Changed Slot 8 from "Increase All Resists by 65" to "Increase All Resists
by 70"
Changed Slot 7 from "Increase ATK by 150" to "Increase ATK by 180" Added Slot 1: Illusion: Black Wolf Changed Unknown156 from -1 to 0
Changed Name from Beastial Alignment I to Bestial Alignment Removed Slot 6: Decrease Stamina Loss by 10
Changed Unknown156 from 0 to -1
Initial Entry
beastial aliment II
Changed Slot 8 from "Increase All Resists by 65" to "Increase All Resists by 70"
Changed Slot 7 from "Increase ATK by 150" to "Increase ATK by 180"
Added Slot 1: Illusion: Bear
Changed Name from Beastial Alignment II to Bestial Alignment II
Removed Slot 6: Decrease Stamina Loss by 10 Initial Entry
beatlial aliment III
Changed Slot 8 from "Increase All Resists by 65" to "Increase All Resists by 70"
Changed Slot 7 from "Increase ATK by 150" to "Increase ATK by 180"
Added Slot 1: Illusion: Unknown(91)
Changed Name from Beastial Alignment III to Bestial Alignment III
Removed Slot 6: Decrease Stamina Loss by 10
Initial Entry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you catch the illusion part looks like we able to turn into our warder with this AA
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/newspells.html?source=Test&date=2004-01-13%2004:19:59
Very nif-T... Finally makes it something I think most of us were hoping for.
-Seboa
Sounds ok its not the class defining ability it could be but guess it will be a fun toy.
I am saving AA (at 13 now) just for this and the Warder crits and Flury. I think we are one of the classes that are NOT getting the complete shaft with this expansion.
QuoteI think we are one of the classes that are NOT getting the complete shaft with this expansion.
I don't think any class is getting "the complete shaft". I think that is a rediculous statement entirely. Every class is gaining something desireable and there are changes to beta daily.
Regardless, stating any class is getting shafted a month before the expansion even goes live is short-sighted and foolish.
wrong forum.
This aa also has the 6.5 minute duration at 65 that ferocity does.
i want this ...i want to be a scale wolf along with my warder!!
there still a question.. what level you have to be to train this skill.... if i have to place a bet i would think it will be at level 55
Quoteif i have to place a bet i would think it will be at level 55
I'll take that bet... because there is no way access to an ability that mimics/improves upon a level 65 spell is going to be available before you even have access to AA class abilities.
Quote from: RhaynneQuoteif i have to place a bet i would think it will be at level 55
I'll take that bet... because there is no way access to an ability that mimics/improves upon a level 65 spell is going to be available before you even have access to AA class abilities.
This is almost for certain a 63,64,65 AA if it stays in it's current form.
Seeing as SOE is now giving us an AA similar to the Ranger AA wolf form, why not toss us a spell line of warder form also? Just a longlasting illusion (with or without SoW/atk) is all I really want. I would happily take the AA if they nerfed the non-illusion part and made it a maintainable illusion.
SoE knows this is something we have all wanted for a long time. So they are going to use it as more incentive to buy the expansion. IF we were to get a spell form of it, it would have to replace one of the other spells we are getting with the new expansion, which I don't think most people would like. ANd they can't just give us a spell thats available to all because there goes their incentive.
-Seboa
Wish it stacked with ferocity, that would be fun :D
Maybe someone can fill me in as I've never played a Shaman:
Will Illusion: Bear remove my ability to slam?
QuoteSoE knows this is something we have all wanted for a long time.
Not all of us. I think an illusion makes absolutely no sense at all and is one of the more rediculous requests that have been made over the years. I was hoping we'd never see this or tracking.
I will have interest in this if it can stack with Fero. If it doesnt it will go down on my list.
It is better than fero, and right now, it is a targetable ability, not self-only, which is interesting.
as if the tells to shrink my bear every raid werent enough now i to get to a) be as hugely annoying as my "shrunken" bear and b) get to return to a huge arse ogre when the illusion wears meaning more people are annoyed or more of my time is wasted shrinking myself. yay.... not
QuoteWill Illusion: Bear remove my ability to slam?
I can't speak for this AA ability but yes, you lose the ability to slam as a shaman when in bear form.
Lucy update: changed target from "single" to "self". :(
Oh well, not really shocking.
Heh, I was hoping =)
I would anyone, anyone at all, not want something added to their class? illusion, track, anything..... oh i understand, it takes me 1000 mana and 45 minutes to cast shrink on myself, I get it now. Some people get annoyed cause me or my warder are too big? well too bad.
Well illusion has now gone in for the all the aa's. Given that all the levels are the same it must be a reuse timer or duration that sets them apart.
Shere Khaan
or there still not finished with the tweaking?
~D~
QuoteI would anyone, anyone at all, not want something added to their class? illusion, track, anything..... oh i understand, it takes me 1000 mana and 45 minutes to cast shrink on myself, I get it now. Some people get annoyed cause me or my warder are too big? well too bad.
Some of us actually like the lore and basic foundation our class was created on and don't think it is necessary to add features that don't fit that concept.
Moreover, some of us also have consideration for the people we play with. I don't care how long or how much mana it takes to shrink: if it makes gameplay better for my friends and guildmates, then it's something that needs to be addressed. Just because you're obviously concerned more about your own experience than the experience of the people you play with doesn't mean the rest of us are that inconsiderate.
I don't think its too far from lore to have an illusion for beasts. We spend a lot of time with our warders and with animals in general. We are lords of all beasts, not just our warders, hence why we get the same animal faction as rangers and druids. We summon Spirits of animals to empower (stat boost) others and ourselves, this is just a more powerful imbuieing of animal spirit, so much so that it turns us into the animal.
Besides, if the lore can't be expanded how can they add any new abilities that aren't just slightly more powerful rehases of others?
-Seboa
The illusion part of this AA is just a toy, and an annoying toy at that. You might not mind not being shrunk when this toy wears off but for those of us who pretty much are continually shrunk on raids it becomes extremely bothersome to have to reshrink all the time. The illusion part of this AA will probably keep me from purchasing it until i have pretty much nothing left to purchase and then ill still only use it in exp groups.
The illusion is one the main reasons a lot of people will buy it. The bottom line is not every spell/aa is going to be for every person in every situation. Some AA's are great (bf/ca/scr/etc) and most will buy asap and wish they could get sooner.
Protection of calliav, Group infusion, and a bunch of other AA/spells are things that are "nice", things that some really want, things that are great here and there, and totally useless in other peoples eyes. Personally I think that's great. If you having to shrink is too much of a hassle for you then of course don't use it on a raid for the slightly better stats atm or whatever. For those people that would have spent 3(ish) AA just for illusion scalewolf/blackwolf/etc this is great. I honestly can't put an AA cost, adventure win # or whatever for what I'd give for my pet to look like he did before they changed DPoC again.
If it isn't for you then don't buy, the AA is far from useless and is *VERY* much in demand from other beastlords. Just like group infusion, just like protection and many other things in this game it's not for everyone though. *shrugs* have fun I need sleep hehe.
/agree Tastian
Since we still don't know what the re-use time and duration of this skill will be there's no point in arguing on whether or not this skill is merely a toy anyway
/hugs
Some of us do know, though. And in its current form it is completely worthless.
"Some of us do know, though. And in its current form it is completely worthless."...In *your* opinion for *you* period.
Others may be in the same boat as well. That doesn't make it completly worthless though. You know how many beastlords still want the huge buliding size warders back? Not everyone raids, not everyone is perma shrunk and not everyone will find having to re-shrink occasionally (if an issue) to be too major a detreiment to finally having the ability to take on the illusion of our warder and share that with them. A lot of people wanted warder illusion on frenzy of spirits. That's far from maintainable, but people still wanted. There are a few quirks to it that could definetly keep it from being great I certainly am not saying it's awesome. However, it is giving a lot of beastlords something they never had and wanted.
I'm not saying this AA is the best thing since SCR, I'm not saying for me it's remotely useful. However, I can say for a fact I personally know of dozens of bst who this will be their first AA when GoD hits. Even for them they may find they can't use it all the time. Heck there are some situations some beastlords don't even use their pets in because of guild/raids/mobs/situations.
My problem is just because it's not worth it for you and because of the "shrink" issue from as far as I can tell you have a major problem with this. This isn't an illusion being added to ferocity, this isn't an illusion being added to frenzy of spirits that you already had. If you don't want it, then don't buy it. Stat wise it's not a huge gain and I'd be willing to wager quite heavily that if not for the mass amount of request for illusions this AA wouldn't even exist. If not for the ability to grant illusion I can't foresee them adding an AA that slightly boosts fero. *shrugs*
This seems silly to me because it's not even an overall beastlord issue. A lot of beastlords want illusions, some don't. This allows people to get illusion if they want and others to go without if they so choose. Now someone show some situations where pet proc'n root is good please lol. This isn't an anti-pet root thing this is an honest question I've been thinking about it since it was changed and I can't come up with any reason to spend the AA on it shy of nothing else to get. Even hobble I can see uses for. Yet a lot of beastlords that have don't use hardly ever.
I'm with tastian on this..
i dont even consider this to be a raid-type aa, its just ferocity... it's more a fun toy type spell than anything else..
dont see how this would be a great raid spell, just being slightly better than ferocity...
heck it's still 90% ferocity, with minor modifications... they arn't done messing with it yet i dont think
they could make it perma illusion
with no benifits
and i would get it
i actually hope they go for a more Gaurdian of the Grove approach
with spell haste and a mana regen over time like Paragon...so you could burst nuke~! yeah thats it...burst nuking...
go all wizard and stuff...
I think a big argument for non concern is that we don't know the duration yet.
1) It's an AA, but right now it is listed as having a mana cost (the same as fero.) As far as I know AA's don't have mana costs at all, so that clearly suggests they aren't done tinkering with the ability yet.
2) Being self only, assuming they intend for the reuse timer to be less than the duration, there is no reason they can't give it a long duration though not permenant. If they remove the mana cost as well then there would really be no reason not to give the ability a long duration.
If its a long term duration, you won't need to recast shrink unless it is dispelled.
Additionally there is no telling what size warder illusion you will become when you use it. Ogres have the most to worry about, other races even at level 64 (poor trolls) don't have warders that are THAT big. If they take some time to work with it properly (and our fellow BL's in the beta do some feedback) the size of the illusion can be set to a resonable magnitude.
-Seboa
Have to agree with Rhaynne.
In it's current form there are so many things wrong with it there's no point buying. Of course that could all change by launch provided beta testers do /feedback and report the problemsand SoE makes adjustments. The Duration is shorter then Ferocity, the recast is approximately 60 times longer (seriously). In it's current state Ferocity is superior. Illusion is eye candy, yes most of us like eye candy, but once the candy loses it's flavor you tend to spit it out and never touch it again.
QuoteThe Duration is shorter then Ferocity, the recast is approximately 60 times longer (seriously). In it's current state Ferocity is superior.
Quote from: beastial alignment 31: Illusion: Unknown(63)
5: Increase STA by 40
7: Increase ATK by 180
8: Increase All Resists by 70
Quote from: Ferocity5: Increase STA by 40
7: Increase ATK by 150
8: Increase All Resists by 65
I could be wron but 180 is > 150 right?
Quote from: Wild Lord's Sandalshttp://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5466
That's a very easy shrink that I use all the time =P.
Ferocity is better spent on rogues and extremely well geared monks for DPS purposes. This not only gives you the option of keeping 4 of them fero'ed(with buff extensions) but yourself as well.
If you want I'll post raid parsings to prove I'm right too =P. The two times I ever fero myself on a raid is when I need resists not attack.
But mind you my view of this comes from a raiding perspective, I rarely use my BST outside of raids except recently just to get 30 aa banked for god.
The duration if beastial alignment is what make Fero superior.
Yes beastial alignment has slightly more atk and slighty more resists.
And his point made about the shrink issue is the same issue as it is with Vahshir and Barb Warder, even shrunk you are still friggin huge.
I feed back the same concerns on beastial alignment myself.
In its current form its nothing more than a toy, not a useful AA.
QuoteThis not only gives you the option of keeping 4 of them fero'ed(with buff extensions) but yourself as well.
No it doesnt :), i wont explain why atm
Well with extension foci you can keep 4 people feroed(I 4 box so yes I know it doesn't fade =P).
Psh, I can only keep 3 of them fero'd. Snarl needs her fero loving, too! :lol:
What Konj is saying is that you can't keep 4 people Fero'd *AND* keep yourself BA'd atm. I'm not sure if he bothered with the higher ranks of BA yet or not, last I knew he only had rank one.
The problem a lot of people seem to be over looking is how beefy Fero is both in stats and in mana cost. If for 3AA you could sustain Fero on yourself that's like ~FT10(base) on one AA. It'd be nuts plain and simple. However, because of how they have decided to add illusion through this beefed up fero it leads to other problems. Like the mana cost balancing, like duration/etc. As it stands now this illusioned fero is more of a frenzy of spirits type of AA, unforunatly a lot of people run fero constantly. If this overwrites, lasts less time than fero and then fades you'll have people clicking the AA, losing Fero, losing shrink, then having to re-shrink/re-fero after it fades because you can't sustain it atm. That's a lot of problems for a lot of people.
I really felt they had two options for the illusion.
1) Short duration power buff. This is like Frenzy of spirits, it's like what it is now, if it stacks with everything. In that case you click it, go postal, it fades, you have refresh time. Blah blah blah
2) Longer duration, sustainable, wolf form of sorts. In this case putting major stats on it like Fero has blows the mana cost/efficency curve. What I honestly think would be better in this case is adding the chagne form AA and adding a proc. Rank 1 - 50dd, Rank 2 - 100 dd, rank 3 - 100dd + rellic(ish) stun.
By having the effects at different levels (with all sustainable) you now have people able to cast illusion and then shrink and not worry about it shy of dispell. You have minor boost to damage, stun is useful for some, however, others will have aggro issues, putting this at the last rank allows people to decide if they want it or not.
There are going to be some issues regardless of what is done with it though. The proc route has some issues with NDT and people that use other items that add procs already. Even a long duration (sustainable meaning long enough duration and a low enough refresh to allow for zoning and re-buffing on random dispells) warder illusion that takes on atk, mana regen, wisdom, saves, etc some combination of those stats would be very sought after.
Regardless of what the AA is though some will get it just for the illusion. I understand in it's current form it might be a far cry from what is "useful" or high powered or highly sought after. If it actually does operate in a way that it wipes fero and fades fast causing the shrink/rebuff issue then it's extremely situational, but it's still something. Right now I have to say I'm leaning toward a longer lasting, sustainable illusion that works like wolf form (feral form for rangers from LDoN is a decent example or even mana wolfie for druids in the mid-50's). *shrugs* Can make it 1 rank if they want, or scale it for 3, or of course just keep it how it is, but a lot like Feral swipe I think this is an AA that a *lot* of beastlords want, that could be very sought after and enjoyed without being crazy over powering if they'd just tweak it some. Again, thanks for all your help beta-bst and hopefully we can get a few of glaring kinks worked out before this goes live.
Quote from: TastianWhat I honestly think would be better in this case is adding the chagne form AA and adding a proc. Rank 1 - 50dd, Rank 2 - 100 dd, rank 3 - 100dd + rellic(ish) stun.
By having the effects at different levels (with all sustainable) you now have people able to cast illusion and then shrink and not worry about it shy of dispell. You have minor boost to damage, stun is useful for some, however, others will have aggro issues, putting this at the last rank allows people to decide if they want it or not.
WTF......?
Dear God I hope not (period)
________________________________________________________________
In its current state - I agree BA is pointless ( and I hope they consider the /feedbacks )
Stacking with Fero or Sav ? I vote No.
150 atk > 180 atk ...... the bonus 30 attack is not going to save the world, and one could die of old age waiting to use it again.
The concept is good and beastial alignment CAN BE beneficial, for the casual and non casual beast, IF the timer was more practical.
/feedback : 8 min recast time or better & add +40 to Endurance and decrease Endurance loss by 10. (illusion is fine)If this AA remains in its current state - I'd rather invest my hard hours of sweat & grind toward Pack Rat or innate enduring breath.
I have done /feedback with same points daily myself.
Just hope to see some lucy changes soon.
Note:Dont even get me going on Feral Swipe, you think this AA is worthless..sheesh
Kil, what I was getting at is I feel like a lot of people are seeing this AA differently. Some see it as fero, some illusion, some toy, etc. I honestly feel like BA was overshot, but undershot. No one was asking for an improved fero AA, people wanted illusion. Now we have an AA that gives illusion, but improves upon fero, but there are some problems that come about because of this.
Look at the mage AA elemental forms, nothing major, they adjusted refresh and they are decent, fun, useful AA's for the most part. I would love to have an AA fero with illusion and if they get the refresh time down I can definetly see this AA just moving way up the "to get" list.
Hrmmmm ok bad example incoming, but if shaman hadn't had bear form (greater bear form) and wanted illusion bear and Rabid bear is what they added it wouldn't have gone over to well. Instead form of the great bear (long duration, some wisdom, some hp regen) would have fit a bit better. Now the stats and stuff that could use some tweaking, but my point is the intent of the AA in my opinion was illusion, that's what's gained, there are a lot of ways to gain +atk/saves, but there is only *one* AA that gives illusion currently. With my mention of a proc, mana regen, assorted stats or even just the +'s over fero that this form currently gives you can bring home the illusion portion of the AA, have it still be sought after by a lot and avoid the balancing issues that come with tacking on huge stats and working around mana cost/efficency/etc.
Again, I don't mind how they are going about this, but if it comes down to having a version as is that many feel doesn't work well, verse changing the approach and still getting the illusion that many wanted (again what I feel the main point was /shrug) then I think that's the way to go. Please don't think I'm trying to go againist any of the beta testers though or anything and I appreciate them /feedbacking and trying to get things as good/bug free/ etc for us as they can. Hopefully this week they'll just lower the refresh and it'll be a very good overall AA for beastlords *shrugs* few more weeks, should be interesting.
Beta people...
Be careful.. REUSE TIME IS NOT publicly accessable information, so please dont make mentions of it ;-)
NDA is the only contract I uphold in this board, mainly because sony cares more about the NDA then the EULA for the most part... and the NDA exists for a -very- good reason...
first and formost, it tries to lessen the 'scare' of new abilities not being what people want, and the resulting out cry (before ANYONE even has the ability to see what it -actually- does)
So, just saying for the 2nd time.. (last time for the 'thread' i hope).... Please keep information limited to PUBLICLY ACCESSABLE information.. check your post before you make it please..
*checks his post* *removes a comment* *posts*
Also note, that as of yet, I have not deleted/edited out information in anyones post, I'm trying to be fair, and nothing has been a complete break of the NDA yet...
I'm in the camp of "want a warder illusion" and always thought track was a natural ablility for BST(if not for balance issues). Its seems sow, atk or regens would go well with such an ability as seen in other classes.
The idea of a burst of atk with the illusion sounds cool at first - but the game limits on shrink make it unfeasable for many. As a Vah Shir, I am shrunk most of the time as are many of the larger races. I have high hopes for this AA and hope it gets a revamp.
I would be much much happier with a long term illusion with a little atk/mana/hp/proc or some such effect even though the current AA would be cool if it didnt kill shrink.
Just one opinion in many.... and not in the beta.
Quote from: DiosTBeta people...
Be careful.. REUSE TIME IS NOT publicly accessable information, so please dont make mentions of it ;-)
NDA is the only contract I uphold in this board, mainly because sony cares more about the NDA then the EULA for the most part... and the NDA exists for a -very- good reason...
first and formost, it tries to lessen the 'scare' of new abilities not being what people want, and the resulting out cry (before ANYONE even has the ability to see what it -actually- does)
So, just saying for the 2nd time.. (last time for the 'thread' i hope).... Please keep information limited to PUBLICLY ACCESSABLE information.. check your post before you make it please..
*checks his post* *removes a comment* *posts*
From Lucy:
[code:1]Mana: 600 Casting Time: 3
Recast Time: 120 Fizzle Time: 2.25
Range: 100 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Interruptable: Yes
Short Buff Box: No Target Type: Single
Spell Type: Beneficial Source: Live 12/19[/code:1]
Hmm... Looks like recast time is 120. Publicly available.
2hrs is way to long and I feedback it everytime I log into beta. 6.5 mins is way too short as well. Especially considering how many aa you spend to get Bestial Alignment III.
I was always under the impression that that re-use times on Lucy were in seconds, and that has generally seemed to hold up. So, Lucy-wise, the ability is tied to a two-minute reuse, however the way AAs are coded proably supercedes the two-minutes assigned to the effect itself.
Quote from: SilresaI was always under the impression that that re-use times on Lucy were in seconds, and that has generally seemed to hold up. So, Lucy-wise, the ability is tied to a two-minute reuse, however the way AAs are coded proably supercedes the two-minutes assigned to the effect itself.
Ahhh... You are probably right. So everyone forget I mentioned 2hr recast. Oops. I did it again!!!
The below information is taken directly from Lucy. If the information from Test is not what is actually in beta, then obviously the below argument will not be valid. However, until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume that the information is valid.
And no, I'm not in the beta, so take your talk of NDAs elsewhere. =P
The links to this information are:
Bestial Alignment III (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4526&source=Test)
Ferocity (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3463&source=Test)
Quote from: CringerThe Duration is shorter then Ferocity
The duration on Ferocity is fixed at 6.5 minutes.
The duration on Bestial Alignment III is 1 ticks @L1 to 6.5 mins @L65.
Anyone that was 65th level would have a duration for BA III of 6.5 minutes, which is identical to the duration of Ferocity.
Quote from: Cringerthe recast is approximately 60 times longer (seriously)
Ferocity and BAIII both have a recast time of 120.
Quote from: CringerIn it's current state Ferocity is superior.
In the state listed on Test, BAIII gives the same amount of stamina, 5 more points of resist all, and 30 more attack. So based on that and the above, it appears that BAIII is superior in all ways to Ferocity except that I'm going to have to shrink myself every time I use it.
Again, this is all based on the assumption that the Lucy information from the Test server matches the spell being used in the Beta. If it doesn't... well, say so. =P
They don't match.....
All I'll say on that until feb 10th..
but from what i have heard form other bst i know this total sucks as it is in current form.
As it was put to me this is only good for birthday parties and thats it
if they dont do something to change it i for one will not get this untill i have no choice but to spend AA's somewhere