General Pet Information

[Grymlok]

(This is something that I posted in regards to a series of questions on pets I recieved.  I figured it would be handy here as well.)

There are really 3 main "types" of pets. Summoned, charmed, and fire-n-forget.

Summoned pet is your typical bst warder mag elemental, nec skelly/lich. They obey their master's commands (with the right skill and/or AAs), and are really the safest pets.

Charmed pets are controlled similarly to summoned pets, with the exception that the charm classes do not get the /pet hold AA, which is the best way to control pets. So AEs, adds, and random aggro can cause issues with charmed pets. Added to that is the chance of charm breaking and the super-buffed ex-pet mauling people. Charmed pets are a very powerful tool when used properly, and while being mindful of the drawbacks.

Finally, there are fire-n-forget pets, such as shaman/wiz/mage swarm pets, cleric hammers, and pets procced from weapons. These pets have a set duration, and generally will only attack the target they were summoned/procced against. These pets are completely uncontrollable. The only way to get rid of them is to invis yourself, or wait for their (usually short) duration to expire. These pets can create problems with directional push, as there is no way to reposition them; they follow their target.

What pet AAs are there that alter behavior? What does hold do exactly and how is it used?
How does pet behavior differ between classes?

There are 2 AAs used to control pets. The primary one is Pet Discipline, also known as /pet hold. This command makes a pet completely nonaggro, and locks its aggro list. What does that mean? If the pet has taken a beating from a particular mob, and it gets directed at some other target, the pet is likely to return to the mob that had the most aggro on the pet, just like a mob would do. For this reason, I have /pet hold, and then /pet back off in one hotkey. This first command locks the pet down, and the second one clears its aggro list completely. Even if a pet is attacked while under /pet hold, it will not attack back, nor will the attacking mob be on the pet's aggro list.

The second AA used to control pets is Suspend Minion. What suspend minion does is let you summon a pet and fully buff it, and then "put it in your pocket" for later. The pet gets unsummoned, but can be resummoned quickly with the same buffs/equipment it had. This AA allows pet classes to summon a pet, suspend it, and then invis themselves to move without killing the pet. I also use it in potentially dangerous situations to have a "back up pet" in case something goes wrong. For example, on water raids, I summon my pet, buff it up, and suspend it. I would bring out the pet in an emergency situation, such as a raid beginning to wipe, for extra dps/mob aggro control (will get to that later).

Pets and their perception on raids

PET PUSH
Lets get this one out of the way first, as it is the most discussed. Pets push no more than a dual-wielding melee class, often less. That is the simple truth. When soloing, my pet is in the rogue position on a mob's back, and I outpush my pet. Push is caused by attacks/spells landing on mobs, moving them slightly. The lower delay, the more often attacks land, and more push is generated. Most pets have no where near the same delay of the weapons we currently wield.

The perception of pets outpushing melee comes from the way pets follow a mob. A pet will always follow the shortest path to stay on a mob it was told to attack. So, if raid push is imbalanced, and the mob moves around, all the pets wind up on one side of the mobs, which doesn't help the situation any.

PET CONTROL
This only applies to normal summoned pets, but if you do not have /pet hold, imo you should not summon a pet on a raid. There is quite frankly too much going on at once in most raids, and it is very easy for a pet to get lost in the crowd. /Pet hold is guaranteed control.

PET POSITIONING
It is the responsibility of the pet class to understand how their pet works, and to reposition their pets as needed when push dictates. This is much easier for Beastlords, as they are in the thick of the melee, and can easily reposition their pet around the current target. For Mages, Necros, and in the case of charmed pets (dru/enc), it requires them to move around more than they normally would on a raid. But, if you are too lazy to reposition your pet, do not use a pet.

PET AGGRO
(Part 1)
For all the old-school people, who remember pets causing aggro and training raids: pets no longer aggro on mobs/are aggroed on by mobs unless told to attack, their master is attacked, or they are AEd upon. Again, that is only applicable without /pet hold. A pet will get beat upon until it dies, and not attack once, if /pet hold is used.

(Part 2)
Pets and how mobs interact with them is very strange. Even if a pet is on the top of a mob's hate list, the pet WILL NOT be attacked if the pet and a PC that is on the mob's hate list is in melee range. This can be benificial in many ways. In the case of beastlord pets, they proc a 2.5 second stun/150dd/+50 hate effect. This creates lots of aggro, very quickly. Also, pets can taunt. In many situations, this makes the pet be higher on a mob's hate list than the MT.

How does that help?

First off, this can help the MTs aggro. The pet never stops creating aggro, and an early series of procs creates a LOT of aggro that the MT can taunt off to create an early aggro buffer. Also, spamming taunt during the fight keeps the MT and the pet leapfrogging each other in aggro. Additionally, in a case when the MT dies, pet aggro is often sufficient enough to keep the mob from rushing the healers/nukers. The mob will instead turn on the melee in range with the highest aggro.

How can this hurt?

This does not happen very often, but pet aggro can sometime be an issue when trying to reposition a mob. When all melees leave the melee range of a mob (such as when the MT is trying to drag it to a new position), sometimes a pet will get summoned. This is a fairly rare circumstance, as it requires everyone to be outside of the mob's melee range. But, this can still happen and cause some disruption until the MT gains more aggro than the pet.

PETS IN WATER
Pets should not be used in water unless you need all the dps you can possibly crank out. Such as during slow wipes and certain encounters. Push and mob positioning are always an issue in water, and water is the ONE place where pets will often outpush melees, simply due to the fact they can reposition themselves almost immediately to a mob's movements. Melees have enough issues in water without having to deal with constant pet push. Also, repositioning pets in water is nigh impossible to due pathing and the way mobs move in water.


Any questions I missed, or any comments? I'd be happy to address them.

[NoxCruor]

Just one question:

Can you go more in depth on pet positioning?  When it's used, how it's used, specifically what all you do and why?  A couple of examples would be great.

I've never raided on my necro (only raided as my cleric), and my BST isn't high enough in level to raid yet.

That said, from what I gather with this, if the pet is attacking in the front, you want to /pet back off or /pet hold, have it follow you to the rear of the mob then do a /pet attack again so that it starts biting into it's arse?  I assume that this tactic is used so that the pet won't recieve damage from things like riposte, and it will give the MT the ability to keep agro on him if he sees the mob turn around to attack all the others behind him?

Do you want to use this tactic while in normal groups, even if it is just practice?

[Grymlok]

There are two main reasons to reposition your pet.

1) To help balance out the melee push on raids, so mobs aren't pushed up walls or into other unsavory places.

2) To position your pet on the rear of a mob, to maximize its dps.

1 > 2

In raids, stable mob placement is extremely important, so mobs (and the MT) don't get pushed OOR of the cheal rotation.  During raids, I only move my pet to help with push.  Rogues are the ones who need to worry about being on the back of the mob.

However, during xp groups, melee push is generally fairly mimimal, and positioning your pet on the back of a mob will help with dps, and thus kill rate.

[Misser]

Giving due credit I plan to copy this post to our guild board  :twisted:

[Warrl]

thank you Grymlok I also posted this to my guild and gave the credit where it is due. Again thank you for a very informative post on the pets.

[NoxCruor]

Admins...stickyness on this thread?

[Hrann]

Thanks for the extremely useful post.  However, there is one part that is incorrect and I'd rather this remain unstickied until it is corrected.

The primary one is Pet Discipline, also known as /pet hold. This command makes a pet completely nonaggro, and locks its aggro list.

/pet hold does not lock a pet's aggro list.  If you /pet hold and /pet back off, the pet's aggro list will be wiped, but if the pet continues to be attacked it will have hate for the attacker.
Also, saying that it makes the pet nonaggro is unclear.  All pets are non aggro in the sense that mobs will never aggro on any pet that is not engaged with another mob.
What /pet hold really does is make the pet ignore everything except other commands given by the master - no more, no less (with the one noted exception about its hate list).  Usually, saying /pet hold makes the pet ignore attacks on it is enough to explain.

[Grymlok]

Actually, I believe you are incorrect.  If /hold hold did not lock the aggro list down, then your pet should attack anything that AEd it while it was on hold, as opposed to the target you sent it at.  I do not have any problems in those sorts of environments (such as certain mobs/parts of Plane of Air), so I believe you are mistaken.

As as far as nonaggro, it means what you said.  It will ignore anything done to it.  It will not "aggro" on anything while under /hold.  Telling pet to attack takes pet off hold, so if its aggro was not cleared (via /pet back off) it will return to whatever target had aggroed it the most previously (assuming it is not already dead), often even if you tell it to attack a different target.  That is the whole purpose of including /pet back off immediately after hold.  To lock the aggro list, and then to clear it.

Edit:
Copied from "All you need to know about: Pet Commands and Experience" at the top of this forum

Command: /pet hold
Effect: causes the pet to be Held, i.e. it ignores its Hate List and goes into Free mode, resuming its regular movement (either follow, guard, or sit).
Detail: this command does not clear the pets hate list, the pet will remain "held" until you give it an attack command at which time it will attempt to attack the target at the top of its hate list. It is recommended you add the following line after /pet hold in a macro: /pet back off to ensure your pets hate list is clear. A pets hate list is frozen while it is "held", which means it does not add anyone or MOB to its hate list even if attacked.
Special Note: the command is only available to level 59 or higher Beastlords who have obtained the beastlord class AA skill Pet Discipline at a cost of 6 AA points. Beastlords must also have spent 6 AA in General abilities and 12 AA in Archetype abilities to gain access to this AA.

(emphasis bold added by me)

[Hrann]

I have had exactly this problem, which is why I pointed it out.  Letting my pet be hit by an add, then trying to sic him on something else never works as the pet always goes to the thing that had been hitting it.  That post at the top of the forum is probably wrong also.

Man I need to do some pet tesitng to verify that nothing has changed.  Tastian, where are you? hehe

Oh, and what I meant by nonaggro being confusing is that some may think that you are saying that hitting pet hold makes the pet nonaggro to mobs, which is actually always the case (which you mention further down).