pet vs our dps

[hakaaba]

Do you think it would be feasible to generate a rough chart of pet vs beastlord dps over "progression"?

I know tastian has 1000000 parses  :wink: and it'd be invaluable for being a really easy way to show how pets are drastically less useful than they used to be to those who would otherwise not understand or believe it.

Something to this effect but made in excel instead of paint:

[Shieara]

I'm not sure it will be so simple, even breaking it down by levels.

There's a lot of variation in dps per beastlord by gear, aa, playstyle, and situation.  It even depends on the mob you are fighting.  The pet's dps shouldn't vary that much per player, but it still would depend on some factors like what spells you are buffing it with, which focus effect, etc.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot of variables.

[Khauruk]

Yes, but many (most) of the parses were done on the Arena Test Dummies, I'm guessing.

Something along the lines of this might be helpful:
1-68 pets unfocused, w/ level appropriate proc spells.
68 pet w/ Time/LDoN/RSS or DON Focus, and 2 highest procs, 1.5 proc
70 pet w/ RSS/DON/Raid Foci, highest proc, 1.5 and 2.0 procs

Most of the info's probably out there - just need to get it put together.

[Tastian]

Your picture rocks, but it's way off. 

My pet used to do about 2X the dps I did.  That is without factoring in the proc.  Now the pet does less than half my dps.

Aka. pet was 66% of my total dps(ish), it is now less than 33% in most situations.

I could probably pull together some data, but the points that always stick out in my head are...

Level 50something, KKatar, GIU (hey it was luclin lol) and I was doing ~20 melee dps and warder was putting out ~40dps.

Level 70(something because of AAs lol) Me doing 200+ dps, warder doing ~100 with at the time top pet focus.

The % of our dps from pets is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down from what it was.  Our warders would have kicked our @$$ 8 ways to sunday for a fair bit of our lives(even if twinked).  Now a days my warder doesn't even come close to keeping up.

I mean I actually let my warder stay dead in various situations.  There is no way I would have allowed that to happen at earlier levels.  I used to actually keep the pet spell and buffs mem'd just in case they fell or something went wrong because I had no chance if they weren't alive.  *shrugs*

[hakaaba]

yeah i made it in like 30 seconds in paint, so its not gonna be perfect.  And i definatly do remember my pet massivly out-dpsing me even disregarding proc dps completely. :p Let me futz with it a little.

better? :)

It's got our dps at about half the pet's for the majority of levels 9-60 then we hit the luclin-pop high point in progression and move up to about even.  Then, progressing through time were at about double it's dps and it goes up from there to my own personal data point (late anguish, 330,100) and up from there heh

Well thats just sustained melee dps with no non-haste buffs so really it should be alot higher but you may have noticed its already off the chart :p

[Rarrum]

Yeah.. I remember back when I used to keep pet's buffs memmed all the time "just in case", as I was semi-helpless without pet.

Then like a year ago... going through WoS without a pet up... invis dropped and I got agro.  First response was the "old one" of "ack.. pet not up.. I'm dead".  Then I killed the thing without a pet.  Was kinda sad to see our pet had become so "optional".

Last night.. I had a strange dream too.  It was a PoFire like place... I attacked one of those fire-headed guys that are all over the castles.  I was on one side with pet on the other.  Then another one came and pet turned on it.  Mob threw some flame thing at it and pet fell over dead instantly =/  ...then they both turned to me, so I ran to the zone (which convienantly happened to be right there).

--

Anyways.. back to the dps thing.  Yeah... at level 9 our pet was absolutely awesome.  It did more than us.. and once we got our first procs that only added to that.  Maybe 30+ (not counting pet hell levels) we were kinda equalish.

Then came PoPower... where our pets became mob-fodder (died so easy compared to against stuff in Luclin).  It sorta stayed gimped this way till today even. Their damage has continued to go up, but at a much lower rate than that of non-pets.

Here's a recent parse from our guild (bear in mind we're tier 1 demiplane).. on AMV in anguish (roughly 1m 30s fight):
me: 604dps
warder: 202dps
dodh pet: 127dps
all were attacking the whole time

Let's even give our warder the benefit of the doubt and say it's procs don't parse, and add 50dps to it for that.

So just with me+warder:
me=604/(252+604)=~71% of the damage.
warder=252/(252+604)=~29% of the damage.

If you include DoDH pet in those figures:
me=604/(604+252+127)=~61%
warder=252/(604+252+127)=~26%
dodh pet=127/(604+252+127)=~13%

So yeah...

[hakaaba]

i assume you disc'd which is why the pets dps is so high?

[Rarrum]

Hmm.. I don't recall for 100% certainty.. I think I used Empathic Fury disc though, yeah.

[hakaaba]

hehe so your (rather pessimistic) findings were actually strongly biased towards the warder o,0

[Tastian]

I still consider dodh a part of "me".  It's just like a nuke or a dot or whatever.  If CB(dot) was landing I'd count that.  If you are talking about pure melee dps or even melee + proc dps that is one comparision, but I prefer talking about "warder alive" verse "warder dead".  Previously if our warder was dead we'd be running at 20-33(ish)% damage, depending.  Now there are times where my warder can die and I don't even bother taking the time to make a new one.  That would have never happened in the past.  *shrugs*

[hakaaba]

I also considered the DoD pet to be "non-pet" dps.  Thats bad naming on my part :p  It should read "non-warder dps"

[Tastian]

Yeah.  My thinking has always been "this is beastlord with warder", "this is beastlord without warder".  hehe

Going from 9 to 60 losing warder meant a drop of up to 80(ish)% dps.  Now losing warder means a drop of 20(ish) depending.  At the sametime one can see how our dps has gone up considerably, so it isn't as simple as "warder dps went down", but it does show how crazy progression has been and how the class that beastlords are now at 70 isn't close to the class they were at 20, 50 or even 60.  *shrugs*

[hakaaba]

Do me a favor and hit rashere over the head with that graph, thanks  :-D

It's very extensible, too.  It could probably apply to mages, necros, and "survivability" just as easily

[Tastian]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'll cry if after all the things done in the past that graph makes a dev go "omfg it's all so clear now".  8P

Then again, "hey this bst in my guild out tanks me" got ranger caps changed so who knows lol. 

[Dasquid]

Now there are times where my warder can die and I don't even bother taking the time to make a new one.

So true, I use 1 warder a night when I'm raiding, once it dies, thats it.  I dont make another. Its not worth the effort keeping it alive for the damage it does. My guild does an aug run in Anguish every day to start raids, and Im surprised whenever my warder doesnt get killed by the golems that rampage.