In a few months, there will be another release of AAs to go along w/ Underfoot.
Please put (sensible) ideas here, and I will edit them into a list for Elidroth.
Please notice that this is for AAs only, and not spells. Keep in mind class balance, and things that have some actual chance of passing developer scrutiny.
placeholder
placeholder
placeholder
placeholder
Pet Swarm AA buff...Basically what they gave fluffy in Undefoot that got axed cause of the "assign to owner" issue and the fact it caused lag in raids...Would love to see this as a Purchased AA that goes in our buff slot that allows us to Proc pets with out needing the PoFire H2H weapon or the Aug from LDoN (or any other pet procing item their may be). Mabye this will still go in Underfoot 1.0 release :wink:
I also would like to see some form of AA weapon proc or a range of them where only one can be active at a time.
- Gelid Claw (the proc from the Mace of Grim Tidings) is one I would like as it would also give them scope for growth in future expansions.
- A proc that lowers aggro is another idea that most raiders might like...
An AA that works like a reverse Pet affinity AA maybe that lets us share some percentage of our Warders buffs. Could be easy to make overpowered though.
QuotePet Swarm AA buff...Basically what they gave fluffy in Undefoot that got axed cause of the "assign to owner" issue
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11580#p144570 (http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11580#p144570)
It sounds like there's still a chance it will go live.
My biggest one, though it would require code, is an AA to make swarm pets controllable. Enc get something similar with Animation Empathy - I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to make our commands "broadcast" to all of our pets. Dunno though.
-Jolt of some sort (think it's on Elidroth's list already, though)
-Protective Spirit duration increase AA
-Extended duration/Quickened recast on Yowl pets
1) A cheap AA to make pact persist through zoning would be nice..
2) relocate companion:behind - to save the turning your back to a mob to position your pet.
3) endurance regen (yeah yeah but maybe if we keep on for long enough it may happen like pet def)
4) swarm pet extension and recast timers (see rumbling servant)
5) Aa to make savage ferocity an aura.
6) ability to let our pets use our finishing blow ability.
It's a little early yet to talk about the next round, since we don't have the final release yet of UF AA, but...
Hastened asp/raven/gorilla might be nice.
May be pipe dream, but an aa to increase chance of getting 4 pet spawn from yowl. Could be either a passive increase or activateable on reasonable reuse timer.
Quote from: trixbro on November 30, 2009, 05:46:57 PM
May be pipe dream, but an aa to increase chance of getting 4 pet spawn from yowl. Could be either a passive increase or activateable on reasonable reuse timer.
good idea but /pass on more hotkeys :) passive FTW :)
hastened Roar of Thunder (like hasten it a lot)
I like the make swarm pets controllable idea too...
Fero as an Aura would rock but id like to see Fero get some kinda heroic stat increase like resists or str/sta then it would be worth while and bsts would be a dps group member more often :)
It would be nice, but the only difference on existing ranks of the yowl lines are the % chance increase chances of a swarm. Yes, it should stack, so that rk3 still has it's extremely small edge over the other 2 ranks.. but look at how small the % increases are: 2% increase per rank.
Off top of my head remembering of 400 dps per pet (300 may be the correct figure), each rank gives an add'l 2% of 1200 dps (add'l % chance x add'l 3 pets @ 400 dps each), or 24 more dps in the long run per rank increase
The most they'd give us would be 2% per rank, 3 ranks, or another 72 dps.
Gimme more swarm extension. That's a much larger dps increase.
Ferocity should be confined to spell discussion, not AAs.
but an AA that gave us a fero aura would be an AA not a spell :P
It's an AA that will never be developed. We need to try to get Ferocity fixed through the spell dev, not back-doored in through Elidroth. From his comments in beta also, he would specifically not do this since it's stepping on Raramor's toes.
I wish someone would just pick up the beast issues and run with them rather than everyone not do anything as its "someone elses".
It sucks as a spell, it would rock as an aura. Make it an AA? Change teh spell .. hmm. Granted theres 2 issues, *either* of those would work but here as you say isn't the place for spell discussions. But if it was an AA...
/moves on
RE-railing --> AA's
The developers are unable to take much action independently - everything gets passed by the team before implementation. So, nobody is able to really run w/ our issues without convincing the rest of the group.
an aa that procs pets like the fabled pet weapon.
imbues our weapons with the chance to proc pets.
like a spellbuff aa or song aa
its really a bst thing since we got load of pet aa and melee also.
i am in favour of this one going alive for us.
is that third spire of the beastlord fixed?
lets get them work on it
the third spire should be the top one in added dps
lets get that fixed
and make it also a usable groupdps tool
we can ask for new aa but when our coolest old aa are broken let these be fixed first
and then giver us also some usefull new aa
Quote from: rhaug on December 01, 2009, 06:39:02 PM
an aa that procs pets like the fabled pet weapon.
imbues our weapons with the chance to proc pets.
like a spellbuff aa or song aa
its really a bst thing since we got load of pet aa and melee also.
i am in favour of this one going alive for us.
If we can't get the pet's to be able to proc add'l pets themselves, I think this is a perfectly good alternative.
Issue: how will magi be able to gain/use the ability too, since they're "pet masters"?
I believe 3rd spire "works", but it's return is pathetic. There's a thread discussing the dps gains from each of the spires (the one that had the surprise that 2nd was actually best dps for us of the 3).
Last I used it a few months ago, it definitely did not stack with shaman 3rd spire.
It doesn't not work....it just sucks.
AA Cripple with upgraded power for today's content would be cool too.
Easy to sell
1) zone with Pact (and shrinks)
2) I like the chance to increase Yowl's 4proc
3) Another rank of Pact that allows for color changes to WW form (possibly fixed to the color of BP or a choice between Yowl/Howl/etc colors)
Hard to sell (but not FD/CH/fade stupidity)
4) AA that allows for the color change of Yowl WWs/Warders
5) AAs to raise cap on mod2s
Possibly in the realm of FD/CH/fade stupidity
6) a minor track (I'd drop a shitload of AAs to have even a gimp track)
*I am also in favor of passive AAs. I am running out of hotkey room.
*Someone had a nice writeup on the implementation of totems for bsts (similar to shms and WoW). This could be incorporated in line with possible Spire additions.
*I think the pet proc AA is more in the realm of a disc. Just my opinion, but it might be easier to sell it there.
*I could care less about how other classes view our AAs; mages got a wis based heal for pets, ranjas got a single pull AA and extra durability to act as a 4th "tank".
*I'd rather not bitch too much about bugged AAs; devs might get around to fixing some that I don't want fixed (feral kick). I'll take less damage on 3rd spire if it means I stay immune to enrage.
Let's see....ideas...
Extended Yowl
Quickened Yowl
Hastened Yowl
Increased % to get 4 pets on Yowl
Another rank of feral swipe (save hastened for another expansion)
Focused Paragon upgrades that don't suck
Quickened Focused Paragon
I'd like a frenzied burnout type AA as a pet burst AA
An AA that functions to burst our spell damage, increase crit damage is easy option
Extended protection (+tick on protective spirit)
Extended fury (+tick(s) on Empathic Fury)
Jolt line without any debuff/dd/dot/stun tied to it, short recast
Hastened asp/raven/gorilla
JOLT JOLT JOLT - give it an endurance or mana cost I don't care, more deagro please.
AA to proc every round (like ranger UF AA)
Pet twin proc
"Escape" AA - they're giving it out all over the place, not as outlandish as it used to be
easy ones but why not ask...
more burst of power and beastial fury pls?
Bsts imo could stand to raise a couple more notches on the dps ladder this expansion!
Quote from: Hzath on December 02, 2009, 04:59:16 AM
"Escape" AA - they're giving it out all over the place, not as outlandish as it used to be
Yeah, I thought it was kinda funny how no one really wanted to ask for FD, this would have been the expansion to get it. Rangers, Shaman, Zerkers... it's hip to be fading.
can agree with these
"easy ones but why not ask...
more burst of power and beastial fury pls?
Bsts imo could stand to raise a couple more notches on the dps ladder this expansion!"
more ranks in double attacks and flurry are very needed.
wish the pet defensive fix also is combined with a offensive fix.
I can see increased flurry chances.. but has someone checked our DA rate? Especially with the max % Ferocity foci? I'm willing to bet that we're closing in on stage where it would require massive skill cap increases to see much return.
The DA formula: (Level + skill)/500.
Our first skill point back at (I think it was) 75 = (75 + 1)/500 = 15.2%
Our present DA rate, pure skill based: (75+75)/500 = 30
Ferocity foci max increase is 18%.
They're not going to increase this as monks, for sure, are already basically at 100% DA rate and iirc, rangers are there too.
Bestial frenzy is 5% per rank, again, iirc. We're at 10 ranks. That's 50% rate. Add the present skill.. that makes us at 80%. Assumption here: ferocity is additive to that existing %: we're now at 98% (50% BF + 30% DA Skill + 18% Ferocity).
If the assumption is wrong, 80% * 18% = 14.4% increase or a new total of 94.4%. Still very close to 100%.
Lets ask for more triples. (I don't know that formula and doubt that it's the same as DA)
I'm still a fan of more extended swarm, since that's prolly our best bang for the buck on dps.
Yeah.. improving fpos would be very nice indeed.
It would be nice to get a pulling tool like so many other classes that are not pulling classes are getting. /shrug.. don't care what.. just some tool would be nice again. I was never really good at the pet pulling before it was fixed, but we definitely would be able to pull it off a lil easier nowadays with the pet DA ;p
Bestial Perseverance 1/2/3/4
Passive ability.
Reduces group endurance (and mana) cost for 5/10/15/20%.
Good for groupers and low dps guilds. It would be nice utility for beasts out there as we does not seems to get paragon like endurance regen. It would be nice unique addon and would make bsts more wanted both group and raidwise.
-Raz
I'd like to see the Pact of Wurine AA without the illusion. The current version can remain, just provide another option for those tired of being a werewolf.
Quote from: Nimbin on December 02, 2009, 08:12:49 PM
I'd like to see the Pact of Wurine AA without the illusion. The current version can remain, just provide another option for those tired of being a werewolf.
Would love this.
/ralph
heh.. jk.. i do love not having to see movement of my screen since I play in first person all the time.
That's my indicator that I forgot to hit wurine tbh.. i hit attack & my PoV starts wobbling.
Bestial Frenzy is 3% per rank, or 30% for 10 ranks of it. We are around 65-68% DA with highest Fero mod.
Quote from: kharthai on December 02, 2009, 09:37:36 AM
Quote from: Hzath on December 02, 2009, 04:59:16 AM
"Escape" AA - they're giving it out all over the place, not as outlandish as it used to be
Yeah, I thought it was kinda funny how no one really wanted to ask for FD, this would have been the expansion to get it. Rangers, Shaman, Zerkers... it's hip to be fading.
Welcome to EQ. My question would be how many CL's those classes have talking into the developers ears.
Well if we can't get FD, mabye we can get Fade AA also?
AAs:
-Savage Ferocity Aura.
-Passive SoW speed for pets.
-Pet Mind Control (control pet for X secs/mins)
-Pet illusions (new models and would persist through zoning)
-Pact illusions (would persist through zoning)
Most others have already been mentioned.
Some kind of Jolt would be my number 1 aa concern right now. Along with a Flurry AA. We're not that far behind in sustained dps, and will have to test with the new spells on the burst. But, something along the lines of burst dps for sure. Jolt would make the new Chilling Venom worth casting a bit more.
I forgot to mention - Increased de-aggro on Roar line compared to the nuke value attached to it. I threw it in with a chat with Elidroth but he never got back to me, was most likely too busy.
And am I the only one who doesn't want more swarms? I'm glad Prolific Minion didn't go in, its already a parsers nightmare when a billion pets are out, lets not add another billion!
Oh, and since I finally got activation email, wanted to hollar out to Lilpiggy, Hzath, and Bumkus who did a lot of beta testing / parsing and stuff! -Daus
Jolting kicks - for reducing agro further to be able to chain Frozen Venom in full burn perhaps..
Pet Twinproc - Would be a nice addition since our warder is who is doing the most proccing anyways, not us.
more DA, TA
Flurries
I second these said already too:
AA to proc every round (like ranger UF AA)
Increased % to get 4 pets on Yowl
Extended protection (+tick on protective spirit)
Extended fury (+tick(s) on Empathic Fury)
"Escape" AA - they're giving it out all over the place, not as outlandish as it used to be
Though, above all else I wish we could be given some sort of desireable and unique raid utility..where paragon fails, maybe something entirely new.
But I don't really see it happening, so all we can do is ask for more dps I guess.
is the ranger proc aa something worth for us to get?
they got a 18 seconds procpower boost.
guess we dont have a special proc aa to benefit so much from it? like rangers have extra procs?
Not really. Maybe if it applied to our pet.
New warder graphics?
Necros got new look for their pet, why not us /grin
We are beast lords. Should have the best pets in the game or be able to control more than one. How about a dire charm for animals of any level that last as long as we want it to. And not a nerfed one like the charms that work for druids or chanters. When they charm a mob it all of sudden gets weak.
kk.. coupla things:
1) Dire Charm has sucked since approx PoP era. Dire charm = perma-charm while in zone. It only works on mobs up to level 46 though, i.e. the mobs that were light blue back when we were 65.
2) You'll never see us as the "Best" pet class. The magi have this one pinned down, period. We should be 2nd best on pet quality and best pet healers (we lost that latter ability last expansion unfortunately for magi to be allowed to match us, albeit at a weaker heal for all)
/boot Dire Charm idea. I doubt there's any chanters made in the last 3 years who've wasted any AA on that ability. Lord.. stay realistic.. better charm than chanters... we've never had that in our class premise, why should it come out of the blue?
Quote from: Kanan on December 15, 2009, 02:18:03 PMLord.. stay realistic.. better charm than chanters... we've never had that in our class premise, why should it come out of the blue?
Well, not entirely true. In old days there was a way to charm snow bunnies and buff them with bst buffs, which used to raise pet level. When charm fade level boost stayed and those mobs were killers. It was nasty surprice to fellow bunny killers. Worked on lions and etc in EC too. :D
How ever I don't think we are gonna get the best charm in game.
Maybe we could ask for longish recast FD or Fade as rangers have fade too.
-Raz
Warder's Sacrifice
Must have a warder alive to activate
100% drop agro
Invis
Warder dies
15-30min refresh
Write some lore crap about warder using all his energy in an attempt to help us escape from danger, sacrificing himself in the process.
There's my official pitch for our escape AA. With all the see invis and dangerous areas in this expansion being able to drop agro once every so often when traveling around for quests would be extremely helpful. Loses some luster on raids having to kill the warder to drop agro, but it would still be awesome having the option to drop agro rather than die if a tank splats.
Dire Charm is denied for upgrades every expansion by developers. No reason to think we'd get it added to our class now.
Quote from: Hzath on December 15, 2009, 06:36:32 PM
Warder's Sacrifice
...
There's my official pitch for our escape AA. With all the see invis and dangerous areas in this expansion being able to drop agro once every so often when traveling around for quests would be extremely helpful.
I agree. Pet death is a decent downside idea too.
I'd prefer a FD to a fade, there's plenty of lore there with animals feigning death, and obviously our monk roots (whether that counts for anything these days I couldn't say). But either would be nice.
shammy get a ring with fd clicky and totem escape aa, monks get fd. both parent classes, surely we learned something ? . FD ftw!
Quote from: Hzath on December 15, 2009, 06:36:32 PM
Warder's Sacrifice
Must have a warder alive to activate
100% drop agro
Invis
Warder dies
15-30min refresh
Write some lore crap about warder using all his energy in an attempt to help us escape from danger, sacrificing himself in the process.
There's my official pitch for our escape AA. With all the see invis and dangerous areas in this expansion being able to drop agro once every so often when traveling around for quests would be extremely helpful. Loses some luster on raids having to kill the warder to drop agro, but it would still be awesome having the option to drop agro rather than die if a tank splats.
Great idea imo. We lose some dps ability with the death of the pet and get to dump agro. Yes, we can have a pet in our pocket to whip out almost immediately thereafter, but it'll give us some really good incentive to use that pocketing AA more than we presently do. I haphazardly use Suspend minion. If this ability were around, it would become rote really fast to get a pet up, haste & proc buff it, suspend & then get the other out to fully buff.
Summon Companion AA, like the spell, currently summons your pet if it's not on a hate list.
A second rank could summon your pet regardless of hate status.
A third rank could summon your pet and remove it from mobs hate lists.
Quote from: Nusa on December 16, 2009, 03:29:39 PM
A third rank could summon your pet and remove it from mobs hate lists.
Pet pulling might see this given a long re use time.
Mages off course will scream because they should get it and no one else and monks will most likely oppose the idea.
I like it :evil:
Been thinking it over for a while, and here's my revised wish list :)
Jolting kicks AA
weapon mastery AA
Flurries - with our weak triple atk skill this wouldn't make our break anything much
FD/FADE AA - any way of losing agro...
more DA, TA
Pet Twinproc AA
Maybe we should start puting together a list at some point, to give to devs when that time comes?
if the devs are bored, also some more useful ouput to /pet report would be nice. .. seeing what slots your pet has equipment in would make equipping them somewhat less "did I give it x and y already".
Also a nice ability to switch between pocket and current pet. and/or an ability to remove the pocket pet without affecting the current one.
FD FD FD! :D
why not?
Quote from: Karve on December 17, 2009, 12:15:03 PM
if the devs are bored, also some more useful ouput to /pet report would be nice. .. seeing what slots your pet has equipment in would make equipping them somewhat less "did I give it x and y already".
Also a nice ability to switch between pocket and current pet. and/or an ability to remove the pocket pet without affecting the current one.
Hmm, a pet inventory screen could be nice...and AAs that make the items persist even on warders death?
So when you summon a new one, it'll have the inventory set saved, and applied onto the new pet :)
Hey...I duno how realistic it is that they'd actually implement something like this....but I'd like this /grin
1 i would like to see that pet defencive upgraded it is only 5% and doesn't even stack with cleric vie i think that's what you call it.
2 pet dps is still poor it needs loving also
3 maybe a flurry line most other classes have it
4 more double and triple attack
5 maybe a few seconds added to our normal defencive disc 10 or 12 seconds is not that long really
i wish for a pulling tool from us or our pet
fd for the pet or something like that
or a paci that work on animal and insect
Too many vah shir Beastlords -- it's like herding cats...
I hate working in point form thing - the current version of beastlord mods is sitting at 20,000+ words. Of course it covers a lot of ground beyond AAs and spells, but while its possible to break it up into sections that fit in the different categories here , I think it it's better presented all together.
Couple of AAs that do spring to mindthat arent quite so intrinsic to it are :
Burst of Might - Each Rank increases the double attack cap by 5. So that double attack stays ahead of triple attack.
Feral Frenzy - Each rank increases the chance of a triple attack by 3%. This way our multiple attack skills follow the same format.
Flurry - We're the only melee/hybrid that doesn't get this now I think, so we should get it. SKs get flurry and so do their pets, we should too, instead of it ending up in the "every class within an archetype, except beastlord" category like some abilities do.
Increased attack range/reverse strike - the ability to hit targets further away with melee\the ability to strike mobs to the flanks and rear with both regular attacks and ripostes with different ranks.
I'll have to finish tidying up that article and post it soon.
hmm, a passive AA, that let the warder take the hits for us, sometimes?
Feral Protective Instincts
Like a 15% chance warder will take the damage, or some of it...instead of us, while meleeing.
Would help on those hard hiting UF mobs, as our pet heals ar far better than targeted one :)
What about an upgrade to suspend minion to allow a second pet to be suspended?
My picks would be (based on what we got in UF round 1, and hopefully the idea that it would be easier to convince them to give us new ranks of stuff over completely new AAs)
Things I could see happening and wondering how you guys feel:
-Destructive Cascade - increases dot crit damage, necro/shaman/sk have it (why don't we, actually?)
-Burst of Power//Double Attack//Flurry - I think this is the best way to up Beastlord damage. We have low caps in all these skills compared to other classes and I think a little raising wouldn't hurt. It isn't like you see OMGWTF@Beastlord dps all over the place.
-More ranks of Paragon/F. Paragon- I really, really want people to want this buff from us. I end up casting this on myself 99% of the time because nobody asks for it.
-Jolt, durr, why don't we have one again? I pull aggro over our berserkers/rogues/rangers all the time and it is starting to feel silly. I don't think our dps is so :mrgreen: that we need to be limited by aggro at this point.
I feel like our AAs are probably going to need to be more dps focused, personally, with the exception of paragon. Our utility should be spell-based, as our utility spells are pretty damned weak and I don't want to go grinding out AAs just to make up for it (and it sounds like Eldiroth doesn't want to get up in his coworkers business).
Quote from: Hamtarro on January 11, 2010, 07:53:40 AM
I feel like our AAs are probably going to need to be more dps focused, personally, with the exception of paragon. Our utility should be spell-based, as our utility spells are pretty damned weak and I don't want to go grinding out AAs just to make up for it (and it sounds like Eldiroth doesn't want to get up in his coworkers business).
We did ask for double/triple/flurry etc in beta, were turned down. Paragon was upped from what it was, I kind of doubt he's willing to go further with it this expansion (focused, maybe). Frozen venom was changed from no recast to 4.5 sec because it was too much dps... not Elidroth's decision but it seems they are content where our dps is.
Utility being spell based is silly, there are plenty of utility aa's, and it's unlikely (well, I've heard nothing) we'll be seeing new spells with the additional AA, so you're basically saying no utility additions til next expansion. Elidroth not wanting to step on Rara's toes I think was more specific to Ferocity and people asking for a group fero aa.
Not saying I wouldn't like some dps stuff, but when I look at rangers and what they have in their utility toolbox as a fellow dps hybrid it just blows me away. I know, I know, go make a ranger Kharthai.
Sorry, I didn't clarify correctly, when I was talking about double attack/triple attack I really meant Bestial Frenzy/Burst of Power AAs, which we receive a decent number of ranks in round one, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't at least ask for more ranks in round two.
I'm not trying to come off as one of those gung-ho let's turn the beastlord class into dps-only. Although, I was under the impression that the reason Frozen Venom was given a 4.5 second cooldown wasn't because it was too much dps, but because it was too much dps relative to our other spells, which would have caused us to just chain cast Frozen Venom over our older cold nukes/dots in some cases. I could be wrong, though, I didn't follow the beta as closely as I should (I got into beta maybe a week before release :|)
I just am not sure what all more utility AA we really could use (when I think utility, I think a skill/niche that you bring to a group/raid/whatever that said group/raid/etc. would find an asset, perhaps that isn't the correct definition in this context). I mean we have Slow, Raven's Claw, Paragon/Focused, SE, I don't really see off the top of my head anything we could really go for in that area, other than perhaps a feign death but if it isn't on a short cooldown I don't see it being much more than a once in a while gimmick until a year or so down the road when they give us hastened feign to sell the next expansion. I'd love more utility, not knockin' it, I'm just not sure what we could ask for.
As for utility being spell-based, I'm really not sure what you mean by it being "silly." Sure, we aren't expecting new spells with underfoot 2.0, but we should at least keep trying to get Ferocity bumped up to something that is useful. I can sure as hell promise you it won't happen if we don't.
One idea I had the other day, and I'm not even sure if EQ's code could allow for it, would be a new uhhh, well I want to say "Focused Focused Paragon" :wink: but basically I was thinking an AA that gives a 10% chance per rank (perhaps up to 30% max?) for our Paragon/Focused Paragon spell to also have a Promised-Healing like effect that goes off when Paragon expires, that gives X% of the mana/hp as an instant heal.
some good thoughts,
some way to Dump agro be nice altho FD i personaly wouldet like. i would like just a simple jolting kick type thing. look at all the aa's alone to goe with FD to make it worth while spell FD hasted fd better FD FD to FD.. the list goes on.
The original incarnation of Frozen Venom was doing almost 5000 dps with 7th and a glyph going. That's a once a night sort of potential, but it would have been an astronomical (and overpowering, imo) upgrade to our SoD burst dps.
Quote from: Hamtarro on January 11, 2010, 11:08:31 PM
As for utility being spell-based, I'm really not sure what you mean by it being "silly." Sure, we aren't expecting new spells with underfoot 2.0, but we should at least keep trying to get Ferocity bumped up to something that is useful. I can sure as hell promise you it won't happen if we don't.
I didn't mean we shouldn't try and get fero useful, I mean, I'd love it to be. Or that utility in spell form is silly, just that we shouldn't exclude the possibility of getting some through AA's. I agree that it's hard to say what exactly we could use, part of that is being such a generalized class.. we step on someone's toes no matter what direction we go. And if it requires new code well.. good luck :(.
I think we have a strong case for some form of fade/fd/etc, being the only melee dps class who can't drop aggro now. And our def disc hasn't been upgraded ever.. but beyond that yeah, I don't know. It just seems we get shot down a lot asking for dps.
And I like the paragon idea.
Yeah, I see what you mean.
As far as utility goes, I just don't really see what kind of utility we don't already have, what are you guys thinking about in regard to that? I like the idea of extended protection disc, but I also kinda think that if only we would stop pulling aggro a bit too often maybe we wouldn't need our protection disc nearly as often ;P (at least in my situation, I only use it when I pull aggro in a group / raid). Otherwise, I feel like most facets of utility (aside from single pulling) are pretty well covered by us.
I agree, we are such a generalized class that we step on toes whatever direction we go in, but I mean, hey, we SHOULD be stepping on people's toes. They need to get over it (imo). [Edited some ideas out -- forgot this was an AA discussion]
But yeah, short of stepping on people's toes, I would like to become even stronger and fill a niche with paragon/focused paragon with our other utility on top of it.
We aren't too bad in groups imo, or solo (aside from pulling). But raids is where it seems we lack a bit. Anyway, some ideas ignoring realism and considering that these days monks/rogues mez and berserkers fade, the land where anything goes..
- Some sort of Beast+Warder or group buff that reduces rampage/ae rampage for a couple minutes.
- Stun- make gorilla smash stun mobs up to the same level enchanters can.. physical resists in UF raids would need fixing first so it'd land.
- Long recast (hour or whatever) single target super paragon, 20k+ mana (at once, not over time)
- AA heal for beastlord and warder, preferably instant cast
- Short duration (1 min ish) high aggro, high hp pet for temporary offtanking, maybe a lion model or something that hasn't been previously used, no aggro transfer when it dies/fades.. preferably with merc aggro rules and not pet, i.e. can work with melees in range
- Group swipe proc
- Group Cheetah buff, either runspeed increase or temp. immunity to snare/root
I still think focused paragon should be instant cast, too. Seems lame to have to request a quickened focused paragon, but :p
Anyway, /shrug
Quote from: kharthai on January 13, 2010, 06:06:59 PM
- Group swipe proc
Mebbe I'm just tired, but you meaning something so that when we hit feral swipe, the group gets something beneficial on them in ST buff bar?
Quote from: Kanan on January 13, 2010, 08:05:34 PM
Mebbe I'm just tired, but you meaning something so that when we hit feral swipe, the group gets something beneficial on them in ST buff bar?
Sorry, meant something along the lines of shaman lynx (higher recast) but physical damage.
Self only version of focused paragon, it can share a timer and be identical as long as it doesn't change my target. As often as I focused myself, it gets real old having to F1 and retarget.
How about aa to give us Tracking? maybe capped where bards are? We should be able to track animals at the very least!
I'd drop 30 aa's on one that would make warder auto back off when mob enrages myself 8-)
if we must post about this, my ideas are of the following.
1. a way to drop agro, fd or a fade line would be nice. a few examples have been listed thus far so no need to explain futher
2. i liked the fero line that will add to stam regain.. or a group buff/aura that will add to stam regain or lower stam loss
3. i have asked many an expantion for this and saw something close to it posted yet again. give us a once a day group full paragon (full hp and manna once every 24 hours not able to be mgb casted). or a target 25kmanna and hp once per hour or 2 super regain.(great for when a cleric dies)
4. we need more double attack.
5. we need more tripple attack
6. we need a flurry
7. have a passive chance to proc more pets on yowl. maby keep the 3 pets but change to a passive 3% chance to proc the max number for every level up. can make these aa's in area of 6/9/12/15/17/20/22/25/27/30 that would increase our dps.
8. passive ability to have all pets (from a proc or yowl or aa swarm) last longer. up to 50% longer would help us a lot. can even make it in steps of 5% per level and 10 levels deep
9. small chance of twin cast(can even work on yowl)
10. need our disc to last about 100%-200% longer.. 12 sec just really aint all that long now days.
11. passive ability to proc a pet type from our own weps. maby call it savage clawing. love % chance of proc 1%-2%-3%-4%-5% and a mid line cost 6/9/12/15/17
12. give us a unique ability that is usefull in groups and in raids. maby add a group dis/aa/aura so that all abilities are increased for duration of fight or 1 min like 15 - 20min cooldpwn. can add to healing/dots/nukes/mele damage/damage midigation/spell midigation. this ability can be set at a low level and can increase maby max out at 20% and 10% for raids.
13. make growl last 100% longer no aa's needed.
14. option to take wurine illusion off like you can take group beastal alignment off
15. option to take the beastal alignment illusion off like you can on group beastal alignment
16. make mobs drop more beasty/monkie weps on raids. we are tired of new content coming out and not all of our beastys/monkies from the guild have gotten their weps from the raid progression of the previous content.
i have nothing else i would like to see. some i have listed are kinda out there but i think they are not tooo overly powering.
/chuckle.. nice list :) Chopping for comments/questions
Quote from: Hoov on January 14, 2010, 01:23:17 AM
if we must post about this, my ideas are of the following.
1. a way to drop agro, fd or a fade line would be nice. a few examples have been listed thus far so no need to explain futher
Given how many now get this, gonna chime in that I agree
Quote5. we need more tripple attack
6. we need a flurry
Can triple attack work for the offhand? I know flurry cannot. I agree with ya about these.
Quote7. have a passive chance to proc more pets on yowl. maby keep the 3 pets but change to a passive 3% chance to proc the max number for every level up. can make these aa's in area of 6/9/12/15/17/20/22/25/27/30 that would increase our dps.
8. passive ability to have all pets (from a proc or yowl or aa swarm) last longer. up to 50% longer would help us a lot. can even make it in steps of 5% per level and 10 levels deep
9. small chance of twin cast(can even work on yowl)
I like these, though the costs feel a lil extreme, AA wise, but /shrug.
Quote10. need our disc to last about 100%-200% longer.. 12 sec just really aint all that long now days.
Quote from: Raid LeaderBurn a small disc now!
How many times y'all seen this? Only thing I can think of that we have, even remotely close to this is GBA, but I don't tend to think of it as a small disc, since when we hit it for that purpose, it would really only affect us, as the rest will have their own better small discs.
Quote11. passive ability to proc a pet type from our own weps. maby call it savage clawing. love % chance of proc 1%-2%-3%-4%-5% and a mid line cost 6/9/12/15/17
Nice idea, though number of swarm pets around is getting a lil crazy (SOOOO wish the damn rangers would stop hitting their swarms all at the same time!)
Quote12. give us a unique ability that is usefull in groups and in raids. maby add a group dis/aa/aura so that all abilities are increased for duration of fight or 1 min like 15 - 20min cooldpwn. can add to healing/dots/nukes/mele damage/damage midigation/spell midigation. this ability can be set at a low level and can increase maby max out at 20% and 10% for raids.
Clarify if ya would on this one. It's piquing my curiosity what you're meaning.
Quotei have nothing else i would like to see. some i have listed are kinda out there but i think they are not tooo overly powering.
tbh, most of yours are fairly reasonable. Dunno about simplicity of implementation, but /shrug ;p
aa like paragon but that regen endurance so we can have tank back earlier in rotation
I would like to revisit Prolific Minion. With a little creative thinking, I bet we can work out the problems it had that got it pulled just before expansion release.
well they might still be wrking n it, there should be more aa's to be add'ed with UF
12. give us a unique ability that is usefull in groups and in raids. maby add a group dis/aa/aura so that all abilities are increased for duration of fight or 1 min like 15 - 20min cooldpwn. can add to healing/dots/nukes/mele damage/damage midigation/spell midigation. this ability can be set at a low level and can increase maby max out at 20% and 10% for raids.
from my post above..
try to clear it up a tad.. (drunk so dont expect too much)
i would use us to have an ability that is usefull in groups and raids. make it a disc we need to press. an aa we need to purchase that can be pressed or passive (passive being the aura). make this ability increase all damage and healing abilities of the group or raid (prob only get group though as raid would be over powering) for 1 min. this ability should/chould have a 15-20 min cool down. it will affect healing/dots/nukes/mele damage/damage midigation/spell midigation and any other needed things for dps or healing. max the ability to increase the damage or healing at 20% group content or 10% raid content (the zone can decide that)
this will be closer inline with what other discs that rangers/monks/zerkers/rouges/sk/palys ect ect ect can cast or disc at any given time on a raid. but most of these only add to the melee damage.. let us be unique and add to healing and nuking damage.. i know bards have something sim, but that is just a thought.
also.. my 12 sec dis is defensive.. we need it to last a LOT longer.. 100-200% longer as i have stated before.
Careful what you ask for, as getting our Protective Spirit Disc screwed up would be a crime! I'd prefer the current values (2 ticks every 4 minutes) to one that was 10 ticks every 30 minutes, for instance. Fairly fast recast is a very important part of the value for people who walk the aggro line like us.
I suggest asking for a NEW defensive disc is a better path to follow, even if it got timer-linked to the current one.
Quote from: Hoov on January 15, 2010, 12:02:22 AM
12. give us a unique ability that is usefull in groups and in raids. maby add a group dis/aa/aura so that all abilities are increased for duration of fight or 1 min like 15 - 20min cooldpwn. can add to healing/dots/nukes/mele damage/damage midigation/spell midigation. this ability can be set at a low level and can increase maby max out at 20% and 10% for raids.
from my post above..
try to clear it up a tad.. (drunk so dont expect too much)
i would use us to have an ability that is usefull in groups and raids. make it a disc we need to press. an aa we need to purchase that can be pressed or passive (passive being the aura). make this ability increase all damage and healing abilities of the group or raid (prob only get group though as raid would be over powering) for 1 min. this ability should/chould have a 15-20 min cool down. it will affect healing/dots/nukes/mele damage/damage midigation/spell midigation and any other needed things for dps or healing. max the ability to increase the damage or healing at 20% group content or 10% raid content (the zone can decide that)
this will be closer inline with what other discs that rangers/monks/zerkers/rouges/sk/palys ect ect ect can cast or disc at any given time on a raid. but most of these only add to the melee damage.. let us be unique and add to healing and nuking damage.. i know bards have something sim, but that is just a thought.
also.. my 12 sec dis is defensive.. we need it to last a LOT longer.. 100-200% longer as i have stated before.
That is almost exactly what Guardian of the Forest does, which is a Ranger ability, which mean we have no chance at it.
give taste of blood a real use!
or change it that max pet hits is doubled or something for the duration
or a 750 proc on pet
shield block :-D
Quotealso.. my 12 sec dis is defensive.. we need it to last a LOT longer.. 100-200% longer as i have stated before.
I dont agree with this personally, i like how long it lasts for how strong it is, if they increase the length of it, it wont be as strong. With SoE its a give and take thing.
100% in agreement for a way to drop agro (the sacraficing warder idea i really liked personally) also to split wurine up into two buffs
aa that summons a haste mask and weapons and armour for pet
sucks to askl mages every time
just 1 aa that summons it all
Before UF I was against the FD idea to drop agro but agree'd we needed some way of dropping agro. Since ranger's received a fade AA I can't see a reason we can't get something similar to our parent class in ability to drop agro.
I still don't think its unreasonable to allow paragon's to have a critical tick much like the healer lines to crit on heal over times. Mana pools are still too large to realistically think that FPoS and PoS have the desirability that we used to back in SoL and PoP.
I still want to see us get the mastery lines, no reason all other classes got this except us.
I would like something like the mage companion of necessity like previously suggested. A high agro, high hp mob to act as an offtank for us in times of need would be nice and could be good in a group scenario.
Mostly I think we need some massive help for raid settings, our class is boring and pretty crap in raids because we have no role to fill.
Quote from: Maylian on January 18, 2010, 02:02:06 PM
Before UF I was against the FD idea to drop agro but agree'd we needed some way of dropping agro. Since ranger's received a fade AA I can't see a reason we can't get something similar to our parent class in ability to drop agro.
I still don't think its unreasonable to allow paragon's to have a critical tick much like the healer lines to crit on heal over times. Mana pools are still too large to realistically think that FPoS and PoS have the desirability that we used to back in SoL and PoP.
I still want to see us get the mastery lines, no reason all other classes got this except us.
I would like something like the mage companion of necessity like previously suggested. A high agro, high hp mob to act as an offtank for us in times of need would be nice and could be good in a group scenario.
Mostly I think we need some massive help for raid settings, our class is boring and pretty crap in raids because we have no role to fill.
I am guessing the problems we have is cause devs have no clue what to do with us, which is why we get looked over on melee only AAS and abilities and get looked over on caster only ones as well, they can't figure out where we go.
Is it just me or are we becoming more and more gimp. in my grind groups I been seeing SK pop there new aa and will out parse me. I have to chain nuke everything I have to keep up. I sorry but if I have to fight to have more DPS then a tank what is the point ?
Quote from: Maylian on January 18, 2010, 02:02:06 PM
Before UF I was against the FD idea to drop agro but agree'd we needed some way of dropping agro. Since ranger's received a fade AA I can't see a reason we can't get something similar to our parent class in ability to drop agro.
I still don't think its unreasonable to allow paragon's to have a critical tick much like the healer lines to crit on heal over times. Mana pools are still too large to realistically think that FPoS and PoS have the desirability that we used to back in SoL and PoP.
I still want to see us get the mastery lines, no reason all other classes got this except us.
I would like something like the mage companion of necessity like previously suggested. A high agro, high hp mob to act as an offtank for us in times of need would be nice and could be good in a group scenario.
Mostly I think we need some massive help for raid settings, our class is boring and pretty crap in raids because we have no role to fill.
From what i can tell it was just rangers that got the mastery line for blunt, slash, piecers and looks like fire magic and ice magic combined. Not sure why ranger class has gotten so much love last few expansions, but they sure have gotten some nice things AA improved softcaps and returns etc last few expansions
number one:
more dps melee aa, that makes our dps a good way higher in a steady way without the need to chain nuke, hit all hotkeys, dot etc.
a good increase in double attack and flurry and other dps melee aa
a spellproc that brings a beasty proc on our weapons
an additional dps burn disc that doesnt use the same timer as our current discs
make ferocity a circle of power aura
or gives us a aura that increases critical hits and weapon or weapon damage
higher maximum hit for our warder, the current max hit is a joke, i am thinking of doubling it really to like 450
since the warder max hit is a joke compared to these days weapon melee output.
since the melee damage on weapons grows, we need also a much higher melee output for our warder
in that way our steady dps also becomes higher.
number two:
ways to drop aggro
fd aa ability
jolt aa
number three:
critical hits on our paragon lines
an aa upgraded slow
a selfheal aa, like petmending idea but then on us
maybe it looks a lot to ask for
anyway we have to ask for some real love since i got the feeling we are quite a bit behind in eq
our entire spellbook (we are a utility class right) is way behind . about 20 levels behind.
So yes, we need *LOTS* of loving from the devs atm.
Completely agree, I have stopped raiding as a beastlord because it just seems like an exercise in futility as there is no role for us worth a damn at high end. It seems in groups we lack a lot of utility that may make us desirable, I think the class is in no better a position than before UF if not worse because of the changes other classes have received.
an aa that make our pet crits there spellprocs
was thinking also about a passive aa that makes us proc a howl of the moon pet on target
and fd doesnt sound bad for utility
rangers got the whole bunch of utilitys
so we need in that area also quite some new stuff
dont feel shy to ask for good stuff
Posting all my (newish) ideas here, some aren't AAs and are just general tuning/changes but this thread seems to have turned into an "everything we want in April" thread. Most of my ideas are raid/solo oriented, I don't like grouping that much.
Personally, I'm not that upset with our personal dps. Our warder/swarm pets are starting to really starting to lack, and once more people start getting the T6 and higher weapons it will show even more. Warder melee dps needs to be doubled, most likely by substantially raising the max hit. Warders also need a longish, very powerful burn AA to hit when Empathic Fury drops; Frenzied Burnout is the perfect candidate to steal from mages. When I do 8000 personal dps for 5minutes and my warder does 950, I'm not a happy person, I'd like to see it boosted closer to 2500-3000.
Swarm pets are starting to slack a bit too, just because of stagnation. Unlinking Haergen's and Yowl and giving Haergen's a 48-60 second refresh would increase swarm pet dps and wouldn't interfere with the growl effect of Haergen's. The other option is to try to get lower recast / longer duration for the werewolf spells similar to the mage lines, I don't really want this option unless their cast times get dropped to .5 seconds. New pet focus could help this issue, but I'm not terribly optimistic.
Ferocity...it sucks...it's a worn out subject. My new, probably suggested 3 years ago by someone else idea for it: Deagro proc. The proc could be sympathetic to also work on spells (like arcane arietta) for a lesser amount. A sizeable deagro proc would be a buff that makes people go OMG I WANT THAT, and wouldn't make dps explode (any more than it already does) with those magical disc/buff combos. I checked lucy, spell slot 2 looks like a good slot that wouldn't interfere with some of the most used procs.
AAs to lower cast time of Focused Paragon, love the idea whoever said it. I still want self only version, screw all the retargetting. I still say focused paragon needs more ranks.
More hastened paragon (group only), get it to 8-9 minute refresh. Sounds like a lot, but old AAs that used to have horribly long recasts are now getting pretty low.
More hastened roar, get this down to 2-3 minutes.
Growl/Haergen's +hp and HoT portions need revamped. 1500/150 in DoN and now they're like 2700/300, hp values have tripled since then and this spell hasn't even doubled in power. I'd love to see this fixed.
Protection of the Warder, good idea in theory. Up the mitigation to 12-15% so there isn't weird stacking issues with cleric vie, and we'll actually notice (substantially) lower hits. Make this change and it's a nice AA.
Give GBA the damage mod boost to 35%, I don't care if it's 5 ranks at 12AA/rank.
Extended BA
Some sort of "spell disc" AA. +Crit chance of 15-25% for a minute or something, in a spell slot without some ridiculous conflict (auspice, bard epic, etc.). Heck even stealing the Wizards prolonged destruction AA (+40% i think?) but it makes nukes cost twice as much mana; with our low mana nukes I could live with a copy/paste of this. An option other than intensity/glyph combo to increase spell damage could really go a long way I think, that once a night combo is a huge boon...but it's just a once a night thing that not everyone has access to.
Friendly pet - wtf? I don't even know here.
I tried to list just new stuff, but I'm sure once I got going I listed some of my old ideas again.
I agree too that our dps has stagnated...but imo the real problem is lack of utility.
We got no real desireable must-have utility to make up for our lower dps compared to other classes for raid scenario.
A raid can survive fine without SE or paragon in many cases.
Imo just making fero something awesome again, that'd make all classes drool for it would be a nice start.
A targetable version of the new cure AA.
One cool tool would be to maybe add a new ability to our warder..
A targetable ability called...Spirit Link, which would make the warder take like 5% of the damage for the target for a limited time.
Stackable with other beastlords...so with 4 bsts in raid, all using it, would mean tank is taking 20% less damage for a while.
If we don't get more dps...this could be a utility....also to make the warder desired :)
TL;DR (sorry) -- Don't give us crappy 1hour skills, just buff paragon in newer ways, PS our pets suck donkey balls.
Am I the only person that completely loathes really-strong-but-only-usable-once-every-hour abilities? They just drive me NUTS! To me, the longest cooldown should be 30minutes. Either it is overpowered such that you can't use it but once a day or it just shouldn't go in, or it is powerful but should be usable once per raid fight (MGB falls into this, I hate not using my MGB simply because I might need it more for the next fight, etc.) Don't give me an ability I am too afraid to use because we might want it more sometime in the next 72 minutes (See: Berserker Savage Spirit).
I am curious as to what you guys think of my idea to buff paragon (sorry if it seems I am just pushing my own ideas and negating others, that isn't my intent, I'm just curious if people would like it or not and if you guys don't I'll drop it.)
(Three Ranks) __(adjective here)__ Focused Paragon of Spirits: This ability provides a passive (30% would be my initial hope, whatever the devs think though) chance for your Focused Paragon to heal and additional (X HP/MANA per rank) upon fading.
Ideally I would think the numbers would work out to a 30% chance to cast a promised heal that does 50% of whatever the current total is (using #s, not %s, since the devs hate %s). That would work out to a 15% buff to paragon on average, but the cool thing to me is that whenever someone does get the proc they will actually get a huge benefit (but only 30% of the time).
I don't know about you guys, but in my raid guild I might get asked 3-5 times for Paragon on any given night. I feel like if there is a chance to get a 150% paragon then that might be strong enough for it to feel useful again but not so strong that it is imbalancing.
On other notes, yes I feel like our dps has stagnated (however, I am always in the top 10 on our charts, so I can't complain either). For crying out loud, when I am regularly hitting 4-6k+dps for fights in Tower, why oh WHY is my warder busting out *A MAXIMUM POTENTIAL* of 10% of that!?
I would like to see the pet proc fixed and working i had a lot of fun with it in Beta.
I also like to see our DPS improved currently I have to fight to out DPS SK and some times war. I not talking raid / burn in that area is another topic I talking about I go out grinding and if I not chain nuking full burn then war and sk can out dps me. I sorry but I should not have to click everything i got to out dps a tank.
I like the promised % chance thing Ham.
On the pet being approximately 10% of our dps:
Remember, the pet is considered part of us when the devs are setting up where they desire us to stand from a dps standpoint. They decide that we need to be at a, for argument's sake, 30% dps increase from the various abilities we can gain in this set of additions. They'll set these into the various abilities and portion them out as they see fit.
Now if the pet gains more dmg output, proportionately, we'll lose add'l personal dps gain in some fashion. This would be more tolerable if the pet's survivability were not still such a severe issue. The vaporific (mob breathes heavily in it's direction, the pet turns to vapor) pet is not quite as bad an issue as it once was, but it is not the monster that magi pets still are.
Now, if that pet dies, we have lost some of our dps gains. I don't generally memorize the pet summoning spell in a fight unless it feels as though it will last a while, and I'll need the pet's (more than likely) unhasted and un-proc'd dps for us to have a chance of winning. Since I don't do that, I can't recover that dps loss. I'd also suffer dps losses from the casting of the pet instead of nuking/meleeing the mob.
I'd like a lil more survivability for the pet, but I'll live with how it's dmg output is. The swarm pets are nicely powerfully effective. I don't mind the focus for dps to stay on us, since this is a much more dependable source of dmg than our pet.
Combined: Head Scryer Oomk on 1/10/2010 in 358sec
Hzath
--- DMG: 2734115 (5.89%) @ 7902 dps (7637 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 20607 @134dps
--- Special: 7
Hzath`s pet
--- DMG: 385079 (0.83%) @ 1116 dps (1076 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 21902 @342dps
Hzath`s warder
--- DMG: 312000 (0.67%) @ 902 dps (872 sdps)
Just seems out of line to me. I remember we were having this discussion before UF and swarm pets and warder were each ~15% of our total dps, now they're down to 11% and 9%. It'll drop even lower once some people start getting the new weapons it'll be even worse. We got some great personal dps upgrades with the UF launch, I'm of the opinion we shouldn't let these 2 facets of our dps drop so low and should try to push for them to get boosted in April.
As for warder defensives...they can EASILY offtank in tier8 if you have the right spells memmed, sure it takes work but he's quite a beast these days.
I also like the [bonus health/mana on paragon fade] idea. I personally saw it as a 3-4tick super paragon overdrive type bonus, but I guess a boom hit to hp/mana is just as good.
Quote from: Hzath on January 22, 2010, 10:22:50 AM
Friendly pet - wtf? I don't even know here.
/derail on
It's pretty funny when you compare it to the new necro aa that is up for 3 out of 6 minutes and has a 25% chance to cast a 4k *group* heal when anyone in group casts a nuke or dot. Not that I particularly love healing, but if they're going to toss us heal utility stuff it'd be nice if it were somewhat effective.
/derail off
Quote from: Hzath on January 22, 2010, 11:15:48 PM
Combined: Head Scryer Oomk on 1/10/2010 in 358sec
Hzath
--- DMG: 2734115 (5.89%) @ 7902 dps (7637 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 20607 @134dps
--- Special: 7
Hzath`s pet
--- DMG: 385079 (0.83%) @ 1116 dps (1076 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 21902 @342dps
Hzath`s warder
--- DMG: 312000 (0.67%) @ 902 dps (872 sdps)
Just seems out of line to me. I remember we were having this discussion before UF and swarm pets and warder were each ~15% of our total dps, now they're down to 11% and 9%. It'll drop even lower once some people start getting the new weapons it'll be even worse. We got some great personal dps upgrades with the UF launch, I'm of the opinion we shouldn't let these 2 facets of our dps drop so low and should try to push for them to get boosted in April.
As for warder defensives...they can EASILY offtank in tier8 if you have the right spells memmed, sure it takes work but he's quite a beast these days.
I also like the [bonus health/mana on paragon fade] idea. I personally saw it as a 3-4tick super paragon overdrive type bonus, but I guess a boom hit to hp/mana is just as good.
I agree with ya, though I can't comment on T8 yet. You definally are right re: the weapon increases coming will not help us as much as others (tho the 2 1hers for us I've seen so far are not OMFG I GOTTA HAVE IT upgrades over tower (I think I calc'd like .00x better ratio than tower, with corr taken into account)). You're making me think that this might be another like a few years back, where our power increase, up front, is greater than others, but we "peak" at like t7 basically, whereas others might peak out higher up, putting us further behind the curve.
I'm amazed I'm as coherent as I presently am as frickin tired as I am. I honestly will admit surprise that the swarm pets did so relatively poorly on oomk (tho that may well be w/in margin of error for being below 400 dps, esp for a single fight. Last night, I prolly showed a lot higher, but /shrug.. rng liked me & gave me like 2 4 pet swarms in a row :)
Quote from: Hzath on January 22, 2010, 11:15:48 PM
I also like the [bonus health/mana on paragon fade] idea. I personally saw it as a 3-4tick super paragon overdrive type bonus, but I guess a boom hit to hp/mana is just as good.
I like the 3-4tick super paragon overdrive idea, the reason I went with a boost on fade is just because I have gotten the feeling that the limiting factor on whether or not an AA idea has promise is whether or not it would be easy to code. My promised-type idea just came from the fact that they already have a promised heal coded, so it might not be too difficult for them to add a mana heal to it as well.
it still needs end adding too!
Quote from: Hzath on January 22, 2010, 11:15:48 PM
Just seems out of line to me. I remember we were having this discussion before UF and swarm pets and warder were each ~15% of our total dps, now they're down to 11% and 9%. It'll drop even lower once some people start getting the new weapons it'll be even worse. We got some great personal dps upgrades with the UF launch, I'm of the opinion we shouldn't let these 2 facets of our dps drop so low and should try to push for them to get boosted in April.
Perhaps the drop in warder/swarm dps is due to the absence of Prolific Minion. Since it was dropped to late in beta, maybe it's contribution to our overall dps wasn't replaced in another area.
Anyway, this seems a good enough reason to ask everyone to PM Elidroth and talk with him about Prolific Minion. Give your opinion and offer some solutions and maybe we can get this dps AA back on our menu.
Prolific Minion should be/remain a fluff AA that does minimal dps if it returns at all, if pet/swarm dps is considered too low it should be boosted on the warder (and yowl pets), imo.
% of "our" dps is a flawed measure, unless you define "our", which nobody seems to do. You can say "my", which is specific, but still usually unknown to anyone but the speaker. You can say "your", which is completely ambiguious without a specific reader. But it's patently impossible for the pet to be the same percentage of dps for every beastlord. Heck, half the time, you don't even know if the speaker is a grouper or a raider, never mind how well geared they are. 15% for a bleeding edge raider might translate to 70% for a casual soloer, remembering that pet power is mostly fixed, while player power comes with weapon/aa upgrades.
I suggest speaking in actual numerical dps terms. What is it now, and what do you expect?
Quote from: kharthai on January 28, 2010, 03:27:12 PM
Prolific Minion should be/remain a fluff AA that does minimal dps if it returns at all, if pet/swarm dps is considered too low it should be boosted on the warder (and yowl pets), imo.
Why should it remain a fluff AA? Why not get a functional dps tool out of it?
Quote from: Nusa on January 28, 2010, 03:59:42 PM
% of "our" dps is a flawed measure, unless you define "our", which nobody seems to do. You can say "my", which is specific, but still usually unknown to anyone but the speaker. You can say "your", which is completely ambiguious without a specific reader. But it's patently impossible for the pet to be the same percentage of dps for every beastlord. Heck, half the time, you don't even know if the speaker is a grouper or a raider, never mind how well geared they are. 15% for a bleeding edge raider might translate to 70% for a casual soloer, remembering that pet power is mostly fixed, while player power comes with weapon/aa upgrades.
I suggest speaking in actual numerical dps terms. What is it now, and what do you expect?
I'm not going to get into a discussion about parsing out my pronouns. I was just trying to use Hzath's suggestion that our pet dps seemed low compared to personal dps as a way to get people talking about Prolific Minion, which I think has good potential to be a useful and fun AA. Squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Quote from: Sharrien on January 28, 2010, 04:20:42 PM
Why should it remain a fluff AA? Why not get a functional dps tool out of it?
Because there are too many pets, and swarm pets, etc, in game. If it is remade as a significant dps boost, it screws over raiders, who are forced to either use it and deal with more lag, spam, push, people complaining about the absurd amount of pets, or not use it. It's also a vulnerable form of dps, assuming it takes hits like most other swarms, AE ramp and such would make short work of it.
I'm fine with them bringing the AA back so people can fill their screen with fluffy things if they feel like it, but if we need dps upgrades I'd much rather them be more on the functional side.
(Also think the pets should spawn off the player so they can be "aimed" like yowl pets, instead of just spawning a mass of them whenever the warder is)
Actually, spawning off the player rather than the warder was one of the suggestions I sent to Elidroth a couple weeks ago.
I agree that it is vulnerable to ramp (unless their hp are as high as Yowl pets), but so were the pets from the fabled weapons when they were popular and so also are the pets from Attack of the Warders and mages' Host. Not every AA is best for every situation.
Pet lag is mostly due to pet deaths/expiration which is mitigated or eliminated by turning off the journal. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who complain about numbers of pets or text spam. The widespread use of fabled pet weapons when they were popular along with the existing mage/necro swarm pets didn't keep anyone from winning a raid after all. A valid concern is additional push, but that is something us pet owners deal with already and I don't think that PM pets would be that much harder to manage, fabled pet weapons (assuming the proc rate is comparable) didn't make positioning any harder in my opinion.
If there are beastlords who don't like pets (???) and would chose not to use this AA and feel screwed over it, I have trouble understanding that position. With all of our pet dps AA and extended swarm, Prolific Minion could be a real step up for us on the parsing ladder.
I don't dislike pets, but I absolutely hate the sheer number of pets on raids. I don't know anyone who still runs with journal on, but I know a fair amount of people who curse when everyone whips out their minions at once. Even if not lagged, they typically end up on the same side of the mob regardless of the original effort in positioning them, and then you have an annoying amount of push to balance. Yeah, we have to deal with it already.. why make it worse?
I don't know if fabled weapons have kept people from winning raids, but pet push gone bad has surely wiped some.
As far as the parse ladder, something like the aforementioned beastlord version of frenzied burnout could also help us, while being still pet related and having less downside. I don't know. There are enough people that seem to want PM that it seems likely it'll make a return, but making it powerful will detract from other options we might have that'd be more effective.
Anyhow, agree to disagree I guess.
Ok playing on a ranger alt they have a spell that makes a pet for 20 min that is a copy of an animal but it a tiny little thing.
the mage swarm pets are also tiny. bst pets are screen blockers. to me I think thats why ppl dislike them so much it like spell effect more ppl have some if not all turn off because other way it like looking at a dico ball.
the new wolf / cat familiars from the market place are about 1/4 the size of or pets. and 1/2 the size then our pets are shrunk so I know the grafic are in game to make our pets a LOT smaller. if they could make the size of our swarm pets all of them from the Howl to the aa or the pet proc'ed I think that would make most people happier. having 500 pets on the screen then they are 1/4 to 1/2 the size of shrunken players would mean they don't fill the screen and piss ppl off.
As a Bst I love pets that why I play a pet class getting less pets for me is no fun but making them smaller so other can play and enjoy the game I can fully support and agree with. swarm pets of any time should be very very small. on raids they add up and on raid 90% of the time ever one is shrunk so we can fit and see so pets should be 1/2 the size of us or smaller to not prevent what were trying to do when when were asking everyone to shrink.
I really liked the idea someone had previously, giving us a new AA pet to summon, and use as an offtank.
This pet would have substancial HPs to live a while, and at death it'd cause memory blur on the mobs in it's hatelist.
Mages got something similar already iirc too?
This is useful utility imo, and it involves pets...very beastlordy hehe.
The magician AA you guys are thinking of is not an offtank really, it is a quick summoned pet that will grab aggro and memblur the mob, giving the magician an escape route.
I tend to think that if there are SOME people on this board that say their pet can tank in Tier 7 or Tier 8 (whichever it was), then this must be possible. What is likely is that the people who don't think the pet can tank probably don't have all the mitigation/avoidance/HP AAs spent on their pet (I know I don't and I am approaching 2250AA soon). While, yes, it would be nice to have a beefy pet out of the box, I am not going to complain if I have to spend AA for it. It is our choice afterall to go after DPS or Pet tanking AA first if we really wanted it that bad.
If it comes down to it, I would rather just get the developers to work on our buffing/paragon/etc utility and that will make me happy enough. I don't really mind if I am doing 8k DPS and my pets are only 10-15% of that, because holy shit I am doing 8k DPS!
PS: If people are really giving you that much crap for the size of your pets, tell THEM to /feedback it to Sony and quit complaining to you. Worrying about the size of our pets is the LAST thing we should want a developer spending his "Beastlord Time" on.
The AA is called companion of neccesity.
Its nice...but i wouldnt want to copy everything over from mages.
(Altho idd like their pet dmg copied over heh)
My personal prefferance would be to make the group spire ability worthwile.
(and thats not 100 dps in days where 10k is broken often enough)
So we are more wanted in a dps group (with sham/bard pressent)
Also more ranks of trip/bf or flurry would be nice to increase personal dps.
Cause they dont seem to want to give our pet reasonable dps..
Ofc that would be even nicer but that belongs in the spell catagory. (buff warders dps!)
cheers
Yra
Wurine AA to allow us to zone with illu.
Preshrinked pet, make all pets summoned max shrink size.
increase resists AAs
more levels on pet snare. make it a longer snare.
making summoned pets (yowl and swarm) able to buff, haste
(aka auras mgbs if they are up during that time)
Locking this post thread as the 2nd release of AAs already happened.