On EQlive's forums, the question has been posed as to what we as a class think should be pursued in the ways of AA's.
So, I thought I'd bring that question here.
What do you all want to see?
Most everyone who's posted there has mentioned upping our double attack aa so far.
I'd love to see that, and some more aa's centerd on the pet, but not sure how to approach it at this point. Any ideas?
well you dont want to hear my opinion....
I just want pet shrink working again...
Other than that... I feel that GoD AAs havent even had time to be fully tested yet.... and therefore there will be alot of unbalance still with them.... that needs tinkkering...
I feel this expansion should be delayed another 3months
I'd like fury of magic and swarm pet AAs. More double attack is ok. I actually like how beastlords are a bit different and get more dps from non-melee and procs and stuff. I'd like to see more AA's to help procs, pet, nukes, etc personally.
I think I mentioned this preference in another thread but will bring it up again. I would like to see an AA titled call of the pack which would bring a swarm of wolves to attack a single target. Yes this is just like the other pet classes but gives us an animal "swarm" to assist us. I would also like to see an indoor/outdoor eye of zomm that gives us a hawk outdoors and a rat indoors that would scout for us.
It would be a reach for our EQ hosts, but I would be willing to earn a lot of AA's to get various levels of tracking.
Finally, as a beastlord, I would like an AA that gives me an outdoor animal to ride, something impressive and not necessarily fast, like an elephant or mammoth.
Pipedreams? Probably... but you asked.
LOL, how sweet would it be to ride a mamoth places?
I know I would like to be able to at least use my warder as an "eye of zomm" type feature sometime as well. I hate having to keep those goofy gnome toys around all the time.
Oh yeah and right up there with pet swarm for me, SCRM!! Too much buffing as is, lots of shorter duration buffs. It's been a few expansions I think beasts more than deserve to get this AA opened up to them now.
Pet swarm, more double attack or even triple attack, and greater magic crits would all be very good. Also give us some form of track. I might get that one before anything else.
More pet-enhancing AAs would be nice, as long as the cost for em isn't GoDly. We're paying far too much for our own AAs as it is. Take a skill like Combat Fury for instance. All the other melees pay 21 pts for CF3 and FotA3 and they're done. But for us those skills apply only to half our power, and we have to fork down another 15pts for Warder's Fury to get the same total benefit. All our offensive AAs should be mirrored for our pets and the cost for both cut in half so that the cost/benefit ratio is the same as for the other melee classes. (Defensive AAs should remain the same, because defense doesnt stack).
Our pet's have been neglected far too long. Only recently have we been able to enhance our pets with focus items and GoD AAs. But only a fraction of all BLs have access to tier2+ pet focus items, and the efficiency of the GoD AAs is awful because of the high cost.
/hugs
An aa that lets us raise 1hb/2hb/piercing to the same level as hand to hand would be nice, more double attack is a sure thing as well. We should get more pet aas, i would love a pet ac or avoidance/mitigation aa to get at least a bit tankability back for it, in GoD its useless for that.
Hastened Paragon and hastened mgb is another thing i would like to see. More dd/dot crits and enhanced healing aas would be nice as well. I dont think we should get track since neither of our parent classes have it, but i would really like to see a long reuse FD aa (which should fd the pet as well).
My thoughts...
Pet AAs I wish we had:
1) Suspend Minion3 (Pet's weapons, Buffs saved ACROSS zones).
2) Call of the Wild (Similar to Mage Monster Summoning, but summons a Animal type for that zone, comperable to what ever the status quo of pets are in OoW (level, etc)).
3) Bestial Totem (Lowers Pets health by 400, increases our regen by 4-5)
4) /Pet Protect (allows you to order your pet to protect another, example /Pet Protect Soandso (PC or NPC), pet follows and protects them just as it normally does us).
Other AAs I wish we had:
5) Duelist (Enrage)
6) Stonestance (improved PoSpirits)
I fully support all the other fine ideas here, these are listed just cause they are not mentioned yet =)
Quote from: Mhordel4) /Pet Protect (allows you to order your pet to protect another, example /Pet Protect Soandso (PC or NPC), pet follows and protects them just as it normally does us).
I love that idea!
A few ideas:
- Phoenix Warder: when warder is killed, two or more smaller versions appear that continue to attack the same target.
I do not think this would be overpowering, and it would give us a form of swarm pet. This can also be added to mages, perhaps going along a new "phoenix" (fire) pet.
- Ethereal Warder: this AA makes the pet etheral. In that state, the pet causes no Push when attacking mobs (maybe add some mitigation boost also)
This will allow us to use pets in situations when the raid (I think, wrongly) asks us to kill pets because of "Push".
- Fearless Warder,Resistant Warder: These kind of AA would make the pet immune to one kind of magic (but not us).
These AAs should of course be limited to a small amount of time, but could be useful when facing some weird effect, and may provide us a place in raids where this ability would be of use.
Of course, These AAs can be distributed among necros, mage & beastlords, so each class would have its unique use:
- Fire, Cold: Mage AA
- Poison,Disease: Necro AA
- Fear, Curse: Beastlord AA.
I like the idea of Pet Suspend III (with the new zone effects that happen every 5 mins, we cannot lose 2 mins buffing pets), Pet Protect. Many of the other ideas will help us increase our DPS, but I do not see them of much use in the raid settings, or in the traps we will find in the new zones.
Quote1) Suspend Minion3 (Pet's weapons, Buffs saved ACROSS zones).
2) Call of the Wild (Similar to Mage Monster Summoning, but summons a Animal type for that zone, comperable to what ever the status quo of pets are in OoW (level, etc)).
3) Bestial Totem (Lowers Pets health by 400, increases our regen by 4-5)
4) /Pet Protect (allows you to order your pet to protect another, example /Pet Protect Soandso (PC or NPC), pet follows and protects them just as it normally does us).
Other AAs I wish we had:
5) Duelist (Enrage)
6) Stonestance (improved PoSpirits)
Suspend Minion 3 would be great: suspending pets accross zones would be really nice. Actually, if I remember well, bst pets didn't die in zoning at Luclin release, so making it possible again through an AA would be nice.
Call of the Wild: I would like to see something like an animal pack personnally.
Bestial totem: I love this idea. Maybe could do it as a pet DoT and bst regen instead of pet DD.
Pet protect: hehe! I've been wanting this for a VERY long time now :roll: It would be so nice :)
Quote
- Phoenix Warder: when warder is killed, two or more smaller versions appear that continue to attack the same target.
I do not think this would be overpowering, and it would give us a form of swarm pet. This can also be added to mages, perhaps going along a new "phoenix" (fire) pet.
- Ethereal Warder: this AA makes the pet etheral. In that state, the pet causes no Push when attacking mobs (maybe add some mitigation boost also)
This will allow us to use pets in situations when the raid (I think, wrongly) asks us to kill pets because of "Push".
- Fearless Warder,Resistant Warder: These kind of AA would make the pet immune to one kind of magic (but not us).
These AAs should of course be limited to a small amount of time, but could be useful when facing some weird effect, and may provide us a place in raids where this ability would be of use.
Of course, These AAs can be distributed among necros, mage & beastlords, so each class would have its unique use:
I think the Phoenix Warder idea is very nice.
Temp immunities could be nice, too.
However I'm not a big fan of Ethereal personnally.
Maybe an AA allowing us to track would be nice, too.
I never understand why the beastlords never got track. *shrugs*
An AA (or just make it so for all pet classes) that makes the pet see invis (i.e. dont poof when master invis). Main reason for this: Bard who dont think and plays inviss song when pulling. :P
SCFM (More crits! )
SCRM (I think thats the name. :P Makes buffs last even longer anyway.) Illusion Warder AA (gives some atk and sow speed)
Shrink pet AA (costs 1 AA, insta cast, casts Tiny Companion)
Summon Companion AA (also 1 AA, insta cast summon companion)
4-5 more levels of BF
Hastend MGB (dont sound to unreasonable)
Spiriit of Hobble (step 2, makes it stack with current proc)
Spells:
66 - Group shrink, Spirit of soandso (new pet), Abolish Poison, Levi (without batwing)
67 - 900ish heal, Remove Curse, Group Kraggs, Group Regen
68 - Nuke (without recast time 800ish dmg), Pet proc (prismatic or chromatic resist), Fixed 10 mins invis
69 - SV upgrade, new pet heal, pet heal over time, Group Haste
70 - Group Fero (costs DoTs, not MGB'able), New SD (11/tick mabey?), Slow (same as we have but with neg30 resist), Protection of Calliav upgrade (Like 5 hits?), Ancient Fero (Group but without DoT cost and not MGb'able).
Can dream can't I? :P
AA's:
-Spell Casting Reinforcement Mastery
- An AA that gives one possibly two more weaponskills we could get to 250, possibly 1hb and 2hb.
Spells:
- Group Ferocity
- Group Shrink ( what is the harm in giving us this?)
- Spritual ? (upgrade to SD)
- Slow (either disease based or a magic based slow with a small negative resist)
Disciplines
- Weaponshield
- Upgrade to Protective
Quote1) Suspend Minion3 (Pet's weapons, Buffs saved ACROSS zones).
if were going to dream, could we dream of a suspend minion that keeps our pets shrunk after they come back to life?
IMHO, our warders really, truely, ought to zone with us and remain buffed/weaponed. It just makes sence from a class standpoint since they are our companions, they travel with us everywhere. Necros and Mages summon elementals/skeles from another plane/death and force them to work for them for a time.. it makes sence that they'd have to get new ones everytime they travel a great distance (Say, from North to South Freeport)
My understanding is that it's a database issue in that the coding only allows for the character to cross zones with just the info about what they have on and their buffs (This was related to the old issue of losing all buffs when zoning at near death).. I doubt they'd go through the trouble of re-doing the coding just to benefit one class.
But, hey, one can dream :P
Quote from: PojodanI doubt they'd go through the trouble of re-doing the coding just to benefit one class.
But seeing as every other pet class wants it I foresee them doing it via an AA (ala pet hold) because they love to fix broken gameplay issues with AAs.
Summon minion3 would be good, also either a AA that raises 1hb/2hb/piercing to same lv as h2h or they raise as we lv.
Track aa which would be usefull,not overpowerering and completely fitting in with our class bio.
Personally would like whatever we get to be useful,no eyecandy and nothing costing about 20 aa's
I am fine with anything that seriously improves dps or damage avoidance or mitigation.
Our high level pets rampage when down to 10%. A new AA could improve this by switching rampage on at 15, 20, 30% hp left. I mean who seriously lets his warder get down to 10% fighting appropriate mobs for the level ? (i might do this fighting spiderlings at Freeport West, but it takes more spiderlings than there are spawned to get my warder down to 90%).
While I'm not really into the high end AAs but, this is my two cents .
Pet Consume
Kills the pet but we gain all the pets powers/HP/Buff for a short time.
Lycanthropy ( Surprised that no one has mentioned this )
The Beastlord becomes a Humanoid version of his pet....with a stat increase of sorts..
Ogers....the Tundra Bears in GD
Barbs....The werewolves from the MMC LDoN
Trolls....?
Iksar...?
Val Shar...?
No really well thought out...but just my thoughts
Lycanthropy would be sorta like the Bestial Alignment AA we get (Illusion :warder race, 50/75/100% dmg increase, 20% spell resistance {I think this means you resist 20% of all spells before a resist check is made or if you fail a resist check a second one is made vs the 20% thing})
Added, I think EQ lore has it more of the druids and rangers having the skill of lycanthropy (Lycanthropic staff or something like that is usable by rangers or druids.) :roll:
Had to admit that I did forget about Bestial Alignment and the illusion :( . Also that would mean that they would have to increase the global file again for the models. So that is not going to really happen....
I just thought it would be a cool idea...
I would buy OoW for the pet suspend 3 alone! Remaking my pet in every zone is a chore..
i want to see an aa with 5 lvls... each lvl adds 20 attack, and 2points of haste. Each lvl will cost 5AA and go up as so... maybe 5, 6, 7, 8 ,9, 10?
that would be an amazing AA. Even the BST with around 2500 or so attack raid buffed would like another 100 attack and 10% haste? Or even 1% haste to add 5%.
Since 2 handed weapons are so popular, instead of raising our other melee skills through AA, I have a different idea. How about 2 Handed Martial weapons. There's already H2H weapons that look like blunts, like the Shinai from Time. Take some of the monk/bst only 2 handed staves and change them to hand to hand skill.
As for AA's:
Allow 2 proc's to be imbued to the pet. Great for using with pet snare.
Since we have Warder's Fury, a good continuation of that would be Warder's Avoidance, Warder's Stability, and Warder's Durability.
An AA to allow us to imbue ourselves with warder procs. Doesnt have to be the big stuff; Sub60 proc's would probably work fine. Would help with aggro control and add some dps to us.
My pet tanks for crap as it is. Even on slowed mobs, even with armor on. I ran some tests just having my pet killing HoH guardians and it was painful to watch (and do). Mages got pet defensive AAs because their pets tank for them, as a beastlord I tank for my pet ~95% of the time. Occasionally he'll OT something trivial, but very seldom. Even if the pet tanked slightly better it's still not worth the lost damage from me melee'n.
What I want to see out of OoW are hybrid AA's that make sense (especially for beastlords). The inflated costs of certain AAs are silly and the fact that beastlords pay just as much for certain AAs as other classes yet get 1/2 to 1/4th the return is silly. Beastial frenzy was a step in the right direction. It was cheap, it gave a good % return to melee, but overall it didn't do that much. Paying the same 12 AA for SCF3 that a wizard does to get almost a 7% boost to damage verse the maybe 1% boost a beastlord get's, who then turns around and spends 9 AA for ambi and get's less of an overall boost as a monk and then turns around and buys all his pet AAs is silly. I've said it before and I'll say it again I've spent more AA than some classes can. Hybrids overall and especially beastlords simply don't get the same return on AA as some other classes. Due to this there need to be specific hybrids only (beastlord only) AAs like bestial frenzy and others along those lines that give a better return for what they do (BF for melee dmg maybe another for spell damage and some for pet damage), but overall simply don't give as much of a boost because of how our damage is divided up. Mind you I don't want better AAs or more of a return, but I don't want to keep having to grind out 100+ AAs per expansion just to get the same return some other classes get from 30.
Oh yeah and SCRM, FoM, Pet swarm and maybe pet mount AA (pity the iksars!).
What I would like to see is an AA that passes some of the benefits of our offensive/defensive AA upgrades onto our pet. We like other hybrids suffer from AA's only being a partial benefit, but ours is to a much worse degree because of our warders. We buy ambidex or and only get half the benefit of a monk.
Why not pass that ability onto the warder somehow. Would make our AA's worth as much as other classes and give a decent upgrade
I would like to see a few new AA's...
Clone Warder - (Requires Suspend Minion 2 (or 3 if they figure out how to make it zone) When activated, your current pet including all buffs and items is cloned into suspension.
Warder Control - When activated, a targeting circle appears on the ground around your cursor, clicking on the ground will send your warder to that location. (OR) Allows the pet to be summoned a short distance to your location even when the pet is fighting a mob.
Call of The Beasts - (Swarm Pet AA) Similar damage/duration as Shaman Swarm Pets, but summons each type of Beastlord Warder. So when the AA was maxed, you'd have a Gator, Tiger, Wolf, Scaled Wolf, and Bear.
...and some old AA's passed along to us.
Spell Reinforcement Mastery - 50% innate extended buffs.
Ferocity - Improved Double Attack.
QuoteTrack aa which would be usefull,not overpowerering and completely fitting in with our class bio.
That horse was beaten dead long ago. It doesn't fit with the lore of the class and we have enough bitching from the shaman and monk communities as it is, I'd prefer not to start hearing it from rangers, druids and bards too.
QuoteCall of The Beasts - (Swarm Pet AA)
Pet swarm also does not fit with class lore, nor does any kind of alternate pet summons. We are not "masters of beasts". We are the companions of a single bonded creature. We don't summon our pets like the other classes from a lore perspective - we simply have a companion with us.
AA I would like to see:
An AA to raise the cap of Piercing, 1hb and 2hb to our hth cap.
Increased double attack
Spell Reinforcement Mastery
Fury of Magic Mastery
Additional pet enhancement AA
Suspended Minion carrying the pet accross zones would be great.
Mostly agree with the list, but I still feel...
"An AA to raise the cap of Piercing, 1hb and 2hb to our hth cap. "
Is simply a balance issue that should go to test and then be pushed live with a patch. It's silly to make beastlords pay points for skill cap adjustments. Bards didn't pay when they got it. It's not an AA issue or an expansion issue imo, it's an overall game issue and that should be addressed as part of a patch.
If everything had to be based on lore, there would be lots of classes, including beastlords, that wouldn't have the skills/spells/aa that they have today.
Lore is in the past... let's get over it and move forward.
QuoteIt's not an AA issue or an expansion issue imo, it's an overall game issue and that should be addressed as part of a patch.
I agree, but I'd pay for it nonetheless =P
QuoteLore is in the past... let's get over it and move forward.
By lore, I mean class concept. Changing the core concept of the class to do something that isn't in any way in character for the class is nothing but abilities for abilities sake. I had the same argument with Bestial Alignment. It just doesn't make any sense for our class, and neither does pet swarm or summon animal.
Given today's EQ and the style of play SoE are aiming for I see no real reason why for all pet classes they cannot simply recode pets to zone with us complete with all gear, buffs and level.
It would certainly eliminate a lot of the PAIN associated with being a pet class without affecting our balance whatsoever. My one and only major gripe with playing a beastlord is the sheer amount of time it takes to re-summon the pet and give him even the min of buffs (Haste + Proc + Ios + SoW/Shrew). And we have to do that EVERYTIME we zone for any reason (evac... grrrrr). Shamans are in the same boat as are mages and necros to a far lesser extent (losing pet gear is a pain though). It really is a huge downtime handicap for pet classes - it costs me at least 20% of my total mana to re-summon and re-buff the pet after an evac in an LDoN, meanwhile the other group members are quickly off and running back to where we evacced from ready to fight.
We have seen that this is possible and I can't think of any real exploits or problems with this. If they want to be overly cautious and truly safe from exploitation then just kill the pet if it is 'the focus of somethings attention' (ie. has aggro with a creature) when the owner zones (however a group evac spell should bring the pets also). Of course such code would only apply to our true summoned pets and not charmies or the temporary pets (such as procced pets, cleric hammers, wizard swords etc).
Cant remember who said it first but..
OMG warder FD!
The ability to FD my warder to split a camp would be an awesome ability.
Give it a 10 min reuse so you cant be a main puller or something but so you have a chance to at least check aggro radius on mobs.
also:
-zoning-proof pet suspend would be great.
-combat stability mastery, combat agility mastery, planar durability
-spell casting reinforcement mastery
QuoteThat horse was beaten dead long ago. It doesn't fit with the lore of the class and we have enough bitching from the shaman and monk communities as it is, I'd prefer not to start hearing it from rangers, druids and bards too.
Not sure where you get it doesnt fit as, a direct quote from our class lore on eqlive is:
'Beastlords are the masters of raw nature'
now to me that gives us alot more reason to have track than someone who spends all his time singing and scaring away any nearby animals :lol:
After spending 45 aa points in healing skills I have found that it totally changed the way I play my character. With a Healing 4 focus item I drop 1100 hp heals all the time and 5 k heals on my pet.
I would like to see more healing aa
A Paragon Upgrade or a way to boost the output of our current paragon or an aa to reduce the timer on paragon by 5, 10 and 20%.
SCRM <<<< if you are not gonna give us group buffs hook a brother up
this would also help Paragon output. Fero also will stick longer
An aa Based offensive disc or an active aa that can cause our warder to go offensive for 30 seconds wirh 4x damage to max hits. Warder rage or something along that line.
Give us an aa that will alow us to specialize in magic type
Just a few things to mull over
Rustycat
Haven't seen much of this in the ideas... What I'd really like to see are some AAs that boost our defensive capabilities (along the lines of LR/ID etc.). Right now I'm getting the crap kicked out of me in GoD. Granted I don't have the best equipment around but it ain't terrible, and I do have all our defensive AAs. I know that GoD was designed around level 70 but...
How about an AA that sends a portion of the incoming damage (~30%) to our warders. Like the warrior's shield ability but clickable for about 30s with a timer fo say 10 mins or so. That along with PoS should give us a decent chance to survive more than 5s in GoD.
I'm quite hopeful that with OoW there will be generic AA upgrades like 5 more ranks of LR/ID for everyone. Possibly a few more ranks of ND or other hp AA. The idea of a warder divine arbitration type of AA has been tossed around. It has some merit imo, but I worry about it being balanced to the point of being almost useless.
Quote from: CaaliHow about an AA that sends a portion of the incoming damage (~30%) to our warders. Like the warrior's shield ability but clickable for about 30s with a timer fo say 10 mins or so. That along with PoS should give us a decent chance to survive more than 5s in GoD.
This idea interests me. Our pets already have the innate ability to use the /shield command, the problem is that they rarely use it as we have no control over when they use it. Perhaps they can add an AA along the lines of Pet Discipline that adds a new pet command, /pet shield me. You could possibly even add a second level, /pet shield target.
AA that makes pets affected by our AA Innates(Run5, Regen5, Resists etc)
Perhaps a steed/mount of some kind?
I am torn on a few issues with OoW AAs(am I the only one that calls it Ow?)
On one hand I really don't understand why a Bard can have tracking, and it's fully accepted, but we don't. It just doesn't make sense. Couse I feel the same way about foraging as well. Even if we capped at the 50 like Iksar racial, it'd be something. (Shadowknights as an example get a class Hide to 50). I don't think this would be damaging to the delicate psyche of the Iksar, as AC bonus, and regen are the main unique abilities of that race... (sorry for the humor impared, that was sarcasm), however it's not really worth the fight anymore to champion a "dead" issue.
I like the little things GoD added to the pet. Any way to improve the pet would be highly beneficial, and I'm pretty much happy with that.
Now, onto the pet issue. All character recrods have a 150 (some) character WASTED field. It's a field I'd bet 80% of the players don't even know about, and of the 20% remaining I'd bet 90% don't use. It's a description field for when you are inspected. That's more than enough to put pet data into including armor, weapons and buffs and is saved along with every character. There is the data field for SM3.
Here's one for you. I'd like an AA I can toggle on and off "Tiny Companion" with this AA on, the pet is summoned at the level 9 pet model. Useful for raids. Hell useful all the time. I'd spend 9 points on that long before I'd spend it on some of the AAs we get.
Quote from: TastianI'm quite hopeful that with OoW there will be generic AA upgrades like 5 more ranks of LR/ID for everyone. Possibly a few more ranks of ND or other hp AA. The idea of a warder divine arbitration type of AA has been tossed around. It has some merit imo, but I worry about it being balanced to the point of being almost useless.
That would be ideal really, but if they want to implement a more unique solution...
I agree that the ability would have to be balanced in a fashion that's fair. My issue is right now is this (not including plate classes who can mitigate more effectively)...
1. Druids, Mages, Wizards, Rangers and Enchanters all attack from a distance and while their defensive skills are a pittance (except rangers)they USUALLY not being hit unless they overnuke.
2. Necros and Monks have feign death. I'm not saying things are perfect but at least they both have a mechanism to lose aggro and survive a GoD mob beating on them.
3. Clerics get DA/DB.
4. Rogues get evade, escape.
5. Beserkers have some kind of aggro shedding special attack but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. (Could possibly be wrong)
6. Beastlords are in melee range, often swallow ripostes and have no way except to run away to avoid dying and we all know how well that works. The "Pet Shield" would allow us at least a chance to survive until a proper tank can regain aggro.
I see this transfer of damage to the warder as a viable alternative. Being a leather class we are hit significantly harder, unless I'm mistaken, and I usually can last 2-3 rounds in a fight in GoD vs level 65 mob.
Switching topics, I'm not too keen on AA's that duplicate in game spells like Tiny Companion and those that give you a mount when you can purchase one. I just rather see something more useful and not something that can be bought or cast already. If you want that mount or to shrink your warder you can do it, don't be lazy :P Although a selection of different mounts might be neat.
I'd like:
Spell Casting Reinforcement Mastery for longer buffs
Fury of Magic to increase frequency of crit nukes
Pet Obedience: (Requires Pet hold)
Causes the pet to attack the mob you send it after and ONLY that mob. Warder would resume its 'hold' state after the mob died or you backed it off. Nothing I hate more than mashing pet hold & pet back off after every single mob on a raid!
Paragon II:
I think they are weary of having too much mana regeneration in the game, if they just beefed up the amount it healed I would be happy
Hobble of Spirits II:
Make this work a little better, stopping mobs before they get too far.
I don't have a problem with us paying the same price for aa's as pure classes. I think of it as the penalty for having so much variety.
Quote from: kizhI'd like:
Paragon II:
I think they are weary of having too much mana regeneration in the game, if they just beefed up the amount it healed I would be happy
Or, SOE could make it that Paragon II just refreshes sooner. Instead of 15 minutes, make 2 advancing ranks of paragon:
12.5 minute refresh for 5 aa's
10 minute refresh for an additional 10 aa's
15 aa's to shave off 5 minutes from Paragon refresh; I'd do it.
My priority would be general pet power / pet related AAs. I agree with Coprolith's general take on that.
I like the /pet protect idea
Also like the pet obedience idea
Some form of longer lasting pet illusion for myself ( not necessarily with a huge stat upgrade ) would be something I'd definitely buy if available
If it was possible to intoduce the ability to take the pet across zones, even if it required it to be suspended, and to keep its buffs, that would be amazing. Such a boon in LDoN. No more 'one moment for me to get my pet up...' followed by the group starting fighting anyway and juggling pet summoning, shrinking, slowing and pet buffing all at once :D
Oh what the heck, while I'm dreaming... why not :) I'd definitely buy an AA that let me summon some sort of warder related mount, like some spirit cat thing in the case of the Vah Shir. I'm doubtful that one would happen, but it's a thought.
Call of The Beasts - (Swarm Pet AA)
- hrm... dont really want swarm pets... But, imagine if pet shrink still isnt fixed and this goes live. Can you imagine 3, 4, even 5 tigers coming out on a raid.... now can you imagine 3-4 beastlords each with this AA?
Your guildies will freak, OMG SHRINK DA KITTIES/WOLVES!
Wolves as well.... Gators, People will think Trolls dont get this AA :P
yes I love to see dozens of pets just tear through a mob just as much as the next person, but.... on raids, its just not,... I dunno
"AA that makes pets affected by our AA Innates(Run5, Regen5, Resists etc) "
Am afraid it would make the warder so strong that it would have to cost 30aa, or be nerfed and removed quickly.
I would like to see our pets travel across zones again if possible.
I would like to see pet shrink fixed.
I would like to see our other melee raised to 250.
I would like to see a shorter paragon maybe
Longer buffs via SCRM,
Id also like to see a longer fero... maybe 10min maybe?
Even at 30% extended buffs, a 10 min fero would come out to 13 mins. At a 2 min refresh time, that would allow for 6 people to have fero on from just one beastlord. In essence, that would be a group fero with a long recast. We know thats not going to happen.
"Even at 30% extended buffs, a 10 min fero would come out to 13 mins. At a 2 min refresh time, that would allow for 6 people to have fero on from just one beastlord. In essence, that would be a group fero with a long recast. We know thats not going to happen."
Uhhh, why not? There is already a fero upgrade listed for OoW spells, even if it's the exact same duration/recast I'll now be able to keep fero(ish) on 8 people instead of 4 (assuming I have the mana). As it is I already run savagery at times too. I've yet to see them dead set againist a group fero and I think one of the biggest concerns with a "group" fero is the MGB aspect of it. Simply by giving us another fero spell though they are raising the number of people we can keep the buff on.
*Pet Affinity - level 2:
Warder shares all AA abilities of the owner. Think I'd pay another 20 AA for that one.
permanent
*Share Health with Pet:
3 levels:
1st: 4k worth of damage gets split between owner and warder (so each 2k)
2nd: 8k
3rd: 12k
reuse: 10 minutes
*Group Frenzy, reuse 30 min
*SCRM for good measure
*Infest weapons:
imbues weapons with 200 dmg disease based proc (neg 50 resist mod)
*improved hobble:
stronger snare, longer duration and 150 dmg hard to resist disease DD
*Call of the warder:
3 levels. calls 3 / 5 / 7 mini warders for 30 secs, reuse 30 min
*Brother of Nature:
Beastlord can do a pact with a druid and absorb 20 pct dmg of all damage they take. reuse: instant, duration: unlimited
:)
QuoteBrother of Nature:
Beastlord can do a pact with a druid and absorb 20 pct dmg of all damage they take. reuse: instant, duration: unlimited
Traitor of Nature: Once you have used Brother of Nature to take some damage for a druid, use this AA to make the druid absord 100% of the damage you take.
Hobble of Spirits 2
Same duration, same snare %. STACKS WITH RELLIC.
Thats all I ask for.
Quote*Brother of Nature:
Beastlord can do a pact with a druid and absorb 20 pct dmg of all damage they take. reuse: instant, duration: unlimited
????
QuoteHobble of Spirits 2
Same duration, same snare %. STACKS WITH RELLIC.
That should be Hobble 1.
maybe brotehr of spirits then and replace druid with shm lol, rangers may have the brother of nature and get to take dmg for a druid )
anyways I just notice druids / shms getting a pounding rather often and would love something to be done for em that involves other classes thus my idea of the "brother of soundso" perma shielding
--
I am also searching an idea on how to share my mana with others in a new way, cause how it is I sit on 90 pct mana most of the time with no use at all.. (the same is true for most hybrids cept maybe paladin and the not so hybrid bard -- so they d need similar)
"I am also searching an idea on how to share my mana with others in a new way, cause how it is I sit on 90 pct mana most of the time with no use at all.."
I think the new OoW spells will more than cover mana useage. The new nukes are great and can run a couple of them easy. New fero, and can run old fero too. As it is some raids I have fero on 4 people and sav on 4 more lol. Now if our heal got boosted to a reasonable level I'd be using mana constantly.
AA:
I'd like to see an Improved Paragon AA line. 2 or 3 AA's to increase the mana/hp regen of this ability, its duration and its recast. With today's mana pools this pre PoP ability is out-of-date and needs to be improved.
Spells:
Spiritual Dominion. I see on Lucy that we will get an upgrade to this class defining spell. Unfortunately at this time its an underwhelming upgrade. SD provides 9 mana a tick, while the upgrade provides 10 mana a tick. Considering today's mana pools 12 mana a tick would not be out of line. I would not mind seeing a small atk modifier added to this line as well as some hp.
Ferocity. I have a love/hate relationship with this spell. According to Lucy we get two upgrades to this spell. The final upgrades costs 750 mana for 6.5 mins and has a 2 min recast. This spell line could really boost a beastlord's value on raids if the mana cost was reduced to 500 for 12 mins and a strike-thru modifier added to it.
I Fero two people on raids, myself and a rogue or ranger. I refuse to become a Fero bitch. Keeping those two up and using Trushar's Frost and Frost Spear keep up a good demand on my mana, usually at 50 percent or less, and I'm closing in on 6k mana. Doesn't Savagery still cost a dot? I don't farm much cash, keep in mind QVIC armour costs 10k, and I'm sure my guild won't reimburse me for a spell that lasts all of 6 mins. If Savagery didn't have the dot cost I'd probably start using it in addition to Fero. Bottom line though, my guild's dps is insane and Fero provides very little.
Please keep in mind that only top beastlords have 5k+ mana.
"Spiritual Dominion. I see on Lucy that we will get an upgrade to this class defining spell. Unfortunately at this time its an underwhelming upgrade. SD provides 9 mana a tick, while the upgrade provides 10 mana a tick. Considering today's mana pools 12 mana a tick would not be out of line. I would not mind seeing a small atk modifier added to this line as well as some hp. "
Upgrade should be 11. Line went 3, 5, 7, 9...10 lol. Also I don't want to see +atk added to this for stacking reasons. We already get several attack buffs, if they want us to buff more attack than add it to those spells.
"I Fero two people on raids, myself and a rogue or ranger. I refuse to become a Fero bitch. Keeping those two up and using Trushar's Frost and Frost Spear keep up a good demand on my mana"
No offense, but why are you fero'n yourself and then talking about mana efficency and damage? hehe
"Bottom line though, my guild's dps is insane and Fero provides very little."
If your guild's dps is that good then you tossing a frost spear isn't doing a lot either. Fero in most cases is more mana efficent damage than our nukes.
" Doesn't Savagery still cost a dot? I don't farm much cash, keep in mind QVIC armour costs 10k, and I'm sure my guild won't reimburse me for a spell that lasts all of 6 mins. If Savagery didn't have the dot cost I'd probably start using it in addition to Fero. "
Yeah savagery does, but it's 10pp a cast and can make a decent differance if you are down some dps people or bard is LD and resists aren't max, etc. I don't run it full time, but I always have dots on me if I feel that it's needed. Also you mention you only fero 2 people. With AA/focus you can keep fero on 4 people. No need to start using savagery if you aren't even using fero on everyone that you can.
"Please keep in mind that only top beastlords have 5k+ mana."
Over the course of a raid session base mana pool doesn't matter that much. Mana regen is the key along with effects that lower mana cost and increase spell duration. Over a 2 hour period of time a 6k mana pool is only ~FT5 hehe and that's if you go from FM to OOM.
Quote from: Tastian"Spiritual Dominion. I see on Lucy that we will get an upgrade to this class defining spell. Unfortunately at this time its an underwhelming upgrade. SD provides 9 mana a tick, while the upgrade provides 10 mana a tick. Considering today's mana pools 12 mana a tick would not be out of line. I would not mind seeing a small atk modifier added to this line as well as some hp. "
Upgrade should be 11. Line went 3, 5, 7, 9...10 lol. Also I don't want to see +atk added to this for stacking reasons. We already get several attack buffs, if they want us to buff more attack than add it to those spells.
"I Fero two people on raids, myself and a rogue or ranger. I refuse to become a Fero bitch. Keeping those two up and using Trushar's Frost and Frost Spear keep up a good demand on my mana"
No offense, but why are you fero'n yourself and then talking about mana efficency and damage? hehe
"Bottom line though, my guild's dps is insane and Fero provides very little."
If your guild's dps is that good then you tossing a frost spear isn't doing a lot either. Fero in most cases is more mana efficent damage than our nukes.
" Doesn't Savagery still cost a dot? I don't farm much cash, keep in mind QVIC armour costs 10k, and I'm sure my guild won't reimburse me for a spell that lasts all of 6 mins. If Savagery didn't have the dot cost I'd probably start using it in addition to Fero. "
Yeah savagery does, but it's 10pp a cast and can make a decent differance if you are down some dps people or bard is LD and resists aren't max, etc. I don't run it full time, but I always have dots on me if I feel that it's needed. Also you mention you only fero 2 people. With AA/focus you can keep fero on 4 people. No need to start using savagery if you aren't even using fero on everyone that you can.
"Please keep in mind that only top beastlords have 5k+ mana."
Over the course of a raid session base mana pool doesn't matter that much. Mana regen is the key along with effects that lower mana cost and increase spell duration. Over a 2 hour period of time a 6k mana pool is only ~FT5 hehe and that's if you go from FM to OOM.
I use Fero for its resists and the fact it helps _my_ dps. I'd rather participate in melee and nuke then keep track of a stopwatch in order to keep Fero on 4 people. I would be OOM if I tried anyway and I'm close to the FT cap, again something only the top Beastlords achieve. If I wanted to be a buff bot I would have chosen to play a shaman. I can tell you, many beastlords I know resent this spell in its current form.
Do you have numbers showing Fero is more efficient then our nukes? ATK has diminishing returns and all the rogues and rangers in my guild surpassed the ATK cap ages ago. Consider that melee are constantly OOR, nukes are OOR much more rarely. You will have a tough sell to convince me Fero provides more benefit, _not_ efficiency, then the Trushar Frost and Frost Spear combo, especially with focus items which can be summoned. With an E'Ci item our nukes provide some very nice damage. Killing raid mobs is about dps, not efficiency.
Another point, much of the time fero is on a melee it is doing nothing. Why? because there is a good portion of time spent doing nothing on a raid. If I were to keep Fero on 4 people I would have to chain cast it in order to keep it up on more then one person because of its 2 min recast. If you want to talk efficiency this alone makes Fero a crap investment. There are times when the 600 mana cast provides 0 benefit because the guild has paused for 6 mins to rez and med.
This isn't to say I won't try to take advantage of it more. I could prolly keep it up on two people as well as myself. They'll have to keep me informed when it drops though, and I'm sure they won't do it in a timely fashion screwing themselves out of a round of Fero. Hmm, maybe I could make a macro to remind me when to cast the damn thing. Anyone know what the value of the /pause command is? Milliseconds?
I disagree on base mana pool having little meaning. Mana efficiency is for theory. The truth is, you come up to the Golem in the Barxt event and Barxt and you will use 6k mana nuking, dot'ing, healing and keeping your pet up. Mana pool is still a contributing factor for end game MOBs. In many encounters the guild will get mana to full before proceeding. I never mentioned efficiency, I hate not having mana to help burn mobs down.
Frankly, beastlords contribute very little to raids in the high end. Guess that goes for most classes. A top end guild can easily do without Beastlords, Mages, Bezerkers, and Knights. Beastlords are in these guilds, and I've been in 3 on two different servers, for SD. Given that, I still enjoy myself and play to have fun. Being a Fero bitch isn't my idea of fun.
Ooh, someone arguing with Tastian on issues that he's gone over in depth and with math and parses to back them up several times before!
*makes some popcorn and gets ready to watch some good action*
Game on,
Quote from: OneiromancerOoh, someone arguing with Tastian on issues that he's gone over in depth and with math and parses to back them up several times before!
*makes some popcorn and gets ready to watch some good action*
Game on,
Where are they? I was a statistician in my youth :D The only discussion of Fero's 'efficiency' were under lab conditions. Raids are not under lab conditions. Its incredibly easy to shoot holes in parses because they ignore 'real world' factors.
Of course this is ultimately about fun. I hate being a fero bitch. I'd rather melee and nuke. If you want to talk about the contribution a Beastlord can make on a raid and efficiency I'd suggest replacing Beastlord with a Rogue or Ranger.
Well, I believe the points would be more that Ferocity is better used on other melee dps and not yourself, even if they do have a higher ATK, it would still do them better. The resists are good on anyone though, of course.
I do know Tastian has been talking a lot recently about mana pool vs. mana regen, that's more what I was referring to. But you did "call him out" on the Ferocity numbers, so I'm sure he or someone else will supply those.
Game on,
I have no problem running 4 fero and 2 nukes/dots. An ui-time that either flashes or beeps every 2 minutes helps a lot or a rl-timer that does the same. Fero is a class defining spell as is SD or paragon and therefore we should do it.
Resists can be crucial and i dont only fero melee classes but certain other players as well, however i do use fero only on request since i dont like wasting mana on ppl that only complain about not having enough buff slots for other stuff.
Quote from: DummkopfI have no problem running 4 fero and 2 nukes/dots. An ui-time that either flashes or beeps every 2 minutes helps a lot or a rl-timer that does the same. Fero is a class defining spell as is SD or paragon and therefore we should do it.
Yes, and you have 6500+ mana and 18FT. That puts you at 86th for Beastlords on all servers according to EQ Rankings. Cool site your guild has btw.
With my piddly 5800 Mana I'm 8th on my server. If Fero cost a bit less and lasted 12 mins I'd be happy to hand it around. I find it amusing how people whom are Time geared forget how large the gap is between those who are Time geared and those who are not. I expect that most beastlords at 65 have less then 4k mana and less then 4FT. 600x4 = 2400 mana in 8 mins. These Beastlords will be OOM after two rounds of Fero for 8 peeps if they Fero 4, Nuke, SD and Slow.
A month ago this was my situation and I was in the top 20 beastlords for my server.
Now today: I'm just not sure where all my mana is going if you folks say you are not having trouble. I have mana preserv, high FT and SCR3. I'm at 50 mana almost all the time during xp groups and couldn't bother taking the time, let alone spend the mana, on fero. Groups I'm in earn, on average, 3 AA an hour in Kod'Taz. So its not stop pulling and I'm slower about half the time. I slow and kite adds.
As for raids we only do Time and Uqua. We get thru Time in under 6 hours and I admit I probably have the mana to comfortably do 3 people with Fero but no more. Again, if I wanted to be a buff bot I'd have rolled a Shaman. But seriously, with all the time in a raid in which nothing or too much is happening I don't see how Fero is that much better of an investment.
Uqua is a completely different story, you zone in and get hit with an AE that reduces your stats by 300 or so. Kills half my mana. 4 Fero's in 8 mins and I'm OOM. Period. This is a long, hectic, event where in healers and other casters die rather frequently and require SD quite often. I'm usually helping with slows too. There is an item you get to stop the AE's effects on you, but Rangers and Knights get before me. Once I do get the item or we turn off the AE I can start using Fero.
I can tell you Barxt and his Golem friend could care less how efficient your mana/dps ratio is or was on the way. You need to burn the Golem down and fast. That is the key to success in this event. I'm pretty sure you will be OOM if you start with 6k mana during this portion of the event.
But I'm willing to learn :D
Being a Fero-bitch is not fun and anyone whos says differently is .... well ..... has a messed up definition of fun. If buffing people is fun then they should reroll a shaman or enchanter to get all the fun they can handle :). I started out as a rogue and frankly would not be able to stand it if i wasn't playing a melee oriented class (which is what i feel beastlords are). But all the more power to you people who find enjoyment in buffing others, you definitely are unique and i won't knock anyone for the way they play their class. But i also don't think people should be telling other people how to play their class either and what to do with their mana and such.
Quote from: UrimBeing a Fero-bitch is not fun and anyone whos says differently is .... well ..... has a messed up definition of fun. If buffing people is fun then they should reroll a shaman or enchanter to get all the fun they can handle :). I started out as a rogue and frankly would not be able to stand it if i wasn't playing a melee oriented class (which is what i feel beastlords are). But all the more power to you people who find enjoyment in buffing others, you definitely are unique and i won't knock anyone for the way they play their class. But i also don't think people should be telling other people how to play their class either and what to do with their mana and such.
Well Urim, they're not. They've come up with some stats, that I could poke holes in, that point to a way of being more efficient per mana/dps. I find the information I've seen flawed. Fero is a terrible investment, imho, because of the amount of time in which the auto attack button is off.
However, if you have the mana and mana regen to keep Fero up and do other things its pretty cool and powerful. My contention is that in the overall scheme, Fero has very little advantage over just nuking. Especially for the vast majority of Beastlords who are happy to crack 4k mana and get a few FT.
"If you want to talk efficiency this alone makes Fero a crap investment. There are times when the 600 mana cast provides 0 benefit because the guild has paused for 6 mins to rez and med. "
You don't cast nukes on your pet do you? Or summon eyes of zomm and nuke them down during down time do you? If you are only using mana when it's needed why are you fero'n when it's not. Fero'n is something a beastlord can do that adds to others in the raid. You don't have to keep up on everyone all the time and you don't have to even chain cast. There are times where I have on 3 people, times when no one has, times when I've been cycling it between rogues and shift it over to rangers as the situation calls for. You have 600 mana to spend, you spend it. If you choose to nuke then you drop a Trushars frost and a frost spear or whatever. Or you can drop fero on a melee and raise his damage over the next 9(ish) minutes. I don't have fero on 4 people from start to finish of every raid and I don't suggest others do. However, you said...
"This spell line could really boost a beastlord's value on raids if the mana cost was reduced to 500 for 12 mins and a strike-thru modifier added to it.
I Fero two people on raids, myself and a rogue or ranger. I refuse to become a Fero bitch."
Now here you are asking for changes to a spell that you aren't even using to it's full potential. Seriously this is like beastlords asking for a 2k nuke because they don't want to mem/cast their 2 highest end ones. If you don't want to be a fero-dealer you don't have to be, it's your char you play them how you want. However, when you are currently using 50% of a spells potential (less since it's on you instead of another pure melee hehe) then it's foolish to complain about it imo.
"Kills half my mana. 4 Fero's in 8 mins and I'm OOM."
FT - 0
MC - 0
SD - 9
VoQ - 18
Pot9 - 9
Bard - 22
Now with ZERO FT, NO points in MC on a raid you still have a min mana regen of 58. That's a pretty low number as it ignores any FT, any MC, any mod rods, any paragons (your's or someone else's). Now 58 mana per tick is 580 mana per minute. Even just by having the mana pres item you mentioned you now have even mana to fero someone every minute. The spell has a built in 2 minute refresh timer that means you can't burn your mana any faster than that. Base mana pool or not. If you have 600 mana you can cast fero, 2 mins later when it pops up you have now regen'd over 1k mana, fero again, 2 mins later, fero again. It's NOT that hard to maintain mana wise. Now slows, SD'n, healing (ok not so much in GoD lol), and everything else takes mana too. However, mana regen matters with fero because it has the built in refresh timer. You aren't a wizard with white fire or SoS or whatever you can't chain cast fero as soon as it pops. You HAVE to wait 2 minutes to recast it and during that time you WILL regen enough mana to use it. Heck from the sounds of it your guild has lots of downtime so you'd even get to med for an extra 20(ish) mana per tick. 8P
Now if you claim you don't want to cast fero, that's cool it's your call. If you want to claim that in your opinion fero doesn't add enough to be worth casting then again that's your call. Although one wonders how the spell is of value on you and ONE rogue/ranger, but not others hehe. If you just want to say "schit it's MY spell, it's MY mana, I'll reap the benefits" THAT is valid too. However, you cannot claim to me that you need a 6k+ mana pool and FT18 and everything else to sustain it.
I'm not telling anyone how to play their char and I go out of my way NOT to make direct suggestions. However, when someone claims something that is simply wrong I will point it out.
"Again, if I wanted to be a buff bot I'd have rolled a Shaman. "
That is absolutely your perogitive, however you can't complain about something that you simply aren't choosing to use to its and your potential. You can fero yourself and 1 other and that's cool, but you can't then turn around and complain about the spell or about efficency or anything else as you are doing things that artifically lean things in your direction.
Quote from: Tastian"If you want to talk efficiency this alone makes Fero a crap investment. There are times when the 600 mana cast provides 0 benefit because the guild has paused for 6 mins to rez and med. "
You don't cast nukes on your pet do you? Or summon eyes of zomm and nuke them down during down time do you? If you are only using mana when it's needed why are you fero'n when it's not. Fero'n is something a beastlord can do that adds to others in the raid. You don't have to keep up on everyone all the time and you don't have to even chain cast. There are times where I have on 3 people, times when no one has, times when I've been cycling it between rogues and shift it over to rangers as the situation calls for. You have 600 mana to spend, you spend it. If you choose to nuke then you drop a Trushars frost and a frost spear or whatever. Or you can drop fero on a melee and raise his damage over the next 9(ish) minutes. I don't have fero on 4 people from start to finish of every raid and I don't suggest others do. However, you said...
"This spell line could really boost a beastlord's value on raids if the mana cost was reduced to 500 for 12 mins and a strike-thru modifier added to it.
I Fero two people on raids, myself and a rogue or ranger. I refuse to become a Fero bitch."
Now here you are asking for changes to a spell that you aren't even using to it's full potential. Seriously this is like beastlords asking for a 2k nuke because they don't want to mem/cast their 2 highest end ones. If you don't want to be a fero-dealer you don't have to be, it's your char you play them how you want. However, when you are currently using 50% of a spells potential (less since it's on you instead of another pure melee hehe) then it's foolish to complain about it imo.
"Kills half my mana. 4 Fero's in 8 mins and I'm OOM."
FT - 0
MC - 0
SD - 9
VoQ - 18
Pot9 - 9
Bard - 22
Now with ZERO FT, NO points in MC on a raid you still have a min mana regen of 58. That's a pretty low number as it ignores any FT, any MC, any mod rods, any paragons (your's or someone else's). Now 58 mana per tick is 580 mana per minute. Even just by having the mana pres item you mentioned you now have even mana to fero someone every minute. The spell has a built in 2 minute refresh timer that means you can't burn your mana any faster than that. Base mana pool or not. If you have 600 mana you can cast fero, 2 mins later when it pops up you have now regen'd over 1k mana, fero again, 2 mins later, fero again. It's NOT that hard to maintain mana wise. Now slows, SD'n, healing (ok not so much in GoD lol), and everything else takes mana too. However, mana regen matters with fero because it has the built in refresh timer. You aren't a wizard with white fire or SoS or whatever you can't chain cast fero as soon as it pops. You HAVE to wait 2 minutes to recast it and during that time you WILL regen enough mana to use it. Heck from the sounds of it your guild has lots of downtime so you'd even get to med for an extra 20(ish) mana per tick. 8P
Now if you claim you don't want to cast fero, that's cool it's your call. If you want to claim that in your opinion fero doesn't add enough to be worth casting then again that's your call. Although one wonders how the spell is of value on you and ONE rogue/ranger, but not others hehe. If you just want to say "schit it's MY spell, it's MY mana, I'll reap the benefits" THAT is valid too. However, you cannot claim to me that you need a 6k+ mana pool and FT18 and everything else to sustain it.
I'm not telling anyone how to play their char and I go out of my way NOT to make direct suggestions. However, when someone claims something that is simply wrong I will point it out.
"Again, if I wanted to be a buff bot I'd have rolled a Shaman. "
That is absolutely your perogitive, however you can't complain about something that you simply aren't choosing to use to its and your potential. You can fero yourself and 1 other and that's cool, but you can't then turn around and complain about the spell or about efficency or anything else as you are doing things that artifically lean things in your direction.
But I do use it. I said I keep it up on two people during an entire raid. It would be infinitely more usable given my suggestion. You're saying its not? 12 mins is still not a long time and makes the spell a heck of a lot more efficient. IMHO you are not contributing anything. I don't use it to its full potential? 600 mana for 6.5 mins is insane. You yourself don't use to its full potential and seem to change your tune. First you say you keep on 4 people now you change the story. In order to keep it on 4 people you have to chain cast it, i.e. cast it whenever it is up. Which is every 2 mins. I have a lot to be concerned with on a raid where each death results in an add without worrying about such a timer. Its unrealistic and certainly un-fun. Are you saying I have to use the spell like you in order to make suggestions to improve it?
As for downtime, yes in uqua there is a bit of down time but there is tremendous pressure to keep going because its a timed event and has a timed script within it. Not sure if you've done it or not.
All I've seen on this forum are numbers thrown out in a lab experiment.
As for mana regen during uqua you will go OOM if you cast on 4 people with the AE effect. Period. Mana is cut in half for me because my WIS is reduced from 305 to 1. You will go OOM quickly in uqua with the AE effect if you use Fero. That is from my personal experience in the zone.
(hmmm I pushed some button so if its a double post sorry)
I was hoping this for GoD to start but ,I was wanting to see more defensive AA's /pet shield and pet /shielding me are ones already suggested and I hope they look at getting those either working or as a usable AA/skill/disc
I much Prefer the melee side of the beastlord and I am hoping for that to be worked on further. Monks get avoidance boosts, perhaps we could work on blocks or something? just a thought.
An AA to boost 2hb dps would be a nice idea alowing quads or something?
HP boost to pet AA?
Frenzied Burnout AA for pet? (low refresh/reuse time does 1.5 times damage)
My pet just doesn't live long enough on raids.
something a bit off topic, I was also hoping that with GoD we got some new tomes rather than spells, I certainly hope we get something like that with the release of OoW. nothing overpowering, but a special move like clobber or something a BL backstab only works with 2hb from behind, does say a slight increase in dmg but stuns mob for 0.5sec? of course it can miss be mitigated or resisted but works on mobs up to 70? Again a low reuse time would be cool for that.
Anyway dreams are free.
Fibbs
this is about AAs, SCRM should help fero duration a bit, I wouldnt mind a long lasting more expensive fero either anyways back to AAs,
like:
pet affinity 2 could allow any buff / benefical spell casted on us land on warder too (I mean single target buffs, clickies, direct heals)
"But I do use it. I said I keep it up on two people during an entire raid. It would be infinitely more usable given my suggestion. You're saying its not? 12 mins is still not a long time and makes the spell a heck of a lot more efficient. IMHO you are not contributing anything. I don't use it to its full potential? 600 mana for 6.5 mins is insane."
Two people isn't it's max potential, end of story. With AA's/focus/etc you can keep fero on 4 people with a bit of room for error. Fero does cost a lot, but it's also an extremely powerful spell. Of course it'd be more useable, SD would be better if it's duration were raised too( really want this to last long enough to allow for MGB to refresh!! lol). If fero went to a 12 min duration base then I'd be able to fero ~9 people during a raid.
"You yourself don't use to its full potential and seem to change your tune. First you say you keep on 4 people now you change the story. In order to keep it on 4 people you have to chain cast it, i.e. cast it whenever it is up. Which is every 2 mins."
This is one of the big things I think people miss with fero. It's not an all or nothing type spell. Fero is a means of converting mana into damage, in this case through another person (or yourself). You don't "have" to click a nuke everytime it pops up or a dot and you don't have to click fero everytime it pops. However, everytime fero pops and I have the mana where we are in a situation where we are going to be actively fighting fero is a very good use of mana in terms of damage/efficency/etc. I don't fero people during downtime, I'll break a cycle, I'll change it between people, I'll die, etc. You don't have to have fero on people from start of raid to finish, but if you have the mana and are thinking about dropping a couple nukes and see that fero is up and you are clearing mobs then fero is a very viable option.
"Are you saying I have to use the spell like you in order to make suggestions to improve it? "
No, but you can't artifically skew things in your favor, and ask for things based upon those situations/circumstances. I mean what if I started saying beastlords take too much damage solo and mentioned I only slow half the mobs I fight. Let's say fero get's boosted to a 12 min duration and 1 min refresh since the stats didn't change it's still a useless investment manawise in your opinion and I'll simply choose to only fero 2 people still instead of the 9 or so I could. Can I now ask for it to be beefed up again? You are literally putting down a spell that you aren't using to it's potential and asking for a change that will make it easier for you to do something you can already do. The problem is spells need to be balanced and by making it easier for you to fero 3? 4? however many people you would you allow me and dumm and others to fero ~9 people.
I agree fero has a short duration. I personally want SCRM above most AAs, I personally woud like to see the new fero with a base duration ~10 mins (possibly even at the expense of a longer refresh so it couldn't be maintained on more people), but I'm not saying that because I'm failing to use the spell in ways it can already be used. I don't want a longer duration so I can fero more people, I can already fero as many people as I think we should. It's not just what you say, but the motivation behind it. Just like I said before there are a ton of different reasons you could have given (or none at all) and I wouldn't have said a word. If you simply said "Go SCRM" I'd have nod'd in agreement. However, wanting a change to allow you to do something you can already do makes no sense lol.
"All I've seen on this forum are numbers thrown out in a lab experiment. "
Throw up some numbers yourself then please. I enjoy being proven wrong more than any person you'll ever meet. Makes me feel like I learned something. However, multiple people have parsed multple different situations across multiple classes across multiple boards and guess what, people still use for fero. You yourself fero ONE ranger/rogue. If you felt fero was useless you wouldn't fero them. Is it always the same ranger/rogue? Are they naturally the lowest atk/geared rogue you have or the best? If you ever fero one rogue one time and not another why is that? Don't you see that your very actions are a contradiction to what you are claiming.
"If you want to talk efficiency this alone makes Fero a crap investment."
If it's a crap investment then why are you using it?
"I use Fero for its resists and the fact it helps _my_ dps."
Are you the lowest resist person on your raids? If the spell helps your dps then it'd obviously help others dps even more. Like I said if you claimed it's your spell, you get it, that's cool, you want to claim you don't think it's worth the mana I'd probably let it slide and not throw parses and threads down your throat, but you can't say it's worthless, and use it on yourself, you can't claim you want a longer duration so you can do something you can already do, but just aren't doing.
"Mana is cut in half for me because my WIS is reduced from 305 to 1."
What is your mana regen? lol there are spots and mobs where mana regen get's mauled and keeping fero up then is actually a reasonable arguement, but I already showed you that someone with just basic raid buffs, no FT, no mod rod, no paragon, no MC AA can easily sustain clicking fero everytime it pops.
If you want to throw up parses showing that some of the people in your raid don't gain enough from fero, or that your uptime is so staggered that it's not worth using that's cool. The thread got offtrack though and I'd like to see this go back to just an OoW AA discussion.
Oh yeah, th ability to name my pet would be cool. I'd buy that!
Well im wayyy less than 5.8k mana and can very comftably keep fero up on 3 ppl,melee and DoT,in fact theres very few raids I dont do so and once ya get into the habit of it its second nature,not a chore.
Anyone know how effective spell casting subtelty (sp) is for casters and if it woulld eventually be useful for bsts to have ?
I know some like the ability to get high aggro, but I am on of those who would like a an overall reduction in spellaggro, but I dont know how effective SCS is.
I would just like to see upgrades to what aas we already have
an upgrade to ALL the archtype aas:
Healing Adept
Healing Gift: Know we already have extra levels in PoP, but I like to heal
Spell Casting Fury: We nuke, we might not deserve these at level 65. But 66-70.
Spell Casting Reinforcement: Maybe 1 more level at like 67 and POSSIBLY another at 70
Combat Agility
Combat Fury
Combat Stability
Improved Natural Durability
Mass Group Buff
Paragon of Spirit: Maybe a decrease in reuse time on paragon, a decrease in use time on MGB, or an increase in potency of paragon
Mend Companion: maybe a complete heal
Body and Mind Rejuvenation: Make a second, third, and possibly even fourth level. Not too much to ask for an increase in mana regen post 65
Hobble of Spirits: Make a second level that either roots or works w/ other pet procs
Frenzy of Spirit:
Beastial Frenzy
Suspend Minion: level 3 might work over zones or hold a 3rd pet or something
Weapon Affinity
Bestial Alignment
Feral Swipe
Warder's Fury
Warder's Alacrity
Sinister Strikes
Also I would like to see more pet specific aas. Much like our archtype aas.
Adding these at costs similar to GoD will finally allow beastlords and other classes not to be carbon coppies of others at their level.
Some beasts will be better healers, some better melee, some casters, some pet clerics, and some might just want to run around looking like their pet. Beastlords will finally have the chance to go back to the way they were a year ago when certain people had a certain play style.
Just what I think
Haven't gone through the whole thread so this was probably already brought up but here it goes. I'm sure better names could be thought up but im just not that creative.
Warder Shielding - 5 levels - Cost: 10/8/6/4/2
Each level gives pet the equivalent of 2% shielding.
Warder Durability - 5 levels - Cost: 10/8/6/4/2
Each levels give pet the equivalent of 10% Spell Shield.
The reason for the cost of the levels going from highest to lowest is because the greater difference is gotten at the beginning. Going from 0% pet shielding to 2% shielding is an astronomical increase. Going from 2% to 4% doubles the benefit, going from 4% to 6% is only an increase of 1.5, and so forth, benefit is always decreasing which is why AA cost should be decreasing. I think all our AAs that are like this should be organized like this.
Quote from: UrimBeing a Fero-bitch is not fun and anyone whos says differently is .... well ..... has a messed up definition of fun. If buffing people is fun then they should reroll a shaman or enchanter to get all the fun they can handle :). I started out as a rogue and frankly would not be able to stand it if i wasn't playing a melee oriented class (which is what i feel beastlords are). But all the more power to you people who find enjoyment in buffing others, you definitely are unique and i won't knock anyone for the way they play their class. But i also don't think people should be telling other people how to play their class either and what to do with their mana and such.
I enjoy the challenge of keeping a 4 target fero chain going constantly during a raid as well as taking SD requests. I just see it as playing my class to it's fullest potential.
Here's an idea I thought of:
Sentry (3 levels): A beastlord's warder becomes more protective of its master, and at higher levels will protect its master's allies.
Level 1: warder will always /shield beastlord when beastlord's health drops to 60%.
Level 2: increases range and duration of warder's /shield, gives access to command /pet shield <player> where warder will shield that player whenever that player drops to 60% health.
Level 3: further increases range and duration of warder's /shield, gives access to command /pet shield group where warder will shield any group member (including the beastlord) that drops to 60%, (but will only shield one person at a time of course).
The warder will follow the normal rules on the reuse of shield, (I don't know if it's a set duration or based on level or what).
Seeing as how /shield is a Warrior command and our pets are said to be of the Warrior mold, I dont see why this would be unreasonable.
Well like many other people I would like to see limited upgrades for some archtype abilities.
1) ID/LR/ND etc
2) I would like to see upgraded dd crits.
3) More double ATK %
4) At least 1 pet aa. A general defensive aa that increases avoidance significantly, maybe a mixture of mitigation too. Also an aa that sees substantial increase in pet ATK as well.
5) Pet Afinity 2 that gives pet benefit from archetype aa's (CA,ND,CS,CF and SCF)
6) an increase to pet crit aa.
7) hastened Paragon.
Shere Khaan
Quote from: kizhI'd like:
Pet Obedience: (Requires Pet hold)
Causes the pet to attack the mob you send it after and ONLY that mob. Warder would resume its 'hold' state after the mob died or you backed it off. Nothing I hate more than mashing pet hold & pet back off after every single mob on a raid!
This is primarily what I'd like to have. Pet hold is great, but in a lot of situations I don't have the control I need over my warder.
All the other ideas in Kizh's post are great, too, actually. I'd like an extension of current archetype and pop ability aa's that are actually functional, as opposed to stupid stuff like turning me into a giant tiger.
Quote from: LigaSeeing as how /shield is a Warrior command and our pets are said to be of the Warrior mold, I dont see why this would be unreasonable.
/nod
And it seems like it would be something unique. We only get one pet aa besides the generic ones that everyone gets, so I thought this would add some nice flavor. Plus our pets are kinda bland sometimes (note, I'm not saying they are weak, I'm just saying they don't have any "cool tricks").
Quote from: CillianFVQuote from: CaaliHow about an AA that sends a portion of the incoming damage (~30%) to our warders. Like the warrior's shield ability but clickable for about 30s with a timer fo say 10 mins or so. That along with PoS should give us a decent chance to survive more than 5s in GoD.
This idea interests me. Our pets already have the innate ability to use the /shield command, the problem is that they rarely use it as we have no control over when they use it. Perhaps they can add an AA along the lines of Pet Discipline that adds a new pet command, /pet shield me. You could possibly even add a second level, /pet shield target.
For whatever it's worth, I'd like to chime in on this one too. My understanding is that the pet's Shield ability does not reset after use. So once we have the zoning pets, spontaneous pet Shield activations will be as rare as hen's teeth.
When BSTs were first announced, I always assumed that "fighting alongside the pet" would mean we could share damage, rather than me taking all the hits on my leather-covered skin. What bugs me even more is in groups where the regenning (and expendable) pet leaves the fight with not a scratch and the PC's have gotten creamed. It just seems like such a waste.
My guess is that Sony would have less heartburn with giving us some efficiency instead of raid-exploitable power. I'd be happy having the pet take a random 3% (or whatever) of the hits per level of the skill, and just have the option toggled instead of on a timer. Maybe just tie it in with the Pet Taunt command.
Since (apparently) Sony can't figure out a way to make pet aggro work properly within melee range, I think this would be a convenient to use, (hopefully) simple to implement and non-exploitable way to help the pet carry its fair share of the burden while it's meleeing next to PC's.
EDIT: That is, the pet would have a 3% (or whatever) chance of taking each hit - melee or spell - from the MOB that the pet is currently attacking.