Gorilla/Raven/Asp

Kanan · November 14, 2008, 09:37:42 PM

I've bought asp and am happy with it so far. I can't tell, since I filter all dots to a minimizeed parsing window (have they fixed dot dmg reporting so that you can filter other's separately yet?), if the dot portion can crit (I'm assuming not, like RoT), but it's been a nice, fairly dependable agro dump in grouping (cast slow, drop poison nuke, drop that, and usually then flips back to the tank).

I'm curious of opinion of the other AAs, how effective you are finding them, which one of the three, if you have all 3 already, do you use the most in solo/group/raid situations?

I'm curious how well gorilla dumps agro relative to the others, with the stun agro in it. It is attractive to me from a solo standpoint, to stun the mob and eliminate 2 secs of its dps, if the stun will affect the mob at all.

Raven is attractive to me on raids to do maximization of utility, keeping the mob's attack, as that's become much more effective in last coupla expansions, down as much as we can (I don't break out the time h2h for its attack debuff cuz I'm too lazy and I never wanted nor got the anguish nor tacvi bst only sticks). I don't know if it's actually a parseable effect on a mob.

One last thing I wonder: is the skill attack (41) line actual swings at the mob that do dmg? Or is connecting this "attack" necessary to make the rest of the effects happen?

Eflynn · November 14, 2008, 10:14:13 PM

The DoT on Bite of the Asp is effected by DoT Crit AAs .... nice to see a mana free 1200 tick every now and then

Sushe · November 15, 2008, 12:03:43 AM

It actually crits quite a bit. When I did the beta parsing for it I was getting 2-3 crits per cast (with max aa possible).

Kanan · November 20, 2008, 04:04:32 PM

Really was curious about opinions/feedback on the other 2 abilities.

Wolfcaller · November 20, 2008, 04:23:17 PM

Raven's Claw is rarely resisted. We keep a rotation going on raid bosses to help out the tank. Nice for raiding. Not useful if you're mowing down DB/LBs soloing or grouping.

Frogeater · November 20, 2008, 06:30:37 PM

I use Raven's Claw (mainly because thats the only one I have) every time the button refreshes. I've only had it resist a handful of times since I got the skill. The dump is perfect for getting the tank aggro back and I do see crits on it often. The down side is that for me it only does a few hundred dmg, and at most crits for 400-500. The atk debuff on Raven's Claw and the debuff on bst CoA stick do stack, I have the mace also, though I am not sure how much of a difference it makes when I solo.

Personally I am interested in getting Gorillia smash, but wanna know how effective the stunn is, how often it resists?

Camikazi · November 20, 2008, 06:45:00 PM

All 3 of the AAs are -120 Physical Resist, so all should reissit about the same amount.

Kanan · November 20, 2008, 08:08:37 PM

/sigh.. I think I'm going to have to break down soon & use more than a single hotkey bar, since my first 6 banks are starting to get more than a lil full ;p

Duranolin · November 30, 2008, 07:54:27 PM

Quote from: Wolfcaller on November 20, 2008, 04:23:17 PM
Raven's Claw is rarely resisted. We keep a rotation going on raid bosses to help out the tank. Nice for raiding. Not useful if you're mowing down DB/LBs soloing or grouping.

What he said.

It's important to note that Bite of the Asp will stack with itself as many times as you have beastlords who can cast it, but Raven's Claw will not stack with BoA, OR another Raven's.

Casting BoA when Raven's is on a mob will cancel Raven's and vice versa.

trixbro · September 13, 2009, 05:08:05 PM

Does anyone happen to know if one of these abilities is anymore effective than the others at dumping aggro? I'm wondering if the dot component of asp (if it doesnt crit) is causing 1800 units of aggro, so in essence giving you a net -1200 aggro. And how that would compare to claw. I'm having a hell of a time with aggro on raids sometimes, so any little bit would help.
thanks

Khauruk · September 13, 2009, 05:44:51 PM

A - CRITS DON'T CAUSE ADDITIONAL AGRO!!! NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL, DOESN'T HAPPEN. The caps aren't directed at you specifically, but that issue gets brought up almost daily with this game in bstchannel also.

This is mostly guess, but the rankings should be close at least.

Asp: -3,000 hate, 600hp DoT x 4 ticks = -600 hate per minute.
Claw: -3,000 hate + skill attack (41), unknown value for the debuff (they are probably similar to stun though).
Smash: -3,000 hate + skill attack (41), 2 second stun. Stun is 400 hate, though there is some debate as to it being more hate on boss mobs (high HPs have been said to factor in with stun).

So, Asp is a known total of 600 deagro per minute. (though -2400 when you hit it)
Claw and Smash will be similar in deagro, at a higher value. I think the skill attack will generate only 41 points of hate, but I'm not 100% on that.

My main problem has been when my agro spikes up from a nuke, and all three of them should give you similar initial deagro values. Asp will close some of that gap over the next 24 seconds though.

Camikazi · September 13, 2009, 06:25:32 PM

I'm pretty sure they can hard code a certain aggro amount to an ability (just not sure if it can be a deaggro) but if they can do hard coded deaggro, we should try and have them do that for the Strikes, so they will be a real 3k deaggro instead of 600 (which is very small) after the effects wear off.

Khauruk · September 13, 2009, 06:38:24 PM

Quote from: Camikazi on September 13, 2009, 06:25:32 PM
I'm pretty sure they can hard code a certain aggro amount to an ability (just not sure if it can be a deaggro) but if they can do hard coded deaggro, we should try and have them do that for the Strikes, so they will be a real 3k deaggro instead of 600 (which is very small) after the effects wear off.

They can do both, within limits.

This is Gorilla Smash:
Slot    Description
1:    Stun (2.00 sec/85)
2:    Skill Attack (41)
6:    Decrease Hate by 3000

Enraging Blow:
Slot    Description
1:    Increase Hate by 700

So, agro and deagro can take the form of spell slots.

There is also a hateamount in the raw data for spells.
Foray:
Slot    Description
1:    Skill Attack (134)
2:    Skill Attack (134)
3:    Skill Attack (134)
hateamount    681

There is a bonushate field as well, but I'm not sure what, if anything uses it.

So, they can deagro from a spell slot, and can add agro through 3 different mechanisms.
Some things they can't reduce agro on, like the stuns, unless they add that in a different spell slot (current stuns have much agro added through the Hateamount field, like pally Force of the Crying Seas adding almost 3k hate in there)

Camikazi · September 13, 2009, 11:24:03 PM

I know it can be done through spell slots, but that can be canceled out by other mods on the spells (like the strikes) the hateamount field overrides the hate from the mods of the spells so that only that amount of hate is added, but I've never seen it do negative hate, which is what I was wondering. If hateamount can do negative, that is what we should get devs to make the deaggro on strikes so it really drops the full amount.

Edit... ok checked Lucy and for discs atleast, hateamount can be negative aggro, it's what is used on the Ranger Jolting Kicks line, so it should work the same for AAs.

Khauruk · September 14, 2009, 12:03:20 AM

Hmm...good info. Thanks, I hadn't heard that hateamt overrides all hate sources.