Issue with Spirit of Hoshkar (Dev info)

[Wolfcaller]

There's a very recent thread on maxing DPS right here: http://forums.beastlords.org/index.php/topic,8211.0.html

[kindarring2]

Read that and has very little on a pure set-up
Should read out more like:
Spell gems:

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10



Then disc/spell order on you
First burn
second
thrid
4th if still left or what do u use

Something like this would make more since and help more people out. Now rk's LVL aa's gear will all make a diff. on how high your DPS is but this way it would give people the right idea on the order. Monks and rouges and zerkers all pretty much talk about this stuff and have a way they all do it no matter the lvl ect.... So why can't beast all get on the same page.

[Damim]

I'm pretty sure that unless you have to cooridnate with other group members (i.e. epic clicks from Shm etc) it's a no brainer.  Burn all available discs, nuke ever time the gem refreshes (3 of them, poison and 2 cold), swarm pet every time the gem refreshes, growl once all unstackable discs are burned.  If you have 7th AA burn it at the same time you do bestial empathy.  Kick, Foray, Roar, etc every time they pop. 

Yeah, the pet should do more dps, but the pet has just been a bonus to MY dps for a long time, not a source for dps.  I'll take any fixes that the devs can offer, but in the mean time, I do what I can to increase MY dps, not worried about the pet.

[Obsessedwith]

I'm pretty sure that unless you have to cooridnate with other group members (i.e. epic clicks from Shm etc) it's a no brainer.  Burn all available discs, nuke ever time the gem refreshes (3 of them, poison and 2 cold), swarm pet every time the gem refreshes, growl once all unstackable discs are burned.  If you have 7th AA burn it at the same time you do bestial empathy.  Kick, Foray, Roar, etc every time they pop. 

Yeah, the pet should do more dps, but the pet has just been a bonus to MY dps for a long time, not a source for dps.  I'll take any fixes that the devs can offer, but in the mean time, I do what I can to increase MY dps, not worried about the pet.

The pet is YOUR DPS, part of the reason our double and triple attack skills are so low is because we have a pet that was supposed to make up the difference.  At least that was the idea when beastlords where created, at this point i would rather them drop the damn warder and increase our double attack and triple attack skills (yes i know i am nuts) as well as making the growl line non pet dependent.

[wildwaters]

   Well I am hardly maxed dps aa's (pet or self) but i've always considered the pet part of my dps not my dps. I parse a good 20-30 percent less with out my pet but I still can put out respectable numbers /shrug.

[Obsessedwith]

My point is that because of us being handed mediocrity time and time again we have come to accept weak pets, and i was pointing out why we should not have weak pets, yes i have played a beast since they started, on my second one now for the last 3 years.  I remember back in the day at level 9 you summoned your pet like an aa and it leveled with you taking on a portion of your stats as it progressed, i also remember why we had no double attack skills till after pop.  The pet was supposed to be something we could rely on to not only be a good boost to dps in groups but to be able to tank for us solo while we were capable of healing it consistently, right now it is neither.  Should we just do as Impha has said to do and basically suck it up and make due or do we take a stand against this bs and demand that one of our class defining attributes, not to mention along with slow the biggest excuses for other classes and dev's to deny us better melee capabilites, be fixed properly?

[Ravenlock]

I agree Obsessed, we need to demand a better pet.  Our pet was supposed to be very very close to the mage pet in terms of power which is why our skills are capped so low.  Mages had to fight tooth and nail to get the huge pet upgrade they got in SoF and we have to do the same now.  Don't settle for mediocrity and don't let Mages tell you how our pet should or shouldn't be.  Right now our pet DPS is close to SK pet DPS, this can't be allowed and never should have happened.

[Damim]

I'm pretty sure that unless you have to cooridnate with other group members (i.e. epic clicks from Shm etc) it's a no brainer.  Burn all available discs, nuke ever time the gem refreshes (3 of them, poison and 2 cold), swarm pet every time the gem refreshes, growl once all unstackable discs are burned.  If you have 7th AA burn it at the same time you do bestial empathy.  Kick, Foray, Roar, etc every time they pop. 

Yeah, the pet should do more dps, but the pet has just been a bonus to MY dps for a long time, not a source for dps.  I'll take any fixes that the devs can offer, but in the mean time, I do what I can to increase MY dps, not worried about the pet.

The pet is YOUR DPS, part of the reason our double and triple attack skills are so low is because we have a pet that was supposed to make up the difference.  At least that was the idea when beastlords where created, at this point i would rather them drop the damn warder and increase our double attack and triple attack skills (yes i know i am nuts) as well as making the growl line non pet dependent.

I'm not telling anyone that they have to settle.  I do what I can with what I got.  I feel that we as a class have been pretty lucky the past few expansions in terms of power increases.    No matter what the devs can or will do with the pets, there are always those that will be unhappy because X class has a better pet or X class's pet does more dps.  I'm glad that I'm not dependent on the pet like I was 30 levels ago (you know, when the pet was a lot bigger part of our dps). 

Of course, what happens when we are told that we are pretty well balanced and that any increases in our pet will lead to decreases in our other abilities?  Or, of course, there is always the other classes that already think we are "overpowered" and will see this as an affront to their class in some way and we get further nerfs (i.e. Group Bestial Alignment)?

I guess that I've decided that I'm going to "suck it up" and make due with what I got  :-P

[wildwaters]

   I dont know, a good and knowledgable beast can usually parse up there with monks, rogues and lazy rangers. I always parse higher than our mages over prolonged fights.
  I dont think inphared is saying suck it up - I think he looks at the  larger picture. With our new aa's our over all class boost is significant. From alot of higher end beasts and retired higher end beasts I only hear that we got significant boosts to our dps with the last expansion. Some of those effect our pets and are aa's that tier to the pet. The only place I really hear alot of complaining about our pet is on these boards >.< Mostly amongst the beasts I know there is great satisfaction with the improvements we have obtained.
  Personallt I think the beastlord is moving in a different direction in terms of previous expansions. For example I don't see beasts pet tanking as much anymore with the new groupable gear and mercs available. It is much more efficient (especially with high mob hit points) for me to tank and have merc healing me. Allthough I will admit to being slightly better than group geared >.<
  Why we want to compare ourselves to mages I will never know.

[Vidyne]

Mages, Enchanters, and ShadowKnights had to fight tooth and nail to get the huge pet upgrade they got in SoF and we have to do the same now. 

Right now our pet DPS is lower than Shadowknight and enchanter pets, except after purchasing some flurry/crit aa, this can't be allowed and never should have happened.

Fixed your statements :)

Level 83 Minion of Sebilis Rk. II, Buffed with Expatiate Death Rk. II (78 Self buff), no pet aa's, no gear
Vebober -vs- Combined: Test Eighty Five: -- DMG: 498638 -- Time: 30:04 -- DPS: 277 -- Scaled: 277 -- Hit: 473324 -- Bash: 13764 -- Kick: 11550 -- Non-crit rate: 99.2% -- crit rate: 0.8% -- Attempts: 2225 -- Hits: 2225 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 224 -- Max hit: 435 -- DMG to PC: 0

Level 78 Maladroit Minion Rk. II, Buffed with Expatiate Death Rk. II (78 Self buff), no pet aa's, no gear
Kibn -vs- Combined: Test Eighty Five: -- DMG: 407553 -- Time: 30:04 -- DPS: 226 -- Scaled: 226 -- Hit: 385779 -- Bash: 11482 -- Kick: 10292 -- Non-crit rate: 99% -- crit rate: 1% -- Attempts: 3440 -- Hits: 2201 -- Missed: 1239 -- Accuracy: 64% -- Avg Hit: 118 -- Max hit: 358 -- DMG to PC: 0

And I parsed my enchanter 81 pet rk 2 with mage pet weapons and erradien rk 2 haste at
265dps
with no flurry/crit AA

Hoshkar parsed a 210 melee dps with 40dps from proc with no AA, and EM1 focus.
Hoshkar parsed a 290 melee dps with 55dps from proc with flurry17, crit20
The epic 2.0 which every bst may not have added around 30 or 40 dps to the flurry17/crit20 parse as well if memory serves.

A 76 SS air pet with no pet AA, and /pet no cast to remove stun DD, parsed 405dps
A 71 SS air pet with the same, parsed 162dps

The whole thing goes back to SoF and the reworking they did of pets.
SK, Enc, Mag  got 150%(double is 100%) or higher boosts to dps
Bst(and to my knowledge, Nec and Shm) didn't.

If that's the way devs envision pets...  not alot you can do about it. /shrugs.  I just remind my group members that my pet isn't as good in this content as older pets were.  I still can use him to offtank when needed, he doesn't hold up nearly as well as older pets used to version content back then, but its not unplayable.

[Ravenlock]

Haha thank you Vidyne!  It's worse than I thought then. 

I think the problem is that we have a fracture in the beastlord community when it comes to pets.  I started the Beastlord when Luclin came out because of the PET first and the ability to melee/buff second.  Our pets were advertised as super tanking and taunting machines that could easily hold aggro as the beastlord pulled out of combat to heal himself and the pet.  This was very true for a long time.  Our pets could easily tank and pull aggro from almost anyone including air pets and we had the far superior pet heals.  I think this is what a lot of people expected when they rolled a beastlord, it's at least what I expected.

Now it seems that some beastlords don't care so much about the pet but purely about themselves.  I have even seen people write that they would be happy if the pet was abolished and they had skill caps raised and better discs.  If that's what you want, then roll a monk.  We are supposed to be the second best PET class in the game, not the second best monk in the game.  Our class is based around the warder and it sickens me to see that people are eaither giving up completely on our faithful companions or letting him fade to oblivion as long as they get better melee/tanking abilities.

It just seems to me that a lot of beastlords have lost their way.  This class is not about just you, it's about you and your warder.  The warder was always supposed to be a top notch tanking and aggro machine that could put out near mage pet dps and stand toe to toe with most any exp mob.   Like the beastlord himself, the warder has become frail and weak, but only because their masters let them.

[Hzath]

Meldrath the Malignant on 1/15/2009 in 202sec

Total
--- DMG: 20668506 (100%) @ 102319 dps (102319 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 843647 @4417dps

Hzath
--- DMG: 560211 (2.71%) @ 2948 dps (2773 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 5200 @260dps

Hamerr
--- DMG: 469490 (2.27%) @ 2484 dps (2324 sdps)

Drauger
--- DMG: 419443 (2.03%) @ 2243 dps (2076 sdps)

Hzath`s warder
--- DMG: 144926 (0.7%) @ 767 dps (717 sdps)

Hzath`s pet
--- DMG: 122700 (0.59%) @ 646 dps (607 sdps)

Drauger`s warder
--- DMG: 113589 (0.55%) @ 607 dps (562 sdps)

Hamerr`s warder
--- DMG: 91061 (0.44%) @ 490 dps (451 sdps)

Hamerr`s pet
--- DMG: 54830 (0.27%) @ 319 dps (271 sdps)



This is a recent meldrath burn from my guild.  We all have EM4 pet focus and just recently entered crystallos the day before.  I'm a bit higher than them because I've grinded a lot more of the SoD AAs than they have.  Our warders are very close if you remember I don't pick up their warder procs but I do pick up my own. 

I'm personally more frustrated being dominated by rangers (coming close to 7k) using bow discs than our warders doing slightly less dps than they should.

[rhaug]

time to ask for a strong pet then and a pet that does much more dps.

otherwise why we are capped at double attacked skills etc
if there is no need when our pet doesnt do much damage

let us ask for what we need and deserve.
and not agree with less.

just keep knocking on the doors as beastlords
until soe fixes this in our benefit

and we have a tank and dps pet in one that is near the mage pet dps tankability

[kindarring2]

I think that our class is overpowered at the High end of the game... But its not because of our pets. Our pets blow and need alot of work. I could deal with our pet having the same dps but living on raids. It sucks making 3 pets a raid or more because it died to ramp or dumb stuff. I love what sony has done with our melee and aa's... But our spells and pet do need alot of work.
Also do we even have people fighting for us with this stuff or do we stay unheard. I know sushe has talked and said things in the past (love that kitty) but not sure if she or anyone else is doing anything.

[Denti]

We have to be cautious when asking for a big increase of dps since we overall do good there. Especially if raid geared we often enough are bang in the top melee dps spots, comparable to a well played ranger (of course behind rogues, berserkers and monks). That of course still means that we are way behind our top casters, especially wizards but druds and mages as well (if played well, not many can do that on a mage apparently).

Of course out pet needs a lot of love regardless, but it is of course a game of overall balancing stuff.