How many AA's/AC/HP to reliably tank in Planes?

[Bulge]

This is about tanking yourself full-time, not off-tanking for a bit, or aiding your tanking pet now and then.
I am currently level 59 and still having fun in Ykesha and other non-PoP zones, boxing my party of 5(druid/cleric/mage/necro). I have been adding healing power to my group lately, and the cleric is climbing up fast. Now Healing and DPS is all nice and dandy, but that does not necessarliy mean I can tank yet.

I have Bazaar-bought gear (the higher end stuff, but still nothing Uber) and a Tunic of Kinship(my only Raid piece), and 3 AA's. :) My magelo is down the post. AC with current partybuffs is around 1050, Hp is nearing 4k.

I hate kiting with a vengeance and never plan to do it. I do not like my pet tanking either, it's just not my thing. I want to play with the mob too and I dislike pet-clericing. I favor the non-stop killing and melee contact I have now with my BL and his backup party(it's why I started boxing so frantically), and do not want to change this way of playing. I have lots of DPS with my Mage and Necro, so fights will be somewhat shorter then your average two-boxer. However, the way PoP trash mobs are eating me up right now when I get their attention in a Guild-raid, is frighteningly disturbing.

So I am guessing at least the 50% slow is needed. How many AA"s (the defensive ones) am  I looking at before I can reliable TANK in zones like PoI and PoD? I ask this because right now I honestly do not see how even a CH cleric and druid could keep up with the healing, the way simple trash mobs are knocking down my hp's. I could be dead in 10 well-placed blows! Will I be needing 90+ AA's or some? Most posts from people soloing in the planes seem to  be either from very Uber Beastlords or those that kite. If fighting in the planes means I have to pretty much drain my party from mana all the time and then med, I may just skip the whole "grind in the planes" anyway. It's the non-stop fighting that I made my party for.

Thanks!

EDIT: Umm, my Magelo was down there on the other forums, let me get that straight  here too. :)

[Skanda]

It's more about levels then AA. At least for first tier planes. At 65 I can solo PoI/PoD/PoN pretty easy. In a group, with 50 AA, I can tank tier 2 zones pretty well as long as I have a solid healer duoing with me. I still need a lot more AA before I think I'll be any good for tier 3 stuff other then as an offtank.

[Nunyabiz]

im thinking once you get about lvl 62 you will be alot better off as far as tanking in POI/POD/PON.
But best AAs to get tanking wise are CA3/LR5

I tanked very well in POI when i was lvl 61-62 had just basic bazaarwear zero defensive AAs but did have my AGI at 255, somewhere around 5K Hps, I got pretty hammered by the Archaic models but OK with most everything else.

and it certainly doesnt hurt to max your AGI regardless what all the neysayer/parse fanatics say.

I didnt bother with AAs much til I got to lvl 65, i just got enough to barely get Paragon then put 100% exp into leveling to 65, once you get 65 put 100% exp into AAs and you can make AAs WAY easier and faster.

[Gimrol]

So I am guessing at least the 50% slow is needed. How many AA"s (the defensive ones) am  I looking at before I can reliable TANK in zones like PoI and PoD? I ask this because right now I honestly do not see how even a CH cleric and druid could keep up with the healing, the way simple trash mobs are knocking down my hp's.

First off, you do need a bigger slow.  A 30% slow on PoP mobs isn't really going to get the job done.  

I'm currently at level 62 and I have CA2, but no other defensive aa's.  My magelo doesn't have the exact correct numbers, as I have a little over 1000 ac unbuffed, but it is close.  Assuming I have a compenent group, I can tank most xp mobs in a first tier plane, as well as pit mobs in Drunder (I'm not really sure what this camp is called, but it's where the stampede with the piglet spawns), trash in Crypt of decay, and anything in a normal difficulty level 65 LDON, including the named which can hit for up to 550 or so.  Note that I can't really solo tier one yet, as the downtime is excessive even with buffs leftover from raids.  

So, no you don't need 300 aa's to be able to tank.  I'd say if you got to level 62 (basically to get the level 60 pet) and about 20 aa's, you should be fine in tier one and some tier 2.  Also, try experimenting a bit with your heal strategy.  The clerics I prefer to group with do a lot more than just use CH.  Adding the better heals-over-time or instant heals from either the druid or the cleric could make a big difference in how your group operates.

[Bulge]

Thanks so far for the advice, folks. I was indeed planning to level to 62 first before hitting the planes, but it is good to hear I won't have to grind AA's forever first to succeed there.

Gimrol, I should indeed learn to maximize my healing, though this is hard at the moment, grinding mostly blues that go down quit quickly through the combined DPS. This means I hardly have to heal, and the cleric and druid are FM almost constantly. When the going gets tough, as in 1 or two adds, I realize I have to get my healing down a LOT better. But that's all part of the fun, getting better and better to manage this group.

[Tastian]

"and it certainly doesnt hurt to max your AGI regardless what all the neysayer/parse fanatics say."

This is my running problem with some of your posts nunya it *CAN* hurt to max your agi.  At the very high end when you are proc'n avatar or are running 280/305 unbuffed str/dex/etc sure take on AGI.  I've picked up the last three or four agi augs out of LDoN because other than hps the rest really weren't doing much for me.  However, he's 59, he's in bazaar gear admittedly not "uber".  Now if you keep everything else the same, that is here's item A with XXX and here's item B with XXX + 5agi. That's great getting 5 agi won't hurt you.  However, do you honestly want to see 30's, 40's, and 50's bst running around in +6agi/dex rings instead of 5ac/55hp or whatever rings because they think agi does a LOT more than it really does?

No agi won't hurt you, just like getting certain AA won't, but you are giving it up other things in this case.  I'm not anti-agi, I even run a higher agi than most, but seriously a lot of your posts come across endorsing certain things that will make the character worse.  It's all pretty minor really one item here or there isn't likely to make that big of a different, but it's still possible.  Also no parser/naysayer has ever to my knowledge said that agi makes you take *more* damage or hinders you.  They simply say that it doesn't show enough of a benefit verse other things and if you have those options go with them first if you really want.

[Nunyabiz]

im not exactly sure just how i have to word stuff in here to get you people to understand what im saying instead of putting words in my mouth that im simply not saying.

what part of this "It certianly doesnt hurt to max your AGI" says forget everything else F8uck AC to hell with HPs, Dex? Bah screw Dex, just concentrate on AGI BoyE and only AGI?

you guys need to try just read what it is im ACTUALLY saying and stop freaking trying to read between some lines that are'nt there.

No matter what you do at lvl 59, as you upgrade your AGI is going to go up wether you like it or not. you would probably have to try hard to avoid it
Most of the better Beastlord gear has decent AGI on it, most of it also has crappy AC thats just the curse of wearing Leather.

We are an avoidance class, even IF you could get really good AC like over 1400+ your not going to get the same benefit from it as Plate classes do.

Myself right now ALL i aim for is HPs period, well and maybe some resist, but 90% of what im going for is HPs HPs HPs.
But that because im maxed at 305 on Str/Sta/Agi/Dex when buffed. im at 289 Wis which is fine and about 1282 AC buffed.

although with a Bard in group im maxed at 500 on all resist also.

My ultimate goal is 9000Hps which ill probably never see, still need little over 1300Hps and i can only see maybe another 400-500 in the future

[Rippykin]

what part of this "It certianly doesnt hurt to max your AGI" says forget everything else F8uck AC to hell with HPs, Dex? Bah screw Dex, just concentrate on AGI BoyE and only AGI?

The part of what you say that says forget everything else is this:

and it certainly doesnt hurt to max your AGI regardless what all the neysayer/parse fanatics say.

The reason why should be fairly clear. Unless someone has access to uber gear, maxing a stat is a TRADEOFF. It's not a gimme. One will be LOWERING some other stat to raise their agility. It's as simple as that. So, you're more than entitled to your feelings. Where people are going to call you on it though is when you give advice that flies the face any tangible evidence.

I've read many of your posts. I know that you very obviously have a deeply seated belief in the value of agility. But keep in mind that there's a very significant difference between giving agility some props and telling someone to max a stat that beastlords aren't even able to self-buff. If you feel persecuted by the parsers why don't you collect some evidence and parse it for the rest of us. You're the one with the maxed agility so you should be the ideal person to empirically test this. However until you do this, you continue to give out advice that sounds a lot like, "The earth is flat because I haven't fallen off yet."

[Nunyabiz]

well i still fail to see how you can misinterpet that sentence to mean screw all other stats just max AGI.
If fact is says and was meant to say, Just simply dont forget about AGI because its not nearly as useless as the parsers say it is.

Hell even the only slightly decent parse ive seen done by a BEASTLORD, (im not interested in the slightest what any stat does or doesnt do on a Plate class) clearly (if you believe every parse you see as gospel) showed that there was a approx 3% increase in misses just going from around 190 AGI to i think was just over 200, so less than 20AGI.
I hardly call that useless.

as far as me doing some parse, If you had read many of post I think i also clearly state that i dont really believe the vast majority of them because they are so skewed in one way or another. so i dont see the need to waste alot of time mulling over numbers.
The ONLY need I see for parses of anykind personally is just to determine the DPS between various weapons, other than that they are useless to me and to me at least are more misleading than they are are helpfull.
Just about every beastlord here looks at some parse some Warrior did on the effects of AC and now thinks if he as a leather wearing Beastlord gets his AC higher he is going to mitigate like he is wearing plate.
and he isnt not even close.

Fact is the RNG>All   then comes your Level----then comes your AAs---
Then comes your "stats".
They are about the least important attribute on your Char.

I just love how everyone keys in on one sentence, completely misinterpets it, turns it into what YOU want it to mean, and totally disregards what I said really makes the most difference which is get from 59-62, then IF you choose to get AAs prior to lvling to 65 and you want to tank better I suggested CA3/LR5 as the 2 that i felt gave by far the best boost in tanking.


CA3 you know gives a solid 10% boost in Avoidance no parse needed.
LR5 I believe gives another 2% per lvl so 10%

That 20% avoidance boost made a HUGE difference in my tanking ability

IMO when i took my AGI from in the 150ish range to 305 it also added a decent percentage to my avoidance, what percentage? i have no idea.
But adding just less than 20AGI (according to the parse posted here "Not my opinion) supposedly showed roughly a 3% boost in avoidance.

Somehow i think the other 130+ i added may have added a few more percentages also, but thats just what I CHOOSE to believe, rest of ya can think it does absolutely ziltch, thats great.

and as you said yes there are some tradeoffs especially in lower lvl gear, although seems to me most of the tradeoffs i went though seemed to center more around Wisdom.
Most all of the decent gear has AGI, so if you want to get better AC and HPs your AGI is going up wether you like or not.
Some exceptions are jewelery such as Bracelet of Quickness comes to mind
Has decent AC but zero HPs....The "Tradeoff" is its easy to get and does give 12AC 15Dex 15AGI and +6 to all resist and when you count in the AC from the AGI its really 15AC, so at the time I opted to tradeoff a few HPs to get 15AC/Dex/AGI and decent resist.
I then traded that for a "Silver Bracelet of Speed"
38AC & 100Hps plus 10 wis and 41% Haste beat out the +15AC/Dex/Agi

Since then I traded off again to Dumuls bracer in which i lost about 15AC in trade for and extra 35Hps plus much better resist plus about 20atk and +17AGI.
The only reason i could do that is I still had a nice 41% haste item.

There are only 3 Bracers in game better so now my options are few and far between if ever, and one of those 3, which happens to be the best one, is still an upgrade to my AGI +25, go figure, how dare they put such a useless stat that does absolutely nothing on the very best Beastlord bracer in game....the freaking nerve.

and im sure everyone is going to nik pik this post also, which is fine, its simply my opinion no more no less.
Its actually kinda funny .

RNG>All

[Rippykin]

And I fail to see how you can fail to see that a new player being told to max their agility might end up screwing themself over when it comes to AC, HP or stats that are actually useful.

So, I guess that makes us even.

Each person can read through this and make up their own mind about the validity of each of our positions. I think that the necessary points have been made.

[Tastian]

"No matter what you do at lvl 59, as you upgrade your AGI is going to go up wether you like it or not"

If agi is going to go up anyways then why even say it doesn't hurt?  It's not the old roll over resist bug.  No one has ever said more agi is bad.  The simple truth is without primal and/or other high level gear to actually max your agi is going to cost you a *lot* of other stats.  *shrugs* I dunno it's pointless.  I really like how strongly you care/feel about your bst and stuff, but if you can't see that the wording you using and the opinions you often express can *hinder* a lot of beastlords reading it (and that's why me and others constantly post after you with followups and disclaimers) then there's nothing more I can say or do.  You make your posts I'll post a follow up and me and you never actually have to exchange posts with each other, okies?  Like I tell everyone enjoy *your* beastlord and have fun with him, good luck on 9k, TTFN.

[Dysz]

i tank for a trio: cleric & ranger 2boxed, and myself.  I have ND3 PE and CA2 and i haven't died in a LONG time from tanking in crypt of decay (which is where we usually go).  however, it is viable to tank in halls of honor, or bastion of thunder courtyard (the bees, we don't do it cause he doesn't like the pulling).  I have also tanked in tactics, but the mitigated slows usin terms of damage taken.  THe cleric usually use AA's to heal, dva and cr, and in tactics he had to cheal several times a fight.  we got some more dps and we were relatively ok.  but my stats are in the profile.  this is all without elemental access for gear, and little ornate (hopefully the first part will change soon :D)

i can (and usually do) solo in poi if my friend isn't around and im LFG, ill just solo there on downtime.  I assume I could solo in pon or pod as well, but there is considerably less lag for me in poi.  i also have soloed a few mobs in cod, but the downtime isn't really worth it, unless im doing something else at the same time.

[Nunyabiz]

And I fail to see how you can fail to see that a new player being told to max their agility might end up screwing themself over when it comes to AC, HP or stats that are actually useful.

LOL well AGI is actually usefull.
But thats besides the point, Im not now nor have i ever said to max your agi and forget everything else or at the expense of anything else.

Once again, just saying to simply consider it as you would anything else.

If you think AC is the magic bullet for a beastlord your the one that dreaming...we dont wear plate.

this is getting bit wierd kinda like im talking to somebody in English with a Chinese interpeter but the person im speaking to is German.

in other words fruitless

[Ragnarson]

Actually, with the necro, mage, bst combo, I would do my very OWN PET GROUP.  I would just sit back with your nukers/dotters and have the cleric heal the pets with the bst slow. Anyhow, it is a lot safer that way in my opinion. You can camp the spiders and dieflers in PoD easily. Pet groups are so powerful that they can do the wing names in BoT and easily handle the mobs in HoH and LDoN. But Tactics was the best place where I did a Pet group so far. Just my suggestion

-Ragnarson

[Bulge]

I see your point, Ragnarrson, but when I would start fighting that way, I would get fed up with the game in about 3 evenings and cancel all my accounts. :)  I admit that my tanking as a BL for such a high damage group (BL is still highest level though) may not be the smartest or most mana-efficient thing to do, but the most important reason I like playing my Beastlord so much is the fact that I can melee.

If I stop doing that I may as well go back to my old love the druid and go rot everything solo. ;)  But it's good to hear our pets become such good tanks. Right now though, at level 59, I tank MUCH better then my pet. He gets eaten up fast when he is tanking Bloodguards in Torgiran Mines.


Cheers!