Followup DPS when?

Zorthaz · October 14, 2011, 07:55:44 PM

Hello all,

This is a followup to an old post. I am level 90 now with over 2250 AA. I am currently using a Dream Destroyer in my main hand with a 6 dmg 1 cold dmg aug. In my off hand I have a Mace of Imagination with a 2 dmg 1 prismatic dmg aug. Molo/solo I am averaging 4K-5K dps. Earlier this week I was in a group with a bard and a shaman and averaged just over 6K dps for the night. How are you folks getting 7K averages in exp groups? I am currently using the T4 chest proc buff every time it is up. I have a bad habit of saving BA/EF for bad pulls. Are you weaving in BA, EF, NF, GBA into you regular exp grind? I don't use dots other then the deaggro dot and I only have the first level of dot crits. Mana is already an issue for me even with FPOS and POS maxed and hasted. Do you have the mana to weave in dots during the normal grind?

Am I expecting too much for what I have?
Any tips?

Offensive AA left to do:
Dot crits
pet flurries
pet crits
double repost
feral kick
pet frenzy on kill shot
enhance aggression

Thanks,
-Z-

Hzath · October 15, 2011, 02:48:26 AM

I'm curious, is that 4-5k just you or does that include your warder and shout at the moon pet?

Zorthaz · October 15, 2011, 04:47:40 AM

That is me combined with pets and warder. Tonight in MC I averaged 5800 DPS. I had a shaman in the group tonight and on some mobs I was hitting burns of just over 10K.

Here is the combined parse for the night:
Combined: A forest guardian on 10/14/2011 in 3936sec

Total
--- DMG: 52240041 (100.01%) @ 13272 dps (13272 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 8196909 @2085dps

Zorthaz + pets
--- DMG: 22856236 (43.75%) @ 5807 dps (5807 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 1027781 @263dps

Mage + pets
--- DMG: 12208547 (23.37%) @ 3103 dps (3102 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 143883 @39dps

Heloma(war merc)
--- DMG: 6118445 (11.71%) @ 1555 dps (1554 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 6871689 @1748dps

Shaman + pets
--- DMG: 4901215 (9.38%) @ 1247 dps (1245 sdps)

Necro + pets
--- DMG: 4139073 (7.92%) @ 1642 dps (1052 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 31362 @36dps

Gobn
--- DMG: 1363200 (2.61%) @ 539 dps (346 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 93225 @44dps

Gonekn
--- DMG: 653325 (1.25%) @ 166 dps (166 sdps)

Veiprip
--- DMG to PC: 28969 @3621dps

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

Here was the best burn

A forest guardian on 10/14/2011 in 35sec

Total
--- DMG: 579160 (100%) @ 16547 dps (16547 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 67268 @2320dps

Zorthaz + pets
--- DMG: 376585 (65.02%) @ 11412 dps (10760 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 12618 @574dps

Mage + pets
--- DMG: 86280 (14.9%) @ 4314 dps (2465 sdps)

Heloma
--- DMG: 70120 (12.11%) @ 2262 dps (2003 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 54650 @1884dps

Gobn
--- DMG: 25574 (4.42%) @ 825 dps (731 sdps)

Necro
--- DMG: 20601 (3.56%) @ 20601 dps (589 sdps)

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

Thoughts?
-Z-

Khauruk · October 15, 2011, 05:17:20 AM

Honestly, you're not doing bad. You should be able to get the burn a bit better (assuming it's timed with the sham epic click), but your sustained is good. Depending on your AAs, the burn may not get that much better w/o more of them (haven't looked to see what you're missing).

Thelynxeffect · October 15, 2011, 11:57:20 AM

In my opinion your dps isn't too shabby given the gear and level of aa's. However I am :-o at the mage and necro in your group - their dps was lamentable - were they boxed or asleep?

Nusa · October 15, 2011, 12:54:10 PM

You're doing OK. There are a lot of little things that add up to sustained DPS, and some of them only come when you buy the less important AA's.

Type 3's for most of your dps spells and a few discs. They matter! Of course, this also requires a lot of gear with type 3 slots.

Overhaste...if you don't have a bard, that means a clickie. Raiders can get a +16% one. Group drops max out at 8% I think.

Melee and spell focuses. The difference between group and raid gear can be significant.

Weapons. Once again, a difference in group vs raid quality.

Heroic stats....gear again, but even in group gear you should have a lot.

Mana regen AA's...they haven't been high priority AA's since OOC regen came to be, but once you buy everything an extra ~60 mana/tick is significant. The Gift of Mana line also saves a lot of mana. (I do have the mana to DoT...but how fast the mobs die will determine whether I spend it that way.)

Another low priority AA is Finishing Blow...it's a LOT of AA's to max out. However, once you do max it out, you get a lot of free DPS when trash mobs dip below 10%. I get ~190K finishing blows.

Pet AA's....apply to the swarm pets as well as your regular pet. I haven't actually looked at your AA's (eqplayers is broken at the moment, and your magelo is years out of date), but of the list you mentioned, I'd get the pet flurries and crits done next.

That's just off the top of my head...the point is all these little things add up. The other point is that you might be chasing a number that's not achievable as a grouper.

Zorthaz · October 15, 2011, 02:23:46 PM

The necro was pulling and could have been FD'ed at the beginning of the fight to split mobs. That particular necro normally parses much better. The necro left an hour before the group broke up. That night was the first time I had parsed the mage and shaman. Most of the night the mage was clocking between 3-5K.

Here was a couple of nights ago at the pirate ship in MC:

Combined: A vengeful pillager on 10/11/2011 in 3073sec

Total
--- DMG: 38097221 (100%) @ 12397 dps (12397 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 7811163 @2542dps

Zorthaz + pets
--- DMG: 19996521 (52.49%) @ 6535 dps (6507 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 480053 @161dps
--- Special: 7

Paladin
--- DMG: 8815352 (23.14%) @ 2874 dps (2869 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 6165028 @2021dps

Bard + pets
--- DMG: 6747120 (17.71%) @ 2196 dps (2196 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 639759 @208dps
--- Special: X

Shaman + pets
--- DMG: 2538228 (6.66%) @ 832 dps (826 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 34882 @646dps

A clockwork soother CCLXI
--- DMG to PC: 437547 @148dps

Tuphrop
--- DMG to PC: 53894 @25dps

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

A little closer to the magic 7K number. Are you noticing a trend in these group parses?
-Z-

nedoirah · October 15, 2011, 05:03:05 PM

Question:

Are you boxing?

If you are then your sustained could be taking a hit that way. I know mine does. When I run my bst solo (when I mean solo I mean not boxing) in a group, I parse far better. When I box my own group with my shm and sometimes my warrior, my bst dps drops significantly. Another thing that affects my dps is worrying about stealing agro which affects the dps by having to deal with the mobs frontal defensives. Tanking dps is lower than normal non-tanking dps (I.E. dps from behind). Also being in front of the mobs causes you to deal with the frontal defensives of a mob. That lowers dps.

I generally have a 5-6k normal parse when I box and 6-8k when I'm groupiing with someone and not boxing.

Double riposte and feral kick only affects dps if in front or tanking FYI.

Zorthaz · October 16, 2011, 03:12:16 AM

Nope...not boxing.
-Z-

Hzath · October 16, 2011, 04:24:30 AM

Could you post the gamparse spells cast for the exp sessions? A lesson where I push hard my spells cast will look like

Hzathz - 743
--- Armor of Experience - 1
--- Attack of the Warders - 2
--- Bestial Alignment - 2
--- Bestial Bloodrage - 2
--- Bestial Harmony - 3
--- Bestial Harmony Strike - 44
--- Chameleon Strike - 75
--- Chaotic Jester - 1
--- Circle of Power III - 1
--- Companion's Blessing - 1
--- Companion's Sacrifice - 2
--- Dragonscale Guard Rk. II - 1
--- Empathic/Beastial Fury - 3
--- First Spire of the Savage Lord - 3
--- Focused Paragon of Spirit - 14
--- Forceful Rejuvenation - 1
--- Fortify Companion - 1
--- Frenzy of Spirit - 3
--- Frozen Venin Rk. III - 124
--- Gelid Claw - 303
--- Glacial Lance Rk. III - 7
--- Group Bestial Alignment - 3
--- Group Shrink - 1
--- Intensity of the Resolute - 1
--- Jorra's Mending Rk. II - 20
--- Kron's Maelstrom Rk. III - 43
--- Lesson of the Devoted - 1
--- Paragon of Spirit - 3
--- Protective Spirit Disc - 3
--- Raven's Claw - 3
--- Replenish Companion - 1
--- Roar of Thunder - 2
--- Sarsez' Bite Rk. III - 14
--- Shout at the Moon Rk. III - 30
--- Spinechiller Blood - 1
--- Steadfast Servant - 1
--- Summon Companion - 1
--- Suspended Minion - 1
--- Tuzil's Feralgia Rk. III - 15
--- Warder's Gift - 1
--- Wild Spirit Infusion - 4

Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

Lots of people don't use long duration stuff (especially stuff like 7th year and other vet rewards) when exping, but it REALLY adds up if you use it all.

Khauruk · October 16, 2011, 05:34:13 AM

I'm surprised you use Kron's Maelstrom so little compared to Venin, given the huge efficiency gain it gives (even when the doom portion doesn't go off, it's more efficient iirc).

Zorthaz · October 16, 2011, 07:00:40 AM

This was the 6500 dps night with bard and shaman in the MC pirate ship.

Combined: A vengeful pillager on 10/11/2011

Zorthaz - 1382
--- Attack of the Warders - 5
--- Bestial Alignment - 2
--- Bestial Bloodrage - 6
--- Bite of the Asp - 59
--- Bolstering Warder Rk. II - 1
--- Callous Ferocity Rk. II - 2
--- Chameleon Strike - 73
--- Ellowind's Expansive Mind - 1
--- Empathic/Beastial Fury - 2
--- Focused Paragon of Spirit - 20
--- Frenzy of Spirit - 1
--- Frozen Venin Rk. II - 79
--- Gelid Claw - 295
--- Glacial Shock - 49
--- Group Bestial Alignment - 3
--- Hateful Guard - 2
--- Icy Fury - 5
--- Intensity of the Resolute - 1
--- Jorra's Mending Rk. II - 1
--- Knowledge of the Past III - 1
--- Kron's Maelstrom Rk. II - 84
--- Might of the Giants - 1
--- Myrmidon's Skill I - 2
--- Noira's Strike - 145
--- Paragon of Spirit - 3
--- Playing Possum - 1
--- Prismatic Ward IV - 1
--- Salve of Sevna Rk. II - 1
--- Sarsez' Bite Rk. II - 43
--- Second Spire of the Savage Lord - 8
--- Sha's Reprisal Rk. II - 28
--- Tiger Maw II - 410
--- Tuzil's Feralgia Rk. II - 47

Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

Here is MC again pulling the forrest and candyland (5800 dps night)
Combined: A rabid rabbit on 10/14/2011

Zorthaz - 1635
--- Attack of the Warders - 4
--- Bestial Alignment - 4
--- Bestial Bloodrage - 9
--- Bite of the Asp - 84
--- Bolstering Warder Rk. II - 2
--- Callous Ferocity Rk. II - 4
--- Chameleon Strike - 116
--- Covered by Vie - 2
--- Elixir of Clarity XV - 3
--- Ellowind's Expansive Mind - 1
--- Empathic/Beastial Fury - 2
--- Focused Paragon of Spirit - 34
--- Form of Endurance V - 1
--- Frozen Venin Rk. II - 81
--- Gelid Claw - 366
--- Glacial Shock - 102
--- Group Bestial Alignment - 8
--- Hateful Guard - 2
--- Hobble of Spirits - 3
--- Icy Fury - 7
--- Jorra's Mending Rk. II - 2
--- Knowledge of the Past III - 2
--- Kron's Maelstrom Rk. II - 110
--- Might of the Giants - 2
--- Myrmidon's Skill I - 1
--- Natural Invisibility - 1
--- Paragon of Spirit - 4
--- Playing Possum - 1
--- Prismatic Ward IV - 3
--- Protective Spirit Disc - 2
--- Salve of Sevna Rk. II - 3
--- Sarsez' Bite Rk. II - 63
--- Second Spire of the Savage Lord - 14
--- Sha's Reprisal Rk. II - 18
--- Third Spire of Elements Effect - 13
--- Tiger Maw II - 480
--- Tuzil's Feralgia Rk. II - 75
--- Vie faded - 6

Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

What are your thought on this data?
-Z-

Nusa · October 16, 2011, 07:11:29 AM

Personally, I prefer using the HoT BP click, where the proc goes on me rather than the pet (timer-linked, can't have both).

Quote from: Khauruk on October 16, 2011, 05:34:13 AM
I'm surprised you use Kron's Maelstrom so little compared to Venin, given the huge efficiency gain it gives (even when the doom portion doesn't go off, it's more efficient iirc).

Those numbers are right for using both full-bore. The recast on Kron's is 12 seconds while Venin is only 4.5 seconds. (He did use less of other stuff...notice how few poison and cold nukes there are.)

Of course, if you're losing the mana battle, you either have to back off on Venin or stop and med every now and then. The latter is often more efficient than actually conserving mana in group situations, especially when you have a large mana pool from good gear...the OOC timer is only 30 seconds, and OOC regen rate is very fast.

Nusa · October 16, 2011, 07:34:12 AM

Re: Zorthaz's lists....I'm not seeing any Shout at the Moon's, which either means you are throwing away mana over-using Tuzil's, or tossing out way fewer pets than I would use. 3 Shouts for every Tuzil is a pretty common ratio. Basically, anytime growl isn't flashing, I use Shout, if it's flashing or gone I use Tuzil.

Khauruk · October 16, 2011, 02:10:22 PM

I question what your bard was doing - w/ bard + sham, your sustained should be quite a bit higher. I question how often your sham is clicking epic too, for that matter. You've a bit of room to grow, as Nusa points out, but you're not doing bad at all.