New ideas on AA progression -- Level 70

[Vidyne]

Held my opinion til now.. but

Will our pet having 500 more hp, doing 5 more damage, kragg giving 40 more hp, our stat buffs buffing 10 more to stats, new SD giving us 1 more mana/health regen, pet haste already so very close to cap that it does not matter one bit if its 90% than 85%, 10 more dmg on a new rellic, and 5 more resist on a new fero REALLY compensate for having to exp where mobs will be hitting for 700s-900s and you getting 2%/kill, not 500-600 and you getting that same 2%/kill in BoT like now?

To get the same AA a kill in a group, I FULLY believe you will have to exp in elementals at 70 to get what you get now in Bastion of Thunder.

Will all of those spells ALONE make a beastlord able to survive in Elementals and be useful?  If you took a all 65 group right now, gave them lvl 70 and those spells, and increased everyhting they had maybe 10-20%(not slow though, which they havent improved or listed as being improved last I heard), would they be able to maintain the same exp rate that a lvl 65 group does now with no or few aa in BoT?

Myself, I think very much, NO.

The ONLY reason I, myself went to 65 before AAs was 65% slow, that was the primary reason, there was no other.  64 and 62 pet has something to do with it, fero had a very small part to do with it back then.  I was VERY confident and powerful at 60 or 61.  I thought about stopping at 62 to do 20-50 aas... but was always told, that the 65 slow would change so much and get me so many more groups.  I agree, it has.

Take that slow away, make it so we got a cheaper, faster casting 50% slow at 65, MAYBE with a resist check that was better than 60 version.
Make it so that the lvl 60 pet was lvl 60 not 47, it hit for ... 68 I think? it does hit for that if i remember.  Would you really go to 65 with no AA now?  Without a thought?  Would there be anything to gain from going to 65 first and not paragon?

If my 60 pet was lvl 60 like the 62 one is, even though it hit for 6 dmg less and had 300ish less HP, and my 60 slow was the same % as the 65 one... I would have waited a LOT longer to hit 65.

At current, I see no reason to rush to lvl 70, I see a lvl 70 as a 65 with just "slight and very minute" upgrades to a 65.  The way it is now, I see a 65 with his spells as a much better slower and a much better offtanker with his pet than a lvl 60 beastlord.

If I knew a 70 beast with 18aa and a 65 beast with 80aa, id invite the 65 with much higher preference if I was playing another class.
If I know a 65 bst with LR5, im not inviting any Beast regardless of being lvl 70 unless he also has LR5.  I know for a fact what breaks and makes things in groups im in... and the barely stronger spells of OoW and the small minute change in mitigation the beast would receive would not make enough of a difference when compared to LR5 or other AAs.

At the moment, for most classes(spellcasters), the spells they receive are strong enough for the places they exp(bazaar geared and non-flagged 65s), to not warrant them needing AA, and to overshadow 60s that dont have those spells.  A 65 Druid I think will do fine in BoT healing, and I think will do better than a 60 druid with healing AA and scr3 and maybe... sotw.  Why?  because the spells are that powerful between 60 and 65 atm.

In OoW, there is a very very small gap in between 65 spells and 70 spells, at least for beastlord and the few classes ive looked at.  Unless the spell was enough of an increase to warrant leveling, Im still going to lean towards 65 with some AAs to 70 with hardly any.

Now for Clerics now, a 60 cleric might could outdo a 65 cleric with less AAs( like 60aa for the 60 and 12 for the 65).  For Tanks, the improved mitigation of lvl 70 may be enough for them to warrant going for it first and not AAs.  For beastlords, I feel it is very unwise to go to 70 first then AA, I feel it is quite wise to get barely what you need AA wise then go to 65 and AA from there.

The difference between 60 and 65 is worth it to beasts, you can do aas, but youll need to get lvls for some of the AAs anyway(planar ones like LR and ID).   The difference between 65 and 70 isnt worth it IMO, as AAs give much better return til about 150 or 200, then lvl 70 would be worth it to go to IMO.


Lvl 70 will effect exp, you wont get 2%/kill in groups in BoT anymore, youll only get that from Earth or maybe SolRo probably.  Will you have the AAs to last in Earth or SolRo at 70?  When you do its fine to go to 70...  IMO.
However for me, im getting as many AA as I can while its still easy to get decent exp(being 65 and places like BoT giving 2% and SolRo giving 3%)
Im not going to lvl to 70 for very very minute improvements and anything less than a 70% slow, just to see my aa exping now take twice as long at the same places... with only a 10% faster killing ability.


10% faster killing
50% less exp..
(this is because of the 5 lvl exp bonus, if a mob is within 5 lvls of you, you get more exp?[was told to me a few times]  Dinging 69 would mean BoT would no longer be in that 5 lvls except for krigers, and as such no more exp bonus, just saying Bot would be trivial then, and youd be forced to move to SolRo and Eles, and could that 10% more effectiveness really REALLY help you there more than 100aa would?)
10% does not = 50%...


All guesses and assumptions, you dont have to like my opinion, but given the data on OoW at current, I just dont feel like 70 is worth much at all.

[Roadkill]

Personally, i disagree with the commen level > aa route in two situations.

a) if you are twinked to hell - you might just want to stop, and find a sweet spot to aa at, currently my beast is level 60, im earning +/- 1% aa per kill in nurga and other areas, and the only downtime is that which i create. the reasoning behind this is that you can milk the twink vs mob disparity.

b) you are under geared - if your gear is poor, you might acctually be better off going aa' while you farm your favourite area for cash to upgrade, lets face it, even if you win/are givin the 65 slow.. if you cannot live through a round of agro do to gear.. what is the use?

when it comes to milking twink vs mob disparity - i find that it also seems like i earn exp quicker then my higher level peers and freinds  when i do get groups in  areas such as pov/bot etc just because those mobs, being red/yeller or higher blue to me kick in the exp bonus.. but i cannot back that up with facts.

In conclusion, when ever it comes to this paticular discussion, it all depends on what your goals are, and what your friends are doing. My main has been 65 for an aweful long time,  i personally like the idea of haveing a toon that isnt one rounded by yard trash, therefore i will mostlikely keep the beasty at 60 for quite some time.


http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1004289

[madweazl]

A couple of friends in game (I'm in the military and always fall behind my friends, end up playing a lot of catch up) recommended that I hit 65 before I turned on AA's. I dinged 65 about a week ago I guess and I'm so glad that I waited. I dont have great gear, hell, I sit on 5400hp fully buffed with AC right around 1100 (just over usually). I dont have my 65% slow yet, only Ferocity as I cant find the other ones for sale on Prexus (Fero ran me 12k in case anyone was interested).

I have no trouble finding groups and I've never had a problem with them dropping me because I only had the 50% slow either. 60-65 was a piece of cake I thought, I did a level a day in PoV and BoT after 62. In BoT I get 2% AA a kill and about 1% lvl Exp (90% going to AA until level is maxed) every 15 mobs. AAs roll in so quickly since they are based on the lvl 51 points scale its just unreal. I just cant imagine stopping for AA sooner, there just isnt anything a bst absolutely needs.

I finished up Run 3 and Regen 3 the other day and going to work on offense mainly (I'll mix in CA for mitigation purposes as I'd rather be missed twice than have 300 extra hit points any day). I would say wait regardless, I'm glad that I have.

[Xarilok]

No offense, but folks like you are the prime example of why NOT to wait till 65 for grinding AA.

You are NOT level 65.  You are a level 60, with a few extra HP.

When I invite a level beastlord to a group, I would expect to have them landing a 65% slow, since that is what I invited them for.

Had you done some AA along the way, you would have CA3, SRC3 and Paragon by now, probably pet hold too, and much better gear.

Folks that grind away to 65, and get there with no AA, no gear and no spells make me want to scream.

I'm sorry, but being 65 means casting a 65% slow, not doing the same thing a level 60 can, with 200 more HP.

[madweazl]

How would working on AAs get me better gear? If you are relying on a beast for slow you probably arent a group I want to be either. I dont mind slowing if thats what I'm asked to do and I've yet to have anyone reject me because of that fact. You invite a beastlord for DPS, if he is able to offer something than great.

I gain an AA about every hour and fifteen minutes and will surpass a 60 in very little time. Your way worked for you, this way works for me. Thats the nice thing about alternate advancement I guess.

Paragon is gravy as well, and by next weekend I should be up around 30+ AAs. I think an AA in the amount of time I'm averaging is pretty quick and the groups I'm in never complain about mana soo, Paragon can wait too.

[Tastian]

"How would working on AAs get me better gear?"

Working on AAs gets you better gear for the level you are at.  If you just rush to 65 and have no AAs you only have so much time put into your character, but you are 65.  However, if you stop at 55, 60, 62, wherever and AA some, even just 10 hours more say then that's 10 more hours you spent getting money, playing your character, grouping, or whatever.  The differance between a 65 beastlord with no AAs and a 65 beastlord with 50AAs is quite large in most cases.  Not just because of the AAs, but because of the time spent on them and the other things that come with it.  This of course isn't absolute and some 65s with 300AAs are clueless about the class and some people are just good players, but stopping to AA gives you more time to make money and play your class without having the level go up.  There are a lot of ways to advance in EQ and many of them don't even have a state tied to them.  I know some people that have improved greatly just by adjusting their hotkeys and macros.  8)  *shrugs*

[Vidyne]

"How would working on AAs get me better gear? If you are relying on a beast for slow you probably arent a group I want to be either. I dont mind slowing if thats what I'm asked to do and I've yet to have anyone reject me because of that fact. You invite a beastlord for DPS, if he is able to offer something than great"

Hrm, I agree with ya, but sheesh. tell some of the groups I get this :)
Im usually shaman/enchanter and beastlord.

We do fine though.

Hes just saying, 65% slow is a big drawing card, and thats one of the big reasons to ding 65.  Myself, I wouldnt ding 65 if I didnt have slow, (though i did, but had slow about 4 days later).


It should be asked when they ask you to group tho, do you have 65 slow?  if not, then they can decide.

Its just such a powerful tool, that you can start to replace a shaman in a group, and that brings us into even more grouping situations.

Since so many beastlords are now performing the jobs of shamans/enchatners, people get lazy I guess... and start to expect every beastlord to be able to perform that job.

We have some necros in our LDoNs who offtank mobs and even had one in SolRo the other day offtanking(this was AMAZING to say the least).
I have seen some people ask necros in groups to offtank...  i know all necros probably cant.  (Necros with LR5 and high lifetaps can do pretty well on a mob tanking it for a short while, or long while, depending on the necro)  However im not one to invite a necro for offtanking purposes, its purely emergency for me.  

erm, too sleepy to go on, so ill just stop there i guess mid thought.

[Hereki]

What is revealed here is a difference in attitude.  Some folks don't mind being in a group and carried by their group mates; others want to make an equal or greater contribution to any group they are in.

The first set hit 65 with 0 AAs, missing most spells, being carried (effectively power leveled) by their groups/guild.  The others take longer to get their because they solo more, probably wait around 60-62 to get paragon, and wait for Sha's Revenge and Ferocity (and SD) to hit 65.

To be fair, the emphasis on raid > group > solo is what creates this attitude; it's all a part of the game, and an essential part of raiding in EQ - where you get better loot by being afk for 3:45, then play Simon Says for 15 mins.

[madweazl]

Right now Sexzy is 16 days and 18 hours old. I soloed exclusively until 60 where exp was quicker to obtain grouped (I have a 65 druid that I boxed with much of time).  I started as a very mild twink as I invested in a full set of Acrylia armors and a Centi Warhammer. Everything from that point on was funded by Sexzy, I quested the EoS (only cost me about 1100pp because I waited for good deals on stuff) and the Cloak of Greater Pernicity as well. I had every single spell many levels before I could use them until 65. Ferocity is for sale most days, I saw Acumen for the first time in two weeks today and picked it up, I was able to get Plague obviously as well. I have yet to see any other 65 beastlord spells for sale in the last two weeks, period. I have the coin to grab them.

I havent purchased other gear becase there isnt anything with stats that are near worth buying for what people are asking. I will wait for drops.

At this point I am working on AAs and will be seeking a nice guild where I mostly certainly plan on getting help. I dont want money or gear handed to me, I want to go to areas I havent been.

I've played 3 years now and have a pretty good clue how things work. I agree there are a lot of crappy players, I'm not one of them and on Prexus all my toons have a very good reputation for solid game play and a good attitude.

As I typed this I put LFG up and it took all of 3 minutes to get an invite from some peeps I grouped with the other night in BoT :) Guess they dont mind me leeching off of them some more  :roll:

[madweazl]

Oh yea, I play a Shaman and a Chanter too, though I've given up hope with the chanter as few groups seem to take advantage of what they can do. Seems people cant read anymore.

[madweazl]

Well, just found Sha's Revenge. 20k on prexus off another beast in BoT :) Guess I'm almost worthwhile in a group now :roll:

[Vidyne]

*sigh*

sexzy

I didnt mean that at all.

Beastlords are meant for dps and the 50 slow is fine, Im just saying that the 65 slow puts us in a position to be dps and be able to slow too and do both very well.  When we can replace a shaman and chanter, it allows the group to bring in different elements and more dps.  At height, a beastlord brings 2 offtanks, dps, slowing, shm buffing, hasting, and even minor healing to a party.

I was just saying, that since some people see a few beastlords doing this, then they tend to start to think that any beastlords can fill all those roles in their head(I dunno why) and thats why some might dump you, when you dont have the 65 slow, or other things.  I did not mean to upset you if I did.   Wasnt saying you leech off other party members, because you dont.

[TerjynPovar]

To the day I quit it annoyed the crap out of me when people would ask me if I had the 65% slow before inviting me to a group somewhere easy.  Most people in a standard pickup group can't even really tell the difference between the two.  If it was a pickup group trying to attempt Hard LDoNs or GoD I'd buy it, but for normal LDoN or PoP Tier 1-2?  Please, spare me.

a) if you are twinked to hell - you might just want to stop, and find a sweet spot to aa at, currently my beast is level 60, im earning +/- 1% aa per kill in nurga and other areas, and the only downtime is that which i create. the reasoning behind this is that you can milk the twink vs mob disparity.

Nurga is a bad example.  Soloing for XP in Nurga at 65 is really really fast, such that if you are doing it quick at 60 it'll be even faster at 65.  Now if the zone greens out that might be different, but Nurga does not.  As a matter of fact, Nurga is the place where if I was "in the zone" I could solo for XP fastest out of all the zones I ever tried. :)

[Hereki]

Heh - actually, Nurga is a good example :).  At 62 I could get exp faster in Nurga than I can at 65.  But there was a wide range in how fast I could get exp at 61/62, depending on number of AAs.  At 65 with, say 50 AAs, I was much faster than at 62 with only 18 AAs, but slower than 62 with enough AAs to have Elder title.  My sweet spot at 62 was the Jeopla/Thabis corridor; at 65 I roam from Breplish to Donkot usually.

[Kromjr]

Guess in the end the big question is "ARE YOU HAVING FUN" if so then we got the right answer ;)