Oh you have to be kidding me! (Rogues and "class balan

[tkyn]

I'm sorry Bryc, but DPS doesn't work that way, not at all.

Well, I suppose it could, but that's pointless.  You weren't measuring DPS, you were measuring Burst Damage, which are two completely seperate concepts.

That is exactly the point his post was making.

[TerjynPovar]

Fair enough. :)

[Mahes]

It's really not an issue for the rogues to worry about, at least end-game-wise.

We regularly use Bert in Time as a parse mob to guage our guilds over-all dps and increases and such.  I have max offensive AAs, worn attk, SotA/EPW with an extra proc on each, and the PoTime focused pet.  Never, ever will I outdamge a rogue that's paying attention.  Even using my offensive disc.  Consistantly I'll rank in the top 5-10 and right near the monks, but the rogues always have, and always will, clean house when it comes to dps.  Couldn't tell you how the casters fit in on Bert as we make them sit in A til about 75% so we don't waste mana healing them through his AEs.  :P

I really don't think they need to sweat it.

[Argach]

Blah Bert sucks as a parsing mob with his resisted time lapses... besides, dunno about ya'll but I load abolish disease for Bert and spend a fair amount of time curing, that cuts into dps a lot. I'm somewhat lazy about dps, can't always bother to go the extra mile and I lack a lot of stuff like cold focus and bunch of AAs, did 198 dps on our last CT (using disc) and only 174 dps on Bert (no disc, curing a lot). Any time rogue doing that sort of dps is prolly afk with autoattack on.  :P

[Dakat]

I was basing it off this.

Mob: PoI trash
Class: Beast v Rogue
situation: one on one
weapon: mentioned above, whatever rogue has

You: got weapon, spells: dots, nukes with SCF and nothing else crits for 1215dd. Put in a focus item that boosts dd and that adds a little more. Minion aug puts pet 89 quads, with max crit aa and frenzy. All your offensive aa's, warders alignment aa's maxed just to name a few.

Rogue: one on one, will not last very long unless he has a slow proc/potion, backstab is non existant unless they have a stun item/weapon and they sneak around to get the backstab off.

"Don't under estimate the power of the Beast"

[Dakat]

oh wanted to add this little bit,

you weilding epic max normal hit is 90. if you double hit and rare double attack for a quad of 90 is 390 dmg. Have you ever 4 hits in a row be 90 and almost back-to-back so to speak, never.

you weilding the weapon above. Normal hits 396? with an often double hit of another 396 is 792 for 1 round.

I dont know you compare the 2.

Max crit for 90dmg was 150. This weapon normal crit 657. Lets say you critted for max 150 for the 4 swings is 600. 2 hits with weapon above and you crit both hits 1314.

And this is just hypothetical mind ya and just off weapons alone and for 1 round.

[Dakat]

Oops sorry one last thing.

We, Beastlords are at our full potetial all the time. WE dont have to cower behind a mob to get our rocks off.

[Murkk Dakruul]

uhhh ok.

Yes, we outdamage soloing rogues. This is why you have never seen a rogue soloing....ever. If I knew you were comparing our solo DPS to a rogues solo DPS, I would not of replied to your post. We are a good soloing class. rogues are probably the worst soloing class in the whole game.

The reason I assumed you were comparing our group/raid DPS to a rogues group/raid DPS, is because comparing our solo DPS to their solo DPS is really ridiculous.

We, Beastlords are at our full potetial all the time.

Beastlord DPS is the most situational of any class you could consider a DPS class.

You need to be able to use a pet, you need the pets proc to actually land, you need to be able to melee, you need the mob to not resist your spells, You need a pet focus, you need good weapons, you need a DD focus, you need a DoT focus, you need alot of worn +ATK, If you are on a raid you need to be behind the mob to avoid being riposted to death. After all that you have to manage the ridiculous aggro you will have 99% of the time. We spend alot of time just rebuffing Fero and SD mid-fight. Sometimes we have to jump out of combat to MGB Paragon....etc etc...

So when my pet is dead, half my nukes get resisted and 5 people are asking me for SD, I don't really feel like im at my "full potential" DPS wise.

But yes, we totally demolish soloing rogues DPS wise. Grats us.

[Bryc]

With the same amount of aa of a time geared rogue, given the rogue is delusional from sleep deprivation, suffering from Bawls Guarana psychosis, maddened with solo envy, and determined to end his life in the most laughable possible fashion; when said Rogue decides to commit seppuku by stepping in front of an unslowed PoP mob alone, we would outdamage him.

Seriously though, in practice that's about as likely as a Wizard MT using a BBD for dps (who we'd also outdamage btw).

This is my favorite badass-rogue quote of all time. From Slansin (FoH rogue) to Sam Deathwalker (6 boxer with 4 wizards):

I'm sure 4 wizards all landing a Draught at once really pisses people off in PvP. 950dd X 4 = 3,800 damage. And since you have such an unclever naming convention for your characters, everyone knows it's from one sad guy in a hostpital bed. So YOU, SAM get 3,800 damage worth of hate.

The same thing in PvE, however... you may as well hit mobs with four Giant "#1" Foam Fingers with the words "Chicago Cubs" rubbed off and "Sam Da Man" scribbled on with a Sharpie.

The mob doesn't compute 3,800 hate that no warrior could possibly outtaunt without a long lead or an AA ability. It gets an easily managed 950 on 4 different targets. A round of melee and a weapon proc will "Aggro Lock" in this situation, regardless of the new stamina-draining abilities.

Let me put this into perspective. I, alone, (just me, my JTB and my Ifir), have had single combat rounds that outdamage your 4 wizard self circle-jerk all landing Draughts at the same time. From MELEE range, which compounds the hate. This is also during NORMAL MELEE, which means, I continue to beat ass and don't stop to wait for a recast timer.

I can get 2999 crits, 1600 normal, 600 minimum, up to two every 5 seconds on top of 200 to 400 normal melee for well over 400 constant, consistent DPS (now for 30 to 35 seconds). All that aggro onto one character, not split evenly between 4.

I almost rolled a rogue after reading that.

btw, /bonk Teryn =)

[Phurrin]

One of the things that gets me is their new disc. I've heard several rogues complaining about it now, one of which was a guildy that shelved his character because of it. Now honestly, WTF? They get a new ability that does free damage, and they complain about it?

I know it's a pathetic attempt at "balancing" them with other classes, but getting a new ability isn't hurting the class, for god's sake.

On a side note, I seem to remember hearing the same "it sucks" moaning when people first saw Feral Swipe, too :P
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[Phurrin]

Dammit.. disregard that last post please, would edit it but I can't..

I'm tired and have no idea what I'm talking about at the moment  :x

[Kinash]

Funny, but they just changed the Rogue Disc based on all the whining and complaining to a Backstab attack from a ranged attack, and some are whining about the change! No pleasing some people  :lol:

[Valsuvious]

Doesn't it make you wonder though why all those other classes are whining?  I mean, they must have their reasons.  I know that I have mine.

[TerjynPovar]

No, I know why classes are whining.

Because from day 1 of the game the class that whines the most get buffed the most by Verant, and SoE followed it up.

Doesn't matter if there's a legitimate complaint or not.

[Kinash]

Most of the people I saw whining in the Rogue boards are level 65 Elemental Equiped with a ton of AA's yelling how the new 65 Disc isn't as good as their AA's. Narry a peep from the 55 and lower that now have a nice new Disc.