Well since i wrote a reply only to find the thread locked i'll start a new one.
Let's face it a raiding bst is a dps class theres no getting around it. 99% of what a bst does on a raid is dps, except for the 1 bst needed for SE and the rare times you get called to mgb pos ( its never for the mana regen eaither). So as a dps class we lack, most ppl will tell you that we will parse just shy of rangers, ofc in the right hands we parse better than monks, and monks in the right hands parse better than rogues, and rogues in the right hands parse better than wiz in fights under 2 mins, and wiz in the right hands parse over 5000 dps. So i'll go back to our crappy dps. I think i recall a solteris lvl bst parsing around 2400 dps on a burn mob (personally i think he should be higher but he may not just have the touch). Even at 2400 dps we are still so far behind ber/rog/wiz/mnk/rng i've even seen a warrior out parse a bst. Something should be done. I mean rake was ours it was unique it was "cool". Then they gave it to monks except they made theres 5 times better when they were alrdy our parsing us.
For what we bring to the raid as utility our dps should be more. Now saying that i wouldn't mind if they gave of more dps or more utility. Just more of something to make us again wanted in a raiding scene. I'm calling a plee for something anything cause right now we need it.
Quote from: laissez on November 03, 2007, 03:49:59 AM
I think i recall a solteris lvl bst parsing around 2400 dps on a burn mob (personally i think he should be higher but he may not just have the touch).
Might wanna change that to 3098, I've parsed that on a 2 min burn no 7th , no shaman, no bard. inphared has hit as high as 3069 with a shaman. Now with that being said, we are by far not the best dps class or best at utility, but our dps is respectable in terms of comparing it to a ranger ( most cant come close to a good bst ) we are nearing monks now in dps. I want to see more utility personally, with a slight dps boost not comming to ourselfs but our pets. I think our dps is fine, but its our pets who are lacking.
We're a DPS class, that is true, but the same can be said for just about every other class save priests, knights, enchanters, and warriors. Where we fit on the scale for everything else is just fine to me. I like where we are in terms of DPS and I would be rather saddened to see us get boosted purely in that matter. What I would like to see is some bigger form of utility that will make us a good addition to raids.
Quote from: Inphared on November 03, 2007, 06:45:14 AM
We're a DPS class, that is true, but the same can be said for just about every other class save priests, knights, enchanters, and warriors. Where we fit on the scale for everything else is just fine to me. I like where we are in terms of DPS and I would be rather saddened to see us get boosted purely in that matter. What I would like to see is some bigger form of utility that will make us a good addition to raids.
Pretty much agree would like us to put out more dps than rangers and they tank better than us (or other way around even) if utility is equal. ATM I think our raid utility is lacking.
Read where we might be getting boosted in the grouping department next expansion. Not quite sure what would be the logic behind that as I think that is probably our strongest area atm..
Anyway thanks again Beta Beasts for all the work you have tried to get done.
Quote from: Sikkem on November 03, 2007, 12:08:20 PM
Read where we might be getting boosted in the grouping department next expansion. Not quite sure what would be the logic behind that as I think that is probably our strongest area atm..
I heard from someone not too long ago that everything they test is based off of a group level setting. I don't know how much water that holds, but it doesn't make too much sense since they have to test things in a raid environment as well (hi paragon). What would be really interesting is if they could code certain abilities to only work if you're in a raid size of like 18 or more, like with a banner.
Oh and whoever said Mages are probably worse of than us need to re-evaluate maybe. I had a look on their forums and they had a whine because they Prathun hadn't spoken to them since TBS Beta (Oh I wish we were that badly treated!) and because of that they all threw their toys out of their prams.
Now they are all happy again so I assume the normal has happened and Prathun has given into them yet again and given them what they wanted. More nerfs coming our way shortly then...
you need to look deeper, mages are by far one of the worst off classes, next to druids actually and enchanters, but still Mages aren't as honky dorry as you read. Read deeper in their forums and you might find out, also EQlive is a great tool on that.
Yeah, whilst I said that Mages are worse off than us which I hold true I have no idea what level of feed back they get from Dev's. DPS wise mages are the bottom of the pile, whilst they should be in the middle. Utility wise they are in the same boat as us, you only need 1 for mod rods unless you're doing DK and need a few more spare for CoH's. And pets they again are in the same boat.
DPS wise I am happy where we are as a class, I'm still having to use Demi weaponry but that is because of a crappy drop rate for my guild. But I frequently parse up to and around 2.2k mark without using veteran or glyph's. Although there may be some inaccuracy in those results when procs get fixed. Utility is the way I have wanted us to go for a while and really would like to see this go in and I think we'd be in a good position, obviously some pet fixes need to be done as well.
Yea mage raid utility is basically gone since they implmented raid flags and campfires. As dps most guilds i've talked to rather have a wizard, monk or rogue over a mage i'm sorry to say.
As for our spells most are an extension of what we already have with some new ones sprinkled in between (same with AAs) but I think bst got a lot more raid utility with this expansion.
QuoteMight wanna change that to 3098, I've parsed that on a 2 min burn no 7th , no shaman, no bard.
Care to talk us through how you managed that?
Top 5 nukes, mana recursion, both discs, BATM, and a glyph. 2900-3k is fairly easy to attain depending on which classes show up to a raid and who slacks/dies/etc
Having a zerker besides the usual shammy and bard in group helps a lot too.
Quote from: Denti on November 17, 2007, 03:54:59 PM
Having a zerker besides the usual shammy and bard in group helps a lot too.
Humlaine said he didnt have a shammy or a bard.
I was a high end bst, with same weapons, disks and spells as Inpha and i've never put in 3k dps ever.
Humlaine will post the parses in a second.
Beastlords 3k parse (http://tinyurl.com/3xsp94)
I will be posting inph's soon as I can dig it up and post it on my site.
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1368/me3krf0.jpg)
I quite agree that we need a boost all around, the Beastlord was when I started an utility class, less wanted than a shaman but still popular. Now I can only get into a group as DPS, occasionally I get invited to a group below my level a bit to tank (EX. tank in WoS at lvl 71) I would dearly love to see us get a boost in all aspects, our spells, our melee, our weapons....theres a sore point for me, we had some weapons that were JUST ours, now monks at least can use all weapons Ive seen that we can, all other classes have more weapons than just their epics that only that class can use.
_______________________________________________________
Vartra Dzaedoh 71 Beastlord of Prexus (Born on Terris Thule)
When was the last time you played? :|
We're really one of the better classes out there right now. Our mana regen utility is amazing and our DPS isn't bad at all.
Quote from: VartraDzaedoh on November 18, 2007, 07:08:08 PM
I quite agree that we need a boost all around, the Beastlord was when I started an utility class, less wanted than a shaman but still popular. Now I can only get into a group as DPS, occasionally I get invited to a group below my level a bit to tank (EX. tank in WoS at lvl 71) I would dearly love to see us get a boost in all aspects, our spells, our melee, our weapons....theres a sore point for me, we had some weapons that were JUST ours, now monks at least can use all weapons Ive seen that we can, all other classes have more weapons than just their epics that only that class can use.
Our group utility "problem" is perception more than anything else...we're actually quite strong in groups. Though, I would like a non-steeltrap slow upgrade, and for cripple to be brought back up to date as well. The new single target paragon is amazing though (/pout that it takes so damn many AAs to get there).
As far as weapons...uhmm, where have you been w/ itemization? We're actually very good on it, and it's a huge bonus for us to be on h2h w/ the monks (bst/monk weapons traditionally have better ratios than generic melee weapons). Class-only weapons were almost entirely phased out many expansions ago.
This is all kind of depressing..Inpha is all by himself, and I personally agree with him. When I see bst dps on our raid parses there is always at least one of us in the top 5. I am very very happy with our dps and the AA's we received in SoF are very nice..Focused Para by itself rocks, I rarely if ever run low on mana now. As far as only getting picked up in groups to be DPS, whats wrong with that? In tight stiuations a bst can even tank if he needs too with the right gear. I actually have a tank set up on my bandolier for emergencies. With the new heals we get I can crit heal for over 5k, and I get numerous heals over 2k which can be a lifesaver when helping to heal a tank when the cleric/druid drew heal aggro and died cause they coulldn't take the hits....ok rant off :-D
Inpha isnt alone, many of us are very happy with raiding beastlord DPS. Ive parsed #1 (surpassing monks, wizzies, and rogues on a few fights) and I've been beaten by the same ppl. In every AG raid I parse in the top 5% and I rarely get a bard or shammy. I also think SoF did a ton for boosting our raid utility, focused paragon is probably our best skill to date. Now if we could only get ferocity boosted to where it was that kind of utility.
Yup, our dps is pretty nice. We are not nr 1 dps if the other classes dont sleep but we come close behind wizzies, rogues and zerkers and quite often equal or only slightly behind monks (although i have to say our guild monks slack a bit on the dps side).
It would be really nice to make Fero a usable spell again, at the moment it is basicly a dead line. However prathuun basicly admitted in a dev chat that he is unable to make Fero usefull again with the current game mechanics.
As a Beastlord i am amazed at how we are right now. I cannot think of something else i want except for a longer haste for group but am content with the one we have now =) The thing i hope to always have is to have fun on my Beastlord I hope others agree with me =P
Ew, group or longer haste.. -_- that's all Im gonna say