This is going to be a first draft of the updated top 10 list. I will add more information, but I want to show people where it stands now from all the feedback I've gotten. If you have suggestions for changing items, moving items around, or think a point isn't quite what it should be please post here and I'll see what I can do. Please do bare in mind though that beastlords are a very versitle class and there are somethings that not everyone wanted or agreed with. I tried to just go with what most seemed like they wanted.
1) Weapon skill caps - This is a long standing beastlord issue that needs addressing. Currently the differance in skill caps does very little as far as beastlord power is concerned. However, it has a very negative effect on weapon selection. HtH weapons are quite rare and if you look at the case of PoP progressiong you see Battle fists on TZ, followed by wraps on xegony, then shinai in time. That's it. Now a beastlord who is duel wielding needs two weapons and like most weapons all of these are lore. What happens is you have beastlords looking to other weapon types such as 1hb and piercing. The problem becomes a weapon that is a clear upgrade for another class might actually be a downgrade for a beastlord. HtH weapons will always be highly desired by beastlords because of the quality of the weapon. Having 1hb/piercing and 2hb capped the same would simply allow beastlords to help fill the gaps at times when hth weapons simply aren't available. Also it would make most upgrades much more intutive. Most other classes don't have to ask around before going from a 17 on 20 to an 18 on 20.
Possible solution:
- Raise all beastlord skill caps up to 250 just like HtH is currently.
2) Pet buff box - The resent changes to pets have been wonderful and I think it's safe to say all pet classes are very happy with the changes. What most of us were wondering is if it's possible to have the pet buffs display their remaining time and to also be able to click off pet buffs like we do our own buffs.
There are a lot of situations where this would be very useful. For example pet haste is a very important buff, but it has a big refresh timer when you first mem. If it fades during a fight the beastlord will be in a much harder situation. Spell slots are already pretty limited as it is and not everyone has half a dozen egg timers around to keep up with pet haste, fero, haste, regen, etc.
Also you have situations like with hobble of spirit and other buffs that once they land on the pet you can't get rid of or overwrite. When a paladin lands brells on the pet there is no way to get vigor on the pet for the extra atk outside of waiting for brells to fade or dispelling the pet down to the buff you are after. With all the ninja buffing going on, pet affinity and now pets zoning it's simply become more and more common to find a buff on your pet that you simply don't want or that is blocking something you do want from taking hold.
Possible solutions:
- Make it so that pet buffs show their remaining duration just like player character buffs now do.
- Allow the player to click off buffs (non-detremental of course) from their warder's buff box just like they can their own.
3) Aggro issues - This is a big beastlord issue that a lot of people don't quite understand. Beastlords are ok with getting aggro from high aggro spells such as slow and incapacitate. Beastlords are also ok with getting aggro when they are simply putting out more damage or doing things that obviously should draw attention. The problems with beastlord aggro becomes rather clear in raid situations and many grouping situations. What you'll have is the beastlord operating in a total dps role. By that I mean the beastlord isn't on slow duty or debuffing the mob, but rather is just contributing damage via melee/nukes/dots. In this situation a beastlord is generating far more aggro for the damage they are doing than most if not all other classes.
Again the problem isn't when a beastlord is doing 200dps and they get aggro over someone doing 150dps. It's not even when the beastlord is doing 200dps and someone else is doing 200dps. Rather you have situations where a beastlord is actually doing less damage than many other classes, they haven't debuffed the mob or done anything else to generate aggro, yet they are the ones that pull aggro off the MT or get summoned and killed first on tank changes. Some would say that the beastlord simply has to do less damage or watch their aggro with that tank. However, this same tank that can't keep aggro off the beastlord doing X damage is successfully keeping aggro off the wizard doing X+100 damage or the rogue doing X + 50 damage, etc.
There are currently several reasons for this issue. The first of which is how beastlords do their damage. Melee, nukes, and dots all generate differing amounts of aggro. DoTs are currently very high aggro, poison counters are high aggro, and it's been shown that focus effects and crit DoT AA add to aggro well nuke focus/AA does not. Also you have the fact that beastlords are the only offensive melee class that doesn't have any means of lowering their aggro outside of simply doing less damage. Rangers have jolt, rogues evade, monks FD.
Possible solutions:
- Look into DoT aggro. As it stands now the ratio of damage to aggro on many of these spells is far to high both before and after focus/AA are considered. This is not a beastlord specific issue by any means as shaman and necros have similar problems.
- Consider adding a proc buff that lowers aggro. Currently beastlords are the only "hybrid" that don't get a self proc buff. The major upside of this is that beastlords will only be lower'n their aggro well actually melee'n. Adding a skill like evade would allow beastlords to lower aggro from slowing and other higher aggro activities.
- Make future AAs more in line with how beastlords work. That means more spell crit AAs and things that add damage without adding extra aggro.
- Finally, consider adding a DEaggro component to feral swipe (see below for more information please).
4) Improve pet heals - Current healing of sorsha (62 beastlord heal) is all but unuseable by beastlords. The spell sees some use as the beastlord goes from 62 to 65, but as the beastlord progresses the spell gets used less and less. The main problem with the heal is it's 9 second casting time. In almost any situation a beastlord would find themselves wanting to cast a heal on their pet 9 seconds is just far too long to wait. As such many beastlords simply don't mem the spell at all. This, again, is not just a beastlord issue, but a pet class issue in my opinion.
Possible solution:
- Lower the casting on sorsha to ~3.5 seconds. This makes it possible to actually have the heal land in the situations where you would be using it. With the lower casting time beastlords would understand a recast time being added to the spell so that our sustained healing per second and our efficency didn't change from what it currently is. Our intention isn't to improve the spell as much as it is to simply make it functional.
5) Feral swipe issues - Feral swipe is an AA that has a lot of potential, but unfortunately suffers from several issues. The first problem with feral swipe is that it's current dps boost is very minor. In even the best of situations the skill does noteably less damage than kick does. The skill being on a one minute refresh is very streaky and it's not unheard of to go 15 minutes without having a single feral swipe land. Also the AA still has a small range issue. The range was increased once, but it wasn't quite enough. There are still monsters that you can melee, but you can't land your feral swipe. Spacing is extremely important in these cases and as such feral swipe becomes completely useless. Finally, feral swipe takes up yet another hot key space that is getting to be in almost as much demand as spell gem spaces. When a beastlord has pet controls, kick, prot spirit, possibly spells and macros along with other AAs in their hot key bank they simply don't have room to add another button. I know several beastlords that haven't purchased this skill simply because they have no room to actually activate it well playing.
Possible solutions:
- Please improve the range of feral swipe a bit more. The first change fixed most of the issues, but there are still some fights where the skill simply can't be used.
- Raise the damage on feral swipe and have it lock out kick. This keeps the AA as the dps booster it was, but allows it to take the place of kick. Thus just swapping out the kick hot key for the new feral swipe one. Having the new skill average out to being a bit more damage than feral swipe + kick now does would be great.
- Forget the dps portion of feral swipe and turn this skill into a means of lowering beastlord aggro. The skill should always land in that case and would simply reduce the beastlords hate similiar to jolt or possibly lowering hate intitally and then lowering it a bit more overtime.
6) Pet runspeed - This is mainly an issue indoors, but what happens is you have beastlords have various ranks of AA run speed and swift journey and the pet simply gets left behind sometimes or takes awhile to catch up.
Possible solution:
- Have the pet naturally move at a faster rate.
- Have the pet take on the AA runspeed that the owner has.
7) Suspended pets zoning - I know it's been stated that currently there is no desire to have suspended pets zone, but beastlords would like this looked into a bit more, or perhaps more of an explaination given. The real issue with this comes about well running through several dangerous zones, or if your invis drops well you are leaving a dangerous zone. In those cases you either have to try to unsuspend your pet before zoning or lose them. Most can understand how having 2 pets (1 out and 1 suspended) well zoning could be overpowering, but the main issue is zoning well invis in which case you wouldn't have 2 pets.
Possible solutions:
- Let suspended pets zone
- Have a check that sees if the player is invis'd and if so allow the suspended pet to zone. This guarantees the player only has one pet and that pet is already suspended.
7+1) Hobble of spirits - This is an AA for beastlords that again sees very little use because of a few major issues. First of all the proc buff overwrites rellic, but you can't overwrite hobble back again. This would be a non-issue if #2 from above were done. Currently though being locked into hobble and losing your other proc for it's duration is a problem. Also hobble doesn't stack with rellic. The beastlord gives up a lot of damage and a stun to get a semi-reliable snare currently.
Possible solutions:
- Allow all proc buffs to overwrite each other.
- Allow hobble of spirits to stack with other beastlord proc buffs.
- Add a second rank to hobble that gives the snare proc a DD component as well.
I'm going to wait on the last 2 items until monday so more people can respond and offer feedback. There are a lot of other issues mentioned already from beastlord only weapons to pet upgrades to dps AAs. Please offer any feedback you feel neccessary and I'll do what I can. Now is also a good time to fill in some numbers if you want to. Is ~3.5 seconds on sorsha heal ok? Should skill caps go up to 250 like hth? Things like that. Also don't forget all of the other AAs. I know some still have issues with beastial alignment. Still have almost a week before this is passed along, so please keep up with the information and feedback.
Yeah, that's looking good. Not much of it will impact on me, but that's cool, just some stuff to look forward too.
I don't think my idea for a lv49 intermediate (non pet) healing spell is gonna make the grade eh? Ah well, can't win em all, but I would like the 'pet's keeping up with you' suggestion implemented. This could have particular relevance now that they zone with us, thus will be 'staying up' more often. Please don't make this subject to AA's :(
I'm loving the agro issue btw. Out of all of this list, this one has particular relevence to me. Perhaps a jolt type spell could be implemented.
"This could have particular relevance now that they zone with us, thus will be 'staying up' more often. Please don't make this subject to AA's"
I'm a bit curious on this. My understanding is that most have issues with the pet because of runspeed AA. Simply put with AA the owner moves faster than the pet. If you don't have any AAs then the only way you are going to be moving faster than the pet is if you buff yourself with a spell, in that case you can just buff the warder as well. I guess I'm kinda confused. Do you want the pet to just naturally move at sow speed so you don't have to buff it when you buff yourself or?
After Run3, I often don't bother SOWing myself (or, just don't refresh it when it wears off) so I often move about unSOWed.
When you run at Run3 speed, your warder still moves as you would without Run3 (unless he's SOWed)
I'd like the pet run speed to advance as you advance, but I want my warder to recieve it innately proportionate to me gaining RunX aa's. I wouldn't like the idea of a Pet Run Speed set of aa's - ie Pet Run 1, Pet Run 2 etc - just worried Sony may introduce aa's for this.
Oh lol. No of course not. This wasn't meant as an AA, simply having the pet automatically take on the run speed AAs the owner already has. If owner has run speed 2 then that's how fast pet moves, etc.
was part of my list on previous thread.... however the single biggest issue I have with things right now is still:
Replace teruptan spirit. About anything is a better spell at this point.
i dont personally like adding deagro to feral swipe, if bst agro is gonna be looked at, it needs to be looked at across the board and not jsut 65 with aa's. its a class thing. id just like feral swipe to do more dps and tied with kick personally
I agree that aggro is a beastlord issue. That's why you have a section that is just besatlord aggro in general where one of the suggestions mentioned feral swipe. Another seciton on feral swipe that mentions the deaggro, but also mentions tieing it to kick. If it's tied to kick then it's tied to slam too which some don't care for atm though.
I have to agree with Rarrum, Tureptan Spirit should be exchanged with another spell, best would be a heal but i guess everything is better than the spell it is at the moment.
Agree with the others Turepan Spirit spell needs to be change to something useful. A heal the same as the ranger or a HoT if they are trying to seperate us from the rangers heals.
List looks good. Don't agree with it all, but agree with enough of it. ;)
Big one for me not on the list is: Replace Turepan Spirit. I'd be very happy if they replaced it with the same heal spell rangers get.
Other choice as a replacement would be an upgraded Spirit of Rallic. Up the damage a bit and up the level that stun lands.
I would also like to see the spell issue raised up on the list to replace run speed on warders.
Nalitra
QuoteReplace Turepan Spirit. I'd be very happy if they replaced it with the same heal spell rangers get.
I just cant aggree with this though. Not that I will ever see the spell(I am trying though) but looking at lvls going to 70 which will probably mean increase in stats of 5 that you can max.
So, with planar power 5 and lvl 65 you should be able to raise your stats to 305. Then add in lvl 70, that will take it up to 330 presuming this is the case.
I know I read somewhere here where a use was found for it. Now mind you I have not been to that zone so taking word of mouth on it what it does to ones stats.
Most I group wish I had this spell. Other classes do know bout it at least. And not having a shaman in the group where as I am the buffer they know how fast we drain our mana down.
A heal would be nice but while looking over the Post 65 to 70 spells, we will get one so I can wait till then.
Think the list looks good. Might want to relook the 4th point though. The last line states that pet healing is something that affects all pet classes but the point to the 4th..err...point is only about our lvl 62 spell casting length. Anyway, would just suggest some rewording for clarification.
On the point about agro (yes i know, again, I fully comprehend your arguments for it btws)
I prefer the 2nd and 3rd solutions i.e. do not mess with the dots please.
Feral swipe should remain a DPS AA i.e. fixed, or taken away and replaced with a DPS AA that works.
Rest looks fine. Feral swipe should remain a DPS AA i.e. fixed, or taken away and replaced with a DPS AA that works.
Quote- Look into DoT aggro. As it stands now the ratio of damage to aggro on many of these spells is far to high both before and after focus/AA are considered. This is not a beastlord specific issue by any means as shaman and necros have similar problems.
As Tastian has said, other dot classes also have this problem though. We have other means of creating and generating aggro if we so do so. But we must also look into helping other classes that might share our woes.
There's a shaman I group with from time to time and has said he would love to use his DoTs more on raids and such but due to the aggro and summoning its just not worth it.
Tureptan Spirit would be much more useful if it also contained the hit points of Kragg (365 hp). This would make it a viable alternative for Shaman's Focus of the Seventh in groups where a Shaman is not available. Most of the people I know click off IoS as they don't need the stats (*I* don't even need IoS to max my stats) so the hp from Kragg and/or stamina from Stamina or IoS is the only thing most folks are really interested in. To make it fair, I'd suggest upping the mana cost for TS to put it more in line with the 1800 needed for Focus, taking into account the superior nature of Focus as well (544 hp plus higher stat caps for Str and Dex)... making it 975 would be the same as casting TS (600 mana) and Kragg (375 mana). The duration is good as is (1 hour 12 mins for TS as opposed to 1 hr 20 min for Focus), and Focus should overwrite it.
As for making it a heal... personally, I don't see the need for a spell that's only useful to us when we solo. At 65, IMHO, the focus should be on group dynamics and support. Spells that benefit the group or raid as a whole as opposed to just us or a single target should be the direction our spells are moving. Group support can still be used when soloing (ie, SD or SV) but still offer more as a group spell than a single target spell.
In regards to Feral Swipe, I'd rather it stay a pure dps move than be turned into something other than what I purchased. I bought it for dps, and dps is what it provides -- making it a more reliable form of dps (higher chance to hit or a minimum damage component or even a faster refresh so it can be a true replacement for Kick/Bash) is the path I would rather see it take. I can handle getting agro (Protective Spirit is handy for that) for now, and would recommend the addition of deagro tools rather than replacing our dps with them!
Sorsha is a level 61 spell. :)
Quote from: Iskandar
As for making it a heal... personally, I don't see the need for a spell that's only useful to us when we solo. At 65, IMHO, the focus should be on group dynamics and support. Spells that benefit the group or raid as a whole as opposed to just us or a single target should be the direction our spells are moving. Group support can still be used when soloing (ie, SD or SV) but still offer more as a group spell than a single target spell.
Its not really about solo its about trying to keep a caster alive in the group when your healer is busy. With the inflation of people HP and the size of AE that are now in the game chloroblast just doesnt have enough power to try and keep anyone alive.
Chloroblast is ok for solo but is as annoying as hell trying to heal 8.7k HP with a 428 (509 with aa) HP heal.
Quote from: Kensia_Chloroblast is ok for solo but is as annoying as hell trying to heal 8.7k HP with a 428 (509 with aa) HP heal.
The Ranger heal "Sylvan Light" (which has been suggested here to be the basis of a new heal for us) is only 525 hp with a 3 second cast time like Chloroblast -- a spell like this would still be "annonying as hell" to try and heal an 8.7k player, especially during a fight. In a fight, I am rarely able to successfully finish casting Chloroblast before a caster dies, and when I do the difference it makes is negligible. I'm sorry, but I just don't see that changing with a better heal, especially considering the damage mobs deal at this level. It's nice for post-fight patching, but seriously -- how much low health downtime does your raid/group have after a fight with wards, bard songs, and group heals/HoT from Clerics, Druids, Shamen, and Paladins all over the place?
Keep in mind too that Beastlords were built as a dps class, not a healing class -- note that Chloro, which we get at 55, is a
39 Shaman spell and a 44 Druid spell. Yes, Rangers get it at 55 too, and yes, Rangers get Sylvan Light at 65 now.... but I am not a Ranger, I am a Beastlord. Yeah, I'd love a better heal -- but I'd prefer better group utility. TS has great potential as a lesser Focus (all it needs is a hp component) in most groups and on many smaller raids, as Shamen are not always around... as a lesser heal, it becomes a solo tool with only slight usage in most groups, usually after the fight is over, and is of negligible use to a raid as a whole (unless you intend to click and spam heal 72 people one after the other :) ).
PET RUN SPEED:
Prior to obtaining run3, I had to wait for my pet when both of us had SOW.
Added to this problem is the pet pathing.
PET SUMMON:
I hardly use this spell (clicky glove) when in a fight. The cast time is just too long. The beastlord is a melee, and should be doing damage, not wasting time with long cast spells.
I would like to see this spell cast time reduced, or, better yet, changed to a discipline.
HEALING:
I have been the secondary, or standby healer more times than I like.
I would actually like to see shamans get a better healing role in groups, before beastlords. There is a shortage of healers. A possible solution would be to beef up the power of the "secondary" healers. (Druids,
Shamans, Beastlords, in that order)
I know I harp on this, but I again plead with the beastlord community to keep in mind those lower levels.
The beastlord has a long slog in levels untill level 49, when spells and abilities become attractive.
Once the beastlord has reached 51, the spells available are a must over obtaining AA's.
Keep up the good work!
Quotenote that Chloro, which we get at 55, is a 39 Shaman spell and a 44 Druid spell.
We get ChloroBLAST at 62, and it heals for 428 base. You are referring to chloroplast here, the regen spell.
I've given this some re-thought.
Like Iskandar, I'd rather that Feral Swipe remain a DPS skills. Just make irt refresh as often as kick OR make it always land or SOMETHING to make it useful.
My dream?
FS1 - High Damage replacement for Kick
FS2 - High Damage replacement for Kick that never misses
FS3 - High Damage replacement for Kick that never misses and has the stun effects of slam
FS4 - 20% chance to double FS, otherwise same as FS3
FS5 - 50% chance to double FS, otherwise same as FS3
Deagro should really be a different skill entirely, preferably a discipline instead of an AA.
Quote from: HerekiWe get ChloroBLAST at 62, and it heals for 428 base. You are referring to chloroplast here, the regen spell.
Doh! You're right, my bad! I've really got to stop typing posts at 5:00 am while waiting for pulls to get to camp :P
Rangers and Beastlords at 62, Druids and Shamen at 55 is the levels for Chloro
blast, but it still doesn't change what I mean :) Replacing a group utility spell with a low-yield single-target heal at 65 isn't going to improve our class as a whole nearly as much as improving the original group utility spell would.
Personally, and a bit off topic, I would suggest we push to get the OoW heal Yeslin's Mending bumped down to 66, and then a second heal added at 69 or 70. This would give us improved healing at higher levels without forcing us to sacrifice utility or dps in the GoD spells. But OoW is a topic for another thread :)
Rather mundane but can we get the pet messages just sent to us vs spaming everyone w/in 50' or whatever?
@Iskandara remember that we heal up to 1018 with chloroblast without any focus item. It helped me (and my fellow casters) quite a bit during elemental and time, in GoD however its not very usefull anymore, thats why i want a better heal. TS at the moment is completely useless if you can get it. With added hp like a mini focus it will have the same stacking issues for casters as the normal focus.
QuotePET SUMMON:
I hardly use this spell (clicky glove) when in a fight. The cast time is just too long. The beastlord is a melee, and should be doing damage, not wasting time with long cast spells.
I would like to see this spell cast time reduced, or, better yet, changed to a discipline.
We have a faster cast item already, works from inventory without any need to equip it: Ribbon of Empathy (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=65562).
Chloroblast
Slot Description
1: Increase Hitpoints by 428
Mana: 175 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 3 Recast Time: 2.25
Fizzle Time: 2.5 Range: 200
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Deletable: Yes Interruptable: Yes
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Beneficial
Category: Heal [Instant] Source: Live 07/14
Classes: RNG/62 DRU/55 SHM/55 BST/62
Duration: Instant
Items with spell: Spell: Chloroblast
Cast on you: You are blasted with chlorophyll.
Cast on other: Someone is blasted with chlorophyll.
Game Description: Mends severe wounds, healing between #1 and @1 hit points.
Sylvan Light
Slot Description
1: Increase Hitpoints by 525
Mana: 195 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 3 Recast Time: 2.25
Fizzle Time: 2.5 Range: 200
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Deletable: No Interruptable: Yes
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Beneficial
Category: Heal [Instant] Source: Live 07/14
Classes: RNG/65
Duration: Instant
Items with spell: Spell: Sylvan Light
Cast on you: Your body is bathed in sylvan light.
Cast on other: Someone 's body is bathed in sylvan light.
I dont know, not much of a difference. And I view our heals as downtime only. I gave up trying to save the caster with a heal that with aa's and pray to god a chance to crit hit for a decent amount. Now I just try to piss off the mob that is beating on the caster more.
This is going to be one of those issues that where ever you cross you will please some people and not everyone else.
Think we could add the ability to invis with a pet to this list? Either by casting see invis on the pet or some other way. I know breaking charm is an issue, that's why casting see invis would solve that.
-Lith
My "wish" is for Pets to not poof when invised! I see that they removed the poofing for CoTH on test.... I would like a non-poofing Warder. I know that Suspend can be used, but that doesn't help lower level players who are more likely to use Invis to save their butts (like in LoY zones). <see thread on Poofing>
Quote from: Dummkopf@Iskandara remember that we heal up to 1018 with chloroblast without any focus item.
True, but it's just a 10% chance of a crit heal for that much after spending 24 AA though (Healing Adept I/II/III and Healing Gift I/II/III), which can be pretty pricey for many Beastlords, especially considering all the other useful AA we have available at 65.
Like you say though, our heals are ineffective in a group in GoD -- it's not so much because the heal itself is useless, but because the ratio of our healing ability vs npc damage output is skewed heavily in favor of the mobs compared to us. Other classes who are intended to be healing classes received heals that improve the ratio in their favor (Holy Light and Holy Elixer for Clerics, Sylvan Infusion for Druids, Wave of Trushar and Light of Order for Paladins, Breath of Trushar and Daluda's Mending for Shamen -- some direct heals, some HoT). These spells make these classes more effective healers against the mobs we face in higher GoD content, whereas we receive dps-oriented spells (Turepta Blood and Trushar's Frost) and group utility with Tureptan Spirit.
Say, for the sake of argument, that Tureptan Spirit is changed to a 525 point heal (an exact copy of the Ranger heal). Keep in mind it's still a level 65 GoD rune-drop spell, so it's useless to a 64 hunting in BoT who wants a Chloro upgrade. After spending 24 AA, you'll have a 10% chance to crit heal for (if my math is right, which I kinda doubt :D) 1260, a little over 200 points more than you can currently with Chloroblast. Is that REALLY going to make or break a fight against something that's quadding for 750-1.7k? Or on a raid where the boss ae rampages (infuriate sucks :P), quads for 2-3k, or procs an ae dd?
It's nice, yes -- I'm not denying that.... but is it a more efficient use of mana and effort than a group utility? And which works best for the group/raid: removing yourself from melee for 1-4 rounds to spam heal a caster who has aggro, or remaining in melee to kill the mob faster before it can kill more of your friends? Personally, if a mob has agro on a caster in my group, I hit it with slow and/or a dot/debuff to get it on me, then hit Protective Spirit so the MT can reacquire agro with minimum damage to me (and minimum stress on the healers). Assuming the caster isn't one-rounded, that works rather nicely, even in GoD.
Say you're exp hunting in a group that consists of a Beastlord, Paladin, Warrior, Druid, Wizard, and Cleric. There is no Shaman available for Focus and no Enchanter for C5 if you don't already have it. Assume 5 of the 6 want both IoS and Kragg, and your warder could use an IoS too. To single buff both spells would cost 375x5 for Kragg and 200x6 for IoS = 3075 mana base (Mana Preservation type effects would reduce this, of course) and require 8 seconds per Kragg and 10 seconds per IoS = roughly two minutes. (And keep in mind that the cost in time/mana will be repeated in 72 minutes) Tureptan Spirit as it is now (group IoS) would cost 600 + 5 Kraggs = 2475 mana base and require 10 seconds for TS plus 8 per Kragg = one minute. Add Kragg to the effect of Tureptan Spirit and it would cost considerably less, and be done in ten seconds. This means groups are buffed and ready faster with less downtime after buffing the group (or, God forbid, a raid -- ever play ghetto shaman on a raid when the shamen aren't on? It's not fun, especially if you're the only Beastlord... you spend more time buffing than fighting :( ). Now, in that same group, would you mem a 500 point heal considering the healing abilities of the Paladin, Druid, and Cleric? I wouldn't. I'd swap it for a dot or a dd since 3 of the 6 party members can cover heals much more efficiently than I ever could.
But hey, let's not get too focused on Tureptan Spirit though -- Tastian has some other points worth discussing too (and I am way too gabby for everyone's sanity I think :P )
The problem with TS is that the people that can get it wont use it as the people they group with all have maxxed stats. So it is in effect useless to them. At least an improved heal will actually get used.
Never have DoTs memmed in group or Raid as they generate too much agro.
You trying to tell me you can't figure out how to use DoTs without pulling agro? HMM, I guess I better only use 1 weapon since I might pull agro. That just makes no sense.
What else are you doing that you can't DoT? If you mean you can't chain cast slow, Incapacitate, 2 nukes and a dot, then yes, you are right, that's too much agro.
I just don't understand your reasoning.
QuoteThe problem with TS is that the people that can get it wont use it as the people they group with all have maxxed stats. So it is in effect useless to them. At least an improved heal will actually get used.
That is exactly it. I haven't grouped with someone without maxed stats (other than my own alt ranger) in close to 7 months. The spell is utterly useless because in order to even have a chance at it, you have to be Kod'Taz flagged.
Quote from: RhaynneQuoteThe problem with TS is that the people that can get it wont use it as the people they group with all have maxxed stats. So it is in effect useless to them. At least an improved heal will actually get used.
That is exactly it. I haven't grouped with someone without maxed stats (other than my own alt ranger) in close to 7 months. The spell is utterly useless because in order to even have a chance at it, you have to be Kod'Taz flagged.
Yep. I got TS cause....well...I hate having an empty spellbook, but I loathe it. Group IoS is just plain silly at the level of play you have to be to get it. At least if it were droppable, you could sell it/give it away to a 65 BST in a low tier guild and make them happy. The spell would see lots more use then.
QuoteYou trying to tell me you can't figure out how to use DoTs without pulling agro? HMM, I guess I better only use 1 weapon since I might pull agro. That just makes no sense.
What else are you doing that you can't DoT? If you mean you can't chain cast slow, Incapacitate, 2 nukes and a dot, then yes, you are right, that's too much agro.
I just don't understand your reasoning.
I have to agree that i rarely use one of my poison dots during raid, i still have one in my usual spell-set but the risk of getting aggro is very high. And that is without incapacitate or slowing. Just chaincasting 2 nukes and meleeing is enough to get very high aggro (still use my ED in mainhand tho, the other hammer in offhand).
New revision is up top...
http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2918
please comment there if you need. 8)