The Beastlords' Den

in PoTime there's a h2h weapon dropped that is shared for monks and beastlords.

Now, on the other hand, the other classes have their own only weapon uniqueness. WHY has it we have to share a weapon with monks? I am sure they're aggrovated as well and would want a monk only something. Paladins and SK's even got their own weapon and none of them are sharable unlike what i've seen in the volume of drops in Velious/Luclin.

I'm wondering if it's even possible to have bst ONLY h2h? leave shinai of the ancient for the monk since it looks monkish weapon, perhaps a unique claw looks h2h for us?

In GoD, there's several class only weapon that are dropping, say Rangers getting bunch of those 1hs in Ikkz trials? ;) hehe, I havent seen a single bst only weapon yet. :( (bugged?) Hell, there's even BER only 2hs of a 92dmg/38 dly out there, and still havent seen any bst only weapon out there. :(

Anyways, any possibilities that the SoE team would look it up and remove bst tag off of shinai and add in a new claw h2h for bst only? Anything they can look into?

I am getting tired of monks whining that bst get shinai or bst get mad that a monk get the shinai somewhere on the board. Our guild have only gotten 1 shinai out of 6 VZ kills so far and it went to a monk, I'm hoping it'll go to one of our beastlords if the next one drop, if ever. Unless they say it's ok to add bst only h2h on one of those tier 4/5 bosses in Time.

Anyways, Anyone feels we should have our own, non sharable weapon? Sure some may have mnk/bst, but something unique, should have our own.

I think both beasts and monks should have thier own weapons from time. As for god a monk only weapon already surfaced and I'll be extremely pissed if there is not a beast only weapon in god.

I think that is a great idea, and I especially like that it would be a H2H like a claw..  perhaps there is something in GoD that we just haven't found yet.

I personally hate seeing stuff rot first and foremost.  I still remember tolan's swords dropping way too often off vulak back in the day.  Also, the monk/bst weapons already have beastlords figured in.  They come with wisdom and mana.  They already have great ratios, etc.  I guess I just don't see what would be "different" except maybe the graphic and the fact it's beastlord only.  I don't think we'd see beastlords getting a better ratio than monks.  I'm not againist it, but I don't see much to gain from it and I see the potential for some downside.  There are some beastlord only weapons already, but not many.  I think you'd see some rot, you'd see a bigger drop table by having both mnk and bst weapons on there and you'd likely see some people getting upset that monk weapon had a slightly better ratio or whatever.  Not hardcore againist though *shrugs*.

Well first off we wouldn't have to deal with monks when deciding loot. second, we wouldn't have to listen to the "it's better for monk!"  garbage anymore. Third, i've watched the last 5 hopebringers go to alts, if paladins and shadowknights get their own weapon then there is absolutely no reason to not give us one.

I think ALL classes should have a unique weapon from Time.

Murkk-  The last example is exactly what my main problem is.  The rotting and gear going to alts when there's stuff on the drop table others would really like still.  Also to the first point you would then have an extra item on the drop tables.  Sure when the beastlord weapon dropped you'd know it was going to a beastlord, but everytime the monk weapon showed up you'd have no chance of a beastlord getting it.  The "well it's better for monk" thing is just silly talk to be honest.   Even guilds that do officer based awards always do "what's best".  DKP, merit, etc systems take care of the loot.  I kinda like the idea of class specific weapons, but I think all the rots on pal/sk stuff I've seen and the fact that I don't see how much different the weapon would be now verse what mnk/bst ones currently are throws me.  If mnk/bst got seperate weapons I wouldn't be surprised if mnk was a bit "better" in terms of hps or maybe atk or possibly even marginally in dmg/del.  I think that would put some people up in arms.  *shrugs* who knows what SoE will do.  I do like the idea, but just have a couple worries I guess.

tastian makes good points about the time loot, but based on the existence of a monk-only god weapon i think it's hard to argue we don't deserve one there at least.

Actually I agree with you pretty much 100% tastian. Rotting sucks. But aslong as im seeing hopebringers and 10 of those damn ranger weapons from ikkinz every week, I want my own weapon. You can't apply the "rotting loot sucks" rule for only 1 class and none of the others. Aslong as the other classes are getting their own weapons there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't.

The only way around this that I know of is to do weapons like they did elemental armor molds/patterns.

oh and I couldn't care less if the mnk weapon was better. Aslong as I get my own unique weapon, that is balanced for me and not them, I don't care what their weapon is.

We did have our own weapon in Luclin expansion, from Ssra somewhere.
Monks whined so hardcore about it that it was changed to MNK/BST and promptly given to all the monks before the beastlords.

I can see it happening again, especially if the BST weapon is from one of the later zones and comes out ahead of the MNK weap in even 1 stat.

Monks are generally whiners anyhow.  Go take a look at their boards.

Anyhow, I think a BST only weapon would be in line.  If every class is getting one stay in line with it.  Not sure how this will affect anything, but I agree.  :)

The other classes always fight this because they complain that they will start rotting very fast and take up a slot in the drop table. I can see their point however these are usually the same folks that award all the H2H to the monks and the lesser 1hb to the Beastlords. /sigh

I like the beastlord only weapon in LDON, thats a piercer. Knowing how things are our weapon would be 1hb, piercing or 2hb.

QuoteWe did have our own weapon in Luclin expansion, from Ssra somewhere.
Monks whined so hardcore about it that it was changed to MNK/BST and promptly given to all the monks before the beastlords.  

Not true it still exists and is called the Savage Lord's Pitchatka and still beastlord only and drops off Arch Lich.

Im betting 1hs, Uka.... And Sony saying: Whoops! Well fix it! Honest.... Eventually....  :roll:

Quote from: mrowrr

QuoteWe did have our own weapon in Luclin expansion, from Ssra somewhere.
Monks whined so hardcore about it that it was changed to MNK/BST and promptly given to all the monks before the beastlords.  

Not true it still exists and is called the Savage Lord's Pitchatka and still beastlord only and drops off Arch Lich.

Actually, it is true.  :P

Part of the Cursed cycle used to drop Savage Lord's...Eitchka or something.  It was a BST only offhand.  Details are sketchy in my memory, but I remember there being a BST only wep off it very briefly and it was either changed to the Cursed Fangs or Savage Lord's Knuckledusters...something to that effect.

As for PoTime BST only...no.  Once a guild gets to Time and clears it 4 or 5 times, it's farm status.  All things being equal, anyone that wants a wep from Time will usually acquire it given a long enough period.

I imagine there might be one in GoD that's not found yet, but I don't really worry about it.  Generally there aren't enough BSTs in high end guilds to justify a class only weapon.  As someone said before, just look at Hopebringers rotting like mad.

This entire problem is a show of lazy Quality Assurance on SOE's part. Giving any item "all/all" shows a lack of thought and laziness.

"all/all" causes more problems. Items should be class specific and drop tables should be expanded somewhat to accomidate this.

Sure you are going to get items rotting eventually, but at least there is little contention between friends for loot.

Rather then dropping 2 items expand the table to 5-6 items and have them class specific.

TAAA-DAAA! I should be a Developer! --heeh

Quote from: MahesGenerally there aren't enough BSTs in high end guilds to justify a class only weapon.  As someone said before, just look at Hopebringers rotting like mad.

How are you guys doing on bards?  I don't know about you, but we have more active bst than bards, and there are quite a few bard-only items in the eplanes alone.

at every raid level from ToV to GoD+ there shouldn't be class specific weapons on mobs.  they should use coupons instead.  for example, Time god's should drop "Time Weapon Coupons" that are turned into a NPC who awards you with your classes specific weapon and Ssra mobs should drop "ssra weapon coupons" that do the same.  That way nothing ever rots until every one has a weapon from that level of raiding.  Every mob that can drop a class specific weapon gets a coupon on his loot list in his place so weapons drop at the same frequency, just none of them ever rot until you've farmed well past your prime and should move on.

Actually, we're hurting on a few classes.  Active-wise, two BSTs, 1 Pally, 1 SK, maybe 2 Bards, 2 Mages, 2 Necros.

Lots of class-only rots.

Quote from: Mahes

Quote from: mrowrr

QuoteWe did have our own weapon in Luclin expansion, from Ssra somewhere.
Monks whined so hardcore about it that it was changed to MNK/BST and promptly given to all the monks before the beastlords.  

Not true it still exists and is called the Savage Lord's Pitchatka and still beastlord only and drops off Arch Lich.

Actually, it is true.  :P

Part of the Cursed cycle used to drop Savage Lord's...Eitchka or something.  It was a BST only offhand.  Details are sketchy in my memory, but I remember there being a BST only wep off it very briefly and it was either changed to the Cursed Fangs or Savage Lord's Knuckledusters...something to that effect.

As for PoTime BST only...no.  Once a guild gets to Time and clears it 4 or 5 times, it's farm status.  All things being equal, anyone that wants a wep from Time will usually acquire it given a long enough period.

I imagine there might be one in GoD that's not found yet, but I don't really worry about it.  Generally there aren't enough BSTs in high end guilds to justify a class only weapon.  As someone said before, just look at Hopebringers rotting like mad.

IIRC the Savage Lord's Eitchatka was replaced by the Savage Lord's Knuckle Dusters, which was good if you consider the old one was 13/16 and the newer weapon is 17/19. I've seen the Pitchatka drop once (I haven't done AL very much) and beastlords with worse weapons let it rot. Go go DKP system.

It would be nice if they'd just have Time-imbued Weapon Molds.  Like the armor -- go take it to an NPC and get your own class-specific weapon.

Only downside is that people woudl farm forever and not move on.  Catch 22.

QuoteAnyways, any possibilities that the SoE team would look it up and remove bst tag off of shinai and add in a new claw h2h for bst only? Anything they can look into?

I would personally hate this idea, i love my Shinai and its look and i really don't like the claw graphics, and considering that my guild very rarely plans on going back to PoTime, it would really suck to have to go back to get another weapon.

Weapon sharing with monks is fine in time since there are only 2 weapons we can share with them, SoA and SoT. Since its only mnk/bst that can actually use h2h when compared to the multitude of other classes that can use slashers its alright that 99% of all h2h are shareable between the classes because there still isn't as much competition as with the other classes.

QuoteIn GoD ... I havent seen a single bst only weapon yet.

Operative word being yet, i expect a bst only weapon to be discovered with comparably if not better ratio then the monk only 1 hander already found. The longer we go without seeing one most likely will mean better stats because its off bigger harder mobs so im in no big hurry to see it yet.

Now, if your guild is giving the weapons to the monks over the beasts then that is a problem with your guild you need to work out with the officers. If its a DKP system then they earned the right to loot it and there is nothing you can do but save up some more or raid some more in hopes of getting the next one.

Quote
Rhaynne says 'My leader is Urim.'

oh.. you are so dead when she sees this if she hasn't already

I would have to agree with that you said though Urim.  The last thing that I like to see is rotting weapons because you have seen too many of them and only one class can use it (Ranger time and GoD weapons are a huge example in my guild).  

Really, if you use a dkp system and someone lets it rot instead of upgrading from a really shitty ass weapon, then seriously I would look at finding another person to take their place.  I'm not talking all types of armor, but it does no good in letting someone with pre-ssra weapons pass on a Puresteel Wraps because they expect to be getting SoA and say ED from time within the next six months.  You don't do anything but hurt your guild with your total lack of dps.  

Guess that's what I really like about my guild.  If someone really needs an upgrade, for the most part most people will back off on bidding.  Same should be true for monks, letting the beastlords get the h2h weapons, but the beastlords letting the monks get priority on the 1hb or 2hb items.  Course, this is just my opinion.

Quoteoh.. you are so dead when she sees this if she hasn't already

Thats what i thought too, but im pretty sure she's seen it considering shes the sig nerfer ... err moderator.

Gotta agree its a bit late to change PoTime,
aside from the ratio and look the ranger GoD weapons are not too inspiring hm

I like the idea of coupons and stuff.  The ornate molds and velious armor quests were kinda neat.  However, I think bst/mnk weapons are very similar and will always be very similiar.  That's the point I guess I keep coming back to.  Bards can certainly have different weapons than rangers or rogues or other 1hs type weapons.  Paladins/SK's have different 1h's than others and even 2h should/do vary from war/ber in several cases.  Now look at most monk/bst weapons.  What exactly would we make the beast only equivilant?  It's already got mana, usually wisdom.  The dmg/del has to be about the same as the monk counterpart and I like identical personlly hehe.  Now we can talk about different graphic, but really what are the changes we'd see in the weapons stats?  It's neat, I'd like to see it, but I hate the rot, I don't see it changing much except the graphic and overall SoE has messed up so many trivial things of late I don't really want them to try their hand at "balancing" monk verse beastlord weapons.

I think one of the largest drawbacks with BST/MNK weapons is that they are more often then not tuned for monks skills/AAs/etc. I mean even if we got a BST only 1hb it could be tuned so that we could use it regardless of skill cap. As it stands now 99% of us uses a H2H weapon over a 1hb anytime of the day beacause of the higher cap. Thats also one of the reasons that guilds that use some kind of award system give these kind of weapons to monks first (well, could be ol' plain ignorance also :P ).

Look at all the Knight and Bard weapons out there, some of them have insane ratios because they have lower skill caps, can't DW etc.

If you look at PoTime I really can't understand why we and monks dont get a class specific weapon. Lets se, Ench, Shammys, Bards, Rangers, SK's, Pallys, Warriors, Rogues, Clerics, Mages all get a class weapon. Think Necros and Wizards share their Skin klicky wand tho. Hmm, and I'm not sure about Druids. We share our weapon(s) with monks, why? :P

I actually thought about weapons with mods built in for beastlords.  Like nice 2hb +10% 2hb.  Or even a weapon that had a higher proc damage since we don't get as much of a boost out of a pure ratio adjustment.  Thing is it'd have to be "balanced".  Which might mean we see a more "beastlord" weapon that is hopefully performing as good as the monk counterpart.  Having a weapon with built in pet buff would be nice, or throw on dmg focus or something.  Again though I worry about SoE's ability to balance.  Much easier to stick "bst" onto a weapon than to balance proc damage verse ratio verse skill mod while trying keeping things balanced between monk/bst.  Kind of a shame now that I think about it.  Almost every reason I worry about or question a beastlord only weapons comes from flaws in the game imo.  Drop table, rot, failure to balance in a timingly fashion, etc.

Well, how do they balance Pal/Sk only weapons?  I wouldn't see a problem with them giving the monks some awesome ratio tonfa (1hb), and giving us a good ratio claw (h2h) with a nice damage unresistable ice proc.  Each would be situationally better than the other, but at least we'd have uniqueness.  It's just a little silly that all the classes have unique weapons except us 2.

The rotting does suck, but making 1 more weapon unique out of all the already unique ones is not going to add a significant percentage of rotting to the game.

Quote from: Evandar
If you look at PoTime I really can't understand why we and monks dont get a class specific weapon. Lets se, Ench, Shammys, Bards, Rangers, SK's, Pallys, Warriors, Rogues, Clerics, Mages all get a class weapon. Think Necros and Wizards share their Skin klicky wand tho. Hmm, and I'm not sure about Druids. We share our weapon(s) with monks, why? :P

These are all good points, but on the plus side by sharing we get two instead of one. (Shinai/Transcendence)

True Curse used to drop the offhand claw version Archlich used to drop, but monks bitched way to much, so SoE changed the offhand claw from Curse to fang and added mnk/bst to it.

i like the coupon idea as well.  however, based on 'rotting loot sucks' idea... how many pal / sk weapons drop throughout PoP?  and they aren't even dps classes, their weapons aren't really the most important part of their equipment.  meanwhile, for bsts and monks, the most important part of their equipment as far as raiding goes is probably weapons (i know hp and such is always a must), and haste items.  i dont think its too ridiculous to ask for our own weapon.  maybe im just greedy for the bsts of our guild, but few monks want the stone etched mallet, meanwhile bsts will grab that simply because its cheap and they need a decent weapon.  we already compete with monks for armor, but weapons too?  especially with as popular monks seem to be, i don't think it would be too far-fetched to get one weapon that has only a bst tag.  also based on the evidence of other class only weapons i have seen, it seems fair on that level as well.