Warders's alacrity and proc rates

[bham]

Has anyone parsed if the extra flurry attacks from Warder's Alacrity AA translate to extra procs for the warder?

Extra procs in addition to extra melee damage is the only reason I can see that would justify the higher cost for Alacrity compared to Warder's Fury.

[Coprolith]

Good question.

No one's parsed it afaik and it would be quite difficult to prove anyway, but until someone does the safest answer is: probably not. For PCs, spell proc rates are tied to the spell, not the number of attacks per combat round and its likely the same is true for pet proc spells.

/hugs

[Xarilok]

NPC's (which include pets) have completely different rules governing combat.

It would be simple to test this.

Step one, find a low level mob, with an innate proc (possibly ghouls)
Step two, equip two stein so you dont kill it with reposts.
Step three, aggro, and parse for a while
Step four, SLOW the mob, parse for same lenth of time

Now, compare the proc rate per minute unslowed vs slowed.

IFF the proc rate decreased for the NPC while slowed, then proc rate for NPCs is determined per swing, not per swing/minute.  If the proc rate remains the same, then proc rate is independent of delay, and would NOT increase/decrease with an increase/decrease in attack per unit time.

If NPC proc rate is DIRECTLY proportional to ATTACK rate, then yes, Flurry = extra procs.

If NPC proc rate is INVERSELY proportional to ATTACK rate, then no, flurry will NOT = extra procs.

PC's are inversely proportional.  Not sure about NPCs.


p.s. Anecdotal evidence: just by "feel" from spending LOTS of time in PoV, the proc rate per swing did not seem to go up when the golems were slowed.  If it was inversely proportional, then a 75% slowed golem should proc every other swing or so, which wasn't the case.  A 75% slowed warrior with an earthshaker procs nearly every swing, the same doesnt seem to be true for NPCs.  Again, only anecdotal and not parsed.

[Bengali]

Actually, Kavhok posted on the Steel Warrior that NPCs can proc their innate procs on every swing:

NPCs' innate proc checks occur on every swing. So an NPC can technically proc 4 times on a quad attack. Weapon procs (both player and NPC) only check once per round, as you have above.

- Kavhok, SOE

So if warder imbued procs are counted as "innate" for NPCs then warders would proc more if they swing more.   I have no answers as to whether our warder procs would count as innate, but I have a very strong suspicion that they do not (because well, they aren't innate to the warder, they are only there because of a spell).

This does mean, however, that testing against an NPC with an innate proc might not actually provide the answers as to how warders work.

[Coprolith]

No, spell procs do not count as innate procs. Innate procs are something entirely different. For instance they can only occur on a hit unlike spell and weapon procs which can also go off on a miss.

Everything I've seen about pet procs tells me that pets behave no different then us when it comes to spell procs and weapon procs.
I have several MBs of logs containing over 4000 Rellic procs. Half of them obtained with the pet unhasted. Its a recent parse project of mine but unfinished and progressing very slowly because you have to tell the pet to attack again every 10 minute, which makes the parsing tedious (I parse stuff like this only while ironing the laundry  :wink: ). I'll give a complete report when finished but preliminary results show that

- hasting your pet makes absolutely no difference to his average proc rate just like PC procs.
- A warder fire will never fire his spell proc twice in a round. Unhasted, my pet averages about 100 swings per minute. In that same minute, Rellic will fire off 7 times on average. If the pet would get a chance to proc every swing, then this chance would be 0.07. The chance for a double proc would be 0.07^2 and the expected number of double procs would be 2000*0.07^2 = 10. This is the chance to proc twice in a row, the chance to proc twice in a round would be considerably larger since the average number of swings per round is closer to 3. I calculate that chance at about 1.5%, resulting in an expected number of 30. Hasted, you could still expect to find 10 occurences of 2 procs in single round.
However, Instead of finding 40 such occurences I find none, zero, noppes, nada, njente, nothing and I'd be surprised if anyone can show a log containing so much a single double proc. Until someone does, i'm going with the assumption that spell procs can go off only once per round as with PCs.
- If you give your pet 2 different mage weapons (E.g. Fist of Ixiblat and Blade of the Kedge), then you'll find that the first weapon procs 2x per minute and the second weapon 1x per minute, just like PC MH and OH weapons resp.

Hence my initial reply: the safe bet is to say that pet flurries do not increase the number of procs per min.

The only reason i can think of that would make W.Alacrity increase the proc rate is that the game engine does not consider flurries part of the combat round. (This is the real trick behind all-warrior AE groups. Their rampages are not considered part of the combat round and get the same chance to proc as normal attacks. So by slowing themselves they drive the chance to proc up to close to 1 and then equip a weapon with an AE proc). Its not going to be easy to show that tho, at W.Al.5 the number of swings per minute, and with it the proc rate, increases by only 5% iirc. To get that kind of statistical accuracy on proc rates you'd need to parse for days. (And you might argue that since its so small its totally unnoticable in-game, so you might as well assume that it does nothing anyway).


/hugs