Ok, time for a list to be made, I want any and all idea's you've had with improving out current spells,and future works, improvements like changing our single target haste into a group haste, those type of things. This is a anything goes type of thread, I will weed through here as its posted on and make a compiled list for everyone to see at the top
1) Gruop Fero ***
2) Gruop Haste
3) More Poi Base nukes***
4) single target Panther or Self/pet lower one say 175-225 dd ***
5)Self only DS? Good for soloing maybe
think *** are ones that need to be looked at the most
this is just my 2 CP but i think it would be nice
several (3-5) situational (meaning each has a different effect) MGBable spells or discs that could get either chained or stacked and would help raids.
some thoughts on a specifics
- make them only MGBable so they dont over power in grps?
- effects could be things like: endurance only regen (not tied to para) large AC boost for raid? over damage or overstat (beyond shammy stuff)? super over haste?...new effects no one has yet ex: raid wide de aggro that adds hate to your targeted player, meaning you focus raids hate into MT....or RT... etc (the effects listed are off the top of my head and just an example)
Bottom line I was thinking of is our class would become the raid utility class much as we are a grp utility class by the raid leader being able to pick and choose what to chain or stack depending on the fight. I really think this could be a cool role and make us needed on raids.
*Mob attack is finally increasing - I think an upgrade for our cripple line is due. Fast cast like newer slows, less than current enc/shammy cripples.
Enc 71 cripple, Fractured Conciousness
1: Decrease DEX by 106
2: Decrease AGI by 106
3: Decrease STR by 106
4: Decrease AC by 40
5: Decrease Dual Wield by 1%
Crippling Spasm, Shammy 66
1: Decrease DEX by 100
2: Decrease AGI by 100
3: Decrease STR by 100
4: Decrease AC by 39
Incapacitate, BST 56
2: Decrease AGI by 45 (L40) to 55 (L50)
3: Decrease STR by 45 (L40) to 55 (L50)
4: Decrease AC by 21 (L40) to 24 (L50)
Potential BST Cripple Upgrade lvl76
1: Decrease DEX by 80
2: Decrease AGI by 80
3: Decrease STR by 80
4: Decrease AC by 30
(Need to try and get Dex in there)
*Haste - Newer haste spell, Base Duration 35 minutes, no more than 5 second cast time. Increase ATK by 50. Group or single /shrug.
*Nukes -
Cold - give us a cold nuke around 2.8 -3k base, slight or no efficiency upgrade from Spiked Sleet
Poison - Upgrade to Empress 2.8-3k base, slight efficiency upgrade to Bite of the Empress
*DoTs -
Disease - See about getting this scrapped altogether, perhaps replace w/ Panther upgrade (below)
Poison - See about getting this changed to something along the lines of Nature's Blazing Wrath
(~3k nuke + 800/tick/3ticks dot). Perhaps 3k nuke with 500/tick for 3 ticks. At least
-20 resist adjustment to match Bite of the Empress.
*Growl of the Panther upgrade - Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 23/24/25% (rk. I-III).
Increase the HoT to 300, and 3000HP gained.
*Disciplines -
Defensive - I don't see us getting an upgrade to one of the best defensive discs in game w/ stupidly short reuse timer. Not worth asking for.
Offensive - Our dps is getting very respectable. So, I don't see us getting a sizeable dps disc gain. Whatever gain we do get will probably be at a high endurance cost (see monk issues in TSS beta). So, I'm not sure we should even try to get an upgrade to Empathic Fury. The best possibility would be a few % upgrade that's vendorable, so you don't have to kill to get people to do DoD missions to get your disc.
Rake - Upgrade time. Something making it about a ~60dps upgrade to current, not tied to weapons. Toss a bone to groupers who are getting repeatedly screwed on itemization. I see raid weapon ratios ruining any possibility of gettting an upgrade to Rake that's tied to weapon ratios.
Proposal 1: Beastial Rage. Same effect as Bestial Fury (Increase All Skills Dmg. Mod 100%, Min dmg 400%), for next 5 attacks, reuse 1 minute. Does not stack with our dps discs/work w/ Rake/Ragged Claws.
Proposal 2: Confusing Swipe Skill Attack (65), Hate Generated: -1000. This could also be tied into Rake upgrade - Rake is currently +400 hate, 3 x Skill Attack (65). Perhaps 3 x Skill Attack (195), -1000 Hate?
I don't see us getting more than one of any two possible upgrades.
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room for more additions on discs, spells, etc, once I do more research
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**********EDITED**********
1. Ferosity throw it out the window, prath already said it sucks and upgrades wouldnt really be a upgrade for it, ya its a sore subject. My suggestion is this new spell line! Aura of Ferosity, +20 to Combat Effects ( over cap ), Mana Flare ( granted this isnt same as enchy buff ) deals 200 damage to your target each time you proc, This imo would solve the best of both worlds and emimnate a buff we must keep casting over and over.
2. Paragon, This is second only to Fero I think for most of the beastlords, in its current form paragon adds +125 to mana I think, and 400hp per tick, instead of having it at a set number, I suggest it goes on a scale of what the cleric epic is on, a % base, adding 10% back to a person's mana and HP, thus making it a very viable and great upgrade for a needed AA which we are known for.
3. Pet Dps, our pet dps is by far the worst, falling behind necro's and mages since they added in procs to their pets. I suggest booting our pet dps by a meer 10%, but the pet is lacking when I use batm they our parse my pet most of the time which is a sad instance.
***********EDITED***********
4. Frenzy of spirit, add a new version of this aa, adding in overhaste for both the beastlord and pet, 5% overhaste, also causing special attack's ( IE rake or jagged claw ) to cause greatly increased damage ( 100% more ) for the next minute, wouldnt be the same but would be a great addition to our already crappy AA line.
5. A new Growl upgrade! (self buff ), Spirit of the Night, beastlord and his warder are filled with visions of past battles, causing them the chance do to 150 damage ( magic based ) proc, for the next 1 mintues 30 seconds ( note should stack with panter, and storm blade), also increasing damage by 30%, and adding 2000 hp to both the beastlord and his warder
6. a Cure all in group form, unlike rangers they arent a shaman hybrid , I think we should have the same spell but with a 5% increase and in group form, it would bring our utility back to what it once was
*** NOTE *** This one isnt likely gonna happen , but it will server as a great utility in group settings ****
***NEW***
7. NEW RAKE!!!! Infuses your body with the power of the dragon, causing you, and your warders next attack to do extra magical damage, and has a change to make your enemies to slightly forget some of their past aggression towards you. ( Warder having a 20% chance to do the magical attack )
8. Form of the Feral lord - Imbunes you with the likelyness of your warder for a prolonged period of time, greatly increase your movement speed, +15 regen, and +10% accuracy overcap, would last 30 mins at first rank, 45 / 60 mins, aa would cost 3/ 6/ 9
figured I should post some of my old idea's up here =D
List in no particular order
1) Group haste (whatever shams have now that they got 10 levels ago, can't remember the name off hand)
2) Add corruption resist to Ferocity, maybe let it over cap STA a little the way Sham focus line does?
3) Player cast slow that's 65% same as the old ones, but with resist mod like Steel Trap
4) Upgrade to Growl, something like 2000 hp and 25% dmg mod and 200 hp regen (This least important imo, it's a very useful spell now and I wouldn't' want an increase that cost 1000 mana to cast and still only lasted 1 minute)
5) One new cold nuke, one new poison nuke
6) Dots worth memming (or not if they plan for bsts to be instant DD I don't especially care for dotting ability, but I dislike getting spells I never use)
7) Add END regen to both Spiritual line and Paragon line.
8 ) Improved cures! Poison (12) seriously needs help and Disease (36) could use some tweeking. Wouldn't mind a curse cure but I can pass on that.
1. Toss fero out the window, it's not worth losing another spell for.
2. Group haste.
3. Stat cap breaking buffs to make them worth casting again.
4. Bite upgrade, love that spell.
5. New debuff? I never used it much myself because it did not seem worth the mana cost but with how the newer mobs are it could be useful again.
6. No new spells to "help" pet survivability, fix the fundamental way a pet works instead.
7. Make sure you beat them over the head some more over no new DoT's.
Seriously....why is everybody obsessed with Combat Effects??
Proc based dps has been my staple...seems like forever (as those weapons became available to me).
In my current content (entering TSS), Cogblaster is superior to tonfa for me in general play (except under disc). My dps was 'proc' enhanced when i was in Time (ED), GoD (SSB) and so on. At the time, they were the best weaponised dps tools that I had available and their performance is directly tied to my combat effects (currently 83). Well, thats why *I* value combat effects anyway.
As far as spells go, I would be in favour of most of the suggestions made thus far. In addition, we seem to be a hybrid without a unique self-buff/combo buff, and this would be a nice addition. Instead of an actual overcap combat effects modifier, how about a spell that mirrors the bard self buff from TBS, Jonathan's Mightful Caretaker?
Jonthan's Mightful Caretaker Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data
Slot Description
1: Increase Attack Speed by 70%
2: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 6%
4: Increase ATK by 16 (L71) to 17 (L75)
7: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 204%
8: Increase Proc Modifier by 102%
The slot 8 proc modifier (106% for the rank II) seems like a decent way to get combat effects like enhancements without going overcap on combat effects themselves.
Quote from: Kroe on August 05, 2007, 04:24:57 PM
Proc based dps has been my staple...seems like forever (as those weapons became available to me).
Should your "class defining" dps boosting buff affect only Beastlords, or should it affect real DPS classes?
DPS classes that get a benefit from CE/overcap CE:
Monk - nope - and they won't start using boomsticks if we get Fero like this.
Zerker - nope - The agro would be too much anyways.
Rogue - nope - Boomstick offhand = sadpants.
Other classes:
Warrior - yes. But warrior agro is rapidly going away from procs, and is relying upon weapon ratio and agro modifiers.
Ranger - no
Bard - rarely
Beastlord - 1/2 of raiders who have weapons from Demi/TSS (TBS has no boomsticks, Same DK, Anguish, nobody cares about Time, GoD))
Paladin - Nopers
Shadowknight - nada
Cleric - Yes...those few who melee w/ their boomsticks. Same goes for other casters. Doesn't affect raids anyways. Part time only during groups/gimp content.
CE would be a stupid choice for adding to Ferocity.
1. Ferocity - either revamp it to make it useful or drop the spell. Right now it is taking up a slot that would be better used by something different.
2. Cripple upgrade - lets get one please. It sounds like it will be good with the new expansion.
3. Haste - hasting a group with our current one sucks a lot. I don't care if our haste % increases but I would like to see either a group version or a duration increase so it is not the painful experience that it is now.
4. Continue both the poison and ice nuke spell lines. I'd like to see the poison nuke line extended down the levels some to at least 60.
5. Growl of the panther upgrade.
6. Buffing in general. In the past we got buffs well after shaman, but they were still used a fair amount at least in the casual crowd because fewer players were maxed on stats. In current EQ this has changed. We should always be behind shaman on buffs but I see no reason that we can't be improved from where we are currently.
7. Paragon, can this please be based on a % instead of a fixed amount of mana returned? That or endurance regen added (futile dream, yes I know).
8. I'd like to see a utility buff for the pet, doesn't stack with hobble or pet slow lines, that is a poison/ice debuff.
9. A pet defensive disc or a way to have it shield master upon demand.
10. Frenzy of spirit: this was one of our class aa way back in PoP. Can we ever get an upgrade to this beastlord-only aa?
Quote from: Shieara on August 05, 2007, 05:14:29 PM
7. Paragon, can this please be based on a % instead of a fixed amount of mana returned? That or endurance regen added (futile dream, yes I know).
8. I'd like to see a utility buff for the pet, doesn't stack with hobble or pet slow lines, that is a poison/ice debuff.
7 - won't happen. Dev's hate %age based upgrades that scale forever. This has been vetoed for 2 betas now, and won't happen now either. I think we need to look elsewhere (i.e. non-MGBable upgrade to Paragon)
8 - Ice might not be bad. There's huge debuffage out there for poison, which only impacts shammies (usually not dotting), necros, and now Beastlords. Ice is only debuffed by druids and the Malosinise/Malis buffs, but impacts druids, rangers, wiz, beastlords. I'll try to find some actual numbers, but that might be useful.
I just PMed Rashere again to see what their plans are regarding NPC AC stagnation and the degree of openness in the dev community to adding mod2s to Ferocity if the AC boost proves problematic/insufficient. Hopefully he'll reply tomorrow.
I'll post his reply here when/if I get one.
I would like to see an aa or spell that can call assistant from the wild. Basically like our BE but creatures that are not summoned.
Quote from: Khauruk on August 05, 2007, 05:05:27 PM
Should your "class defining" dps boosting buff affect only Beastlords, or should it affect real DPS classes?
Khauruk, maybe you should read what I posted again? I didn't say that I would prefer a proc enhancing effect on Ferocity (I voted to scrap it all together). The proc enhancing effect I would prefer on a self-buff, that we never seem to get.
You asked why people 'cared' about combat effects, and I posted why I did (and still do). As our double attack rate has increased, my 'benefit' gained from wielding a 'boomstick' has diminished and has favored weapon ratio.
Again 'class defining' is certainly something Fero has not been, and for some time. Who knows what the initial intent of the spell was meant to be? Something like ferine avatar and champion is strictly focused on damage yet savagery/ferocity has always been mixed, since inception. There has always been the defensive (well, I see resists as defensive) component to the spell - ie it was never *just* an offensive dps increaser.
Quote from: Kroe on August 06, 2007, 01:43:49 AM
Khauruk, maybe you should read what I posted again?
You asked why people 'cared' about combat effects
There has always been the defensive (well, I see resists as defensive) component to the spell
I'm sorry...I didn't notice the bit about self-buff, and I should have specified about CE as it would apply to ferocity. /bonks self. As far as Ferocity being a defensive buff as well, I have been sending PMs to developers to try and get some further development on that front as well....so yes, I am aware.
I disagree with the "no new DoT's" mantra.
In a kiter's game, this is our only version of sustained ranged DPS. Without dot's our soloability is right up there with rogues.
Our solo ability has gone down not due to getting crappy dots. It is due to that we tank like crap. As mobs DPS has increased and max hit increased our tanking has not kept pace. So we are relegated to killing the gimper mobs for lousy rewards.
Dots were only used by a select few for kiting and have never really been a core ability. TBH you can get some good results by nuke kiting, just like wizards and BATM.
So ditch dots, more poison nukes and a new ice nuke.
I would like to see a self rune, or self only ac buff that stacks with everything else in game. Do we even have a self only ac buff, other than the kunark tunic clicky? I'm still using that...so sad.
Upgrade to SE.
Definately a group haste a la talisman of celerity.
another pet/beast short-term damage modifying like the one I never got because of 69.4 :(
1- Ferocity, do something with it, be it making it useful, or pitching it out the window.
2- Pet Survivability / DPS in raid settings, the Focuses from raid level need to make the warder able to endure raid level encounters, be it some heavy Mitigation/Avoidance to AE ramp, or decent sized shielding, as melee damage is what destroys the pet more than spell effects.
3- SE- 13 mana/hp per tick with 1000hp items? compared to the 7/tick it was with 150-200hp items could use a big boost.
4- Paragon 400 hp / 140 mana per tick for 6-8 ticks, was 200 / 80 at inception. looking for a big boost here too to keep up with mudflation (see point #3)
5- Growl upgrade. Damage component is fine (+20% scales indefinitely) increased HoT (300-500) with an increased hp boost (2000-3000) or perhaps simply a duration increase (~6 minutes)
6- Debuffs, Cast Slow needs a larger Resist check (4 out of 5 anguish trash mobs say: "sorry beastlord, your slow doesn't work on me") Steeltrap Jaws, while interesting, is not reliable enough for me to consider using. Incapacitate is simply out of date, and needs upgrading.
7- Cures: my Clicky from PoFire is still my best cure spell, that ain't right.
8- Haste: Convenience mostly here, either group it, extend its duration or decrease it's cast time or better yet, all three!
9- Buffs: Focus should end up somewhere above the previous tier's shaman buffs, but below the current tier's buffs, Stat upgrades would be nice to have, as we haven't gotten new stat buffs since Planes.
10- Rake is in need of a DPS upgrade, simply put.
Things already discussed.
Melee Proc spells - I don't want them personally, i feel this would turn us into 'mini-shaman' and not stack with their procs (SoE loves to put similar lines for us into stacking conflicts with other spell lines), dumping these spells into the 'well it's nice, but only when a shaman isn't around' category.
DoTs, if they worked (i.e. weren't resisted 9/10 casts) i would use one or two, i used to do that while raiding Vex Thal back in the day. As they are now, they're near-useless and should be abandoned.
Frenzy of Spirit- i never really thought about the effect too much (tag FoS, hit BE, then tap BA when disc fades) but an upgrade to this with overcap haste% would be pretty nifty.
Quote from: hokarz on August 06, 2007, 09:08:02 AM
I would like to see a self rune, or self only ac buff that stacks with everything else in game. Do we even have a self only ac buff, other than the kunark tunic clicky? I'm still using that...so sad.
Upgrade to SE.
Definately a group haste a la talisman of celerity.
another pet/beast short-term damage modifying like the one I never got because of 69.4 :(
until brael and the dev's finish working on the change for AC that is duel out with SoF, a AC buff is likely not to happen, with our current soft cap, we get diminishing returns as it is past the 1900 ac mark
I am gonna start email dev's on this later today, a few things I am gonna hit on is pet survivabilty, pet dps, growl and rake upgrades, paragon scaling, haste, gonna try and push for less cast time / longer duration, a new cripple, new slow with a higher resist check, I am gonna suggest mod 2's of the owner be added to pets, but I doubt it will be looked into really, also see if we cant get some resist checks added into our dots, making them more viable to use.
I've got alot of stuff and a short amount of time to get it ready for when SoF beta rolls around, lets see if we cant get some if not all of this pushed through there.
Attack debuff added to a new cripple spell that stacked with shaman and druid debuffs would be nice and give us a debuff roll on raids.
Sorry but just wanted to make a quick post....these are all ideas I had in the past and had posted in the old ideas thread...so here we go....hope you can make sense out of all this.
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Bite of the Empress - this is a new line for Beasts. We are getting a Poison Nuke. it is 2494 damage but at a 758 mana cost. It is a .5 sec cast with a 30 sec refresh. I got crits of 4998 with a fellow Bst with DK Poison focus getting 7k crits. This is Nice IMO.
The above spell example and new line being introduced by TBS.. I had the same idea a few months ago but I forgot it and forgot to post it, also to tell the truth I wasn't too sure if the devs would be keen on us stealing SK poison nukes...but seems I was wrong.
Anyway the idea is simple, all of our current dots for poison and disease, should be poison and disease nukes, being .5 seconds to cast and 30 sec refresh. Damage probably needs to be modified and scaled in previous spells to be comparable to this spell in TBS. But that would definately be much nicer than having useless DOT spells.
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Quote from: Eflynn on December 09, 2006, 01:27:12 PM
- give beasties a spell (or spell line) so we can turn into our warders, more than just an illusion, like rangers, druids, and shammies .... give some atk or run speed maybe and double attack or damage mod
- never thought of the ability to send warders out like stalking probes ... but I like it!
- group haste and Sow are both long overdue (as well as IoS ... but at least we got a group Focus)
- warders NEED to have run speed factored into summon or just give then perma SoW
- new warder models are LONG overdue also, although they've been announced as coming down the line, they still aren't around. 1 thing changing the troll warder did was polarize those who liked the old model and those that didn't ..... maybe while putting new models in place they could give us a way off choosing between 2 or 3 different models - furthering the character customization, even if it's only different colors.
----end quote of Elfynn----
I agree with a majority of all the above suggestions...
I especially love the idea for illusions for beastlords, I had thought of that one myself a long time ago but never posted or talked about it, just wished it in my mind lol...
The idea of sending my pet to "search" for mobs and check out areas to pull and be like an eye of zomm type deal...damn ..never thought of it..and I like the idea very much that would be cool!
New pet models and being allowed to CHOOSE and even CHANGE your warder into IMHO ANY OF THE WARDERS that are available just like we can change our fur/face (vah shir along with all other races) would be super cool.
Another really cool idea would be if specific quests (that can be soloable for bsts only) could be to "collect" new warder graphics by "capturing" these new warders, that would be MAJOR COOL and something FUN for the class itself to do, and add the above customization of being able to pick your warder/change what your warder looks like, whenever the heck you want. That would definately make things DIFFERENT. A Vah Shir Beastlord with a wolf pet...or a Iksar Beastlord with a Bear pet ect...
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Aura of Spirit type of idea -
why don't we have a new AA ability line that is connected to our Paragon line. This brand new line called Wild Spirit of the Beast can give beastlords an innate ability to have our AoS/Purrfection give the raid the chance to be able to "critical heal" themselves with either mana or hp while they're in combat mode aka meleeing or casting spells on others/NPCs...make it be in three ranks, the first rank gives you a 5% chance of these crit heals for mana or hp being able to happen, the 2nd and 3rd ranks give an innate 1% gain, being a total of 7% chance for this to happen to the raid, ourselves when we solo, or groups. Of course this will only affect the Paragon line not other healing spells, and it will depend on beastlords using the paragon ability which will retain its 15min refresh timer, and MGB with its 1hour timer.
The way I'm thinking for it to work is like this, AEs are hitting the raid, MGB Heals are thrown, Beastlord throws MGB AOS with new innate ability Wild Spirit, group #1 is being healed normally by AoS with normal hp/mana return, all the sudden 1 person in group #1 crit heals themselves 2300 mana return with a nuke, once a person crit heals themselves for mana or hp perhaps have AoS stop healing that particular person(?) or let AoS continue to heal normally after the crit. Another example: person in group #5 crit heals themselves for 1000 hps. The minum and maximum mana/hp return can range from at least 100 mana/hp to 5k being the max amount of crit heal or mana(?). And of course this will happen rarely, but still theres a chance for it to occur.
Maybe this new type of line ability is the way to give us utility back to the raid without scaling Paragon line and by making this random to happen it wouldn't be considered overpowering. So what do you think? btw percentss, numbers ect can all be played around with - these are just made up examples i gave trying to explain my idea and to find the most decent way we can gain utility and have something that can be considered somewhat useful and interesting for the raid to use again.
Also new spell request -
Feral Cloak - Beastlord self only TIMED Invis - 3 second casting time, 30 second refresh - 200 mana (?) OR Make it an AA ability to buy for 9 AAs, and make it instant cast like Druid Camo invis.
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More ideas for beastlords....
Doesn't it seem weird that Shaman can turn into a Werewolf via AA and have it as a permanet illusion and beastlords cannot do that?
Well I think we should have an AA that turns us into a Werewolf like shammys, called Pact of the Wurine or Beast or Feral Pact(?), this AA will turn us into Light Grey Werewolves (light grey would be a different shade than the BE pet color, would be shades lighter, or maybe brown or reddish brown?) and have it improve our run speed, increase accuracy with hits, increase hps and mana slightly (as in like a self buff of additional 500hps/mana?) and increase our dps.
That would be cool and fun I think...and would look bad ass. Numbers for the increase in hp/mana, dps, accuracy ect. all can be played with, I was just coming up with this on the spot so gimme a break =p.
Also something I think we need as spell utility are the following:
Talisman of the Tribunal - it sucks that Shammys are only ones who can cast this and that it takes one spell slot, while beastlords are left behind casting two spells for diease and poison. Give it to us already geez it can't hurt to have it.
Group Haste - again beastlords are half shammys, you didn't give us any spells in the past to have us follow shammys when you should have, so now your gonna have to give us all previous old group haste spells, plus a brand new one that is current and decent to the shaman line for bsts please.
Old Haste called Celerity - for the love of all that is nature, PLEASE FIX THE SPELL to last longer duration according to level like it should be, we've been asking this forever.
Minohten Mending (all ranks) - needs an upgrade, this spell should be like rangers current spell Potamid Salve it should be a single target heal, and it should cure its target of all Poison/disease/curses.
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Those are all my old ideas and some ideas that others posted that I agreed with or would like to perhaps see for the fun factor ect.
Also I have a BRAND NEW IDEA for Beastlords and our aggro issues...I am not sure if it will work and it will require more testing..also I am not sure exactly if theres a program I could use to test this or if others would be willing to test this idea along with me...but I am in the high end raiding game (AG/FC, and soon Solteris) and I have been getting alot of aggro issues, mostly because of nuking, procs and my weapons...I'm not really sure what the problem is...none of my weapons have CS procs, and I have even reduced my nuking and I'm still high on aggro list, I'm so high on aggro list I beat our zerkers on raids (lol). I also assist quickly but not quicker than a tank/MT hehehe..I have to stop attacking sometimes because I have pulled off aggro for a second or two (as have others in my guild of other classes) during AG events, but the point is, Roar of Thunder isn't much help and we lack a way to reduce our aggro issues.
We could request for an AA skill to be created like Roar of Thunder but with a lower refresh timer like Feral Swipe maybe, or a spell type like rangers have called Jolt and Jolt Kick....but the idea that I have been testing lately is....a spell..from rangers called Nature's Viel.
The spell costs around 250 mana, lasts around almost 24 minutes, and its an aggro reducer/proc. I still am not entirely sure how it works (lol), but I talked to some of the zerkers in my guild and they told me how they wear that buff very often, along with rogues. So I have started to request it, and I think I have seen my aggro go down some but I'm not really sure...but this spell gave me the inspiration that perhaps that is what beastlords need. We need a self only aggro reducing proc type spell like Nature's Viel. We can call it Spirit of Nature or something...=p still haven't come up with a good name...
Ok so tell me what you think...thanks for listening as always...
Just a note but combat effects does not effect buff type proc rates just proc rates on weapons procs and aug procs
Also wanted to make a link to the previous discussion about the top ten that I had created a while ago.
Please just read it over again whenever you have time Humlaine for some reference and ideas.
Old (New) Top Ten List
http://forums.beastlords.org/index.php?topic=7401.0
I agree we really need a no drop invis. AA or what ever it is something.
A no drop invis would be great, but I haven't had huge issues with the current one. It actually works pretty well for me lol.
I think IoS could now be merged into our focus line. The spell portion is useless now with stat caps but if they ever remove them it will return some use to it and safe us from casting 2 buffs. They probably can review back and merge IoS with a previous focus version and allow the upgrade to those to filter up depending on where they put it. I am not totally sure I want to start asking for the wunshi specific line really, but a moderate knock off wouldn't hurt. We really don't even need the stat overcap portion since they should be removing said caps this next beta.
Group haste of our current haste percentage is long over due. Not to worried about increasing its percentage unless shaman and chanters get a good solid upgrade in that area.
Beastlords should be staying with rangers on cures like we do heals. Tss probably needs revisted and add a copy of their cures for beasts. Then allow for the upgrade in this next expansion.
Prism skin recourse needs to be put back on par with mages, by allowing 2 hits for us if it hasn't already.
Typical DPS upgrades.. Growl, rake, SF, FS, Ice nuke, Poison nuke.
Protective upgrade will be shiny, but to me not a pressing issue.
Beastial Alignment..I think scales so I don't see a huge reason to upgrade that yet....but might need revisited just in case.
I have no desire to see mammoth, panther, or any other mod type abilities stem from the shaman lines. We should have more unique things added in place.
Quote from: TabarQuell on August 06, 2007, 03:10:24 PM
Melee Proc spells - I don't want them personally, i feel this would turn us into 'mini-shaman' and not stack with their procs (SoE loves to put similar lines for us into stacking conflicts with other spell lines), dumping these spells into the 'well it's nice, but only when a shaman isn't around' category.
I think the proc most are talking about is the same kind that other hybrids have, and those do stack with panther. I have a feeling they never gave us a self proc like other hybrids since they gave us procs for pet, but I would still like to have one =)
Quote from: Mewzee on August 07, 2007, 05:48:46 AM
Bite of the Empress - this is a new line for Beasts. We are getting a Poison Nuke. it is 2494 damage but at a 758 mana cost. It is a .5 sec cast with a 30 sec refresh. I got crits of 4998 with a fellow Bst with DK Poison focus getting 7k crits. This is Nice IMO.
The above spell example and new line being introduced by TBS.. I had the same idea a few months ago but I forgot it and forgot to post it, also to tell the truth I wasn't too sure if the devs would be keen on us stealing SK poison nukes...but seems I was wrong.
Bite is not us taking the SK nukes, our nuke is basically a smaller version of Sting of the Queen, except Sting is 12 sec refresh ours is 30 sec.
the spell set up for SoF is already picked by SoE, that being sad, its not unlikely that we can get somethings changed or even removed from the said spell list. We need as many people do be in beta as possible to give feedback to the devs. Without good feedback its gonna be hard for them to fix and adjust our spell list from what it normally is
Judging by a post on the sony boards... beta signup has already come and gone?
Post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=116541
No....public beta has not begun.
How about AAs that decreases the reuse timer on beastial alignment.
Would also like to see us get an AA that looks like the shammy werewolf form but gives us increased DPS (increase melee skill or better proc rates) at the cost of generating more aggro then normal.
Or maybe even an offensive disc that isnt on the same timer as Empathic Fury.
I too would like to see endurance regen added to paragon. Would give raiders a purpose as well as help in groups and soloing.
Spells that I want to see given to Bsts that should have been given YEARS AGO!
Time to play catch up in the spells deparment!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fury
Rage
Voice of the Berserker (not sure about this one)
Shifting Shield
Guardian
Shroud of the Spirits
Levitation
Spirit of Bi'Li
Tiny Terror
Quickness
Talisman of the Feral (new group 50% haste)
Improved Invisibility
Spirit Veil
Talisman of the Tribunal
Spirit of the Puma
Cripple
Blood of Nadox
Disinfecting Aura
Cure Corruption
Chant of the Napaea
Feral Salve - (renamed version of Potamied Salve from rangers)
more to follow....
AA Abilitiy Ideas/Existing that should be given or improved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Protective Spirit disc NEW upgrade
Beastial Frenzy another upgrade
Rake another upgrade
Feral Swipe another upgrade
Flying Kick NEW upgrade or Round Kick NEW upgrade
New CLASS DEFINING Ideas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Give Beastlords new pets to summon, a new swarm pet, with different graphic, a different animal(s), give them each special abilities and skills. OR Make these be new pets period, like our warders that we can control with /pet hold and the rest of the pet commands/AAs. All Pet AAs, for pet dps, heals ect will affect this new pet that can be controled like our warder, OR if swarm only, then all pet dps AAs will affect it as normal werewolf pets do now, also pet focus effects affect these in hp/hit/power ect like normal as well.
Examples for new Swarm animals or Warders to control
Spirit of the Scale, summons a Python snake or Black mamba snake, hits are bites, special abilties, poison DD damage for 1500, special skill can kick the enemy. =P Can flurry, enrage.
Roar of the Lion, summons a Lion, hits are bites, bash, special ability Mual, has a chance to decrease strg/dex/agi , plus consits of a triple attack. Can flurry, enrage.
Spirit of the Grizzly, summons a Grizzly bear (postorms graphic), hits are bites,bash, special ability Bear Hug, can crush your enemy for 1800 dmg and cripple them making them weaker against magical attacks. Can flurry, enrage.
Pride of the Puma, summons a puma (DON graphic, color yellow), hits are bites, bash, special ability Tearing Gash, can make your enemy bleed for 1400 dmg (dot) and slow their movement speed, making them weaker to melee attacks. Can flurry, enrage.
Spirit of The Great Tiger, summons a white bengal tiger (new DON white tiger graphic), hits are bites, bash, special ability, Roar of the Tiger, can make your enemies be stunned and hit for 1000 dmg (AE Stun 0.0 or 5.0?) for a short time. Can flurry, enrage.
Edit: the spell list is in progress, I am going to update it with every single shammy spell that we should have gotten in later levels that are decent upgrades, utility+convience upgrades, and making up new spells or renaming them.
My thoughts on Mewzee's spell/upgrade suggestions, personal preference anywho.
Fury
Rage
Voice of the Berserker (not sure about this one)
-Yes, Why not? it's a disused shaman line that would fit nicely.
Shifting Shield
Guardian
Shroud of the Spirits
-Yes, AC booster spells would be nice to have once again, even though we already have shifting shield :-D
Levitation
Spirit of Bi'Li
Tiny Terror
Quickness
Talisman of the Feral (new group 50% haste)
Improved Invisibility
Spirit Veil
-Yes, The Little things that make Life easier, if only if only...
Talisman of the Tribunal
-Yes, Combined Resist buff 4tw.
Spirit of the Puma
-No-ish, This... i don't know about, but then i'm not hip on being a 'proc buff bitch'
Cripple
-Upgrade! Yes please.
Blood of Nadox
Disinfecting Aura
-Yes. Cures, we used to be good.. but well... ~_~
Cure Corruption
Chant of the Napaea
-No. Leave corruption cures to the priests... for now.
Feral Salve - (renamed version of Potamied Salve from rangers)
-Yes, but salve is such a... bleh, word to use for beasts... i like "Feralist's Mending" myself ;p
Protective Spirit disc NEW upgrade - Meh, not much to be done, maybe add a few 'block' charges?
Beastial Frenzy another upgrade - Some upgrade would be nice... 99% haste isn't what it used to be :-P
Rake another upgrade - or at least, ya know... an ability that won't be swiped by monks and cranked to hell.
Feral Swipe another upgrade - Even Stock will work, more dps is some good stuff.
Flying Kick NEW upgrade or Round Kick NEW upgrade - I do want *something* from monks other than leather, 'kick' or h2h proficiency.
New pets are intriguing to me... Being the lord of beasts (plural) and only really having mastery over one is kinda silly. I Know it would take revamping the pet system to do this, so it's about time we had a pet overhaul.
Quote from: TabarQuell on August 10, 2007, 02:29:24 PM
I do want *something* from monks other than leather, 'kick' or h2h proficiency.
I do too...mitigation table plskkthx! :)
These are just my thoughts. I see alot of us wanting the werewolf form from shammys (that we should have got from shammys).
Make this illusion one of our very own. Some type of creature that shows the weapons. A Beast if u will.
So here are a few ideas for it. If it happens.
1. Have us absorb our pets (meaning no pet out) where we increase our dps. This due to the fact SOE is determend to get rid of pets while raiding.
2. almost same as 1. Give the illusion an increase to dps threw acc or % or whatever they feel is appropriate, but an increase non the less.
3. Make it with defensive properties. OMG we might just tank again.
4. Mix of the above a bit. Give it an agro reducer. this would fill a great need with our class and not be too overpowering.
5. My favorite. give it more dps and defensive. I miss being able to tank.
Just my thoughts but any 1 of these would greatly help our class out and mabye put the Beast back in beastlord.
1) I'm almost positive Dev's will not allow us to "absorb" our pets, because that means the other two primary pet classes need to as well. That also nullifies Growl and Empathetic Fury from our list of spells, so they would need to make new forms of said spells, and that would knock out our new option for a DPS disc.
2) There is already an illusion item from Solteris that turns us into a werewolf. While I realize not everyone can raid this content, the shaman illusion is primarily used for the defense portion - it increases their avoidance and/or dodge rate. If we were to get some type of illusion, I imagine it would only be defensive in nature, just like the shamans illusion.
3) See #2
4) Personally I think they should just retune the Roar of Thunder line. 500 Damage every 30 seconds, -500 hate. Tie it to endurance or something. That alone could probably solve a lot of problems related to agro.
5) We can still tank, you just have to have the gear for it. You can't expect to instantly be able to tank Ashengate or something as soon as TSS is launched.
My thoughts:
1) Ferocity has the potential to be our biggest raid utility tool. Paragon follows shortly behind, but Ferocity is the one that we can mantain on people. Give it a proc. 200 Damage, 400 proc rate. It would be like Panther from a Shaman, whilst being something that is desireable by the melee classes.
2) Paragon needs to have the mana portion increased. That was it's main utility and still is today. 400HP per tic doesn't do squat for a raid where everyone is over 20k HP. It's the mana that's used. I would not mind seeing a) an alternate line, or b) a revamp of the line to make it a mana-only regen buff. I've read that the only reason it hasn't increased so much is because of the HP regen value it gives which is closely watched by developers, so if the HP portion is dropped it is possible that it could open it up to a bigger (read: hopefully large) mana boost, which is what the primary function is.
3) Spells: Currently I wouldn't mind some form of self corruption curing, but other than that I'm rather happy with our spell lineup at the moment (save ferocity and paragon!).
I'm 100% positive that SoE won't do the whole absorb pet thing since time and again they have stated that they want pet classes to have to work to keep your pet alive. Absorbing would just breed complacency in people.
Would like a debuff but not overly fussed, would be good in group situations only unless it was alterred slightly from the shaman line. However this would also cause us more agro. If we persist in the request for debuffs then why not also request some form of FD / Fade ability from our other parent class.
Would like to see a major overhaul of Paragon, last time I wasted MGB on it was we first started learning Lethar 2 and used it to help us through the AE's. I understand that they're not overly keen on making it % based, but would be happy to forgo the hp portion for mana.
Heal like rangers with a small cure included would be nice.
New focus with small overstat increase.
Other than a few fun spells I don't care too much about much other stuff.
Ok, this could be out there, but how about a new spell line that can be used in grp and in raid situations.
Mauda's Protection- Puts a protective guard on your target for 30 minutes. When your target is attacked, a feral beast spawns and attacks and takes aggro for 2 minutes or until the feral beast is killed.
This could end up too overpowering, but i think it could help out in raids, put like a 1k mana price or higher on it. Perhaps make the spell longer to recooperate after every cast, aka, 5 second recast, 25 second recast, 1 min recast and have the spell reset itself every hour or a ridiculously long recast timer.
New spell line for pets.
Wikaq's Crippling- Imbues your warder with rage. Proc: Wikaq's cripple. Decreases your targets attack, AC, hitpoints and mana by 400 for 1 minute. while leaving your target frightened.
Give the pets a debuff. Yes, I know, it would probably turn out like the slow spell, but this spell would need to stay on full duration. Can be cast multiple times but does NOT stack. And will not overwrite but stack with shammy and enchanters debuffs.
--- Better Rake, perhaps even upgrade it to 5 atks instead of 3 with 45 second delay.
---An upgraded poison DD, granted if this does take away any new dots, so be it. Personally I still use dots from time to time in kiting grps, but the dots r too mana consuming.
---Ferocity needs to either become an Aura or get some sort of add ons to become useful again, grp ferocity and single ferocity would be nice if they don't want us to have an Aura.
---An Upgraded Cripple, i use to use that all the time, but now its completely worthless.
---Panther upgrade, increase duration a bit and dmg %.
---Upgraded Cure, we need to have move useful cures, like to cure malo.
---And the obvious upgrades to SE, Vim, and Focus, but plz let the focus raise stat caps. Also, for Vim, if it cant stack with Brells or ranger buff, plz let it go away if either is better, if not, how about stacking them together.
Well, this is all I have for spells, now for defense mitigation and AAs.......
I was looking on Lucy for bst spell info for some of our older spells and I happened to notice this: "Pet haste group recourse X mins" Now this is a GREAT idea imo, and I hope it goes live with some tweeking.
not to be too much of a devil's advocate, but wouldn't summarizing the compiled suggestions of at least 2 other threads related directly to AA, and spells for the new expansions be less time/thread consuming? I mean summarize what has already been suggested in this thread then ask for additional input?
the post count would get to high and would take me countless hours trying to sort through all the information, so its a lot easier on myself to do it this way
I concur with the following
1. Ferocity for group and raids
2. New unique pets.
3. more shaman or shamanlike spells
4. more monk-like discs
In addition, Hell, why can't we have 2 pets? We are beastlords so we should be the ultimate pet class right??? Just an I wish opinion really.
Quote from: Taeweyen on August 17, 2007, 02:41:49 PM
In addition, Hell, why can't we have 2 pets? We are beastlords so we should be the ultimate pet class right??? Just an I wish opinion really.
Two warders would solve the dps problem but we can't keep one alive now how are we suppose to keep two alive? Also, a bunch of our spells auto target the pet and that would cause problems.
It would be much better to just have one "fixed" pet, not the neutered one we have now.
Sklak's Top 7 requirements for SoF to be a success:
1) Continue increases in double attack (both AA's & skill)
2) Roar of Thunder upgrade (faster re-use). Instead of pushing for cripple spell (or in addition to cripple) would request another 3 ranks of Roar of Thunder cast-time reduction (to bring to 3 min recast, so that 3 high-AA beasts on raid can keep a boss perma-Roar debuffed). At 3 min recast roar of thunder is still very little dps per AA (<20 dps, for a ton of aa's), but is a solid debuff that stacks with cripple lines. Also gives us a more frequent deaggro option, which will be a problem if we get:
3) Upgrade to Bite of the Empress (and not on a shared timer). 2 independent poison DD nukes for the win. Though I will run out of spell gems :|, and aggro will be a problem (see #2)
4) Review mitigation returns (over AC softcap), Beastlord AC returns over softcap should be improved. We're getting double-penalized on AC. We get half the AC on armor drops vs. tank classes, which would be fine for balance, except that point-for-point this AC actually provides a benefit of only ~30% of what it is worth to a warrior. I'd like to think we should be balanced as more than 15% of a tank...
5) Pet survivability - a couple very simple suggestions would help a lot:
a) Upgraded pet-proc to trigger a 2-hit rune instead of current 1 hit.
b) 50% faster cast on pet rune (3 second base cast, not 6)
(and see #6)
6) Growl of the Panther upgrade. Don't want this to become an abandoned spell. With the widely available mammoth strength buff, this has become a much smaller upgrade. Suggested update for rk 1/2/3 would be 24/25/26% damage multipler, ~25% more HP & HoT than Panther(those are as a minimum, as we've had 10 levels of upgrade since Panther, could argue for even larger % boost than standard 25%).
7) Group 50% haste still would be useful (30 min base duration, focusable to 45+ mins)
I see your point humlaine, just thought I'd point that possibility out. I agree wholeheartedly that we need more raid utility. I also think they should have continued growl and perhaps made it retroactive for lower level bsts. Our pets need more longevity of some form or another. Be it straight more potent pets, or perhaps a few ranks of pet defensive aa's. a more powerful set of pet defensive/offensive discs would be nice too.
Quote from: Taeweyen on August 17, 2007, 02:41:49 PM
In addition, Hell, why can't we have 2 pets? We are beastlords so we should be the ultimate pet class right??? Just an I wish opinion really.
why would we want 2 pets when we can't even keep the one we have alive
my suggestions:
(1) Make Taste of blood do *something useful* Increase the duration of the proc to like 30 minutes and the modifier slightly, or increase it to maybe a minute but make the effect increase minimum damage modifier 1000% (which would still only be an increase of maybe 10 dps)
(2) Animals that are friendly to druids and rangers also should be friendly to beastlords (applies to TSS)
(3) mitigation both under and over the cap improvements should be a priority imo
(4) our (poison/disease/curse/corruption) cures should be better than they currently are (in particular, they should always be better than rangers' cures. just look at the levels on every cure both classes have ever gotten)
(5) pet survivability obviously -- in particular, sharing benefits of gear/aas with pets in some way so they mitigate like their owner.
are 20k+ warriors still concerned that our 10k buffed ZERO mitigation pets are a danger to their use in groups?
Quote from: hakaaba on August 19, 2007, 01:04:53 AM
(are 20k+ warriors still concerned that our 10k buffed ZERO mitigation pets are a danger to their use in groups?
Far as I can tell it is the lvl75's with no aa's and MM gear that are worried about being out tanked by a pet.
Quote(1) Make Taste of blood do *something useful* Increase the duration of the proc to like 30 minutes and the modifier slightly, or increase it to maybe a minute but make the effect increase minimum damage modifier 1000% (which would still only be an increase of maybe 10 dps)
30 min would be broken. 5-10 min would be more in line. A nice addition to Taste of Blood would be to add something like cleric midigation buff to it.
30 minutes would be broken in what way? The way the buff currently is, the effective dps gain is nearly 0. 30 minutes of neligible dps gain is certainly not overpowered, though arguably not a whole lot better than 30 seconds of it
Growl not to target pet would be in my top 10, and VERY easy to fix. (Just like Epic doesn't need pet target)
30 minutes would be broken because it would become just a buff instead of a benifit from the pet getting a kill shot.
Thought of a suggestion for Fero upgrade... Make it act as a recourse effect on mobs were attacking in the form of a proc. Have the proc be a debuff 25ish atk and 10 resists or whatever is thought to be acceptable.
My first thought on this was to have it stack multiple times (maybe 3 to 5) on the mob so having Fero on multiple raid/group members would help debuff the mob quicker without one us getting all the agro from it. This would make the spell used more and be an upgrade to incapacitate that we needed.
Might as well put a stamina debuff on it also while at it so it matches what it gives us by what it takes away from the mob.
Zarkin
Ok, this is a lil out of the blue, but i got to thinking. How about giving bstlords the ability to call people, like shammies can? I know it sounds far fetched but in the story line of everquest or at least going through the epic 1.5 -2.0, we call on spirits and become one with the spirits. Why not have an AA that will call a persons spirit? i know this is stepping on shammies and druids (druids get call right?) toes but hey, it would be useful and surprisingly yes i have been in grps where i do survive and whole grp is wiped.
I wouldnt even care if the AA cost 15 or more AAs, it will become very useful i think.
I would like to see end regen added to PoS, we benifit the casters with the hps and the mana. Seems unfair that dps & tanks only get the hp regen..
A cure for coruption that was self/pet only would be so nice, even if I had to cast it 3 times. We'd have to be able to keep the pet alive on raids for this to be useful, but when the rest of the grp is dead and I have no curer, I know Im toast. Would be nice if I could at least take care of myself and Shep.
Haste..I could care less if it got a better %, I would just like to be able to do some damage to a few mobs before I have to start cycling grp members to recast it again. So, shorten the cast time or lengthen the duration or make it a grp spell..something plz!
I would love to be able to have a timed invis.
The looking like the warder thing is a nice idea. Rangers and druids can be wolves..shamans can be werwolves or bears...seems only fair that we get to look like our warder (for more than a few seconds). Some benifit would be nice too, not just an illusion for illusions sake..
And the warder as an eye for scouting and/or pulling is a good idea.
Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head..
Looks like we r gonna see a pet proc haste for grp......who wants to guess it will be broke just like steeltrap jaws is?. oh and the newer spells r on alla as previous names, oh and an upgraded rake at least, hopefully it will be decent for the lvl need for it.