Waist or Back for Haste?

[Aggy]

OK, OK...I know a lot about equipment and game mechanics (having played a couple of melee characters to 65, with almost 5 years of EQ experience), but I am focusing all of my energy on my BeastLord now...and I am looking for input as to which haste is more useful for the BL.  I currently have two haste items in my possession: Cloak of Flames and Broken Drivebelt.


CoF:
AC: 10
DEX:+9 AGI:+9 HP:+50 SV FIRE:+15


BD:
AC: 10
STR:+10 STA:+5 WIS:+5 INT:+5 HP:+30 MANA:+30 SV POISON:+10

The biggest considerations (IMHO ;) ) are the haste diference (36% for the CoF and 34% for the BD), and the gear that you can wear in that particular slot if you don't need to wear haste there: Cloak of Greater Pernicy or Lodi Shield work well for the back slot if I use the haste belt (BD).  If I wear haste on my back I can go with decent HP/AC on my belt (Shai'Din Assassin's Belt: AC: 12 DEX:+20 AGI:+10 HP:+40 MANA:+30 SV POISON:+10), or go with a Belt of the Great Turtle for the ATK/Regen (AC: 6 STR:+10 DEX:+10 HP:+30 Effect: Aura of Battle).

FYI: I am level 48 at the moment (and climbing relatively quickly for a pretty casual player ;) ).  I spend my time about 50:50 with grouping and soloing...leaning more towards grouping recently with all of the fun I am having in LDoN).  When I solo I pretty much tank all the time.

Thoughts??

[larzzus]

Why not go for an LDoN haste item like the 1150 point one?

I didn't realise before today that there were haste augments (usually type all) available that provide haste.  Even the 100 point haste item is 21%, approx. 1% less than SCHW that I have been wearing all this time.

I intend to save for the 36% haste aug now and put it in my ax belt.

Larzzus

[Noxdowne Draggout]

I had a CoCW and an Axe belt before I got lucky on some EP drops.

I still believe that is an awesome combo.

I though the best way to figure out was to add the best combo you can think of each way and add all of the stats together.

Once you end up with a grand total of each combo look at only that total of stats and haste and imagine it was one item.

If they were all combined into one item which one would you wear?

Nox

[Beaneater]

Please anyone correct me if I am wrong because I am but a young beastlord myself.

I personally like to use Spiked Seahorse Hide Belt.  It has good stats and 34% (I think) haste.  Then for back I use Cloak of Greater Pernicity because it has great strength and good stamina.  It seems that Beastlords have several important stats (Sta, Wis, Str, Dex) that anything that can raise those by 10+ at a time is a definite benefit.

[Hrann]

I know 2% is not that much, but I'd have a hard time using 34% when I have 36% haste available to me.  The stats on the CoF are not so terrible - I use the CoCW and have pretty much just written off that slot as existing (unless I get a 41% haste item drop someday).

[chuteshock]

Nox hit the mail on the head. The best thing to do is get a couple co mbos in mind and compare the stats to see what is the best way to go. The other way to do it is to go with the stats are you are lacking the most and that is the item to wear.

Personally I would go with the broken drive belt and the lodi shield combo or even get a chinse cape of the werewolf for your back slot. You pick up more wisdom and mana and the overall HP gain fromt hat combo is nice too.

[Atropine_BB]

After being in almost the exact same position as you and researching possible droppable and no-drop waist slot items, the BD is the best waist slot you can use, especially because you are using it for haste.

It has everything a beastlord would want... str, sta, wis and most importantly raw hp/mana.

There really isn't much out there that is droppable or attainable by a 48 BST that is better.  The only thing I've found is the runed sash of fury (same exact stats, no haste but +10 extra hps).  I'm going to be camping that belt for the hp upgrade to my BD as I already got my hands on a 41% haste item for my neck slot.

Other than that, I wouldn't trade the raw hp/mana and wis on your belt for a CoF on your back.  There are SO many more viable upgrades to your back slot, that I wouldn't ever consider taking probably the best droppable waist slot item (BD) and using something else.

Funny thing... your gear looks almost exactly like mine when I was lvl 48.  8)   Good luck!

[larzzus]

Doh! I'm mistaken on the ldon aug haste items, they are only aug 3.  I guess I'll do some searching tonight to find what aug 3 slots are available on items.

I was planning to do the 760 armour at some point so I'm hoping one of these has a 3 slot on it.

Larzzus

[Aggy]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.  I've had the Broken Drivebelt for a long time - its always been one of my favorite haste items.

The biggest reason I was considering the switch to the CoF was because it seems that I am frequently (at level 48) grouping in situations where we don't have an enchanter for haste.  The question then would be whether I can reach the haste cap w/o an enchanter around.

I just found this old link I had for max haste per level, which brings up some interesting points.

Level     Max Haste
30         50%  
50         74%  
54         84%  
59         94%  
60         100%

If I am capped at 74% from level 50-54, then I should be able to cap my haste during that period with just alacrity (if there is a shamn in the group - alacrity is 40% haste).  Bards are limited to a 30% haste until level 54, when they get the 45% Vilia's Chorus of Celerity.

At level 54 the haste cap raises to 84%.  If I am grouped with a shaman of level 56 or higher they would cap out my haste with either of the haste items (BD is 34%, CoF is 36%) with Celerity (50% haste).

At level 59 or higher it basically becomes impossible to reach the haste cap w/o a 40%+ haste item - shaman/bard/ench all can to 60% hastes, but only enchanters can do 66% (enough spell haste to reach the cap with a 34% haste item).

Maybe I am putting too much effort into thinking about this!
:lol:

Is 2% more haste worth losing some AC/HP/Stats for?  That's the question!
:)

If I am soloing lets look at some numbers.

If I am doing X damage w/o haste, I do X*1.34 DPS with the belt and X*1.36 with the cloak.  If we plug in some (made up - imaginary) numbers, it makes the difference easier to see:

40DPS unhasted

40*1.34 = 53.6 DPS with the 34% haste Belt

40*1.36 = 54.5 DPS with the 36% haste Cloak

That's a DPS increase of (54.5 - 53.6) / 53.6 = 1.5%

There!  That information should help me decide!

Nah - 1.5% isn't enough to make you say "gimme the haste cloak!" - its just enough to make ya say:

"Anybody else have any htoughts on the subject?"

:)

[Atropine_BB]

You should really be looking at the other things that will make a difference besides just haste and DPS.

By using a CoF, you could be giving up 25-30 raw hps because you want 2% more haste instead of using a superior stat wise back slot item.  Or losing AC and resists...

Crinose Cape of the Werewolf

Hierophants Cloak

Iksar Hide Cape

Lodizal Shell Shield

Prowler's Shadow Cloak

Feathered Cloak of the Lost

IMO, with all these superior stat wise cloak slots that would be easy to obtain, the choice is simple.  Use the BD as you haste item, and buff up other stats with a nice back slot item.  

There aren't many better droppable waist slot items than the BD for beastlords in terms of stats or AC out there anyway...  That's not even mentioning the haste...

[Dysz]

a relatively easy and cheap back slot is crinose cape of the werewolf.  the hp on that warrants the use of the belt slot in my opinion.  just keep both and if you get an overpowering item for either slot, put in the other.  2% haste isn't that big of a deal in my estimation, so the hp is a bigger point than the rest of it.  thats just my thoughts on it though, im the typical hp whore (although ive branched out to wis now!)

[Aggy]

If I was raiding more (I don't raid at all with my BL - he is level 48 ;) ), or if I was in a situation where I had a cleric CHing me mroe often, I would be mroe interested in HP.  

As it is I find HP to be pretty useless to me, whether I am tanking when I solo or doing DPS in a group...extra HP don't really improve your efficiency unless they keep you alive (AEs from raiding, off-tanking heavy hitters, tanking for groups where mobs hit hard....whatever, or if you are getting Complete Healed.

I'd prefer extra DPS or more AC to extra HPs...but I'm not sure which would be more important between the two.

Please don't get me wrong: I do appreciate everybody's feedback - I'm just not in the same situation right now as those of you that psend a lot of time raiding, or doing hard LDoN at level 65...maybe in a few months.
 :wink:

[Atropine_BB]

Well, when you really think about it, and extra point of DPS from haste isn't going to make any difference.  Nor will a few extra AC or HP.  I mean really...  you may kill a mob faster by a few seconds, will that make a gamebreaking difference?  Highly doubtful.

Reaching the haste cap?  Probably not all that big of a deal considering your overall dps isn't going to make or break a group.  Solo... the more haste the better, but it really isn't going to make much more than maybe a 10 second difference in the actual fight.

I guess I don't know what exactly you are trying to get at here.  Neither item will make a dramatic difference over the other.

The only things that will make noticible differences in your dps and playstyle are these:

more than a 10% haste difference in items you use (going from 21% haste to 31% or 36% haste is a HUGE difference)
Flowing Thought
Regen
Weapon Ratio

[Tastian]

Think this thread helps show why so many hang onto off-hand epic for so long.  Me personally I enjoyed cowl of mortality.  Head slot, solid hps, 36% haste, varying graphic.  Left belt open for turtle and back for crinose or lodi or whatever you prefer.  Only time I thought about switching gear around for haste other than for 41% is when I had white dragon helm and wanted CoF + white dragon.  

You go with haste for dps.  Overall maybe a certain combo is better, but I'm the guy who wields weapons for damage.  I'll take a 19 on 20 over an 18 on 20 with 50hps *shrugs*.  A 1.5% increase is pretty sizeable later on.  I wish there were an item I could get or AA I could spend for 1.5% atm.  You are lower level so of course that plays a part.  Really there isn't a "wrong" answer.  All the possible gear setups mentioned are quite good and many bst would love to have any of them.  In your situation I'd probably go CoF + turtle for waist/back combo.  That's largely because of how I value haste/wisdom/stats/saves/etc though.

[Kirinicus]

I was in much the same position, deciding between a CoF and a Spiked Seahorse Belt (also 34% haste). What did I do? Sold them both and got a Cowl of Mortality, of course! One of the better buyable head slots (aside from the Crown of Narandi and White Dragonscale, both like 300k on my screwed up server), plus  36% haste, also some solid Hps to it and a lot of a save that we don't get from many other places.

This left my belt open for a Turtle belt (I figure we are a DPS class anymore, may as well do as much of it as I can), and a Sol Ro Emblazoned Cloak for my back, which is in my opnion the best buyable cloak that we have available.

Check out my Magelo if you need to, but that's the way that I would go personally. Ciao.