New ideas on AA progression -- Level 70

[Toghat]

Well I did a search on this and couldnt find anything so thought I would post to get your opinions and thoughts.

From all that I have read on these boards a consensus seems to be that your best interests may be to get a few beneficial AA's at 51 -- like run 3 --  a couple more at 61 and then wait to do most AA work until 65.

How is the new level 70 cap going to change everyone's feelings about this? Now, I am an inexperience player -- hell I am only 43 -- but my plan pre OoW was to follow the 51 --> 61 --> 65 path. Now I am wondering if I may as well just AA throughout the 50's and build them up.

Seems to me that the new level cap may change the picture a bit . Based on the number of 65 players out there right now, I would imagine it will be very hard for someone to get to lvl 70, have less than 0 AA's (ok, a bit of hyperbole here) and find anyone willing to group ......

For those of you at 65, what is your feeling on this? I assume that there is an implicit understanding that a lvl 65 would be working on AA's and would not be "shunned" if they are not up to speed in AA's but at least could play their class. But what about 70?

I know I won't be near 65 for quite some time -- probably months after OOW and just in time for everyone to bolt to EQ2 :)  -- but I was just curious about this.

[Tastian]

Even now you have 65s without their baron title.  The answer to this will vary from person to person as usual.  Me personally I would AA at whatever level I felt I needed to so that I could effectively contribute for where I was hunting.  Originally I AA'd at 60 some, then 62 well I worked on getting new spells, then a lot at 65.  I honestly can't imagine going into a group at 65 without paragon, CA/LR, 65 slow, etc.  However, some do it.  I also can't imagine trying to tank at 70 without some of the defensive AAs.  I'm definitely someone that would rather be a very well geared/powerful 60 beastlord than an under geared 65 one.  Some will say just level then AA comes faster, but *shrugs* as usual hehe.

[Toghat]

I'm definitely someone that would rather be a very well geared/powerful 60 beastlord than an under geared 65 one.  Some will say just level then AA comes faster, but *shrugs* as usual hehe.

Thanks Tast,  info like that is what I was looking for. One quick (newbie) question tho -- how exactly do AA's come faster with lvls? I would assume that AA xp works the same as lvl xp, i.e.  a DB mob at 65 would give less AA xp if the same mob were killed at 65 and also conned DB. To make myself clear I'll use a low lvl example.....  An orc pawn would con db to a lvl 3 and give maybe 3% xp while it would con db to a lvl 5 and give around .75-1% xp. AA xp works the same, correct? Just diverted to a different xp table?

Do AA's "come faster" at 65 due to the strength of the spells between 60-65? Yes a true newbie question and I think I already know the answer, but want to make sure.

As it stands, I am planning on extending the xp grind from 50-60 anyway -- maybe split  50/50 between AA and xp to start and see how it goes....

[Tastian]

An AA point is a set amount of exp.  Call it 1000 if you need for this example.  If you kill a DB at 51st level it's probably around 40th level and yields say 10 xp.  However, if you are 65 and kill a DB mob it's likely around 55 or so that means it yields say 20 xp.  Those are numbers for the sake of not using variables that most people hate lol they aren't accurate, but give you an idea.  The spells can help AA come faster to, but basically it's where you hunt and what you kill.  I used to get 1% AA per kill around 60.  Now at 65 I can kill a mob and get 14% AA on a kill.  That of course ignores kill rate and several other factors, but the point is the higher level the mob the faster you get exp.  Most people will make AA faster at 65 killing DB trash in a group than at 60 simply because the trash is higher level.  It, of course, will depend what you are killing and how good the group is and several other factors, but it gives you an idea.

[Oneiromancer]

AAXP is calculated based on the experience it takes to get from level 51 to 52.   So in general it doesn't matter what level you are, if you are set to 100% AAXP you get the same amount of AAXP from the exact same mob.  Now, there are some other issues...such as an exp penalty for killing a light blue mob, or an exp bonus for a higher conning mob (and then there's the "high con bonus" that I won't bother getting into).  But in general if there's a mob that's, say, dark blue to both a level 55 and a level 65 character, they will get the exact same AAXP from it.  Since the level 65 can kill that mob much faster, they get a better AAXP rate.

As to when to start doing AAs...well, I was one of those that hit 65 without a title.  I had 2 AAs...one from the PoJ trials and another from random AAing during raids or farming lblues (just wanted to see something move, hehe).  I don't raid much if at all...and to this day I still group with people who don't know what Paragon is, so I didn't feel the loss of that so much.  To me, getting the spells in the 60's were much more important than AAs...the 62/64 pets, Celerity, Rellic, SD, Ferocity, and most especially our 65% slow.  It's my humble opinion that the 65% slow is the best reason for beastlords to hit 65 before AAs...it's what gets me groups, not Paragon.  Similar to wizards hitting 65 to get Strike of Solusek, their 3k nuke.  Whereas other classes don't have such a huge boost at 65, so they don't lose so much by stopping and AAing.

So, not really intending to argue with anyone, just presenting my thoughts on the matter.  I was lucky to get many of my spells very cheaply...I always had all of my next level's spells before I hit that level.  When OoW comes out, I'm not planning on hitting 66 until I find out how easy it is to get the new spells...or until the prices on them come down.  (It will also depend on what Shaman spells we get at 66.)  I'll follow the progression of 100% normal exp until I am close to dinging, then if I don't have my spells I'll do 100% AAXP until I get them, then I'll ding when appropriate.  This could change if there's some other innate abilities we get upon levelling...such as increased regen or another improved damage table...but we'll have to wait and see.

Game on,

[Toghat]

AAXP is calculated based on the experience it takes to get from level 51 to 52.  

Ahah, then it is a bit different than I had thought. Now I see the reason why so many people advise to get to 60's or so to start doing AA's..... for some reason I missed this little piece of information even after having read the quides on this site.

Having played RPG's for a long time I understand the graduated xp tables and now have a much better understanding of how the AA xp system works.  Not to open my mouth to have a bunch of flames stuffed down it, but it is rather skewed towards the higher levels(and I can understand why).  I wonder if SOE is planning on changing the AAXP to work more like the leadership XP. I have done some leadership xp'ing already and that bar moves slowly.... Or perhaps the leadership xp is designed after the AAXP -- i.e. you need enough xp to level from 51 to 52 to gain one leadership point, no matter what level you are....

[Kromjr]

AA's are restricted by level anyways. So at 52 or 51 you cant really get the good ones anyways. Imagine having paragon at 51 :)

[Catgal]

I honestly can't imagine going into a group at 65 without paragon, CA/LR, 65 slow, etc.

I may not agree on this... I dont have any CA/LR... I from time to time get tells for joining groups from the ppl I grouped before whenever I am online. However, I agree that 65 slow is a must being a bst. Paragon comes after. And other abilities will just make you better. But most likely, your skills and play style are most likely what ppl judge you a good/sucky bst.

BTW, when I group with other so-called uber bsts and seeing them not really doing a thing, or just sending pet out and saying "I have FULL pet aa's". I feel disgusted.

[kukana]

I went all out for XP until I dinged 65.  For me, getting the 65 slow and the 64 pet and ferocity was far more valuable than any single AA could have been.

To the original poster's question of what will happen when we all have 5 more levels to ding through, it all depends on a lot of factors:

For example:
* How difficult are the 66-70 spells to get?
* Do the new OoW AAs require you to be 66+?
* How much time will Epic 1.5 and 2.0 take away from farming XP?

From what I've seen of the list of 66-70 spells on Lucy, nothing really leaps out at me as "must haves".  Sure, new pets are nice, but unlike 65 slow, nothing seems to be "make-or-break" worthy, and certainly no new dimensions are added to the class with the spells.  Add to that the difficulty with which getting the spells might entail (rare drops or long quests) and leveling solely to get the new spells doen't hold much value.

Likewise, If the new AAs are available to people under 66, I don't inherently have a need to level.

On the epic front, one of the things about working your epic is that it is a HUGE timesink.  Lots of running around farming this or that for ultra-rare drops.  Endless camping for some mob to pop to do a turnin or spawn a battle.  However, a lot of people will do precisely this to be as quick as possible to get their upgrades.  This will slow down 66-70 leveling as well.  With all the competition that will exist for rare spawns, it will be even slower for people.  I can only hope that Sony will put a lot of epic fights into instanced spawns that don't require endless camping, but I know that won't happen.

For me, unless I see substantial reason to "Go XP" (which I'm not seeing now based on the proposed spell lists), I plan to put a lot more work into AAs to flesh out some of the shortcomings of this character class.  Once I get to the 100-150 AA range, then I can rethink that, but right now I don't see the need.

*shrug*

[bham]

If 2 beastlords got to 60 with no AA, then Beastie A went full AA and Beastie B went full level exp, how many AAs would Beastie A have by the time Beastie B hit 65?

I suspect 40-50 AA.

Assume they use identical gear.

Beastie B at 65 with a full spellbook but no AA would be considerably more powerful than Beastie A at level 60 with 50 AA.

Even without the 65 slow and fero Beastie B would be more powerful.

At this stage Beastie B starts doing AA and Beastie A starts working towards level 65.

By the time Beastie A hits level 65, Beastie B has 75 AA cause he was using a more powerful toon the whole time and Beastie A is 25 AA behind.

Thats the essence of the matter.

P.S. I plucked the number 40-50 AA out of my arse. Can anyone calculate it?

This may change if the amount of exp needed to level from 65 to 70 is truely massive. The amount needed may be the equivalent of 200 or 300 AA. Which may make AAs a more attractive alternative. But then again, the amount of time to get to 70 will mean you should be able to track down all your spells by then.  :roll:

[Tastian]

I mention CA/LR because it makes a noticeable differance.  I've always stepped up to OT or even MT at times.  Some beastlords will simply get splatted in spots if they don't have the AAs/gear.  This will be more of an issue at 70 as "normal" mobs will likely be hitting over 1k a shot.  It's not just the AAs though as it is the extra time you put into your character and gear upgrades you get as well.

The problem with the AA/Level discussion is it assumes too many different things.  You don't always get a group right away.  In some cases you can solo much faster.  I was actually making AA faster at 62 then I was when I first hit 65 because of a few factors.  Also some people have long term memories.  I still can remember a PoV outter group turning away a 60th level uber played shaman friend of mine with full spell book and many AAs to get some 65 shaman that had ZERO 62+ spells, had 3 AAs and not a clue how to play his class.  Sometimes your level will get you a group, but your play and ability definitely stand out.  I know a few low 60 beastlords I take to LDoNs with me just because I like their play style and their company and they are "better" than some of the 65s I know.  

Spells are a big issue too.  When PoP first came out and likely when OoW first hits spells won't be all over the place.  Even 61/62 spells used to fetch many k worth of pp when they first came out.  I still know some beastlords that don't have fero/sha's atm and they are almost always up for 20k or less in the bazaar.  Like I said, for me it was more important to always feel like I was atleast on par or better than most other beastlords my level.  I didn't ever want to say "i'm sorry I don't have that buff" or "Sorry I don't have that AA" or whatever.

[Catgal]

I see no points for someone to rush tough places when they know they can't do their "required job" in that places. When a BST needs to be MT in a group, I am pretty sure in most situations, replacing the BST with a tank will just make the group more efficient, why not doing so? Offtanking, yes, required job for BST, but if you look at my magelo (my crappy gears and aa's), imagine how I can use skills to offset my crappy gears and aa's to offtank a mob when required to.

Sorry again I am not a native English people... and no offense if it seems to have some... I am not a flaming people =P

[Chackra]

Beastie B at 65 with a full spellbook but no AA would be considerably more powerful than Beastie A at level 60 with 50 AA.

I would estimate that a level 63 BST with 50AA would be about equal to a level 65 BST with 0 AA.  Assume you are soloing:  the 65 slow alone decreases the damage you take by 30% beyond what the previous slow does.  This is nearly equivalent to maxing all of the defensive AA's.  (This is using the simplest example of soloing; if you are grouped, the odds you would use it are lessened, but then the benefits are greatly increased if you do use it.)  This doesn't count all the "hidden" benefits of leveling - like improved resists, spells stick better, etc.

I heard someone suggest that you should need a certain minimum number of AA's (like maybe 30) before you gain each level after 65.  I think this would be a nice compromise.

[Tastian]

I don't take offense to almost anything and I remember you aren't a native english speaker.  Kinda sad to believe that I am and still speak it so poorly.  A beastlord tanking content can really boost the efficency of some groups.  If you have a beastlord as MT of say a normal LDoN then you have slow covered, you have MT covered and you already have 1 dps class.  You add a healer and you are gtg (maybe a CC but that depends hehe).  If you just remove the beastlord for a plate tank you lose slow, now you have to add another slower if you didn't already have an enc or a shaman as healer.  

This is mostly for content that is easily tanked and not high dps.  Some beastlords still die too quickly.  I remember I used to tank tactics groups for awhile and people were surprised a beastlord tanked it so well.  Beastlords don't take damage well compared to other classes, but when fighting content we are geared/aa'd ahead of we can totally change the group makeup.  I actually recall one beastlord that didn't slow until ~80% of a mobs life because they had no defensive AAs, they had low defense, and if they got aggro they'd die so quickly it wasn't even funny.  Now obviously this isn't just a case of AA, but that was part of it.  Really though it depends what point in the game you are at too.  Like I said everyone has their own twist on what worked for them, which is good because beastlords are a very versitle class.

[Catgal]

hehe Tactian, you didn't get my idea. It is a fact that BST with more aa's > less aa's. But I think that's not what we should be talking about. I meant skills can offset some aa's in many of the grouping situations.

Regarding the slowing at 80%... I slow mobs right when they inc, I only get a hit or 2 in some minor cases (if I know I get hits, /PoS), mostly I won't get a single hit. It's just the skills how to let tanks get aggro.

I am not talking about tipt, vxed tho. I won't live long there until I got the right aa's and gears. Unless I am in a need to get flagged for TK, I won't choose that places to exp and ruin my group... I will simply tell them I am not good enough.