Beastlord GoD spell issues

Rarrum · March 24, 2004, 10:11:47 PM

This is mainly just a summary of some of the issues mentioned in other threads, but I thought it'd be good to get them all in one spot.

Tureptan Spirit:

The area this spells comes from is more diffictult, and likely only time level or high elemental level guilds will have any chance at getting it. The effect is a group version of Infusion of Spirit, which raises str, sta, and dex. The problem is that 95% of everyone in a guild that can get this spell already has max stats. I know from personal experience that I haven't casted Infusion of Spirit on anything but my pet in at least a couple monthes.

Possible fixes:
Change to a group version of Kragg, which at least has utility outside raids.
Replace with a completely different spell (see below).

Turepta Blood:

The problem with this spell is the same problem that beastlords have with Damage-Over-Time type spells in general. It costs more mana than our best nuke, and usually does less damage if the beastlord has a nuke focus item, which is much more common than DoT focus items. It is also not guarenteed to do it's full damage before the mob dies; this is even more of a problem with GoD mobs which generally have low hp. In addition, poison dots generate a very large amount of agro in comparison to our nukes, which is usually undesirable (except when tanking or agro-kiting solo).

Possible fixes:
Replace with a completely different spell (see below).

Possible Other Spell Replacements:

I've seen the idea of a new heal equivilent to the new ranger heal mentioned several times. Personally I think this spell would be great; chloroblast just doesn't do much anymore, with player hp higher than ever.

Other non-GoD related ideas that I've seen are animal specific spells, such as an animal-only mez or lull.

Another possability is a resist debuff, but I personally don't think this is something bst should have.

Theres many other possabilities, but these are just a few of the more common ones.

Vorph · March 25, 2004, 03:31:25 AM

Turepta Blood is a great spell, the only change needed is a significant toning down of DoT aggro while in melee range. SKs and Rangers had their aggro-generation reduced in a big way recently, ours should be as well.

Rhaynne · March 25, 2004, 03:46:53 AM

One of the early suggestions was an upgraded SD - even 10 or 11/tick. I think this would be a perfect replacement for Group IoS.

Pojodan · March 25, 2004, 04:58:34 AM

Or make the bloody Group IoS spell at least somewhat attainable by non-uber/high level raiding beastlords whom can actually put the spell to use.

Perhaps a quest of some sort (Yeah, they said some spells would be question.. rune turn in is NOT a quest) that takes taking out stuff in the first two zone areas, perhaps even make it as hard to get as Spirit of Snow just make it -attainable-.. as it stands it's IMPOSSIBLE for those that will actually use it to aquire this gem...
I'd love to scribe it.. love love love! But my guild raids PoHate and BoT sometimes.. no way will I be seeing GoD trial raids anytime in the forseeable future :(

Ukator Iceblood · March 25, 2004, 05:33:39 AM

I'm in same situation as you. I would love the spell, but as its done now it is of no use to anyone.

Ukator Iceblood · March 25, 2004, 05:34:04 AM

I'm in same situation as you. I would love the spell, but as its done now it is of no use to anyone.

Sempai · March 25, 2004, 04:05:48 PM

As many have stated, my issue is simply where the spells drop. I know many beastlords that could use spirit, but as a KT drop it is a joke.

TerjynPovar · March 25, 2004, 04:09:03 PM

I posted this before and I'll say it again...to the people who can acquire group IoS an improved Spiritual Dominion wouldn't be of use either. More mana regen only matters if you need it, and with raid environments, using VoQ + 9 + Dominion + Flowing Thought 15 + bard song, a better Dominion wouldn't do a damn thing for that guild.

Even in non-raid environments they always seem to have 9 + VoQ + Dominion running as they always seem to have their pocket druids and enchanters handy.

Tastian · March 25, 2004, 05:18:04 PM

"I posted this before and I'll say it again...to the people who can acquire group IoS an improved Spiritual Dominion wouldn't be of use either."

I'm sorry but it'd be +1/2 mana a tick. That's a gain, an improvement a clear boost. Group infusion simply isn't where it falls. If it added atk, if it broke the stat cap, if it did anything at all then maybe, but as it stands it literally does nothing. Also even with 9/bard/VoQ/sd/FT15/etc can still find uses for mana hehe. I'm not saying 1 or 2 more mana regen will make or break a raid, but atleast it is some differance, group IoS simply isn't and where it comes from is by far the worst part imo. In beta it seemed "kinda useful" to "some beastlords", with where it's from it's just silly.

TerjynPovar · March 25, 2004, 05:44:59 PM

People are too hung up with numbers. Often times you cannot find anything useful to do with more mana.

When I have VoQ + Dominion + 9 + bard song + FLowing Thought 7(what I have) I can run 2 nukes, a DoT, slow, and a Fero cycle all at once.

While I suppose I *could* use more mana, you are getting down the ridiculously miniscule improvements.

Sure, an upgraded Spiritual Dominion would be better than group-IoS for the people who can get that spell. But .00001 is better than 0 too, doesn't mean it'd be worth the bother.

Tastian · March 25, 2004, 06:36:32 PM

I agree Terj that improvement isn't big. However, an improvement of anything over nothing at all is nice. Also most EQ "upgrades" are very minor. Look at some of the costs of gear and some of the upgrades people make that have zero tangible effect other than perhaps a higher number here or there. However, more mana regen *is* useful. You can do ~3dmg per mana point. 2 more mana regen a tick is 6 more damage a tick, that's 1 dps boost. 1dps isn't a lot, but I know there have been a lot of times I'd have liked to have gotten another 1dps boost. Some weapon upgrades only give a boost of 2 or 3 depending. Heck some AA's don't even give a 1dps boost hehe. Again, please don't think I'm saying upgraded SD would make/break anything, but it atleast is an upgrade and you can clearly go "before" and "after" and notice a difference. That to me is huge verse absolutly no change at all.

TerjynPovar · March 25, 2004, 07:10:35 PM

But under most raiding/grouping circumstances, it's not 1 more DPS. It's zero more DPS.

And the complaint goes back to the fact that group-IOS is raid obtainable only. There is nothing inherently wrong with group-IOS, the problem is purely that it requires a raid who wouldn't need it anymore to get it. An 11 mana per tick Dominion falls into the same category...while it'd be useful for the non-uber by the time you are into hardcore raiding you get nothing out of more mana regen.

I don't know what a better solution is.

Tastian · March 25, 2004, 07:59:43 PM

Sorry Terj I gotta disagree. +1/2 mana boost to SD for an entire raid is more than a 1dps boost. Even as a necro with almost every tangible focus item, SD, bard, etc I still can throw in more damage. I'm not sitting at FM. Some fights go super fast and yeah you don't run out then. On longer fights, clearing LDoN runs, etc it's more damage though and it's not just for beastlord. It'd be like buying MC2 for every person in your guild. Do you really think that's zero benefit? Again I grant it's not "huge" and in some cases it wouldn't even be noticeable, but it is there and is distinguishable. Heck group infusion wouldn't make a differance to me even if it did boost peoples stats. It's save me 30 seconds buff or whatever, but that's all. For some that's enough and I'm happy for them. However, it's really not doing much imo even if it was tradeable. Eitherway though where it drops is definetly silly imo.

TerjynPovar · March 25, 2004, 08:20:38 PM

Yes, I honestly do think that's basically zero benefit. While I don't personally raid anymore, I remember raiding back when I used to, and there is no raid we did where MC2 for the entire guild would actually have assisted us in actually winning something we would have lost otherwise.

In a lot of situations, like I said, it's zero more DPS.

In a situation where you are burning all your mana, it tops out at about 2.2 DPS for a Wizard, less for all other classes. 2 DPS is pretty much insignificant from a caster who's doing 300 DPS anyway. That's less than 1%(~.73%) improvement from the Wizard.

As a result, the improvement for an entire raid (unless you are all wizards) is significantly less than 1%. While it's still greater than zero, it is for all practical purposes useless.

If you aren't in an uber guild where this becomes a bigger significance to the raid, you cannot acquire it anyway, due to where it would come from.

Tighe · April 12, 2004, 09:33:53 PM

As someone who is normally the buffer for the group a Group IOS is awesome.

Where it's located, isn't so awesome. No way in hell I'll ever be able to get it.

GoD is just basically an Elemental Guild Playground. No allowances for anything else really. Yeah sure I can maybe go XP in Natimbi or some of the other lesser areas, but for stuff I could actually use? Forget it.

So I did. I forgot it. GoD doesn't exist for me.