Proposed changes to new AAs on test (that's right, already)

[Umlat]

Shorter lists, better explanations. - Believe it or not, I agree. The problem is we get little or no feedback for our feedback. While I haven't run out of ideas, I've gotten through the bulk of what was lying around in my brain. The main point of a possible path to change was two-fold, sadly it seems to have failed at both goals :

1) To give a comprehensive, unified starting point where the beastlord community could point back to a single source and post in a single place what they saw as their preferred steps on that path, in a semi-prioritized order. Take the top 10 say, and have the Community Leader we deal with take that list to the devs. The devs would then yay/nay/maybe later the list and add one or more yay items to the list to fill it out if necessary (because they can do something with code they couldn't before, they have a cool idea they're willing to give us if we want it, our top 10 had only 2 yays on the list, ideas from feedback that didn't come here, etc.). Our Community Leader liason brings that annotated list back. Nays go to the don't ask for list, maybe laters go to the future proposal list and the yays get a thread with instructions - you can have (for example) 3 of the 5 on the yay list. We can then work from that list and get some sort of consensus/majority opinion on that smaller known to be possible list. Failure point -- (and this may come across wrong, but it is not meant as a slight to anyone except me) I assumed people would be willing to read and critique the material in a positive manner and begin pulling the list of more critical/desired material.


2) To provide the devs with a pool of material that highlighted some of what needs to be fixed, a philosophical viewpoint on the beastlord class to try and add some "depth" to it and explain/tie together existing material and to give them ideas to revitalize the class, which given the number of new pet heal/additional damage proc variations instead of more original material, decreasing number of spells and the gradual diminishing role beastlords have been experiencing in raid/group settings is something I saw as being needed. Any submission or pointing to of this material included mention of a need for  two way dialogue since this seemed to be an underlying cause of the current state of things. Fail point -- I assumed that I would see a response of some kind, even if it was as simple as "Got it, thanks. Will look at it." or a polite version of "Shut up and go away." Given the total lack of response, I figured that it had gotten tossed in the "round file", made a pro forma attempt to bring the more revised, codified version to their attention, assuming (rightly) that no response would be forthcoming and left it at that.

At this point, I guess my initial assessment of what would happen was correct in that it was better to just look/lurk and not get involved and focus on playing, as I knew that I would have volumes to say if I got involved in the "political" side of things. Given what I was seeing in terms of where the game was going, I felt that I needed to at least try to keep  the game enjoyable enough for me to justify continue paying/playing. I've made the attempt and now it's time to wait and see what happens. I suspect that nothing has or will change though, but I am pessimistic by nature.

[Sharrien]

The problem is we get little or no feedback for our feedback.

In the past I've seen at least acknowledgement of PMs to devs, but for the last few months nothing at all.  Seven feedback PMs sent since Jan 1 for various beast or mage issues and all I got back was one from Elidroth saying he was busy with raid testing.

I don't know if there is more two-way communication on the CL forum, but I do think it is really hurting us not having a rep who plays a beast as a main.

[Hzath]

Same issue here Sharrien.  Rytan responded to my pm from early March saying he got it, but he was busy and would get to it in 1-2 weeks.  2 1/2 weeks later I pm'd him asking if he had made any headway, he never got back to that one and I haven't seen any appreciable changes so I'll assume nothing is being done until I see evidence otherwise.

[Sikkem]

You forgot to add the issue that beastlords love shooting themselves in the foot.

Rangers got their new spell changed from 10% success rate to 100% success rate so I post asking for the possum to go to 100% (thinking hey that would be to much but we might get to 80% out of it) and another beastlord comes and posts that that would be to powerful on a 30 sec recast time so if your thinking about it make sure you increase the re use timer on it.

Here is a hint, the Devs know how to not make an ability overpowered for beastlords (they have trouble it seems making an ability we would use) and if they miss something you can be sure one of the other classes will be more than happy to point it out to them.

Why are we the only class that asks the devs to nerf ourselves?

[Awakening]

Seen your post on the forums BA has always allowed me too move freely while using.

[Camikazi]

Seen your post on the forums BA has always allowed me too move freely while using.

Well Iksar warders freeze when proccing, maybe BA doing same for Iksar Beastlords using it, I don't know many Iksar Bsts so no clue.

[kharthai]

You forgot to add the issue that beastlords love shooting themselves in the foot.

Rangers got their new spell changed from 10% success rate to 100% success rate so I post asking for the possum to go to 100% (thinking hey that would be to much but we might get to 80% out of it) and another beastlord comes and posts that that would be to powerful on a 30 sec recast time so if your thinking about it make sure you increase the re use timer on it.

Here is a hint, the Devs know how to not make an ability overpowered for beastlords (they have trouble it seems making an ability we would use) and if they miss something you can be sure one of the other classes will be more than happy to point it out to them.

Why are we the only class that asks the devs to nerf ourselves?

Well if you don't think a 100% fd on a 30 sec reuse is a bit too powerful, /shrug, I don't know what to tell you.  Just seems more realistic to try and get something closer to a reliable escape tool, rather than a pulling tool.

BA for iksar definitely freezes you graphically, but I've never noticed it "rooting" me in place or anything.

Edit:suck at spelling definitely

[Sikkem]

Seen your post on the forums BA has always allowed me too move freely while using.

Foot meet gun

[Camikazi]

You forgot to add the issue that beastlords love shooting themselves in the foot.

Rangers got their new spell changed from 10% success rate to 100% success rate so I post asking for the possum to go to 100% (thinking hey that would be to much but we might get to 80% out of it) and another beastlord comes and posts that that would be to powerful on a 30 sec recast time so if your thinking about it make sure you increase the re use timer on it.

Here is a hint, the Devs know how to not make an ability overpowered for beastlords (they have trouble it seems making an ability we would use) and if they miss something you can be sure one of the other classes will be more than happy to point it out to them.

Why are we the only class that asks the devs to nerf ourselves?

I agree with Sikkem, posting against each other on public EQ fourms is not exactly a great idea. Devs have already stated before that the split between the community is the reason some things have not gone in for us before, showing them proof with in fighting on those forums does not help at all. If any arguments go on it should be here, where we can figure out a way to present things well and mostly agree before going on EQ forums.

I also believe that a 100% working (or close) FD on that timer won't be overpowering, since even at that timer we won't be able to pull much of anything at all, and without the AA that keeps spells from breaking FD any caster will mean you are dead. It would primarily allow us to drop aggro more reliably, like pretty much every class can do now. Now that said I would rather have a jolt similar to Rangers Jolting Kicks line instead of FD, but would not turn FD down if they won't add in the jolt.

[Sikkem]

You forgot to add the issue that beastlords love shooting themselves in the foot.

Rangers got their new spell changed from 10% success rate to 100% success rate so I post asking for the possum to go to 100% (thinking hey that would be to much but we might get to 80% out of it) and another beastlord comes and posts that that would be to powerful on a 30 sec recast time so if your thinking about it make sure you increase the re use timer on it.

Here is a hint, the Devs know how to not make an ability overpowered for beastlords (they have trouble it seems making an ability we would use) and if they miss something you can be sure one of the other classes will be more than happy to point it out to them.

Why are we the only class that asks the devs to nerf ourselves?

Well if you don't think a 100% fd on a 30 sec reuse is a bit too powerful, /shrug, I don't know what to tell you.  Just seems more realistic to try and get something closer to a reliable escape tool, rather than a pulling tool.

BA for iksar definitively freezes you graphically, but I've never noticed it "rooting" me in place or anything.

Okay t isn't that I think its overpowered or not, its what the devs think that counts.  For the record I do think it would be overpowered, hell I don't even want FD. I want a reliable jolt but I keep getting told that makes me lazy and all I want is an easy button.

We have been trying to get a reliable way to drop aggro for about 6 years and asking for what we think is realistic for longer. Look where that has got us.

Maybe its time we asked for stuff we think is over the top and the devs will give us a scaled back version that is actually what we want. You think asking for a jump from a 10% success rate to a 100% success rate is realistic? They got it.

In the long run it isn't about what I want for the class, it's about trying to get something for the class that is useful and hopefully gives us some direction to try and have the class head in.


I froze in BA last night, mob got pushed I was getting oor messages and couldn't move till I unfroze. Lost dps.

[Umlat]

I wouldn't put it past some of the forum trolls to have bst personas to help us point and aim. Dunno if it's possible in this case and I can't be bothered to look.

[Dragonfangs]

You forgot to add the issue that beastlords love shooting themselves in the foot.

Rangers got their new spell changed from 10% success rate to 100% success rate so I post asking for the possum to go to 100% (thinking hey that would be to much but we might get to 80% out of it) and another beastlord comes and posts that that would be to powerful on a 30 sec recast time so if your thinking about it make sure you increase the re use timer on it.

Here is a hint, the Devs know how to not make an ability overpowered for beastlords (they have trouble it seems making an ability we would use) and if they miss something you can be sure one of the other classes will be more than happy to point it out to them.

Why are we the only class that asks the devs to nerf ourselves?

Well if you don't think a 100% fd on a 30 sec reuse is a bit too powerful, /shrug, I don't know what to tell you.  Just seems more realistic to try and get something closer to a reliable escape tool, rather than a pulling tool.

BA for iksar definitely freezes you graphically, but I've never noticed it "rooting" me in place or anything.

Edit:suck at spelling definitely

I have never had an issue with the BA graphic freezing costing me dps. But i am constantly strifing because the guild sucks at push so it might not have a chance to lock me in place either.
The biggest problem i have is EF getting blocked and canceled out by the test of blood proc, i think thats the cause atleast, while soloing/grouping. Thats far more annoying then the BA graphic freeze

[kharthai]

Using BA in raids tonight, I still didn't notice any problems moving around.

Point taken on the aim for the stars and get a decent compromise stuff, but the ranger comparison isn't all that great.  It's a spell that affects one mob, designed (presumably) to help them pull now that HA is gimped.

[Sikkem]

The biggest problem i have is EF getting blocked and canceled out by the test of blood proc, i think thats the cause atleast, while soloing/grouping. Thats far more annoying then the BA graphic freeze

One of the few benefits of being slow at getting AA's. The utter crappiness of taste of blood was well know before I even thought about getting it  :lol:

I do remember asking about someone about putting that in the borked aa thread though and no one seemed to think it was worth even trying to get it fixed.

[Sikkem]

Point taken on the aim for the stars and get a decent compromise stuff, but the ranger comparison isn't all that great.  It's a spell that affects one mob, designed (presumably) to help them pull now that HA is gimped.

They had a 10% success rate we have a 60% success rate
They ask for theirs to be bumped up and it gets bumped to 100% success rate, we ask and other beastlords complain that would make it to powerful.
I think it makes the point quite clearly on what we are doing wrong at least in one part.

Six years we have been trying to get decent jolt, partly I am sure because the party line has always been lets get it fixed outside of beta when they have more time. Well heads up they very rarely fix things out of beta and when they do its mostly a cock up anyway. See Friendly Pet and even Jaws, 2 years and finally fixed, is it any better than when it was busted?

Get things fixed in beta.