Didn't see it posted anywhere here, but Roar of Thunder has been changed to a de-aggro/debuff AA skill in this link Roar of Thunder (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5843&source=Test).
Currently it is a 1500 DD, neg 80 to str, agility and dex, and a neg 1500 hate at level 3. With a neg 250 resist check also. It's a single target skill that lasts for 5 ticks instead of the previous AE target skill.
I don't really take too much to heart until the expansion is out, there is confirmation, or some such positive affirmation.
BUT, on this one, I'll say something....
WEEEEEHAAAAA!!!
Now that's what I'm talking about!!!!!
Yah, i'm happy w/ the lastest change. It's not perfect, but a big step in the right direction, imo.
It's not AoE anymore, I don't like that at all. I would much rather give up the hate and stat reducer and have it be AoE again.
Whats the reuse timer?
No update on the reuse timer. And as for AE, if they kept'd it as AE I wouldnt buy it. I need deaggro.
The consequences of it being AE would not benefit me in anyway. Most of the time I group with a chanter friend and if one of her mezzes gets woken up without any warning she is one ticked off chanter.
But, I still it being changed further possibly.
Hope the re-use timer is sutably low. If it's 72 minutes it's pretty marginal. Being single target I'd like to see it down to 30 seconds, personally.
That's DEFINITELY a step in the right direction! :)
As far as the AE, no thank you. The last thing I need is to buy an AA that I can never use on raids/grouping, since it would send chanters/bards through the roof with CC.
The only things I'm waiting to see now are:
1) the reuse timer. I think 36 minutes would be fair. 72 minutes would be disagreeable.
2) The AA cost. I'm not an uber character, so saving up an uber amount of AA's is tough (still don't have Sinister Strike or Pet Affinity since there's too many other things to get beforehand).
Making this a de-aggro is a HUGE improvement. That's all I really cared about anyway. As for the refresh, you have to bear in mind that currently it's a 1500dmg manaless nuke. Giving it a refresh of 30 seconds would make it a 50DPS skill with no cost to use at all. We could use it everytime it popped, never run out of mana, and never have to worry about aggro from it since that's one of its functions. In it's current form, count on at least a 30 minute re-use.
I'd still like to see that damage lowered to around 100-200 so it could refresh in 1 or 2 minutes without being over-powered from a DPS standpoint. I'd even settle for no dmg at all if it helped. Plus, if you need to lower your aggro that much more than once every minute or so, you need to stop chaining slow. :shock:
I like the Deagro nuke debuff idea. Now I can nuke at 96% and not die. :P
Tastian calculated that 1500 dd every 5 mins would be 5dps.
1500dd/300 seconds = 5 dps
If we had it at 15mins refresh we'd get
1500dd/900 seconds = 1.66 dps
and 0.833 dps for a 30 min refresh.
If DPS is the limiting factor on the refresh we can suggest something suitable based on the expected dps vs other aas expected dps.
Seems to me that anything between 15 and 30 mins would be ok.
For me a 30 minute timer would be good. I would mainly use it soloing a Named mob. Since most of the guys I go after are on about a 30 minute timer that would be pretty good. If it isn't too expensive I may get it :)
Heck, drop the nuke part and let me just 30-sec chain-click "LEAVE ME ALONE".
No really. Do you guys chain-cast DoTs on raids or something? Where are all these aggro problems you're all having coming from? /boggle
QuoteNo really. Do you guys chain-cast DoTs on raids or something? Where are all these aggro problems you're all having coming from? /boggle
hmmm......... well, there's alot of factor's into one generating aggro.
Generally, when I'm in groups, I am usually the designated slower. Now I still get boggled on how I generate more then our guild tank. I know he has anger augs on his weapons and I'll have to ask him what his weapons are again. But, I can usually take aggro right off of him and end up keeping it for the entire fight.
On raids, well its more of a mystery to me. I dont even cast and still pull it off. Sucks sitting at bind 40% of the time from over aggro and telling raid I need a battle rezz or wait till all clear.
So to try and answer your question, its hard to say how any one beastlord gets too much aggro. I know in groups its due to me slowing, incap (sometimes), and dotting .
How others achieve it could be a number of things, weapons, certain procs, pre-slowing. Kinda hard to tell without being behind that person's back to see what they are doing.
Hmm. I'm still confused. :? I DoT, nuke, and sometimes even slow on raids. I'm using BattleFists and Savage Platinum Fists, auged with the 125 poison and 75 cold dd augs, and Weapon Affinity 5. Very very rarely do I pull aggro from raid mobs. Our tank has a blade of war, but I wasn't pulling aggro even before he had it.
When the tank goes down and the mob starts eating people, the first ones to die are usually clerics, necros, and wizards. Then go the druids. I usually fall in line after that. As an example, on Rydda Dar our tactic is usually for me to tank the Custodian all the way and then hold Rydda Dar until the warrior main tank gets aggro. Even then I usually don't pull aggro when the warrior yanks it offa me. I just don't understand why some beastlords on here are producing so insanely much aggro that they're insta-snack for raid mobs.
Anyone else have input?
It happens to me too (insta-aggro). I was with a group in Vxxed and the warrior would pull. If I got too close until the mob was at 80%, it would turn to attack me.
This was with:
- using 2HB
- Pet Taunt off
- No procs on weapon
- No slowing
- No Dots
- No Nukes.
quad 900s wout hit me before I could say "NOT IN THE FACE"!
I don't know what the hell is going on.
A lot of it is tied to random things...Procs, dots, etc.
Remember that critical affliction raises aggro on those ticks well SCF doesn't raise aggro on nukes.
Also SV has ~50% more aggro per damage point base than a nuke. That only gets worse with focus/AAs factored in.
Your weapons are very low aggro. SPF is just amazing for dps and low aggro.
I don't know how much you are nuking or when you are doing it, but some of it is just random bad luck. You don't know when a proc will fire, you don't know when a crit tick will happen on a dot. I've cast my nuke, had it land, had my attacks fire, proc'd, kicked and had 2 dots crit in one round. The technical term for that is an "@$$load" of aggro lol. About half of which I just couldn't account for or plan around.
Not every beastlord takes aggro everytime on every mob. Yet stop and look at the situations where a beastlord is getting summoned and ask yourself a few questions...
Was the beastlord debuffing?
Was the beastlord doing something "stupid" (ie chaing dots, engaging early, etc)?
Was the beastlord doing the most damage at the time?
There are a lot of times when the answers to all of these questions are no. I've had fights where I pull aggro off a MT well doing ~200dps well wizards are throwing out 300+, well rogues disc'd and spiked into the 500's and well others are well over me, yet I'm the one going splat. No slow, no debuff, no resisted dots, not chain casting scorp.
In that situation some will say "look at your weapons". That makes no sense to me though because I'm already doing less damage than other people. If I were getting aggro because I double disc'd was chain nuking with 4 dots going so my dps was above others I could see it. Heck I never once have complained about aggro well slow'n or anything like that. To look at some "good" beastlords though with "good" tanks and see them get aggro knowing they have no dots mem'd, knowing they aren't slowing and knowing they are doing less dps than others just makes you scratch your head (or atleast it does me).
WTB a Tastian Magelo
:twisted:
I don't pull aggro off the main tank but I'm usually one of the first to get hammered if a tank goes down ;) So I want a version of Roar that can be clicked every 5 minutes or less to reduce my aggro. Cut the DD component if 5 DPS is too much, (Though it really doesn't seem to me that it is), and get that refresh timer set to FAST!
--Kreseth
I guess the question I have, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is what good would an ability be if I can only use it every 3rd fight? Are we looking for something that will allow us to snap agro off of us, or something to consistently keep it off of us (like a rogue's evade?) If the latter, I'd think we'd want a rapid refresh time.
Since I seem to draw agro on every fight regardless of what I do or don't do, I'd rather see something that consistently lets me move down the list instead of it being situational like even a 5-minute refresh time would give.
I could be missing something - it is almost a holiday weekend afterall.
The thing is this is one AA that happens to have some DEaggro on it, a first for beastlords. This isn't the holy grail of aggro control or the answer to all of our problems, but some are trying to turn it into that. The AA atm is a way to do some damage, has neg aggro component and atleast starts to address the issue of how much extra aggro beastlords generate for their non-melee forms of damage. This doesn't fix dot aggro issues, it doesn't mean we couldn't use an icy jolt type of spell or anything like that.
my main question... doesn't agro from melee/spell dmg = the amt of dmg done/healed?
In which case.... a 1500 hit... and a 1500 deagro just means one agro free nuke... that's about it right?
At this point of game deaggro is in the bottom of my AA list aka warriors can keep aggro very well. Well... good if some other ppl gets something out of this AA.
-Raz
I would understand if I'd seen the kinds of situations that you guys are describing, but I just haven't. I've never seen any beastlord or myself get undue amounts of aggro if they weren't trying for it (i.e. to yank a mob off a caster). If beastlord aggro really is as broken as most on this board claim it is, I'd surely have seen SOMETHING, neh?
So to me, this change to the AA seems a step backwards. I liked the stun and the PbAE, but I suppose that was a matter of taste.
Break out your dots some time kivuli. I don't mind taking a few hits in xp groups but it does seem to annoy the healer somewhat ;) I'm normally slowing on INC & even if I'm grouped with a paladin a slow resist & second or third slow cast pretty much guarantee SOME aggro. Our DOTs are all high aggro as well. Nukes are OK so with a weak tank I'll just nuke.
If this isn't our be all, end all aggro fix, then I want to know what is...& if nothing is, I'll keep pushing to make this get changed into it :)
--Kreseth
Heh I grab agro more with incap than I do with our poison dots.
I have had mega-agro issues. I have retired my dots on raids because the GoD dot is such ridiculous agro. I'll pop it on a boss mob at like 75%, while dpsing (SHO, fully aug'd with 75 pt lifetap, GMU with 125 poison), after opening up at engage with trushar's and boom! there I was on agro. Watched it happen to me 2x on last raid I did it, so I then retired it for raiding. I nuke, alot, when we're on boss mobs, so in addition to the regular dps, I get a lot of nuke agro. Hell, on RD before, after the tank'd proc'd EB on the mob a time or 2, I stole agro 2x, 5% apart. First time tank was able to taunt/proc off and def disc barely saved me, but 2nd time, I went splat.
In group situations, I have even more issues there. If it is an instance where I have to slow a mob 3 or 4 times (my kingdom for a tash proc at times ><), the mob's agro is mine. Damn near any tank has real troubles keeping up with me. But then again, when I'm pulling, with slow, and setting that high initial agro, whaddya expect?
I DO use DoTs. Either I'm really lucky or the rest of the besatlord community is cursed.
Even when I wasn't using ED... the instant I used a DOT, I was pretty much a target. Course, most of the time I'm slower in the group... so... yeah slow + dot = megaagro. Sometimes I've never even had to use the dot and land slow on first try and I stay high... that was with Fangs and SPF. So yeah the DOTs are at back of book either due to awful efficiency of time or too much agro.
Add a focus for your dots (BA or something) and get critical dots III. You will be guarunteed to get insane amounts of aggro while raiding and the ire of you raid leader/warriors. :lol:
lol I still want to be able to just turn CA off or have the points refunded for now. Knew I'd regret buying it, but wanted to finish AA tests on it lol. *shrugs*
Quote from: Tastianlol I still want to be able to just turn CA off or have the points refunded for now. Knew I'd regret buying it, but wanted to finish AA tests on it lol. *shrugs*
Gah, I thought you mean Combat Agility at first. Then I realized the context was Critical Affliction. Whew!
Game on,
The new change to RoT is interesting.
Am I right to assume that's -3000 hate per tick for 5 ticks?
If so, and if the reuse is in the 10 minute or so range, that might actually be useful, even if I can't crit the nuke portion. Would be nice to be able to help try and slow a named mob, and unload some dots and nukes during those 30 seconds.
QuoteAm I right to assume that's -3000 hate per tick for 5 ticks?
That's how i would read it as well.
Roar of Thunder
1: Decrease HP when cast by 1500
2: Decrease STR by 80
3: Decrease DEX by 80
4: Decrease AGI by 80
5:
Decrease Modify Hate by 3000 Ancient Chaos Cry (Warrior Agro Disc)
1: Increase Hate by 480
2:
Increase Modify Hate by 84 From looking at the two it does appear that we are going to be losing 3000 hate every tick for 5 ticks. So this could be good to use during middle of fights where you've built up a good deal of hate and this will pretty much drop you to bottom of list.
Thats alot of hate reduction... I dont really see's these agro problems you guys talk about really. When im dotting/slowing/nuking in a group my sk just has to cast 2 agro spells to keep mob off me (festering then fear) though to be fair my sk does now have the 125yak proc on his weapon + does cast more then 2 agro spells hehe but thats to keep agro off my wife while she opens up on mobs with 5.2sec casts SoS...
Oh yah back to roar of thunder seems nice now only thing i dont like about is the hate reduction dot component. I mean if recast is long then this will be nice for casting mid raid boss fight before you think your gonna get agro but if say you wait to cast it as you get agro 3k hate might not be enough to save you and waiting for the next tick will seem like eternity...
I seem to see alot of references to GoD mobs or higher planes mobs on raids with people having agro problems. Regular xp groups I have none unless I spam my dots,slow,incap to grab agro. Dont know but maybe theres a particular issue with the mobs in these higher end zones?
Thinking about when this AA will be used, one thing I keep coming back to is that an AE agro reduction would be very useful when I draw super-agro while slowing multi-pulls.
If they insist on leaving a DD/Stun component in it (and I'm not convinced that it is either needed, warranted, or really within the definition of our class) then that could remain single target.
ROLEPLAYING EXAMPLE:
Swarm of six charge. We DD/Stun one of them and all the other mobs turn to see WTF just happened to their budddy, forgetting that they were on their way to gnaw on our faces (hence decreasing agro).
Now on Lucy (9/7) the deaggro is a constant number. -750 Hate per rank, so -2250 at the third rank.
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spelllist.html?searchtext=roar+of+thunder
Game on,
QuoteROLEPLAYING EXAMPLE:
Swarm of six charge. We DD/Stun one of them and all the other mobs turn to see WTF just happened to their budddy, forgetting that they were on their way to gnaw on our faces (hence decreasing agro).
That's an AE stun =P
I think of it more like AE "Leave me alone!".
Looks like some of the recent changes are improvements, though.
Well, in light of what they just did to PoS, I'm not gonna hold my breath...
Yea...
Quote from: KromjrI seem to see alot of references to GoD mobs or higher planes mobs on raids with people having agro problems. Regular xp groups I have none unless I spam my dots,slow,incap to grab agro. Dont know but maybe theres a particular issue with the mobs in these higher end zones?
I have this problem too. The ammount of aggro we generate is insane on our spells. I stand next to wizzies who chain 5K+ nukes yet my plague and SV get me summoned. There is something wrong with this picture. There are several encounters where I only cast DPS spells. My DPS parses at less than half the wizzies I am with, but if the tank dies you can bet I am on switch duty (not that bad as long as the CH team is on the ball).
Quote from: negrismorte
I have this problem too. The ammount of aggro we generate is insane on our spells. I stand next to wizzies who chain 5K+ nukes yet my plague and SV get me summoned. There is something wrong with this picture. There are several encounters where I only cast DPS spells. My DPS parses at less than half the wizzies I am with, but if the tank dies you can bet I am on switch duty (not that bad as long as the CH team is on the ball).
Well... sadly those wizzies likely have scs & are chaining concussion after every SoS etc, so they get less agro/nuke & reduce agro after every cast... where we bsts do nothing but add agro. And scs wouldn't help us on much 'sides our nukes, if my info is correct abt scs having no effect upon spells with counters. Hell.. when I'm with bards now, I can often tell when the tick has passed bcs Turepta Blood gets me another shot of agro. Reason its raid-retired.
Quote from: KananWell... sadly those wizzies likely have scs & are chaining concussion after every SoS etc, so they get less agro/nuke & reduce agro after every cast... where we bsts do nothing but add agro. And scs wouldn't help us on much 'sides our nukes, if my info is correct abt scs having no effect upon spells with counters. Hell.. when I'm with bards now, I can often tell when the tick has passed bcs Turepta Blood gets me another shot of agro. Reason its raid-retired.
Like I said, there is something wrong with this picture. SCS and concussion are not aggro eliminators just reducers. There is no resaon we should get summoned for doing 1-2K damge per minute. Our raid DPS is already low enough without having to worry about casting a couple of almost trivial damage spells.
Are there any issues with overwriting other debuffs with this AA? I'm at work and can't go to lucy to check. :(