What are beastlords "best" at, what defines our cl

[Inunokami]

I'd think from our pet and meele hybridism we are the lords of pet spam  :D

[Kromjr]

We are the best at being sexy.

What else could you ask for?

:D  :)  :wink:

Heck ya my ogre in his daisy dukes gets constantly sexually harassed. and I LIKE IT

[Skratchen]

Beastlords are pretty well rounded around high pop/ele level, after that we fall behind especially in GoD. In the high end were just there for SD/Paragon and thats it, our dps is very low, our usability (stat buff, slow etc) is just not needed because it is subpar as well, our pets fall way behind in terms of power-progression. I dont ask to get shaman slows, monk dps or mage pets, but a small dps upgrade would be nice since that is really the only thing we can do on raids now (except SD of course or paragon).

I have to strongly agree with Dummkopf.  Since GoD has come out, speed in killing mobs has become much more paramount than slowing mobs.  Basically this spells out that DPS is king in regards to the new content.  Beastlords have fallen signifcantly behind in the DPS power curve in relation to other DPS oriented classes.  I think some possible solutions could include more double attack AAs or some DPS oriented AA's that specifically boost the damage dealing capability of the beastlord and their warder.  

The beastlord as a class relies on 3 areas to achieve it's full dps potential,  melee, spells and pet.  Give a rogue, monk or warrior a better weapon, and their DPS increase is directly proportional to how much better that weapon is than what that they had previously.  On the other hand, if a beastlord gets a weapon upgrade, only 1 of the 3 damage dealing abilities is boosted.  My point with this is, beastlords need more ways to boost their DPS because of how fractionally their DPS increases.  

It's obvious that beastlords pay a price for their utility, but at the Raiding level of the game, beastlord utility is really inmaterial.  Niches and specialties shine in raids and without a way to have a nich, a minor buff and (hopefully)competitive DPS is all that a beastlord can hope to offer in raiding environment.

[Jzath]

After slogging my through all the posts, I have realized that I have only truly played hybrid classes.  I have experimented with melee or caster only classes but never taken them beyond 30 level.  All my 60+ classes have been hybrids.

I like the varied roles I can play.  Very important in 6 person groups.  Obviously waters you down in raid roles when things have to be done a certain way because you have to eek out the best odds you can so you will go with the class that has the best chance in that role.

Get a bard, beastlord, chanter in your 6 person group and I heard people saying they could not get their mana below 70% while I was practically chain pulling.

When I decided to give my 65 bard a rest, I was pulled to play a beastlord.  Using my pet to offtank to give the chanter time to mez, being main healer, buffing my friends, topping off health to allow main healer to med more, keeping aggro off twinked rogue with help of FoL, wading in there to melee as MT, offtanking.....

Yeah, other clases can do one thing better or get to do some of the variety, but no class gets to everything a beastlord can do.  I am not pidgeon holed into one aspect.

What makes a beastlord a desireable, best....whatever?  The person behind the toon playing them.  I have a blast finding ways to do things that others don't want to even bother trying to figure out.  Playing a beastlord gives me more options with a twist that other classes do not, even other hybrids.

It is tough to give hyrbrids a class defining role because by definition, we can have multiple roles.

[Killian22]

well just my 2cp and be it that I am not up to GoD lvl raiding stuff yet but I have been around awhile and I used to play a shaman as my main but stopped playin him cause they only have one use before OoW and that was slower which was quickly negated by the fact that so many classes could slow almost as good and slows started becoming mitigated in PoP as well as the fact that PoP gear pretty much made maxing stats with buffs null and void and with OoW out you can pretty much max your stats by 65 with baz gear or at least almost. So I rolled a BL and never looked back have a blast with the class but enough about me on to what I think the class needs flame on cause I know some peeps will its what they live for  :-P

1. Tanking: I dont know about you guys but I tank just fine in PoV at 61 on golems, albeit I cant tank raid mobs but we arent designed to tank raid mobs thats a Warriors or a well geared Pal/SKs job. No we cant handle taking ramp , yes we will get eatin if we take agro from the raid mob. But in certain situations we can tank just fine and yes I know that  your beloved parsing things say ALL classes save int casters and druids can mitigate better than us but I seriously doubt that no matter what them stupid parses say it just aint so nuff said (next time u got a druid and BL in group with no war go head and tell the BL to heal while the druid tanks and see who soaks up the clerics mana faster). I know GoD era we cant tank nor can we do OoW tanking it was made for plate classes obviously and as it should be they are the tanks not us. All and all we arent meatshields we are paper tanks and mana sponges just like rangers, monks, rogues, etc etc if your guild is trying to have you tank _001 raid mob then you should just /guildremove cause they are just dumb but wont talk about tanking anymore we all know we can tank what we solo just fine and we are happy with it. Just as a little side note to show you we tank better than rangers and all other classes aside from plate tanks I was in sky last night doing some epic stuff for a necro friend ( which fuggin sucks azz btw) and me 61 BL and a 65 ranger with epics and pretty decent gear (more hp and ac than me keep this is mind higher lvl, more hp, more ac we both above 1200ac and 5k hps) so he goes in before me for some reason so he has healer healin em on and he goes down pretty fast from 3 of them imp things I come in and start tankin em and last longer than him  and he had healer so dont think we tank right below wars sks and pallies cause we can key factor.

2 DPS: Not sure how it gets way on up there as I am only 61 atm but I can agree with you guys here and I know Tastion is workin on it so gratz to him for workin with them sonz of bishes at SoE. I personally think atm I do good dps I do bout 90-110 dps not countin pet atm without disc but then again I am blessed with pretty decent gear for my lvl you'll see it in sig if you click it (BUT and I say but because not everyone is as lucky as me to have gotten hooked up) our dps is to sporadic we do have so many aspects that contribute to it and I really didnt realize it till I read this board more thoroughly, so gj whoever did that stuff, our dps is all in all {the BL himself, our pet, minorly is spells and hugely is procs) So it would be nice to see a pretty decent boost in one area or a little bit in two areas (fuk spells waste of time you cant hit while u cast,  not saying I dont cast spells cause I do lol but it shouldnt be what gets raised to help our dps, so either pet  or pet and the bl itself) the only thing i can see thats reduces our melee dps and correct me if I am wrong cause I not totally sure is the fact that we dont get double attack which makes a huge difference in dps, so I cna only think to either give us double attack skill but have it cap at a lower lvl and then AAs will add to the chance to double attack but that takes to much coding prolly so why not just add more AAs for double attack to raise the chance to do it to say 50% hell thats not bad (and I am sure this has alrdy been suggested and shot down over and over again cause I know I aint that much of an original thinker but its still a thought) or give our pets a huge melee dps increase cause I can already tell that at lvl 70 my pet is just gonna be like SK pets are to them prettymuch a speed bump on raids and dont last long enough to even waste time casting after their first death cause then u arent contributing any dps at all but then again I am willing to bet all pets have that same problem cause my pet aint the only one that drops from AoE ramp on raids its pretty much all of em so I guess I answered my own question and prolly fortified the fact that the BL itself needs the dps upgrade not our pets jsut make them tank better but will talk about that in pet section  :-P

Healing: Face it we suck at it nuff said I dont care if I wanted to heal all the time I woulda rolled a cleric, that being said we are ghetto patch healers at best on very rare occasions will I drop back to heal the MT in hopes that it keeps him alive long enough for the real healer to get enough mana to Cheal em which it usually doesnt but hey ya gotta try  :-P who cares if a ranger heals better than us they are a hybrid druid who have some damne nice heal spells we are a hybrid shaman who have been gimp healers since luclin nuff said moving on.

Slows: Hell slowers are a dime a dozen now Shamans used to be king at it (and still are)then Chanters came in and were able to do it almost as good then bards came in with their little slow and necros dont count I mean how many undead are there in the game really so stop given em props cause their slow is purely situational and it doesnt merit any credit nuff said, then we came in and we do pretty damne good even though its only 65% thats still damne good for a hybrid class hell its only 10% slower than the big dog as it should be we are hybrid shaman and it dont really matter anymore everything mitigates in some form so no one slows for full anymore. So basically if a shaman or chanter is there they are gonna be slower cause theirs is better which means even if it mitigates the % of slow is still gonna be higher ( not sure if chanter slow is better than our 65 but I am pretty sure it is or at least same % correct me if I am wrong) hell np for me slow away I will pre slow for ya to save u from aggro and help the tank not get beat up so much it aint gonna save cleric mana though cause if you wait till its safe u are just wastin mana cause shaman alrdy cast it so you are gonna get beat on a bit if u cast right off oh well thats why our def capps higher i guess than those oh so much better mitigating classes that the parses say i can take it heal me and move on or I step back and heal myself a little and jump back in the frey.  Dont think I have seen to many BLs bitch about this one I am happy with my slow other than it does bounce abit which really does suck, (this is off topic but the key to our tanking ability lies in our slow if we cant slow it then we aint tanking it nuff said dont try to tank somthin u cant slow it hurts) so whoever posted that idea about given us a resist mod to our slow good idea cause it does bounce quite a bit. Thats the only thing I can think of for our slow is what has alrdy been stated on mod to it.

Pet: Alright this is what our class was designed to be at first I think we do have some pretty damne good pets and I will say that forever I just parsed my lvl 60 pet to my friends lvl 60 pet (and when i say my lvl 60 pet i mean the khati sha pet not aragg and his was the actual pet lvl 60 air pet who is a mean mofo i might add) both were fully buffed witih my buffs aside form his pet not having my pets proc or haste had his own both had full pet kit and they went at it yeh my pet lost but my pet got em down to like 60% before he died I think thats pretty good for a lvl 40somthin pet to a lvl 60 pet. But that being aside I cant really say much for our pets in GoD hell I cant really post anything on our pets except hearsay that they kinda suck past PoP will have to fill me in here on that one but I dont doubt it that they kinda suck in GoD+ all pets prolly do the mobs jsut hit to hard and to fast for the pets to do anything to em. But pls dont say necro pets are better than our pets as far as dmg I did a parse once again with same pet and lvl 65 necro pet and my pet ate em up they hate no kits but still puffed em up and my pet won. Now not sure if our pets get a nice boost from pet AAs from GoD and OoW would like some input on that myself so I know if I should waste AAs on em up front or wait till I get around to em. So for this topic I cant really say anything except that I like my pet and he does add to our dps as a whole I am sure he ups our dps by at least 20 if we can keep em alive.

DDs: If I wanted to have the big booms I woulda rolled a wiz and sat on my ass and wasnt aloud to burn the mob till the MT called it (yes I know wizzies get to do little nukes over the course of the fight and they add major DPS but hell they are just boring imo if they run oom thats it they are done which they wont nowadays but u get what i am saying) I think we get some pretty damne good DDs for the mana we cast for em hell you get a bone studded loop or another cold mod and get some DD AAs u are sitten pretty I think and I dont think a 1k nuke is that bad even if its only every 30 secs thats 2k every min and some change if it lands for full not bad imo. Sure they could give us low resist nukes but then we would be  wizzies and they would bitch up a storm cause thats all a wizzie has got they got nothin else but the big booms if my memory serves me correctly oh and AE TLC and Evac  and that stuff imo we are doing fine for DDs cept maybe give us one pretty decent one with not such a long recast or lower the cecast on ours that we got atm to like 20secs. Point is with all the mana regen out there today in the high end and most of you guys postin this stuff for good or bad are at least 60+ and have raided know that your arent gonna run oom or its very hard too, hell your got the mana cast them DDs and DoTs what else your got to do with the mana might as well make use outta it  :-P

DoTs: hell they are decent we get an added what 1-2k if it goes for full which it prolly wont in a norm xp group but thats ok any u get at least 1-200 dmg outta it and any dmg is good dmg right seein as I see peeps sayin that its all about the dps now well I dont care if its a 1 freakin pt of dmg ds everytime u get hit from the mob its still a point off his life right. I think we are fine on our DoTs If i wanted to be uber DoTr  _001 I woulda rolled a necro or a shaman oh wait thats right rolled a shaman played em for awhile it gets boring unless you like to be lazy.

Buffs: We get some pretty damne good ones here they serve us just fine yeh we cant cast group buffs which chaps my ass like no other ( I do think we shoulda gotten a few group buffs like group kragg or group IoS since shamans are back on top with buffs since OoW) (yes I know we got group IoS but I think they took that away didnt they) but we can supply a tank or dps class with what they need if they dont have maxed stats we will very likely be able to max it with IoS and if that dont work good thing about IoS is that our str,dex,and sta stack with it and if that dont work we got sav/fero but if u are having to cast sav/fero on the tank to max his stats then he needs to be fired this day and age cause he dont need to be were u are prolly and he just sucks (dont blame this on peeps not havin great gear the gear u can buy in baz these days rivals time gear save the focuses and if you dont got the plat to buy baz gear you can farm LDoN and get that armour which isnt to bad actually) All in all I am glad we arnet best buffers I did the buffin as my shaman and it got monotnous and annoying to get tells all the time for can u buff me buff me buff me buff me. I am not saying u guys are bitching about buffs I know we are some very good buffers we evern topped shamans at one time before they got their new OoW spells and we still have very good buffs and they are still useful. As for me I just say make sav/fero last longer and lower the recast time on it hell its what made our class stand out. Oh and for the love of god extend the length of our haste cause it blows I dont even bother hasting sometimes cause it. as far as ranger buffs i would take em over my SV I just prefer the great increase in atk over the loss of like 100hp not like its gonna save me anyways that 100hp but SV over BSS anyday of the week unless I was raiding somthin like AL in ssra or some other mob with a nasty DoT then I could see were having more hp helps its purely situational.

Mana Regen: Hey we get some pretty good mana regen spells nuff said 9hp/mana regen a tick for like 45 min without SCR3 and full EE stuff I will take that anyday and I dont know a toon that wouldnt melee or caster. I dont care if a bard can do 20 a tick hes gotta sing it and he cant all the time hes gotta do other things I dont care if a chanter can do 18 a tick for like 2hrs they was designed for that. I cant really think of an upgrade for that except that SOE is dumb and went from 10 to what 11 on our last mana regen spell they should gone to 12 but hey they hate sexy bst I guess.

Funfactor: This is purely a personaly pref but I persoanlly enjoy playing my BL more than any other class I have ever played and I have played pretty much all of em. SK till 55 nope to dumb imo, all casters till like lvl 16 then said fuk that too stupid save a shaman who i got to 60 and never played a cleric, ranger nope they are gimp, and none have given me the joy of playing the BL we can do so much all by ourselves much like the necro but we have more fun at it imo. I dont think there is any class that has the versatility or can switch playstyles like the BL can and that is what our class is designed to do add versatility to anything a group or solo. Hybrids will never be great at any one thing they never have been and never will be in fact we were given a gift that set us apart from other hybrids in the fact that we get a massive stat buffer in fero and we get paragon no other class gets those and no other hybrid gets somthin that is all theirs.

This post wasnt a bash to you more experienced players (and you little people havent forgotten your 2cp  :-D) I've learned alot from reading these boards and I am sure you could play me under the table on certain things and teach me alot its mostly my thoughts on what I think of the class as a whole so dont get all defensive like I klnow some of u elitist and know it alls get. And I know that most of you are happy with most of our class as a whole and that the main gripe is that we just dont do the dps that we used to and it hurts us in GoD and above cause we just arent needed in place of pure dps power cause of number issues and what not. As well as not being able to get groups well I personally dont have a problem getitng groups and if I cant find one I jsut go AA till i get one no use in sitten around poutin cause u cant find a group go do somthin contructive or logg off and find somthin else to do.

Yes our class needs a boost in MELEE DPS not DD dps not DoT dps fuk the buffs we are fine cept for maybe fero and haste need a little tweeking and slow a mod to it but thats it on spells no upgrades to DD dps its wasted we need an upgrade to melee dps not and not our pet so much as the BL itself the pet could use a little tweeking but thats it.

So Tastion I aint bitchin at you cause from what I hear you are doing a great job as our class rep and i've read some of your post and you seem knowledgable. I am sure you have alrdy sent this up to SEO in more forms shapes and fashions than kellogs make korn flakes but only thing I can give my 2cp on as an upcoming BL (only lvl 61 atm) is that we have our MELEE dps upgraded and fixed and thats it as far as dps goes.

If I got any facts wrong go head and correct em I dont know everything and I know some of you gonna flame there are always those few  :evil:

[Swippe]

well all i don't know how you ever learned to play a BL if you claim we arn't better then all the other classes ... 1 we don't need a healer all the time to keep us alive .. 2 rangers are only good for 1 thing when it comes to tanking a mob ... and thats a speedbump to slow the mob down ... i mean shoot i am such a good tank i can tank North Wall in WoS with a gimp cleric ... that and i also solo Wuoshi on Stromm ... Lodi became brodom after 62 : :-( so learn and challange yourself ... in WoW and in GoD we might be 3rd best slower for slowing a mob ... but when a mob don't slow down for max then we just as good as a shaman or enchanter on slowing ... not like there spell going to slow it even more .. just over write ours ... no diffrence other then a waste of mana for them..

Swippe Wuoshislayer
Stromm
member of Final Door

PS. rember not to be a stranger .... at least not stranger then me   :evil:

[Khayden]

well all i don't know how you ever learned to play a BL if you claim we arn't better then all the other classes ... 1 we don't need a healer all the time to keep us alive

Against any mob that a xp group at 70 will be killing you will need 1 if not 2 healers.  If you're talking about soloing then yes we can solo reasonably well but not as well as other classes.

.. 2 rangers are only good for 1 thing when it comes to tanking a mob ... and thats a speedbump to slow the mob down ...

Rangers have better mitigation, and the same avoidance AAs as us.  If equally geared they're better tanks.  By the way, weaponshield rocks in lots of situations and they're pretty good dps, better than ours.

i mean shoot i am such a good tank i can tank North Wall in WoS with a gimp cleric

Yes well they only hit for what 6-800 there?  A cleric should be able to keep any melee class alive against that.

... that and i also solo Wuoshi on Stromm ... Lodi became brodom after 62 : :-( so learn and challange yourself

While this is fun it has no relevance to a balance discussion.  These mobs are how old?  Many different classes can solo them too.

... in WoW and in GoD we might be 3rd best slower for slowing a mob ... but when a mob don't slow down for max then we just as good as a shaman or enchanter on slowing ... not like there spell going to slow it even more .. just over write ours ... no diffrence other then a waste of mana for them..

Incorrect.  Even though the mob mitigates slow it does so proportionally.  ie mitigates half of a 65% slow or half of a 75% slow.  That means the difference between shammy slow and ours remains significant even on mitigating mobs.  Slow mitigation only affects the usefulness of our slow when soloing.  High magic resists a la MPG makes our slow pretty hard to use and not get aggro, and sticks rarely.

Beastlords are for the most part a nice well rounded balanced class, not the best at anything and not the worst with alot of utility.  In the high end raid game they're well behind many other classes to the point where it needs fixing.

[Swippe]

well i hate to burst your bubble but rangers in my guild if you knew my guild are much more better at getting turned into a speedbump when tanking then BL's .. mainly due to Pet bash + stun proc ... so hate to burst your bubble ... BL's take less dammage from same mob a ranger would tank :P learn the abilitys ... and ok so shaman is like 10% better then our slow ... migated ... what it becomes 2% better... lol ask any guildie of mine BL's rule ... and i can tank MPG ... and emerency tank RS ... i raid buff to 10k so i know i ain't the best BL out there ... and ask alot of tanks in FD would they rather have a shaman or BL in MPG / RS ... BL's rule ... DPS rules ... only thing they really want from a shaman in group there is buffs .... but when tank is 14k raid buffed ... 200 hp's aint' much of a loss to our guild tanks.
and in Woushi killing ... only seen 2 classes that can solo her ... palay and beastlord ... rangers are only good at dammage if mob don't beat them down first ... and if you get the melee vs of Woushi then it's pawned time to the ranger ... aka inc ranger gate ... caster verson is gimp as sin if you have the resists.. and hate to burst your bubble but Final Door is the highest end raiding guild on Stormm now ... Time flaged .. VT / VP / ST / KT and 1 final battle before Qvic... and in our guild BL's are required to join a BL channel on raids for being main slower on inc mobs so shamans don't drop as quick .. we are the CC and the ability to take a beating without doing dammage to the mob... we like cleric work togeather to make the class more uber then what people think we can do ... and i get alot of respect from my guildies due to they have seen what abilitys we can do if you think about it before you do it ... also getting fellow bl's to know what the plan is = $$$ ... rember this ... high end raiding guids arn't based on 1 person or 1 class ... but a bunch of people from the same class can make a big diffrence ... and mulit people from diffrent classes is what makes the raid happen

Swippe Woushislayer
Stromm
member of Final Door

PS. rember don't be a stranger ... at least not stranger them me  :evil:

[Killian22]

well I agree with ya on rangers not being better tanks than BLs THEY DO NOT MITIGATE BETTER trust me..as well dude Swippe we are good but you act like we are the fucking gods and cant be topped  which just aint slow I really doubt that your guild is going to use you as a main healer if they have a shaman their that would just be dumb for one our slow gets bounced off the mob alot which can get annoying.

[Khayden]

Wow.

Just to make it clear, you're not bursting my bubble, no matter how many times you repeat the phrase.

The only reason I replied to you was because you put misinformation up as fact in a post that began "well all i don't know how you ever learned to play a BL".   It was too ironic for me not to reply I'm afraid.

Do I think bsts are a great class?  Hell yes.  Do I have trouble getting a group? Nope.  Do I see any reason to take a shammy over a bst?  Situationally perhaps, most often not.

Firstly rangers...  A ranger with equivalent gear and AAs will have more AC than you and therefore will tank better than you period.  Unless you're doing stuff so old you both have the AC softcap hit.  If you're going to argue that then you're unaware of some key facts and I'd suggest you go read up on mitigation.  Regarding pet bash and stun... pet bash doesn't land much, and pet stun happens for 1.5 seconds every proc if it isn't resisted and the mob is stunnable.  That adds up to a pretty small tanking bonus.  Especially since your pet is still bashing and stunning if the mob is being tanked by the ranger so it's not worth comparing. 

Rangers out dps us, out tank us, and out heal us, which is fine because they don't have pets or slow worth speaking of.  If you don't believe any of these facts that's up to you, but feel free to run a parse of youself and an equivalent ranger dpsing and tanking a dark blue mob and look at the results.

Secondly Slow.    10% different in slow (75%-65%) is equal to 40% more damage taken.  Even mitigated that's still a big difference and well worth the mana especially in places like MPG - do the maths.  Like I said, the problem for us in groups which is well documented is high MR, not slow mitigation.

Thirdly Wuoshi.  Wuoshi has no relevance whatsoever to this at all.  I know of plenty of other people who play other classes that can solo her, it's not hard.  It has no bearing on how good/bad we or rangers are at all.

By the way, I'm in a raiding guild maybe 3 months behind yours in the content.  I've raided from Yelinak all the way through NToV, Kael, Ssra, VT, PoP etc.  I offtank and I preslow, I run the bst channel, and I know what we can do and so do my guildies.   I'm also an officer and occasional raid leader so please, it's not necessary to try and explain that raids arent based on one person or class.  None of this was relevant to the incorrect info you posted anyway.

Khayden

[Killian22]

Khayd I aint postin this to bash ya so dont think so I agree with most of what you are saying o BST hell this is my long winded ass post that I made one mornin after not sleeping.

Rangers do heal better than us its their druid counterpart in them and they can have it we got better buffs and slow along with pet.

As far as tanking goes Khayd I am about were you are well kinda far behind my guild is fixing to go into VT here soon so I cant speculate on PoP raid mobs beatin up on me cept for the tier one ones. But on rangers tanking better I cant agree with you if my memory serrves me correctly we get a better def cap for one as well as def skills like dodge and riposte as well as block, now I dont know if they heavily raised rangers skills in these areas but last  checked they were still lower I may be wrong (those def skills cant for somthin when added with the same AAs. Now my point to that is this, I was a 1 BL at the time and we were in sky doing some necro epic stuff (fukkin hate that plane btw its as annoying as fear with that damne imp) and there was one oof our rangers tere with us and he is lvl 65 so we are sitten there and deciding whos gonna tank before the war gets there cause he had some stuff to do so we ask each other hps and ac which were almost identical but he had a few more points in each nothin big only 10-20pts in hp and like 5-10 in ac so hes like I will tank I am like cool np I'll slow em and offtank the adds cause we ahd no chanter there at the time. So long story short they go in without me cause I had to go afk and it bein my first time in sky i didnt know what portal I was supposed to go to so I was a little late. Well the ranger dies I come in and take 2 of the mobs down before I go down and I had no healer and he did. Not sayin we are uber tanks cause we arent we are mana sponges just like rangers are but I just wont belive that rangers can out tank me till I see it. And you say equally geared well equally geared in my book just means hps and ac I dont care what kinda gear hes wearin if the ACs and HPs are the same then you are equally geared pretty much not totally though but those are the stats that matter for tanking.

But are BLs the best class out there I think so we got complete self suffiency and I like that for times when I dont feel like grouping.Oh and on the grouping thing people group with people they like not cause of their class that stuff only comes into play on raids so if you havin trouble findin a group its prolly cause your a fuktard or you are just to low of a lvl to be in that zone.

As well havent parsed this with my ew stun yet cause I am only 62 but I did parse my new lvl 62 pet with a mages pet lvl 61 air pet and they was about even with the air pet arely winning is taht cause of the air pets stuns and my pets SoFstun not being able to land or is that just the way its gonna be is that my pet is always gonna be lower than the mages. Will have to parse my pet when I get 63 and have new proc will let ya know

[Urim]

But on rangers tanking better I cant agree with you

Shamelessy stolen from Steelwarrior.org (cut out all other classes because i couldnt get the formatting to look right )

CLS       AC    SHLD AVD   DB      DI      AVG     MIT%   ATKS   HIT% MISS% BLK% DDG% PRY%  RIP% | DMG
RNG   1728    2%    10    100   22.1  292.1  59.5    2359   48.5   43.5     NA      4.2      6.0     4.0    | 141.7
BST   1432    0%    25    102   22.1  320.0  53.3    2119    47.8    41.9   10.2    3.7      NA     4.0    | 153.0


Given comparable gear rangers will ALWAYS outtank beastlords. This table above shows that beastlord take more dmg than rangers, in fact beastlords take more damage than all other classes except for Clerics, shamans and druids and obviously the silk classes. This isn't to say that we suck because like almost everyone on this board i love my bst or else i wouldn't be playing him. This is only to debunk the fallacies being thrown around in a couple of the previous posts regarding our "uber" tanking abilities. Soloing we will do better because we have slow and a stunning pet but in any group/raid situation those dont even matter because they will be there regardless of who is tanking.

As far as slows go, i would much rather have a shaman slow than my own slow because the damage difference is a good deal even on mitigating mobs. Also i don't know what slow spell your using that you aren't seeing the kind of resists that i see making slowing in MPG/RS+ suck so much i dont want to be the person people rely on.

In the low end game beastlords are great (low end = BoTish), slows arent resisted much, our dps is comparable to other classes at same lvl (sometimes a little too high imo) and our tanking ability is pretty good. But as you progress to the high end (high end = Time+) all of this drastically decreases. Slow is bounced more times than it lands, our dps slides way down when compared to other classes of same lvl and while it is possible to tank in these higher zones it just isnt mana efficient to do it and have it be fun for the group for any length of time. (Not saying it is for rangers because it still wouldnt be)

or is that just the way its gonna be is that my pet is always gonna be lower than the mages

Your pet will always be lower than mage pets, in fact much much lower from what i have been able to parse in exp groups. Mage pets are putting out easily 1.5x dps as our pets.

[Khayden]

Feralkin I appreciate what you're saying but as Cop used to remind everyone (including me!) you can't make assumptions based on simple observations, because there are way too many variables and too much data to take into account.  The only way to actually tell the facts is to extensively collect tanking data and parse it, there's alot of this on steelwarrior as Urim linked if you're interested.

The thing about equal gear or equal HP/AC is the ease with which each class gets them.  There are beastlords out there with over 12 or maybe even 13khp.  To get that they have to be right at the end game, whereas a ranger can get that much earlier.  It took me several elemental molds to get to 9k buffed, but the rangers in my guild that raid alot were there already without them and have significantly more AC than me, so I don't think the ranger who has the same hp/ac as me is equally geared, they're probably wearing ldon and droppable stuff.

Khayden

[Latang]

Umm, Swippe and Killian, there is a vast difference between what you think you know about the issues high end beastlords have and what issues high end beastlords have. I have oriented my gear around avoidance and AC, simply cause I have always liked having good ac. With me having over 2100 ac fully buffed, my ranger friend Luvann, who is EP + GoD trial + MPG trial equipped, can tank as well as if not better than me.

Oh for f's sake, it's christmas. At the pointy end of the game, our dps sucks. that is all. I might make my sig say something like that..

Merry Christmas, motherf'ers!

[Killian22]

Oh no guys not sayin  know about end game material cause I dont yet bein as I'm just now fixing to hit VT so I do listen to wha you guys are saying and take it into effect I'm just saying as of right now I dont see how rangers will out tank us being as I out tank them atm (slow being the key factor there, that is what makes us be able to tank imo) but it could very well change later on and I will have to wait till taht time to see it, I understand what you are saying that rangers will tank better because they are a chain class and we are a leather class but when it comes to mitigation I dont quite understand how we take more damage than all other classes except silk classes and maybe shamans because we get more avoidance skills along with our AAs so please explain this to me or is it taht SOE just made it so we take more dmg period prett much the way  they nerfed monks back in the day with their mitigation.

As far as slow goes I see what your saying there I can land slows pretty damne wasy in BoT and what not but when I go to WoS and places like taht my slow gets bounced often which can get pretty annoying so I can imagine how annoying its going to get when I get into MPG and RSS and what not.

As far as DPS between rangers and Bst wonderin what that is going to entell because while I do agree that our DPS starts to slide down a bit I am starting to notice it going up atm but when you go up at some point your gonna come back down ya know so I am watiin on the lvl of game content that its gonna come to me (BLs being a Luclin era class I am guessing we start to slide down GoD and pretty much there after. But back on subject since our pet adds so much to our dmg do rangers still out dps us or are we about even considering that we can keep the pet alive which is pretty hard to do sometimes since one good AE from a higher end mob will drop em pretty fast.

And dont get me wrong I think SoE needs to give us an upgrade to our DPS not from our pet but to our DPS in general and maybe some dmg taking cuse I know I do take alot of dmg just dont see how I tkae more dmg than a ranger yet, but we'll see. I made that assumption once when I played a shaman and got pretty ripped up for it on the shaman boards for talking about stuff I didnt know for a fact so I dont do that anymore lol. Maybe SOE will give us an upgrade soon enough I remember when I used to play a SK on tallon and we were only good at PK cause they gimped us everywere else but then all the sudden we got a HUGE boost when PoP came out and after that I couldnt really say cause I dont play one anymore but they seem to be pretty decent tanks now from what I have seen.