... and when you were there, everyone told you to stfu and go home because they had worse problems (broken bones, head wounds, whatever).
That's how I feel when I read class boards sometimes, even ours. I don't understand why people are so quick to say, "beastlords are pretty balanced, other classes need more work" whenever someone suggests a change or an improvement. It's like the doctor saying that I shouldn't even *tell* her that my stomach hurts because I'm not as sick as someone else.
Just because we say something needs work doesn't mean that we are saying that it is more important than other issues, or that beastlords are totally unbalanced, or that other classes don't need their own improvements. We are just voicing our concerns as to things that could use some work.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
well, if you went to the ER with a stomach ache.... :)
Gald you still have "Clobberin' Time" after so long tho@
I am not sure your post makes much sense. Using the example of a doctor-patient is not a similar situation. Our discussions here are among players... there is no one here that can actually fix the things we talk about (a doctor). When other people here say we are balanced, it's like another patient talking to you, NOT the doctor...
Why is the opinion of a player who thinks everything is broken more important than the opinion of a player who thinks everything is fine? If we all agreed on the exact same opinions, we wouldn't really be having discussions, would we? :)
A) Ask your shadowknight pals (high end) how many GoD pick up groups they get, or how many groups period. Yes, we have a few problems but not nearly as many as others. Tryin to use your example here, if 2 patients walk in to a hospital, one with a gaping headwound, and one with an achy belly which do you think will get treated first?
B) Pet zoning and shrink fix changes are on test according to posts here. They are slowly fixing us. :D Knight class balance on the other hand is well...
C) Think you should have posted this in the rant section.
My beef isn't with people who say we are balanced or who genuinely believe that there are zero things that need improvement. Those are opinions, and everyone is entitled to one.
My beef is with the people who say, "dude, you have no business saying that your weapon caps should be raised because shamans have it so much worse than you do," or "wth are you asking for faster pet heals when mages are so broke."
My pointing out my opinion of what needs work isn't the same as saying that other classes don't need work. It's not even like I'm saying I'm not balanced. I'm also not the one who prioritizes problems.
In my example, the devs are the "doctors" and all the other classes are "patients". When you go to the doctor, you write down what your problem is and the doctor decides whether he sees you before the guy with the snake bite or whatever else.
But if I go to the doctor, I don't want the other patients telling me that I *shouldn't even be allowed to tell the doctor what is bothering me*, which is what some posts basically do.
I mean, do I have to wait until shamans are totally balanced before I ever say anything to SOE about what I think beastlords should get, or can I at least tell them what my issues are and let the devs decide whether they want to work on them?
If you went to the doctor with a stomachache and were given an emergency appendectomy because you insisted something had to be done (when all that was wrong was you'd had a bad day) you (and the person behind you in line with the more serious problem who had to wait a few hours) might be a tad worse off.
Similarly, when people propose across-the-board changes to a class that only has minor problems in certain specific areas, the repercussions of taking those proposals seriously are something to think about - particularly when they would take dev time away from the problems we actually have.
I don't think "we're pretty balanced already" is an unreasonable response in a discussion of class problems. For one thing, it might lead to you pointing out that we're not balanced in certain areas...
Bengali,
It's all about the money. Even in the medical field, its about the money. I promise you people with money are going to get better attention/care than the patient with little money (or even no insurance). That's jsut how America works. It's a capitalistic society. SoE is trying to salvage some of the revenue it is losing, and personally if I were in their shoes I would be doing some of the same things they are doing at this point (although I think I would have taken a long, hard look before that point). I understand the point you are trying to make, but it's a little skewed.
"You're pretty balanced" isn't an answer to anything though.
If I go to the doctor and he says, "you're pretty healthy" does that mean I don't have a stomachache anymore? The point is that I never said I was unhealthy -- I said my stomach hurt and asked the doc if he had anything to help me with it. Obviously I understand if he has to perform an emergency procedure on someone with a bigger problem. The thing is, the *simple fact of my asking* is interpreted by some people as a statement that I think I should get what I want at their expense.
To use an EQ example, we have still been "balanced" even though some of us can't shrink our pets like we used to. Therefore by some people's logic we had no right to even ask the devs to fix it.
What I'm saying is that simply saying "this could use some work" is NOT the same as saying, "this needs to take precedence over everyone else's issues" or "this is absolutely necessary because beastlords are totally imbalanced" or "this makes the game totally unfun."
They're just suggestions, and I really don't see why people get so worked up over them, and I really don't think anyone should come here and tell me not to even mention them.
It would be one thing if I said, "instead of fixing shamans, SOE should raise beastlord weapon caps." Then it would make sense for someone to say, "Ben, sorry, but you're pretty balanced and you don't need that change more than shamans need fixing." My point is that I never say anything close to that but some people act like that's what I'm saying, and it irks me because otherwise valid discussions get derailed.
FIVE WORDS:
"They are full of shit"
Thats all you have to remember about these people that give you responses like that.
Quote from: Bengali
dude, you have no business saying that
Well, I'm not sure where anyone has said anything like that; I think it's worth bearing in mind that people who don't agree are allowed to say they don't agree. Wrong to say that you are not allowed to forward your opinion however.
I believe Bengali is referring to the SOE class boards. I've seen precisely what he's talking about. Over on the SOE Beastlord class boards, Beastlords would discuss of all things, concerns and issues that Beastlords have. All the while, most discussions would be fairly open and constructive, not ridiculous, rude or demeaning and then some other class would butt in and say things like..."hey! you have no right to complain about such and such!! You should be happy that you don't have to deal with problem X that MY class has to endure...." or "You should just shut up and be happy, you Beastlords are so over powered as it is..."
And that format would repeat itself with Beastlords trying to respond to the flames as reasonable as possible. The hostility gets old. I believe that's all Bengali is pointing out.
Aye, what Skratchen said I agree with also.
I've read some of the class boards over and after a bit of reading you always get one class that comes in and starts something. I dont know if you want to call it trolling or what.
Whats funny is, some is also done by the same person if you look also.
Be nice if you could /ignore in RL like you can in EQ. :twisted:
It's no offense to the SoE boards, but they really do make you appreciate these. I've gone through and read almost every post there to catch up at this point and you have a lot of sniping and cross class envy with no backing up. I read a couple posts where the person argued an issue I agree with, but his reasons were totally wrong and unjustified. I also personally loved the person who used their first post to insult me *shrugs* and people wonder why I plan to continue using these boards just as much as I have been well still using the SoE boards.
I can see your point Bengali and I kind of agree. Besides voicing your opinion about the Beastlord class (even if it's small and not very important fix) just might help devs fix things.
1) Seeing a small Beastlord problem might help them figure out a BIG mage problem.
2) While fixing a BIG Necro problem it might be easy to just add a few lines of code to fix a small Beastlord problem.
You just never know. So I say just keep posting and let the crybabies whine all they like. Just wear some thick skin and ignore the children. :D
And also if someone in the doctors office told me I shouldn't even bother the doctor with my problems I would suggest the doctor take them 1st for their broken neck. :P
Quote from: SkratchenI believe Bengali is referring to the SOE class boards.
Oh.
Well, duh!
What did you expect there? Informed debate? :roll:
Sorry, but I remember the old SoE boards ... what a cess pit of idiocy.
Yeah, I'm mostly talking about other class boards and such. The threads where SOE actually *asks* to list our concerns (big or small, they just asked us to say what we were interested in) that end up being mega-derailed because of cross-linking and massive overreacting are annoying. Sometimes people come here and do the same thing, but it's not nearly as frequent.
I was just venting a little bit. :)
This post is not exactly a 'rant' but it does fall along them lines. Im moving it there.
Please dont be offended.
Oh. Uhh, yeah - the SOE class boards are a snakepit. Unfortunately, you're not going to get too many rational responses to suggestions there.
No offense taken. I almost suggested moving it there myself. :)
I rarely post to the SOE boards namely because the signal to noise ratio is abysmaly low. But when I want a good laugth I read some of the class balance request from other classes. I found the Shaman and Druid request or Rez spells particularly absurd.
If I wanted a real conversation related to shaman's affairs I'd go to Interealms.
I don't go there much, but Ashlanne asked for feedback on bst issues so I wanted to post something. Then people come out of the woodwork to tell me I am out of my mind for posting because beastlords are the most balanced class in the game and are more powerful than shamans and shamans are quitting so they need more attention blahblahblah.
I kinda see your point. Often I see people say, we are pretty well off.. lets not ask for more because we might get nerfed. Or, we dont want to ask for that and get the mages all mad and screaming for nerfs on us.
I worry that the opposite will happen - we dont complain(while every other class does) and so we are more likely to get nerfed.
The best situation is most likely to be in the middle with our content as a class, instead of one extreme or the other.
The SOE boards are too full of idiots plain and simple.
Heh, your anaolgy is lost on me. if I have a stomachache, I either eat something or chug some pepto, boom, fixes me right up.
I have a $217 bill for a doctor to take 15 minutes to poke my arm and tell me I have tendonitis, I sure as hell don't have that money to toss around over indigestion
Quote from: JunaruAnd also if someone in the doctors office told me I shouldn't even bother the doctor with my problems I would suggest the doctor take them 1st for their broken neck. :P
ok, that was funny.
QuoteA) Ask your shadowknight pals (high end) how many GoD pick up groups they get, or how many groups period. Yes, we have a few problems but not nearly as many as others.
This makes no sense seeing as though GoD was developed for level 70, time geared players. If an SK was level 70 with time gear, he could tank just fine in GoD. But since we are where we are, we are forced to only suffice with the warriors, due to their higher HPs, defensive AAs, and combat abilities.
Quote from: The KittenpeelerHeh, your anaolgy is lost on me. if I have a stomachache, I either eat something or chug some pepto, boom, fixes me right up.
I have a $217 bill for a doctor to take 15 minutes to poke my arm and tell me I have tendonitis, I sure as hell don't have that money to toss around over indigestion
Heh, I've had achilles tendonitis. I'd rather pay the money and get some advice, then do nothing and endure the pain.
...and no edit button. Same thing goes for stress fractures. And I've also had tendonitis on the fingers of my left hand. Man, the bill is so worth it, given the alternative.