Well I did a search on this and couldnt find anything so thought I would post to get your opinions and thoughts.
From all that I have read on these boards a consensus seems to be that your best interests may be to get a few beneficial AA's at 51 -- like run 3 -- a couple more at 61 and then wait to do most AA work until 65.
How is the new level 70 cap going to change everyone's feelings about this? Now, I am an inexperience player -- hell I am only 43 -- but my plan pre OoW was to follow the 51 --> 61 --> 65 path. Now I am wondering if I may as well just AA throughout the 50's and build them up.
Seems to me that the new level cap may change the picture a bit . Based on the number of 65 players out there right now, I would imagine it will be very hard for someone to get to lvl 70, have less than 0 AA's (ok, a bit of hyperbole here) and find anyone willing to group ......
For those of you at 65, what is your feeling on this? I assume that there is an implicit understanding that a lvl 65 would be working on AA's and would not be "shunned" if they are not up to speed in AA's but at least could play their class. But what about 70?
I know I won't be near 65 for quite some time -- probably months after OOW and just in time for everyone to bolt to EQ2 :) -- but I was just curious about this.
Even now you have 65s without their baron title. The answer to this will vary from person to person as usual. Me personally I would AA at whatever level I felt I needed to so that I could effectively contribute for where I was hunting. Originally I AA'd at 60 some, then 62 well I worked on getting new spells, then a lot at 65. I honestly can't imagine going into a group at 65 without paragon, CA/LR, 65 slow, etc. However, some do it. I also can't imagine trying to tank at 70 without some of the defensive AAs. I'm definitely someone that would rather be a very well geared/powerful 60 beastlord than an under geared 65 one. Some will say just level then AA comes faster, but *shrugs* as usual hehe.
Quote from: TastianI'm definitely someone that would rather be a very well geared/powerful 60 beastlord than an under geared 65 one. Some will say just level then AA comes faster, but *shrugs* as usual hehe.
Thanks Tast, info like that is what I was looking for. One quick (newbie) question tho -- how exactly do AA's come faster with lvls? I would assume that AA xp works the same as lvl xp, i.e. a DB mob at 65 would give less AA xp if the same mob were killed at 65 and also conned DB. To make myself clear I'll use a low lvl example..... An orc pawn would con db to a lvl 3 and give maybe 3% xp while it would con db to a lvl 5 and give around .75-1% xp. AA xp works the same, correct? Just diverted to a different xp table?
Do AA's "come faster" at 65 due to the strength of the spells between 60-65? Yes a true newbie question and I think I already know the answer, but want to make sure.
As it stands, I am planning on extending the xp grind from 50-60 anyway -- maybe split 50/50 between AA and xp to start and see how it goes....
An AA point is a set amount of exp. Call it 1000 if you need for this example. If you kill a DB at 51st level it's probably around 40th level and yields say 10 xp. However, if you are 65 and kill a DB mob it's likely around 55 or so that means it yields say 20 xp. Those are numbers for the sake of not using variables that most people hate lol they aren't accurate, but give you an idea. The spells can help AA come faster to, but basically it's where you hunt and what you kill. I used to get 1% AA per kill around 60. Now at 65 I can kill a mob and get 14% AA on a kill. That of course ignores kill rate and several other factors, but the point is the higher level the mob the faster you get exp. Most people will make AA faster at 65 killing DB trash in a group than at 60 simply because the trash is higher level. It, of course, will depend what you are killing and how good the group is and several other factors, but it gives you an idea.
AAXP is calculated based on the experience it takes to get from level 51 to 52. So in general it doesn't matter what level you are, if you are set to 100% AAXP you get the same amount of AAXP from the exact same mob. Now, there are some other issues...such as an exp penalty for killing a light blue mob, or an exp bonus for a higher conning mob (and then there's the "high con bonus" that I won't bother getting into). But in general if there's a mob that's, say, dark blue to both a level 55 and a level 65 character, they will get the exact same AAXP from it. Since the level 65 can kill that mob much faster, they get a better AAXP rate.
As to when to start doing AAs...well, I was one of those that hit 65 without a title. I had 2 AAs...one from the PoJ trials and another from random AAing during raids or farming lblues (just wanted to see something move, hehe). I don't raid much if at all...and to this day I still group with people who don't know what Paragon is, so I didn't feel the loss of that so much. To me, getting the spells in the 60's were much more important than AAs...the 62/64 pets, Celerity, Rellic, SD, Ferocity, and most especially our 65% slow. It's my humble opinion that the 65% slow is the best reason for beastlords to hit 65 before AAs...it's what gets me groups, not Paragon. Similar to wizards hitting 65 to get Strike of Solusek, their 3k nuke. Whereas other classes don't have such a huge boost at 65, so they don't lose so much by stopping and AAing.
So, not really intending to argue with anyone, just presenting my thoughts on the matter. I was lucky to get many of my spells very cheaply...I always had all of my next level's spells before I hit that level. When OoW comes out, I'm not planning on hitting 66 until I find out how easy it is to get the new spells...or until the prices on them come down. (It will also depend on what Shaman spells we get at 66.) I'll follow the progression of 100% normal exp until I am close to dinging, then if I don't have my spells I'll do 100% AAXP until I get them, then I'll ding when appropriate. This could change if there's some other innate abilities we get upon levelling...such as increased regen or another improved damage table...but we'll have to wait and see.
Game on,
Quote from: OneiromancerAAXP is calculated based on the experience it takes to get from level 51 to 52.
Ahah, then it is a bit different than I had thought. Now I see the reason why so many people advise to get to 60's or so to start doing AA's..... for some reason I missed this little piece of information even after having read the quides on this site.
Having played RPG's for a long time I understand the graduated xp tables and now have a much better understanding of how the AA xp system works. Not to open my mouth to have a bunch of flames stuffed down it, but it is rather skewed towards the higher levels(and I can understand why). I wonder if SOE is planning on changing the AAXP to work more like the leadership XP. I have done some leadership xp'ing already and that bar moves slowly.... Or perhaps the leadership xp is designed after the AAXP -- i.e. you need enough xp to level from 51 to 52 to gain one leadership point, no matter what level you are....
AA's are restricted by level anyways. So at 52 or 51 you cant really get the good ones anyways. Imagine having paragon at 51 :)
QuoteI honestly can't imagine going into a group at 65 without paragon, CA/LR, 65 slow, etc.
I may not agree on this... I dont have any CA/LR... I from time to time get tells for joining groups from the ppl I grouped before whenever I am online. However, I agree that 65 slow is a must being a bst. Paragon comes after. And other abilities will just make you better. But most likely, your skills and play style are most likely what ppl judge you a good/sucky bst.
BTW, when I group with other so-called uber bsts and seeing them not really doing a thing, or just sending pet out and saying "I have FULL pet aa's". I feel disgusted.
I went all out for XP until I dinged 65. For me, getting the 65 slow and the 64 pet and ferocity was far more valuable than any single AA could have been.
To the original poster's question of what will happen when we all have 5 more levels to ding through, it all depends on a lot of factors:
For example:
* How difficult are the 66-70 spells to get?
* Do the new OoW AAs require you to be 66+?
* How much time will Epic 1.5 and 2.0 take away from farming XP?
From what I've seen of the list of 66-70 spells on Lucy, nothing really leaps out at me as "must haves". Sure, new pets are nice, but unlike 65 slow, nothing seems to be "make-or-break" worthy, and certainly no new dimensions are added to the class with the spells. Add to that the difficulty with which getting the spells might entail (rare drops or long quests) and leveling solely to get the new spells doen't hold much value.
Likewise, If the new AAs are available to people under 66, I don't inherently have a need to level.
On the epic front, one of the things about working your epic is that it is a HUGE timesink. Lots of running around farming this or that for ultra-rare drops. Endless camping for some mob to pop to do a turnin or spawn a battle. However, a lot of people will do precisely this to be as quick as possible to get their upgrades. This will slow down 66-70 leveling as well. With all the competition that will exist for rare spawns, it will be even slower for people. I can only hope that Sony will put a lot of epic fights into instanced spawns that don't require endless camping, but I know that won't happen.
For me, unless I see substantial reason to "Go XP" (which I'm not seeing now based on the proposed spell lists), I plan to put a lot more work into AAs to flesh out some of the shortcomings of this character class. Once I get to the 100-150 AA range, then I can rethink that, but right now I don't see the need.
*shrug*
If 2 beastlords got to 60 with no AA, then Beastie A went full AA and Beastie B went full level exp, how many AAs would Beastie A have by the time Beastie B hit 65?
I suspect 40-50 AA.
Assume they use identical gear.
Beastie B at 65 with a full spellbook but no AA would be considerably more powerful than Beastie A at level 60 with 50 AA.
Even without the 65 slow and fero Beastie B would be more powerful.
At this stage Beastie B starts doing AA and Beastie A starts working towards level 65.
By the time Beastie A hits level 65, Beastie B has 75 AA cause he was using a more powerful toon the whole time and Beastie A is 25 AA behind.
Thats the essence of the matter.
P.S. I plucked the number 40-50 AA out of my arse. Can anyone calculate it?
This may change if the amount of exp needed to level from 65 to 70 is truely massive. The amount needed may be the equivalent of 200 or 300 AA. Which may make AAs a more attractive alternative. But then again, the amount of time to get to 70 will mean you should be able to track down all your spells by then. :roll:
I mention CA/LR because it makes a noticeable differance. I've always stepped up to OT or even MT at times. Some beastlords will simply get splatted in spots if they don't have the AAs/gear. This will be more of an issue at 70 as "normal" mobs will likely be hitting over 1k a shot. It's not just the AAs though as it is the extra time you put into your character and gear upgrades you get as well.
The problem with the AA/Level discussion is it assumes too many different things. You don't always get a group right away. In some cases you can solo much faster. I was actually making AA faster at 62 then I was when I first hit 65 because of a few factors. Also some people have long term memories. I still can remember a PoV outter group turning away a 60th level uber played shaman friend of mine with full spell book and many AAs to get some 65 shaman that had ZERO 62+ spells, had 3 AAs and not a clue how to play his class. Sometimes your level will get you a group, but your play and ability definitely stand out. I know a few low 60 beastlords I take to LDoNs with me just because I like their play style and their company and they are "better" than some of the 65s I know.
Spells are a big issue too. When PoP first came out and likely when OoW first hits spells won't be all over the place. Even 61/62 spells used to fetch many k worth of pp when they first came out. I still know some beastlords that don't have fero/sha's atm and they are almost always up for 20k or less in the bazaar. Like I said, for me it was more important to always feel like I was atleast on par or better than most other beastlords my level. I didn't ever want to say "i'm sorry I don't have that buff" or "Sorry I don't have that AA" or whatever.
I see no points for someone to rush tough places when they know they can't do their "required job" in that places. When a BST needs to be MT in a group, I am pretty sure in most situations, replacing the BST with a tank will just make the group more efficient, why not doing so? Offtanking, yes, required job for BST, but if you look at my magelo (my crappy gears and aa's), imagine how I can use skills to offset my crappy gears and aa's to offtank a mob when required to.
Sorry again I am not a native English people... and no offense if it seems to have some... I am not a flaming people =P
Quote from: bhamBeastie B at 65 with a full spellbook but no AA would be considerably more powerful than Beastie A at level 60 with 50 AA.
I would estimate that a level 63 BST with 50AA would be about equal to a level 65 BST with 0 AA. Assume you are soloing: the 65 slow alone decreases the damage you take by 30% beyond what the previous slow does. This is nearly equivalent to maxing all of the defensive AA's. (This is using the simplest example of soloing; if you are grouped, the odds you would use it are lessened, but then the benefits are greatly increased if you do use it.) This doesn't count all the "hidden" benefits of leveling - like improved resists, spells stick better, etc.
I heard someone suggest that you should need a certain minimum number of AA's (like maybe 30) before you gain each level after 65. I think this would be a nice compromise.
I don't take offense to almost anything and I remember you aren't a native english speaker. Kinda sad to believe that I am and still speak it so poorly. A beastlord tanking content can really boost the efficency of some groups. If you have a beastlord as MT of say a normal LDoN then you have slow covered, you have MT covered and you already have 1 dps class. You add a healer and you are gtg (maybe a CC but that depends hehe). If you just remove the beastlord for a plate tank you lose slow, now you have to add another slower if you didn't already have an enc or a shaman as healer.
This is mostly for content that is easily tanked and not high dps. Some beastlords still die too quickly. I remember I used to tank tactics groups for awhile and people were surprised a beastlord tanked it so well. Beastlords don't take damage well compared to other classes, but when fighting content we are geared/aa'd ahead of we can totally change the group makeup. I actually recall one beastlord that didn't slow until ~80% of a mobs life because they had no defensive AAs, they had low defense, and if they got aggro they'd die so quickly it wasn't even funny. Now obviously this isn't just a case of AA, but that was part of it. Really though it depends what point in the game you are at too. Like I said everyone has their own twist on what worked for them, which is good because beastlords are a very versitle class.
hehe Tactian, you didn't get my idea. It is a fact that BST with more aa's > less aa's. But I think that's not what we should be talking about. I meant skills can offset some aa's in many of the grouping situations.
Regarding the slowing at 80%... I slow mobs right when they inc, I only get a hit or 2 in some minor cases (if I know I get hits, /PoS), mostly I won't get a single hit. It's just the skills how to let tanks get aggro.
I am not talking about tipt, vxed tho. I won't live long there until I got the right aa's and gears. Unless I am in a need to get flagged for TK, I won't choose that places to exp and ruin my group... I will simply tell them I am not good enough.
"I meant skills can offset some aa's in many of the grouping situations. "
Yeah I know, but I just hrmmmmm take skills for granted for want of a better term. You can improve your skill, but only to a point. If I'm playing my 65 beastlord or I'm playing my 55 beastlord I'm simply doing more with the 65. Some people are very bad players, some are very good players, most fall in the middle though and in that middle gear/AA/etc is something that can make the differance. Sometimes a player has the skill, but not the power if you know what I mean. For instance awareness and reflexes can get you to change target to an add and get it slowed fast and start taking it off the healer, but if you don't have the AAs then all you did was buy the cleric 2 seconds. Of course, if you are afk then the cleric dies quietly and you don't even know it hehe. Just saying that I know what you mean about skill, but sometimes the skill itself isn't enough as you need the power to make it actually mean something. Going to stop now because I feel like I'm argueing with you and I'm really not trying to hehe. I swear it's the SoE boards 8( Seems like everyone hates everyone there lol.
Quote from: Toghat
For those of you at 65, what is your feeling on this? I assume that there is an implicit understanding that a lvl 65 would be working on AA's and would not be "shunned" if they are not up to speed in AA's but at least could play their class. But what about 70?
.
I'd imagine the new scheme of things, assuming OoW spells are as hard to get as PoP (as opposed to GoD), would go something like this:
1-51 - EXP
51 - Stop, run3
51-65 - EXP
65 - Paragon, MGB, Possibly some Defensive
65-70 - EXP
70 - AA's
Levels will always be more important than AA's. Plus the higher level you are, the more AA's you can get. People will just adjust their conception of what you "should have" at 65.
Quote from: KjinQuote from: Toghat
51 - Stop, run3
This doesn't make sense to me as a Beastlord. We get SoW...SoShrew is tough to get (since it's in Guk) but Pack Shrew is in Mistmoore, easily the most popular LDoN location at lower levels. I had enough points for Pack Shrew (72 I think) before I made 44, the level you can use it at. (And I got SoShrew after my first Guk, at 65, and I still use it on pets and low level guildies indoors.) I couldn't imagine having to get level 52 4 times, basically, just to be able to run slightly slower than I can buff myself at any time. For a non-speed-enhancing class, perhaps...but as a Beastlord that really boggles my mind. Exp wasn't so fast at 51 that I'd want to do it over and over again. I definitely think it should wait for a few levels at least--until 55, say, when one could get a PoV/PoS group and actually watch the exp flow quickly.
And yeah, I know that there are always going to be crazy emergency situations, like your SoW gets debuffed while you're running through the Hole or something like that...oh well, crap happens. :twisted:
Game on,
Quote from: KjinLevels will always be more important than AA's. Plus the higher level you are, the more AA's you can get. People will just adjust their conception of what you "should have" at 65.
Hmm well let me think about this for a minute. Let's say that the amount of xp to go from 51 to 52 is the amount of xp required to gain one AA(which was established that it is). Now let's take a look at the level difference from 51 to 70 -- 19 levels. Now I know it's not completely accurate, but think about the power difference between lvl 1 and lvl 20.... I wonder whether or not by level 70 AA xp becomes almost too easy..... I imagine someone could argue that you could xp to 70 and then cakewalk through AA's if you wanted (granted it would be a bit boring and you would miss part of the game, but you could). Now I don't mean that the actual earning of xp would be easier, but basically the xp per kill of a db at lvl 70 would result in quite a bit more AA XP than a DB at 60 or even 65..... Hmmmm...
I, for one, like the idea I read earlier and am reconsidering my original AA plans based on it. I had completely forgotten that spells get a bit harder to get (i.e. you can't buy em all anymore) in the higher levels, and I am one who likes to have their spells in advance or at the level when they are usable. So I think I will try the AA while getting spells method -- in which one AA's until they get all of the spells they need for their current level and then they move on.....
I just realized the pain (well maybe not pain but man it sure hurts :) ) of this as I dinged 44 and realized I don't have that good of a chance of getting malaria until I am around 52 or so (which is funny because I was able to get Bond of the wild at 43....)
Now I know that one might argue that I would be able to get those spells that I miss more easily by gaining in level, but I just like to have them at the point I can use them. Also I can use the extra time to actually become an effective beastlord ..... I don't feel like I have learned to play one that well and yet somehow have stumbled to 44 -- but that's another conversation.
Malaria is useful for a long long time...so don't worry too much about getting it late. I'd say it's useful until you get Scorpion Venom at 61 at least.
The point abut getting AAs really fast at 70 is a good one. I am sure the OoW AAs will be insanely expensive. However, don't forget that when mobs turn lblue you'll take a big xp hit. Tastian has said before that one of his favorite AA spots was Fungus Grove mushrooms, which only started turning lblue when he hit 63, I think, making them unviable for xp. That will start happening when we surpass 65. I love Torgiran Mines, but I am sure that the mobs there will turn lblue above 65. Grieg's End might not turn lblue until 68 or 69, but I bet those mobs will too.
Hopefully the conning won't be as big a fiasco as when PoP first came out, but you never know...it could all get a lot worse. When mobs do start conning differently, will you be able to easily handle the mobs that are now dblue? What if the only things that con dark blue to you are PoV or higher type mobs? Yes, many 65 beastlords can solo them, but it's not usually considered efficient. This will be another factor for me when the time comes around--besides having my spells, will my favorite zones be no longer worth going to for me, or will I be "forced" to go to zones I don't feel I can kill efficiently in? Since the spells are so far pretty lackluster, I'm thinking that the AAs will have to be pretty spectacular for me to want to level above 65 right now.
And don't forget the whole focus effect issue--what if all of the "blah blah IV" items don't get extended past level 65, and we have to get all new "blah blah V" items? If an unfocused >65 spell is worse than the focused <66 version of it...what's the point in getting the new version until you get the higher focus?
So...way too many variables to really say now, in my opinion.
Game on,
One minor nit. At 65, in spite of the fact that the mushrooms in Fungus grove are light blue, you can still AA XP pretty darn quick on them, because they are so easy you can mow them down *fast*, and take almost no damage on yourself if your MR/DR are both in the 100+ range, since they spend all their time casting and not meleeing.
This especially applies to the not so uber bazaar geared Beastlord.
AA are nice to have and useful too.
I say that first so you don't get the wrong impression. But if you're looking at a pure power levels > AA. That doesn't mean there aren't good reasons to hold back (in fact I wrote a guide on it, stickied in this forum Level vs AA Guide (http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=325)). But I would take a 65 BL with 0 AA over a 63 BL with 50 AA any day of the week (if you're talking about fighting the same mobs with both chars).
As I see it, levels are must have, AA are utility. Remember pets, spells, damage chart, etc. are all directly related to levels.
edit added link
First a quick nitpick 8P Slow/stun/curse from shrooms all save againist disease. Not quite sure what you'd use MR for there. Maybe if throwing down with lotuses?
The main thing so many people miss about the levels verse AA thing is that it's not linear and not everyone played the game at the sametime. If you have a level 70 with 0 AA it's very likely the player has put very little time into the character outside of exp'n. This can lead to lack of spells and subpar gear, among other things such as a general lack of class knowledge. However, there have been some amazing players that at various times haven't been close to max level. I remember having a 64 monk friend join up for an LDoN at one point and everyone was wondering why I'd get a 64. Guy had max AA pre-PoP and top item in every slot except for 3 up to that time as well. He flat out dusted most most monks not only in terms of gear, but play time and skill.
What will happen with OoW especially is that the cap will go to 70 and the levels before people AA become even further apart. Also you'll have more people coming back to the game (hopefully). This means you are very likely to see 67th level 300 AA time geared beastlords and a 70th level 3 AA'd beastlord that isn't even close to top end bazaar gear. With PoP it was possible that something like 65 spells fero/sha's would tip the scale if you were main slower or adding fero to some over those that don't use savagery. With OoW atm though other than our pet what is there for a huge upgrade? A 70th level beastlord will possibly add a few more hps and a few more points of attack to the group. Currently SD upgrade means 1 more mana per tick regen. As it stands right now especially with OoW the gap between a new level 70 and a seasoned (leveled, geared, skilled) 65(ish) beastlord is quite high.
Whether people choose to level or AA is as always up to them and I'd never tell them otherwise. Like I said uptop though I'd much rather be the uberest 67th level beastlord in the game well waiting on my 68-70 spells than a level 70 that simply can't paragon, can't OT, does less damage, etc. As always personal preferance. 8)
Oh and also remember that we don't know how LDoNs will scale atm. It's possible that normal level 70 missions will be equivilant to hard 65 missions atm. If that is the case you will see some people padding their numbers with lower level people so they get missions that work for the group they have.
With regards to the discussion about level 60 with 50AA or level 65 with no AA.
Let me just add firstly that I am very much pro-AAs because I feel a poorly geared, zero AA'd, 65 Bst is far more of a liability to his level 65 group peers, especially in Bastion of Karnors and other Tier 2/3 planar zones, than a level 60 better geared/AA'd Bst in it's respective groups/zones.
Realistically, you have to be pretty desperate to bring a level 60 Bst into high end zones, so for most you are unlikely to face hard/fast hitting mobs, giving you that much more survivability. Whereas a level 65 Bst with nothing but the it's level tag in Bastion, acting as primary slower or offtank is more likely to find slow agro (especially where it bounces once or twice) to land him/her in "Bind" village with his/her groupies soon to follow if slow hasn't landed yet. Mobs hit that much harder and faster that it would be a waste of mana keeping the group in rezzes and buffs and in turn xp.
HOWEVER, in the long run, I think if your mates are levelling to 65 1st, work on the same goals and if they are AAing 1st then do the same. There's no point being 60 if your mates are 65 and vice versa because EQ is supposed to be a social game. You will live, die and learn together.
If you're sole aim is to be level 65 irrespective of your mates or people you began levelling with, then by all means go for 65 1st, but expect to die more frequently and not pull your weight in groups.
I don't xp that much anymore, but even with 437 AAs I will have to turn my hand to grinding a few more now that I have access to the Elemental Planes in preparation for Oow. I don't intend to get Oow AAs and levels ahead of reducing the number of old AAs I have yet to clear, only to find that 5% AA per group kill becomes 2/3% AA per group kill.
The other part, of course, is that since the trip to 65 is so fast these days, I'm meeting a LOT of 65 Beastlords lately who simply don't have the experience and skills I expect from someone at the top end of the class.
Pet control, aggro control, mob positioning, pet parking, raiding skills, proximity and pet pulling, what (and when) to offtank or preslow, splitting mobs, timing self/pet/group heals when things go bad, aggro kiting... some people pick these up fairly quickly once they get some help or watch someone else doing them - and some don't.
Please don't make me group with the level 70's who haven't learned any of this stuff. :P
I personally would go levels before AA.
Why?
1. More creatures will be lower level than you and many that were red before may now turn white con or yellow. While this may offer some reductions in XP for killing those creatures it has the following advantages:
- Your spells will be resisted less (if your level < mobs level they get a bonus to resist your spells, if you = mobs level they get no bonus, if you > mobs level they get a penalty to resist your spells)
- Greater resistance bonuses (and/or less penalties) vs mob spells due to level difference. So you will resist spells more often and take overall less dmg. (see above, flip-side of that coin).
- Greater overall mitigation (and/or less penalties) vs mob hits due to level difference (if your level < mobs level you suffer a penalty vs their hits and will be hit more frequently and for harder, if you = mobs level then no penalty or bonus, if you > mobs level then you get a bonus in terms of mitigating/avoiding their hits. Note this is probably some kind of invisible AC bonus or change in the mitigation/avoidance tables you use vs that mob, but no-one really knows for sure).
- Less mob mitigation vs your hits (see above, flip-side of that coin).
- Less creatures will aggro on you due to the "I'm scared" modifier to aggro (in older expansions anyway).
These points *especially* affect raid mobs, many tough raid mobs will become MUCH easier simply due to a higher average level for the players in that raid.
2. You have the ability to use more spells
For hybrids and pure casters spells are HUGE upgrades. The new OoW spells offer at LEAST 10% upgrades to all current spells and several new affects. For Beastlords that means stronger pets, better pet haste, better overall buffs, better pet heals, better fero, better nukes and *probably* a better slow spell (with -resist adj). In any group these spells are FAR more likely to go to someone who can use them NOW rather than someone who can use them in 1-5 levels time. Imagine your new HP with the new Virtue (or new druid skin + new symbol) + new shammy Focus + new Brells etc. Many old affects such as the shaman agility line now have affects like +% avoidance. {new spells > all}.
3. You have the ability to use more equipment
I fully expect to see "Required Level: 66+" or "Recommended Level: 66+" on new equipment. Even some of the more powerful pieces of "older" equipment may get "re-balanced" with this level range in mind.
4. You have the ability to do more quests
I also expect to see quests that require L66+ in OoW. It *will* happen (if not soon then eventually).
5. You have the ability to gain the new AA's
Anyone willing to place a bet that many of the more powerful new AA's will be level restricted? aka, you can purchase one level of <x> AA every level starting at L66. blah blah blah. You just KNOW it will happen.
6. You take advantage of the psychological affect amongst players that the highest level brings.
Ever been level L60-64 and noticed that many L65's look down on you and won't include you in their group? Snotty I know but it happens and its very very common. People naturally want the best people they can get in their groups and many wrongly look at the level of the player before ANYTHING else. When OoW is released I can almost *guarantee* L66+ people will find it easier to get groups than L65, and once more and more people become L70 then players who are below that level will notice its harder to get into groups until they reach that magical number. This WILL happen.
7. You gain the higher class titles
This may or may not be a good thing but we will see. For example rogues go from being "Assassin"(L63-L64) to "Deciever"(L65). Assassin is a waaaaaaaaay cooler title imho.
8. Various caps raise
Possibilities include:-
- Higher max stat caps
- Higher reward for LDoN (based on avg level of group)
- Higher cap on max % haste (w/o overhaste)
- Various level restrictions on spells raised (eg. charm higher level, mez higher level, stun higher level, fear higher level etc.). These of course are dependant on the new spells.
- Higher base HP/Mana/End (modifier calculated using lvl).
~~~~ etc etc ~~~~~
So in summary, simply raising a single level can and will bring far more advantages than even the most powerful of our AA's will grant. That raid mob suddenly being DB to him will help any tank far more than LR5+ID5 combined and any caster far more than SCS3+SCF3 combined. And thats not including the other advantages I listed.
But.... its your choice :)
Do whatever makes your little heart happy!
Quote from: EatbugsThe other part, of course, is that since the trip to 65 is so fast these days, I'm meeting a LOT of 65 Beastlords lately who simply don't have the experience and skills I expect from someone at the top end of the class.
Pet control, aggro control, mob positioning, pet parking, raiding skills, proximity and pet pulling, what (and when) to offtank or preslow, splitting mobs, timing self/pet/group heals when things go bad, aggro kiting... some people pick these up fairly quickly once they get some help or watch someone else doing them - and some don't.
Please don't make me group with the level 70's who haven't learned any of this stuff. :P
First off, I want to thank everyone for participating so much in this topic! I never expected as many responses with useful information as I have received! This just makes me realize that choosing a BL (finally after 4 months of playing numerous other classes!) was a good choice -- the community support is strong.
Having said that, Eatbugs' plea is the challenge I seem to be presented with and one that spurred me to start this topic. I DON'T want to be a level 65/70 that hasn't learned any of this stuff. But of course, I don't want to be level 51 and try to earn level 52 over and over and over again in the quest for AA. So I am trying to find the balance -- and have read the guides. The guides are about to change though (to what extent, who knows) with a level cap increase. And by trying to avoid the problems outllined above, I may be better off by AA'ing through the 50's instead of set levelling. Biggest problem I have is the dearth of activity for my level on my server.
The information I am getting from this thread is truly helping guide me and develop a picture of what will occur in another 6 weeks. Heh, not like I will be 65 then or even in my 60's (as I have said before) but this information will help.
So, who wants to open up the BL training school?
There are certain things about the level that simply can't be known at this point either. Just how big the spell upgrades are, how available they will be, how much harder monsters get, etc. I know some beastlords that lingered around 60 for a few weeks after PoP came out just so they could get their spells and some AAs and not have to move up to the planes for much harder blue con kills. Not everyone will be ready to move up to the next level.
It really does vary by person and that's why I don't stereotype. I find as much merit in judging a one person by an entire group as I do in judging an entire group by one person. Some people will be more prepared than others for the level. There are bad players at all levels and progression points in the game. It will really depend what the expansion offers people and what your situation is as to what is the best decision for you. Soon the expansion hits you will see people asking direct questions like "I don't have a guild, I just solo, I can't get any of my spells because they cost too much atm, if I ding my focus effects don't work, etc should I level?" In a situation like that most would say no, don't level yet. Of course, it assumes things we can't know quite yet, and assuming is bad mmmkay? hehe
Quote from: TastianFirst a quick nitpick 8P Slow/stun/curse from shrooms all save againist disease. Not quite sure what you'd use MR for there. Maybe if throwing down with lotuses?
Yeah, I used to inevitably end up agroing a lotus or two while I was there. It has been a long time since I did these, because in my later days I was never trying for raw XP, I was always XPing with something else in mind (Droga/Nurga quests, Tribute, etc).
I just went to 65 with 6'aas. I would have hit 65 with none but wanted to slow down for my wifes cleric. Our spells rock in the 60's its why I went levels first. I could see staying around 62-63 if you have a leveling group all the time that doesnt mind you being that level. Me I had to get to 65 I was passed up for alot of ldons and bot groups because I was not 65 with the 65 percent slow. 60 to 64 was kinda weird for me I did alot of it soloing groups were much more difficult to get than at 65.
Held my opinion til now.. but
Will our pet having 500 more hp, doing 5 more damage, kragg giving 40 more hp, our stat buffs buffing 10 more to stats, new SD giving us 1 more mana/health regen, pet haste already so very close to cap that it does not matter one bit if its 90% than 85%, 10 more dmg on a new rellic, and 5 more resist on a new fero REALLY compensate for having to exp where mobs will be hitting for 700s-900s and you getting 2%/kill, not 500-600 and you getting that same 2%/kill in BoT like now?
To get the same AA a kill in a group, I FULLY believe you will have to exp in elementals at 70 to get what you get now in Bastion of Thunder.
Will all of those spells ALONE make a beastlord able to survive in Elementals and be useful? If you took a all 65 group right now, gave them lvl 70 and those spells, and increased everyhting they had maybe 10-20%(not slow though, which they havent improved or listed as being improved last I heard), would they be able to maintain the same exp rate that a lvl 65 group does now with no or few aa in BoT?
Myself, I think very much, NO.
The ONLY reason I, myself went to 65 before AAs was 65% slow, that was the primary reason, there was no other. 64 and 62 pet has something to do with it, fero had a very small part to do with it back then. I was VERY confident and powerful at 60 or 61. I thought about stopping at 62 to do 20-50 aas... but was always told, that the 65 slow would change so much and get me so many more groups. I agree, it has.
Take that slow away, make it so we got a cheaper, faster casting 50% slow at 65, MAYBE with a resist check that was better than 60 version.
Make it so that the lvl 60 pet was lvl 60 not 47, it hit for ... 68 I think? it does hit for that if i remember. Would you really go to 65 with no AA now? Without a thought? Would there be anything to gain from going to 65 first and not paragon?
If my 60 pet was lvl 60 like the 62 one is, even though it hit for 6 dmg less and had 300ish less HP, and my 60 slow was the same % as the 65 one... I would have waited a LOT longer to hit 65.
At current, I see no reason to rush to lvl 70, I see a lvl 70 as a 65 with just "slight and very minute" upgrades to a 65. The way it is now, I see a 65 with his spells as a much better slower and a much better offtanker with his pet than a lvl 60 beastlord.
If I knew a 70 beast with 18aa and a 65 beast with 80aa, id invite the 65 with much higher preference if I was playing another class.
If I know a 65 bst with LR5, im not inviting any Beast regardless of being lvl 70 unless he also has LR5. I know for a fact what breaks and makes things in groups im in... and the barely stronger spells of OoW and the small minute change in mitigation the beast would receive would not make enough of a difference when compared to LR5 or other AAs.
At the moment, for most classes(spellcasters), the spells they receive are strong enough for the places they exp(bazaar geared and non-flagged 65s), to not warrant them needing AA, and to overshadow 60s that dont have those spells. A 65 Druid I think will do fine in BoT healing, and I think will do better than a 60 druid with healing AA and scr3 and maybe... sotw. Why? because the spells are that powerful between 60 and 65 atm.
In OoW, there is a very very small gap in between 65 spells and 70 spells, at least for beastlord and the few classes ive looked at. Unless the spell was enough of an increase to warrant leveling, Im still going to lean towards 65 with some AAs to 70 with hardly any.
Now for Clerics now, a 60 cleric might could outdo a 65 cleric with less AAs( like 60aa for the 60 and 12 for the 65). For Tanks, the improved mitigation of lvl 70 may be enough for them to warrant going for it first and not AAs. For beastlords, I feel it is very unwise to go to 70 first then AA, I feel it is quite wise to get barely what you need AA wise then go to 65 and AA from there.
The difference between 60 and 65 is worth it to beasts, you can do aas, but youll need to get lvls for some of the AAs anyway(planar ones like LR and ID). The difference between 65 and 70 isnt worth it IMO, as AAs give much better return til about 150 or 200, then lvl 70 would be worth it to go to IMO.
Lvl 70 will effect exp, you wont get 2%/kill in groups in BoT anymore, youll only get that from Earth or maybe SolRo probably. Will you have the AAs to last in Earth or SolRo at 70? When you do its fine to go to 70... IMO.
However for me, im getting as many AA as I can while its still easy to get decent exp(being 65 and places like BoT giving 2% and SolRo giving 3%)
Im not going to lvl to 70 for very very minute improvements and anything less than a 70% slow, just to see my aa exping now take twice as long at the same places... with only a 10% faster killing ability.
10% faster killing
50% less exp..
(this is because of the 5 lvl exp bonus, if a mob is within 5 lvls of you, you get more exp?[was told to me a few times] Dinging 69 would mean BoT would no longer be in that 5 lvls except for krigers, and as such no more exp bonus, just saying Bot would be trivial then, and youd be forced to move to SolRo and Eles, and could that 10% more effectiveness really REALLY help you there more than 100aa would?)
10% does not = 50%...
All guesses and assumptions, you dont have to like my opinion, but given the data on OoW at current, I just dont feel like 70 is worth much at all.
Personally, i disagree with the commen level > aa route in two situations.
a) if you are twinked to hell - you might just want to stop, and find a sweet spot to aa at, currently my beast is level 60, im earning +/- 1% aa per kill in nurga and other areas, and the only downtime is that which i create. the reasoning behind this is that you can milk the twink vs mob disparity.
b) you are under geared - if your gear is poor, you might acctually be better off going aa' while you farm your favourite area for cash to upgrade, lets face it, even if you win/are givin the 65 slow.. if you cannot live through a round of agro do to gear.. what is the use?
when it comes to milking twink vs mob disparity - i find that it also seems like i earn exp quicker then my higher level peers and freinds when i do get groups in areas such as pov/bot etc just because those mobs, being red/yeller or higher blue to me kick in the exp bonus.. but i cannot back that up with facts.
In conclusion, when ever it comes to this paticular discussion, it all depends on what your goals are, and what your friends are doing. My main has been 65 for an aweful long time, i personally like the idea of haveing a toon that isnt one rounded by yard trash, therefore i will mostlikely keep the beasty at 60 for quite some time.
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1004289
A couple of friends in game (I'm in the military and always fall behind my friends, end up playing a lot of catch up) recommended that I hit 65 before I turned on AA's. I dinged 65 about a week ago I guess and I'm so glad that I waited. I dont have great gear, hell, I sit on 5400hp fully buffed with AC right around 1100 (just over usually). I dont have my 65% slow yet, only Ferocity as I cant find the other ones for sale on Prexus (Fero ran me 12k in case anyone was interested).
I have no trouble finding groups and I've never had a problem with them dropping me because I only had the 50% slow either. 60-65 was a piece of cake I thought, I did a level a day in PoV and BoT after 62. In BoT I get 2% AA a kill and about 1% lvl Exp (90% going to AA until level is maxed) every 15 mobs. AAs roll in so quickly since they are based on the lvl 51 points scale its just unreal. I just cant imagine stopping for AA sooner, there just isnt anything a bst absolutely needs.
I finished up Run 3 and Regen 3 the other day and going to work on offense mainly (I'll mix in CA for mitigation purposes as I'd rather be missed twice than have 300 extra hit points any day). I would say wait regardless, I'm glad that I have.
No offense, but folks like you are the prime example of why NOT to wait till 65 for grinding AA.
You are NOT level 65. You are a level 60, with a few extra HP.
When I invite a level beastlord to a group, I would expect to have them landing a 65% slow, since that is what I invited them for.
Had you done some AA along the way, you would have CA3, SRC3 and Paragon by now, probably pet hold too, and much better gear.
Folks that grind away to 65, and get there with no AA, no gear and no spells make me want to scream.
I'm sorry, but being 65 means casting a 65% slow, not doing the same thing a level 60 can, with 200 more HP.
How would working on AAs get me better gear? If you are relying on a beast for slow you probably arent a group I want to be either. I dont mind slowing if thats what I'm asked to do and I've yet to have anyone reject me because of that fact. You invite a beastlord for DPS, if he is able to offer something than great.
I gain an AA about every hour and fifteen minutes and will surpass a 60 in very little time. Your way worked for you, this way works for me. Thats the nice thing about alternate advancement I guess.
Paragon is gravy as well, and by next weekend I should be up around 30+ AAs. I think an AA in the amount of time I'm averaging is pretty quick and the groups I'm in never complain about mana soo, Paragon can wait too.
"How would working on AAs get me better gear?"
Working on AAs gets you better gear for the level you are at. If you just rush to 65 and have no AAs you only have so much time put into your character, but you are 65. However, if you stop at 55, 60, 62, wherever and AA some, even just 10 hours more say then that's 10 more hours you spent getting money, playing your character, grouping, or whatever. The differance between a 65 beastlord with no AAs and a 65 beastlord with 50AAs is quite large in most cases. Not just because of the AAs, but because of the time spent on them and the other things that come with it. This of course isn't absolute and some 65s with 300AAs are clueless about the class and some people are just good players, but stopping to AA gives you more time to make money and play your class without having the level go up. There are a lot of ways to advance in EQ and many of them don't even have a state tied to them. I know some people that have improved greatly just by adjusting their hotkeys and macros. 8) *shrugs*
"How would working on AAs get me better gear? If you are relying on a beast for slow you probably arent a group I want to be either. I dont mind slowing if thats what I'm asked to do and I've yet to have anyone reject me because of that fact. You invite a beastlord for DPS, if he is able to offer something than great"
Hrm, I agree with ya, but sheesh. tell some of the groups I get this :)
Im usually shaman/enchanter and beastlord.
We do fine though.
Hes just saying, 65% slow is a big drawing card, and thats one of the big reasons to ding 65. Myself, I wouldnt ding 65 if I didnt have slow, (though i did, but had slow about 4 days later).
It should be asked when they ask you to group tho, do you have 65 slow? if not, then they can decide.
Its just such a powerful tool, that you can start to replace a shaman in a group, and that brings us into even more grouping situations.
Since so many beastlords are now performing the jobs of shamans/enchatners, people get lazy I guess... and start to expect every beastlord to be able to perform that job.
We have some necros in our LDoNs who offtank mobs and even had one in SolRo the other day offtanking(this was AMAZING to say the least).
I have seen some people ask necros in groups to offtank... i know all necros probably cant. (Necros with LR5 and high lifetaps can do pretty well on a mob tanking it for a short while, or long while, depending on the necro) However im not one to invite a necro for offtanking purposes, its purely emergency for me.
erm, too sleepy to go on, so ill just stop there i guess mid thought.
What is revealed here is a difference in attitude. Some folks don't mind being in a group and carried by their group mates; others want to make an equal or greater contribution to any group they are in.
The first set hit 65 with 0 AAs, missing most spells, being carried (effectively power leveled) by their groups/guild. The others take longer to get their because they solo more, probably wait around 60-62 to get paragon, and wait for Sha's Revenge and Ferocity (and SD) to hit 65.
To be fair, the emphasis on raid > group > solo is what creates this attitude; it's all a part of the game, and an essential part of raiding in EQ - where you get better loot by being afk for 3:45, then play Simon Says for 15 mins.
Right now Sexzy is 16 days and 18 hours old. I soloed exclusively until 60 where exp was quicker to obtain grouped (I have a 65 druid that I boxed with much of time). I started as a very mild twink as I invested in a full set of Acrylia armors and a Centi Warhammer. Everything from that point on was funded by Sexzy, I quested the EoS (only cost me about 1100pp because I waited for good deals on stuff) and the Cloak of Greater Pernicity as well. I had every single spell many levels before I could use them until 65. Ferocity is for sale most days, I saw Acumen for the first time in two weeks today and picked it up, I was able to get Plague obviously as well. I have yet to see any other 65 beastlord spells for sale in the last two weeks, period. I have the coin to grab them.
I havent purchased other gear becase there isnt anything with stats that are near worth buying for what people are asking. I will wait for drops.
At this point I am working on AAs and will be seeking a nice guild where I mostly certainly plan on getting help. I dont want money or gear handed to me, I want to go to areas I havent been.
I've played 3 years now and have a pretty good clue how things work. I agree there are a lot of crappy players, I'm not one of them and on Prexus all my toons have a very good reputation for solid game play and a good attitude.
As I typed this I put LFG up and it took all of 3 minutes to get an invite from some peeps I grouped with the other night in BoT :) Guess they dont mind me leeching off of them some more :roll:
Oh yea, I play a Shaman and a Chanter too, though I've given up hope with the chanter as few groups seem to take advantage of what they can do. Seems people cant read anymore.
Well, just found Sha's Revenge. 20k on prexus off another beast in BoT :) Guess I'm almost worthwhile in a group now :roll:
*sigh*
sexzy
I didnt mean that at all.
Beastlords are meant for dps and the 50 slow is fine, Im just saying that the 65 slow puts us in a position to be dps and be able to slow too and do both very well. When we can replace a shaman and chanter, it allows the group to bring in different elements and more dps. At height, a beastlord brings 2 offtanks, dps, slowing, shm buffing, hasting, and even minor healing to a party.
I was just saying, that since some people see a few beastlords doing this, then they tend to start to think that any beastlords can fill all those roles in their head(I dunno why) and thats why some might dump you, when you dont have the 65 slow, or other things. I did not mean to upset you if I did. Wasnt saying you leech off other party members, because you dont.
To the day I quit it annoyed the crap out of me when people would ask me if I had the 65% slow before inviting me to a group somewhere easy. Most people in a standard pickup group can't even really tell the difference between the two. If it was a pickup group trying to attempt Hard LDoNs or GoD I'd buy it, but for normal LDoN or PoP Tier 1-2? Please, spare me.
Quotea) if you are twinked to hell - you might just want to stop, and find a sweet spot to aa at, currently my beast is level 60, im earning +/- 1% aa per kill in nurga and other areas, and the only downtime is that which i create. the reasoning behind this is that you can milk the twink vs mob disparity.
Nurga is a bad example. Soloing for XP in Nurga at 65 is really really fast, such that if you are doing it quick at 60 it'll be even faster at 65. Now if the zone greens out that might be different, but Nurga does not. As a matter of fact, Nurga is the place where if I was "in the zone" I could solo for XP fastest out of all the zones I ever tried. :)
Heh - actually, Nurga is a good example :). At 62 I could get exp faster in Nurga than I can at 65. But there was a wide range in how fast I could get exp at 61/62, depending on number of AAs. At 65 with, say 50 AAs, I was much faster than at 62 with only 18 AAs, but slower than 62 with enough AAs to have Elder title. My sweet spot at 62 was the Jeopla/Thabis corridor; at 65 I roam from Breplish to Donkot usually.
Guess in the end the big question is "ARE YOU HAVING FUN" if so then we got the right answer ;)
Quote from: HerekiHeh - actually, Nurga is a good example :). At 62 I could get exp faster in Nurga than I can at 65. But there was a wide range in how fast I could get exp at 61/62, depending on number of AAs. At 65 with, say 50 AAs, I was much faster than at 62 with only 18 AAs, but slower than 62 with enough AAs to have Elder title. My sweet spot at 62 was the Jeopla/Thabis corridor; at 65 I roam from Breplish to Donkot usually.
I'd be interested in knowing how fast you gained XP in Nurga at 62. I could get an AA solo every 90 minutes or so at 65 in Nurga. If you were going faster than that at 62 I'd be amazed.
I know when I hunted in Nurga at level 60 it took a lot longer than that per AA (I stopped at 60 to AA up through Paragon). At least two and a half hours each, although it was quite a while ago so could mis-remember.
I posted in threads in other sections at the time. I haven't checked (what I put in the earlier posts would be definitive), but I think it was 3.5 down to 2.5 hours solo at 62, possibly better, then slowed back down again as I moved up tiers. I am not quite sure what it is at 65, but with a low level druid bot, is around 3-4 hours for one AA (but fantastic exp for the druid). I'll have to check again. I could certainly easily get 3 or 4 AAs in one all day session.
That's certainly odd...like I said in Nurga I ground out XP faster than any other zone I tried. I was quite obviously not uber enough to go solo in places for 14% AA XP per kill, so I was limited to Luclin and early PoP zones.
The closest zones to my Nurga rate were Valor, if I could get a good spot away from the masses (way slower and riskier kills but way more XP/kill) and Grieg's End. No where else seemed to come close.
Even with a druid bot I would have expected your rate to be < 3 hours per AA at 65. Hmm.
Hrm... fastest I can grind out is about an AA in 1hr 45min in grieg's, maybe 1hr 30min if I really nuke it and go all out mana wise....
/shrug, thats really really pushing it tho.
Usually I get an AA there in 2hr-2hr 15min... which is fine for me.
Torgiran I get AAs in 1.5-2 hours with so little risk it's not even funny. If I have 9 in addition to KEI it's even faster than that...and if I get the hoarders or named to pop that's even better (since they're twice the exp but less than twice the hp).
I like GE better for the gem drops though. And higher level mobs mean better exp for friends I'm grouping with doing normal experience.
Game on,
Druid wasn't contributing a lot, just a snare and the odd heal. If I duo, my rate is about 3-4 hours. In other words, I get a slower rate despite the added fire power (example there is with a 61 mage, 12 AAs, VT geared).
I will go back in shortly to work out a genuine solo AA rate.
Hrm.. just thought of something... would having Kei/Virtue help my solo AAage?
*edit*
of course it would... sigh* im stupid at times...
but just saying.. maybe I could cut my 2hrs~ish /aa down to 1.5 or even 1.25 /aa with kei/9s or kei/V, I never thought of kei/V as that helpful once ive become almost self sufficient solo with self buffs.
Usually when I solo, I do it self buffs only, for such an ease of use, and the fact that I can take Grieg's NP without kei/Virtue and same for Inner AC.
hrm... maybe the added kei + 9s might help me nuke more I guess... /shrug
I do admit to achieve that rate I had to have KEI up, when I didn't it was somewhat slower, but still under 2 hours.
Was usually using Scorpion Venom + Frost Shard for my damage spells, kept Fero up on myself at all times. Without KEI I'd generally have to ditch both damage spells.
As you can see by my Magelo, was using SHO + WLK (so hardly uber there), Flowing Thought 8 + MC 2, Vengeance V from items.
/shrug
I found what I wrote before:
QuoteA BoT group often lasts me for 3-4 hours, sometimes more; if we are concentrating on exp, I get 1 AA per 90 - 120 minutes. However, if someone in the group gets itchy for named hunting, and it always seems to happen, that exp goes right out the window.
Now, at 62 soloing with 18 AAs (rs3/regen3/SCR3) it took me around 3 hours 10-15 minutes to get an AA in Nurga at Jeopla camp. That sounds worse than BoT at its best, but really was on a par with average groups; clearly worse than good groups, tho. Add Paragon, a little CA, PE, pet mend into the mix, and at 35-40 AAs, same level, same camp, I was getting one AA in 2.5 hours. That was a while ago, and I really haven't timed AAs at 65/Elder - partly because all the guild twinks like to come and sit with me and soak exp experience and faction.
That is no KEI, FT5.
In the same thread, Tastian was quoting 2 hours per AA in Fungus Grove at 62.
Update on that; 65, BF5, WA1, usual other AAs. 2:00 - 2:15 for one AA solo in Nurga tier 5, self buffed only - no per focus. Weapons were Savage Lords Pitchatka, Waning Light Katar. FT7, 95% Bazaar gear (apart from SLP and elemental hat). No down time allowed for, constant killing; the only times I stepped back were for rebuffs. Roughly 1 minute per kill, 65-70 dps reported by eqwatcher (self melee, spells and procs, excluding warder).
Buffs included Regrowth and Ferocity, popped Paragon as soon as it was available. Warder with IoS, Arag's Celerity, and Rellic.
I don't think that I could beat that time without a significant dps boost. KEI would have helped; as it was I rarely nuked and never dotted.