslim etc. they cant prove a single thing im one of the 2 Billion that thinks they are crazy yet I dont go around with a chip on my shoulder saying "prove it Biatch" or get the F*** outa my face and STFU
I simply let it be, believe what you wish

Mods, please lock this thread, i don't want to hear another word.

LOL sorry just because im maybe the only one hear that doesnt bow to your statisical crap, no need to throw a lil tandrum you need to get over yourself.
If you dont want to see another word then simply dont open the thread your problem is solved.

Everyone else can believe AGI has so very little effect that even adding 200+ AGI is of zero value, thats great.
If thats the case then maybe Doist should complain to the developers for adding in a completely useless placebo stat & Buffs or ask them since they wrote the program what if any effect AGI is "supposed" to have according to them.
If the developers chim in & say Oh yeah you know AGI, well it serves no purpose whatsoever once its over 75 we just needed to fill up a hole to make it look good sorry about the confusion. then I would STFU and never say another word.
I mearly stated MY opinion, you just simply need to get over it.
Im not telling anyone to do anything other than I think its a bit more usefull then everyone else seems to believe.

I really dont care what most of the parse ive seen supposedly show.

I have yet to see one that isnt skewed to the point of making them useless.
You can crunch all your numbers all you like so far you have shown me ziltch.

[Ghoat]

Why was this moved to the aa section? Rants. maybe. AA?  /boggle

[Coprolith]

Facts:

The monks parsed AGI.
The warriors parsed AGI.
The paladins parsed AGI.
The rangers parsed AGI.
The rogues parsed AGI.
The shamans parsed AGI.
One of your fellow beastlords parsed AGI.
The conclusion was always the same: the effect of AGI does not justify sacrifing any other stats for.

Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. Im telling you now as i've been telling you all along they do exist. To dismiss those results based on your belief is pure religious fanaticism and to deny the results when you cannot even be bothered to do some research yourself and ask around on other boards is an insult to everyone who actually worked to obtain their conclusions on the effect of AGI

Go preach your beliefs on the warrior or monk boards. Im sure you'll find they're sooooooo much tolerant to your ideas there.

[Xuthaz]

Ganked from here.

This formula may be a few AC off at the end game, maybe 1-2 points. also doesn't have the extra 50 points of stats from PoP.  Just to note, this is just to disprove the 3agi=1AC thing, which is wrong, its much more complicated than that.  just like 1 stam = X hps is also invalid.

This is purely to prove nunya wrong on the 180agi to 200 leap being some magical 3% boost.  At level 65, Avoidance AC at 180 Agi is 515.  Avoidance AC at 201 Agi is 519.  The difference in those 21 points of Agi is 4 points of *Displayed* AC.


anyway, enjoy:

AC = (Avoidance + Mitigation) * (1000 / 847)

Now, Mitigation, if you're a non-monk Melee class is:
(Raw AC From Buffs / 4) + (Defense/ 3) + (Raw AC From Equipment * 4 / 3)

And if you're a caster,
(Raw AC From Buffs / 3) + (Defense/ 2) + (Raw AC From Equipment + 1)

Avoidance = the absolute value of (AGIFactor + Defense * 16 / 9)

where AF = Agility Factor, DEF = Defense Score

Agility factor is determined by your Agility rating and your Level, as follows:

**PLEASE NOTE, AGIFactor is not your straight AGI. AGIFactor comes from a really big chart. You need to know your level and Agility. Note, level doesn't come into play until 75 AGI.

If your level is >= 40 Then your LevelFactor is 4
If your level is 20-39 Then your LevelFactor is 3
If your level is 7 - 19 Then your LevelFactor is 2
If your level < 7 Then your LevelFactor is 1

If your AGI is
*AGI 1
then your AGIFactor is -24
*AGI 2, 3
then your AGIFactor is -23
*AGI 4
then your AGIFactor is -22
*AGI 5, 6
then your AGIFactor is -21
*AGI 7, 8
then your AGIFactor is -20
*AGI 9
then your AGIFactor is -19
*AGI 10, 11
then your AGIFactor is -18
*AGI 12
then your AGIFactor is -17
*AGI 13, 14
then your AGIFactor is -16
*AGI 15, 16
then your AGIFactor is -15
*AGI 17
then your AGIFactor is -14
*AGI 18, 19
then your AGIFactor is -13
*AGI 20
then your AGIFactor is -12
*AGI 21, 22
then your AGIFactor is -11
*AGI 23, 24
then your AGIFactor is -10
*AGI 25
then your AGIFactor is -9
*AGI 26, 27
then your AGIFactor is -8
*AGI 28
then your AGIFactor is -7
*AGI 29, 30
then your AGIFactor is -6
*AGI 31, 32
then your AGIFactor is -5
*AGI 33
then your AGIFactor is -4
*AGI 34, 35
then your AGIFactor is -3
*AGI 36
then your AGIFactor is -2
*AGI 37, 38
then your AGIFactor is -1
*AGI 39 To 65
then your AGIFactor is 0
*AGI 66 To 70
then your AGIFactor is 1
*AGI 71 To 74
then your AGIFactor is 5
*AGI 75
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 39
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 33
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 23
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 9
*AGI 76 To 79
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 40
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 33
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 23
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 10
*AGI 80
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 41
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 34
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 24
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 11
*AGI 81 To 85
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 42
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 35
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 25
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 12
*AGI 86 To 90
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 42
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 36
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 26
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 12
*AGI 91 To 95
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 43
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 36
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 26
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 13
*AGI 96 To 99
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 44
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 37
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 27
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 14
*AGI 100
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 45
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 38
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 28
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 15
*AGI 101 To 105
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 45
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 39
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 29
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 15
*AGI 106 To 110
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 46
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 39
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 29
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 16
*AGI 111 To 115
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 47
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 40
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 30
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 17
*AGI 116 To 119
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 47
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 41
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 31
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 17
*AGI 120
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 48
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 42
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 32
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 18
*AGI 121 To 125
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 49
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 42
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 32
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 19
*AGI 126 To 135
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 50
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 43
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 33
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 20
*AGI 136 To 145
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 51
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 44
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 34
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 21
*AGI 146 To 155
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 52
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 45
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 35
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 22
*AGI 156 To 165
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 53
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 46
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 36
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 23
*AGI 166 To 175
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 54
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 47
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 37
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 24
*AGI 176 To 185
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 55
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 48
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 38
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 25
*AGI 186 To 195
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 56
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 49
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 39
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 26
*AGI 196 To 205
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 57
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 50
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 40
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 27
*AGI 206 To 215
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 58
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 51
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 41
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 28
*AGI 216 To 225
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 59
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 52
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 42
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 29
*AGI 226 To 235
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 60
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 53
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 43
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 30
*AGI 236 To 245
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 61
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 54
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 44
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 31
*AGI 246 To 255
And your LevelFactor is 4 Then then your AGIFactor is 62
And your LevelFactor is 3 Then then your AGIFactor is 55
And your LevelFactor is 2 Then then your AGIFactor is 45
And your LevelFactor is 1 Then then your AGIFactor is 32

[Nunyabiz]

LOL...../Yawn

This is purely to prove nunya wrong on the 180agi to 200 leap being some magical 3% boost.

Not proving me anything, wasnt me that did any parse saying either way was someone else here. I mearly went with that since all you folks got parse on the brain.

They dont mean squat to me.

All i need is to just play the game, your all they guys with your undies in a wad over some useless parse not me.

Oh and Woot my "AGIFactor" is 67 woohoo, and that proves what exactly?
Im thinking just like all parses and useless number crunching the final answer is always ZERO.
Means squat to me.
My AGI is 305 I tank rather well, not solely because my AGI is 305, actually that has the absolute least to do with it as ive been fruitlessly saying to you imbaciles.
I tank well because im lvl 65, then because i have ALL my Defensive AAs maxed, then because i have well over 7500Hps, then as ive been saying all along having my AGI maxed has seemed to help.

You guys are hilarious.

[Nunyabiz]

The warriors parsed AGI.
The paladins parsed AGI.
The rangers parsed AGI.
The rogues parsed AGI.
The shamans parsed AGI.

ALL of these completely and utterly useless to a leather wearing Beastlord.

The other 2? worthlessly skewed.

Once again, means nada to me bud....maybe you should like pour yourself a nice glass of wine and just chill.
Your never changing my mind regardless how much manure you spew forth.
AGI helps a little<----That means a LITTLE, just like all stats, a LITTLE.

a small amount, a bit, a tad, any of these words ringing a bell to you at all?....Of course not, as all of you have for well over a year now, you will simply glaze over everything im saying and key on one sentence to take out of context and misinterpet.
LOL entertain me with whatever your going to misinterpet next.
I cant wait.

[feralize]

You're a stubborn fool in denial. Nothing more.

[Grymlok]

so ya get yer Causes-and-effects "staright".

I and my wife both noticed a nice little improvement back when i was about lvl 62ish when i bumped my AGI from in teh 150s up to 255, simple as that, no magic bullet, no amazing difference, not all of a sudden tanking 5X better, just simply a nice little improvement, all you guys just need to get over that fact.

Firstly, I've tended to notice that the first person in an argument to pick apart anothers grammar/spelling is desperately looking for something to make their point seem more valid than it is.

Secondly, you managed to get your agi from the 150s to 255 with no substantial changes in ac or hp (those stats that have a proven affect on tanking ability)?  That is the only way that you would have a leg to stand on in this debate.  Noone here is saying that agi is completely useless, just that it is quite possibly the least effective stat in the game, and is not worth sacrificing anything for.

[Nunyabiz]

and ive never once said to "sacrafice" any other stat in favor of AGI have I?
Ive said IF you can, to try and max your AGI because it does (IMO) help.

All of you are the ones flinging the BS not me, im just sitting back and enjoying the show of one idiot after the other trying to disprove something that they have misinterpeted. which technically is disproving himself LOL

As ive also said fruitlessly since apparently im about the only one that either can read or at least comprehend what i read that in general with what a Beastlord has to work with gear wise your AGI is going to go up decently as you upgrade anyway as long as you dont actively avoid it.
which is basically what all of you are saying is to actively avoid it like the plague.
I find that advise personally to be misleading

Firstly, I've tended to notice that the first person in an argument to pick apart anothers grammar/spelling is desperately looking for something to make their point seem more valid than it is.

LOL secondly ive notced the first person to bring that up is REALLY the one with ziltch to say thats worth saying LOL.

you managed to get your agi from the 150s to 255 with no substantial changes in ac or hp

Yeah for the most part both AC & HP went up a little bit its Wis that i personally sacraficed a bit to get my AGI up.
But other than the very best high end gear in Eplanes I defy anyone to try and up thier AC/HP and WIS at teh same time its virtually impossible.
BUT no problem to up your AGI with AC/HP gear.

But when i did that this was way before LDON with AUGs you can pick and choose and up any freaking stat you want with ease.
so once again this arguement as ive said about 10x now is ignorant.

you can easily up your AC/HPs AND AGI then up your WIS with AUGS with no problem whatsoever.

You think AGI is completely useless thats your opinion and thats fine.

I just happen to believe it does help a little, not exactly sure why that is such a crime with you freaks of nature.

If AGI is completely and utterly worthless, does absolutely nothing once your over 75.
then why is there not some uproar of sorts from the different communities demmanding something to be done about such a useless stat just taking up space and taking up buff slots.
Since it obviously must be bugged if that were the case.

That would also be kind of a slap in the face to the Beastlords since virtually all of our highest end gear has high AGI on it.
Our very best Tunic that very few Beast will ever see that have fought and clawed thier way to POT spending untold hours and hours playing to get there, and whats on it?

+30AGI +8%Block +15Avoidance LOL How dare they.
If i were all you guys under the spell of all these grand parses that firmly believe AGI is the debil I would raise hell.

Meanwhile im just happy as can be with ALL my avoidance as high as i can possibly get it with CA3/LR5/+8%dodge/+5%Block/305AGI.
and i would just shyte and fall in it if i got that Tunic, which is all i need to be completely maxed as high as i can possibly be in Avoidance gear/AAs,
You see im not the one with the problem here, im happy as a pig in shyte
about the performance of my char and the choices ive made to get him here.
Its you guys crying in yer beer not I

[Nunyabiz]

just that it is quite possibly the least effective stat in the game, and is not worth sacrificing anything for.

Hmmm yet somehow for some odd reason YOUR AGI is the second highest stat you have on YOUR char. LOL
How can that be?
I guess you must have "sacraficed" something to get it there eh?

Well actually I will gladdly point out to you that you have done just about exactly what i did.
You will notice your AC & HPs are pretty decent, when you actively try and raise your AC/HPs AGI naturally follows. DOH.

Your Wis is good because your starting to get a few pieces of Eplane gear.
get a grip people.

[Thrashum Gud]

Right now, the accepted knowledge, obtained thru parsing, is that the effects of AGI are minimal. Saying you feel it does make a difference cuts no mustard, experimental evidence is the only grounds you can have to claim the contrary. The latest AGI parse i've seen dates back about half a year ago and showed no change whatsoever. Without experimental evidence you have simply have no claim, and, as Aggy said, you are merely spreading disinformation. Not to mention its an insult to all the people who did the hard work of performed those parses. Their intent, as is mine, is to help the general EQ populace by providing the information that SOE just won't give

Putting aside the rather pointless personal attacks I have to wonder how worthless agi is when you do in fact clearly gain ac from it.  SOE maintains the following (taken friom the Ruins of Kumark Prima Guide:

"Agility helps determine your defensive abilities, it affects how often you are hit, and to a lesser degree how much damage you take.  The higher your agility the less likely you are to be hit by melee combat.  It also affects how quickly you learn some defenseive skills."

This is from the people that actually made the game, I would think they knew best how their own progam works.

[Coprolith]

The warriors parsed AGI.
The paladins parsed AGI.
The rangers parsed AGI.
The rogues parsed AGI.
The shamans parsed AGI.

ALL of these completely and utterly useless to a leather wearing Beastlord.

Shows how much you really know about avoidance and mitigation. The type of armor you wear has no bearing whatsoever on avoidance, since worn AC is mitigation AC. Avoidance AC is determined by your defense skill and AGI adds a fraction. If you followed Xuthaz post you'd have seen that AGI is responsible for adding less then 10% total to avoidance AC. An increase in AGI of 100 pts adds 2.5% to avoidance AC. Gosh does that number sound familiar? Its about the same number that the parses are showing. Could it possibly be that avoidance actually follows the same trend as avoidance AC? /shock

All those parses are relevant. The difference in Defense skill between the classes doesn't suddenly make them invalid. If even the monks don't find a significant effect of AGI, then BSTs won't either.

Paladins, warriors and rogues all have a higher cap in the Defense skill then beastlords btw. A mob will miss them more often. The only reason our total avoidance is higher is because we have the block skill instead of parry. But AGI has no bearing on block either, just the miss rate of mobs

and ive never once said to "sacrafice" any other stat in favor of AGI have I?

Backing down now Nuny? How disappointing
Every time you deny the results of the parses you are saying exactly this, you've advised people to work on their AGI dozens of times, without mentioning once that they'd get much greater benefits from other stats. By doing so, you are potentially harming these players by stunting the growth of their characters and that's why your preachings have got to stop. You are insulting the people that performed the parses and giving genuine advice based on their parse results. Your right of free speech does not include the right to make claims in public that you can't back up.
If a gossip magazine claims that 'actress A is dating porn star B' they damn well better have some photographs to back up that claim or they have a lawsuit on their hands. That principle applies here as well. The effect of AGI is a verifiable claim. Until you can provide a shred of evidence that the effect of AGI is far larger then the accepted parses say it is, which despite all your ramblings you still haven't done, you do not have to right to make your claims based on your feelings

[Thrashum Gud]

The effect of AGI is a verifiable claim. Until you can provide a shred of evidence that the effect of AGI is far larger then the accepted parses say it is

How exactly is this a verifiable claim?

My problem with your claim is very simple, you say your parsing and that of other players parses are accepted, has SOE ever once said that?  Have they verified that you are parsing correctly?  Have they verified you are actually looking at the right data the right way?  Have they openly stated that you are correct with the information you are presenting as facts?

I'm trying really hard to understand this, it looks like a few players are saying we have this figured out.  That's all well and good but without SOE agreeing then  how exactly is this a verifiable claim?

Now if they have acknowledged what you are saying I'll happily apologize for being wrong but I'd like to see proof of your claim vs that which Verant/SOE has released.

[Scalewulf]

hehe - this thread is still alive.

Didn't Verant not to long ago say that they were looking at or did something to the avoidance of leather wearing classes?  (supposedly improving avoidance mitigation?)  

Not stating this as fact, but I thought I remember reading something to that effect.  

If that is/was the case, then it would render all of the agi parses that have been done ages ago, useless.  And therefore, the burden of proof would then be on both sides of the argument.  

Of course, this is "what I think I remember reading".  Not absolute factual and I don't have a link.  

This thread is pretty angry for the most part, and I personally don't know why.  

Agree to disagree, it happens all the time.    8)

[Nunyabiz]

The type of armor you wear has no bearing whatsoever on avoidance

BS, just like wearing Plate has no bearing on your Mitigation from AC to i guess eh? LOL


Backing down now Nuny? How disappointing

Show me where i EVER said to sacrafice ANYTHING in favor of just AGI and only AGI just for the sake of having high AGI and to hell with anything else. I never said any such thing its you freaks that keep misinterpeting what im saying, then trying to disprove your own BS LOL

Your a freaking nutcase.

This is from the people that actually made the game, I would think they knew best how their own progam works.

No im sorry Thrashum im afraid Copr and few other parse fanatics know much more than SOEs developers/programers do.

An increase in AGI of 100 pts adds 2.5% to avoidance AC.

I'll take it!!! and damn glad to have it especially since it cost me basically nothing to get, as ive said before just raising your AC & HPs will naturally raise your AGI as a Beastlord as long as you dont actively try to avoid it, you can look at Grymloks megelo and see that clear as bell.

Continue on with your useless drivel though, its quite entertaining.