This is mainly just a summary of some of the issues mentioned in other threads, but I thought it'd be good to get them all in one spot.
Tureptan Spirit:
The area this spells comes from is more diffictult, and likely only time level or high elemental level guilds will have any chance at getting it. The effect is a group version of Infusion of Spirit, which raises str, sta, and dex. The problem is that 95% of everyone in a guild that can get this spell already has max stats. I know from personal experience that I haven't casted Infusion of Spirit on anything but my pet in at least a couple monthes.
Possible fixes:
Change to a group version of Kragg, which at least has utility outside raids.
Replace with a completely different spell (see below).
Turepta Blood:
The problem with this spell is the same problem that beastlords have with Damage-Over-Time type spells in general. It costs more mana than our best nuke, and usually does less damage if the beastlord has a nuke focus item, which is much more common than DoT focus items. It is also not guarenteed to do it's full damage before the mob dies; this is even more of a problem with GoD mobs which generally have low hp. In addition, poison dots generate a very large amount of agro in comparison to our nukes, which is usually undesirable (except when tanking or agro-kiting solo).
Possible fixes:
Replace with a completely different spell (see below).
Possible Other Spell Replacements:
I've seen the idea of a new heal equivilent to the new ranger heal mentioned several times. Personally I think this spell would be great; chloroblast just doesn't do much anymore, with player hp higher than ever.
Other non-GoD related ideas that I've seen are animal specific spells, such as an animal-only mez or lull.
Another possability is a resist debuff, but I personally don't think this is something bst should have.
Theres many other possabilities, but these are just a few of the more common ones.
Turepta Blood is a great spell, the only change needed is a significant toning down of DoT aggro while in melee range. SKs and Rangers had their aggro-generation reduced in a big way recently, ours should be as well.
One of the early suggestions was an upgraded SD - even 10 or 11/tick. I think this would be a perfect replacement for Group IoS.
Or make the bloody Group IoS spell at least somewhat attainable by non-uber/high level raiding beastlords whom can actually put the spell to use.
Perhaps a quest of some sort (Yeah, they said some spells would be question.. rune turn in is NOT a quest) that takes taking out stuff in the first two zone areas, perhaps even make it as hard to get as Spirit of Snow just make it -attainable-.. as it stands it's IMPOSSIBLE for those that will actually use it to aquire this gem...
I'd love to scribe it.. love love love! But my guild raids PoHate and BoT sometimes.. no way will I be seeing GoD trial raids anytime in the forseeable future :(
I'm in same situation as you. I would love the spell, but as its done now it is of no use to anyone.
I'm in same situation as you. I would love the spell, but as its done now it is of no use to anyone.
As many have stated, my issue is simply where the spells drop. I know many beastlords that could use spirit, but as a KT drop it is a joke.
I posted this before and I'll say it again...to the people who can acquire group IoS an improved Spiritual Dominion wouldn't be of use either. More mana regen only matters if you need it, and with raid environments, using VoQ + 9 + Dominion + Flowing Thought 15 + bard song, a better Dominion wouldn't do a damn thing for that guild.
Even in non-raid environments they always seem to have 9 + VoQ + Dominion running as they always seem to have their pocket druids and enchanters handy.
"I posted this before and I'll say it again...to the people who can acquire group IoS an improved Spiritual Dominion wouldn't be of use either."
I'm sorry but it'd be +1/2 mana a tick. That's a gain, an improvement a clear boost. Group infusion simply isn't where it falls. If it added atk, if it broke the stat cap, if it did anything at all then maybe, but as it stands it literally does nothing. Also even with 9/bard/VoQ/sd/FT15/etc can still find uses for mana hehe. I'm not saying 1 or 2 more mana regen will make or break a raid, but atleast it is some differance, group IoS simply isn't and where it comes from is by far the worst part imo. In beta it seemed "kinda useful" to "some beastlords", with where it's from it's just silly.
People are too hung up with numbers. Often times you cannot find anything useful to do with more mana.
When I have VoQ + Dominion + 9 + bard song + FLowing Thought 7(what I have) I can run 2 nukes, a DoT, slow, and a Fero cycle all at once.
While I suppose I *could* use more mana, you are getting down the ridiculously miniscule improvements.
Sure, an upgraded Spiritual Dominion would be better than group-IoS for the people who can get that spell. But .00001 is better than 0 too, doesn't mean it'd be worth the bother.
I agree Terj that improvement isn't big. However, an improvement of anything over nothing at all is nice. Also most EQ "upgrades" are very minor. Look at some of the costs of gear and some of the upgrades people make that have zero tangible effect other than perhaps a higher number here or there. However, more mana regen *is* useful. You can do ~3dmg per mana point. 2 more mana regen a tick is 6 more damage a tick, that's 1 dps boost. 1dps isn't a lot, but I know there have been a lot of times I'd have liked to have gotten another 1dps boost. Some weapon upgrades only give a boost of 2 or 3 depending. Heck some AA's don't even give a 1dps boost hehe. Again, please don't think I'm saying upgraded SD would make/break anything, but it atleast is an upgrade and you can clearly go "before" and "after" and notice a difference. That to me is huge verse absolutly no change at all.
But under most raiding/grouping circumstances, it's not 1 more DPS. It's zero more DPS.
And the complaint goes back to the fact that group-IOS is raid obtainable only. There is nothing inherently wrong with group-IOS, the problem is purely that it requires a raid who wouldn't need it anymore to get it. An 11 mana per tick Dominion falls into the same category...while it'd be useful for the non-uber by the time you are into hardcore raiding you get nothing out of more mana regen.
I don't know what a better solution is.
Sorry Terj I gotta disagree. +1/2 mana boost to SD for an entire raid is more than a 1dps boost. Even as a necro with almost every tangible focus item, SD, bard, etc I still can throw in more damage. I'm not sitting at FM. Some fights go super fast and yeah you don't run out then. On longer fights, clearing LDoN runs, etc it's more damage though and it's not just for beastlord. It'd be like buying MC2 for every person in your guild. Do you really think that's zero benefit? Again I grant it's not "huge" and in some cases it wouldn't even be noticeable, but it is there and is distinguishable. Heck group infusion wouldn't make a differance to me even if it did boost peoples stats. It's save me 30 seconds buff or whatever, but that's all. For some that's enough and I'm happy for them. However, it's really not doing much imo even if it was tradeable. Eitherway though where it drops is definetly silly imo.
Yes, I honestly do think that's basically zero benefit. While I don't personally raid anymore, I remember raiding back when I used to, and there is no raid we did where MC2 for the entire guild would actually have assisted us in actually winning something we would have lost otherwise.
In a lot of situations, like I said, it's zero more DPS.
In a situation where you are burning all your mana, it tops out at about 2.2 DPS for a Wizard, less for all other classes. 2 DPS is pretty much insignificant from a caster who's doing 300 DPS anyway. That's less than 1%(~.73%) improvement from the Wizard.
As a result, the improvement for an entire raid (unless you are all wizards) is significantly less than 1%. While it's still greater than zero, it is for all practical purposes useless.
If you aren't in an uber guild where this becomes a bigger significance to the raid, you cannot acquire it anyway, due to where it would come from.
As someone who is normally the buffer for the group a Group IOS is awesome.
Where it's located, isn't so awesome. No way in hell I'll ever be able to get it.
GoD is just basically an Elemental Guild Playground. No allowances for anything else really. Yeah sure I can maybe go XP in Natimbi or some of the other lesser areas, but for stuff I could actually use? Forget it.
So I did. I forgot it. GoD doesn't exist for me.
Well, you dont need a raid to aquire it since i saw geomancer stones drop from one groupable minis in kod'taz. Nevertheless the spell is just misplaced in that zone and utterly useless. While an upgraded SD isnt much of an improvement it is an improvement after all. Especially clerics can use every single point of manaregeneration in GoD and good wizzies too.
I would rather get one of the other 2 spells with the turn in than group ios, although a completely different spell would be nice (if raid usable).
They should have had it be our nuke, and the group ios drop where the nuke drops.
Right now, I haven't even bothered to go to the boat to finish the "quest", and other than for my pet, I don't think I've even memmed IOS since way before GoD came out.
Quote from: TigheAs someone who is normally the buffer for the group a Group IOS is awesome.
Where it's located, isn't so awesome. No way in hell I'll ever be able to get it.
GoD is just basically an Elemental Guild Playground. No allowances for anything else really. Yeah sure I can maybe go XP in Natimbi or some of the other lesser areas, but for stuff I could actually use? Forget it.
So I did. I forgot it. GoD doesn't exist for me.
Thread Highjack!
GoD is not just a Elemental guild playground.
There are several useable zones with good drops for casual players.
Dedgerex's Flintforged Cudgel drops in Riwwi and seems to be the best droppable non-raid mainhand weapon I can find with my stats/AA. Better even than fully aug'd SHO.
Baleful Blood-saoked Cuirass, watchmans leggings and also a nice set of arms drop in Riwwi.
33% haste gloves with 90 hp drop in Qinimi. You can solo for them.
Barindu drops 120 hp shoulders with 20 attack and 2 regen, along with other stuff.
Any of these zones can be done with a full 65 group in bazaar gear..or less.
Dont write off GoD as a high-end raid only type expansion. While that is the focus of the expansion, there are still some awesome upgrades for casual players that casual players can achieve.
QuoteThread Highjack!
You can't really hijack a 3 month old post =P
Quote from: RarrumTurepta Blood:
The problem with this spell is the same problem that beastlords have with Damage-Over-Time type spells in general. It costs more mana than our best nuke, and usually does less damage if the beastlord has a nuke focus item, which is much more common than DoT focus items. It is also not guarenteed to do it's full damage before the mob dies; this is even more of a problem with GoD mobs which generally have low hp. In addition, poison dots generate a very large amount of agro in comparison to our nukes, which is usually undesirable (except when tanking or agro-kiting solo).
Possible fixes:
Replace with a completely different spell (see below).
I disagree with this part. Even with ID4, Frost Spear (250 mana) does 810 (not counting crits). Before even taking BA4 into account, Turepta Blood (396 mana) will do a total of 1248 pts over the 42 seconds it lasts. Add BA4 in, and you're talking about 1498 pts of dmg! That gives 3.78 dmg per mana pt for TS vs. 3.24 dmg/mana for FS. How is it not an improvement?
Incidentally, our two other GoD DD's, Ancient Frozen Chaos and Trushar's Frost, come out to 3.24 and 3.25 as well, still putting TB as the most mana-efficient.
One problem that you have with TB is the aggro generation, but provided you don't dump it onto the mob immediately, and provided your tank has good aggro gear and skill, it's not really an issue. And yes, a lot of the GoD fights don't really last long enough for TB to do it's full dmg, but on encounters outside of GoD, that's certainly not the case.
Just one man's opinion, YMMV,
The only real problem with our GoD spells and if they do this again for OOW and any other expansion is the no drop tag.
I like the way that PoP spells were done with the parchment/rune turn in for random spell for that item.
Oh well, thats just me though.
GoD was a non-level increasing expansion, just like LDoN, just like LoY, etc. Those expansion spells were NO DROP too. This isn't a change. Kunark and PoP both had widely available spells for people of the levels as they moved up from the old cap to the new cap. OoW will likely be the same with perhaps a couple ancient type of spells. I honestly don't get why so many were shocked GoD spells were NO DROP. Was anyone able to get their LDoN spells without going to LDoN? Anyone get their LoY spells in the bazaar (don't say MQ lol)? Velious and luclin both had tradeable spells that weren't tied to an increase in level, but those are older expansions and since then things have changed. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's definitely not a surprise anymore. If a new expansion (call it PoZ) were mentioned for after OoW and it didn't raise the level I'd be shocked if the spells in it weren't no drop as well. *shrugs*