Just a small question

[gnomersy]

I would like to know (I play a mage and a Bl mage is main fyi) where you believe the pet classes should be on pet power this is excluding the master except for buffs the master can cast (pet items dont count as they can be bought for 10pp) id like to see your opinions on
1) HP
2) Mitigation
3) Overall Tanking
4) Dps
5) Flexibility(uses in diff. situations)
6) Best overall
This would be between the Necro the Mage and the Bl this will not include what you think about upgrades etc this will be a 1,2,3 list ie. 1) Hp:Bl, Mage, Necro etc id like to have no flames please.[/b]

[Kylaz]

Here is what I'd say, to keep the balance the best:

1) HP : Mage,Bst,Necro
Mages can't slow, necro's pet life tap

2) Mitigation : Mage, Necro, Bst
Mages can't slow, Necro can only sometimes slow

3) Overall Tanking : Mage, Necro, Bst
Mage never tank for their pets, Necro sometimes do(lifetap tanking), Bst almost always do

4) Dps : Bst, Mage, Necro
Mage & Necro have high personal (spell) DPS that can be increased by many AAs.

5) Flexibility(uses in diff. situations) : Mage,Bst,Necro
Mage has many different types of pets - this should be an advantage there. I put necro's pet flexibility lower for necros, because they have so many other utilities they can use to make up for that.
6) Best overall : Bst,Mage,Necro
Because, imho, bsts are much more dependant on pets. A bst without a pet is like a bard that couldn't sing (low dps melee hybrid), I've seen many mages & necros that do not make their pets as soon as they are allowed to - I have yet to see beastlords not creating pets as soon as they can.

[a_moss_snake_001]

/agree Kylaz

Pets are fine the way they are now though. Mage pets are now SIGNIFICANTLY better than beast pets at overall tanking/mitigation and do approx the same DPS (though less streaky due to casting instead of proccing).

Mages should be VERY happy now.

[Hrann]

I like kylaz's ratings.  

However, there's no good comparison since beastlords essentially have 1 pet at any given time.  Mages have pets that are better than beasts in every way, just not all at the same time.

[gnomersy]

yeah but pets in general should suck less i hear and also i think a bst-pet doesnt go splat as fast as mage minus pet

[Coprolith]

i think a bst-pet doesnt go splat as fast as mage minus pet

Only when soloing and the pet is somehow killed. In a group or on a raid  bst-pet still has to put himself on the frontline, whereas a mage-pet is sitting in the relative safety outside the mobs melee range.
Besides, that's already balanced out by the fact that a mage-pet isnt such a pathetic little baby as a BL-pet when it comes to offense.

/hugs

[Vidyne]

Aye, ive seen mage pets go from being barely better to my pet... to see a friend's air pet tank a BoT millitis down by itself without a heal.

We were duoing in BoT(is a little risky), I slowed her mob, I slowed mine, we went at it since it was an add, my pet on one, hers on one.  I was tanking/pet clericing mine while she played with hers.  Hers fell with mine around 40% life left, and her pet wasnt even below 40% life.

I had to throw 1 or 2 HoSs on my pet though, cant remember.

Bst pets make fine tanks.... not really for Tier3, but they are fine and we are happy.

Mages should be EXTREMELY happy though, as they got treated very well and their pets are super now.  They got CA3 and ND3 for the pet, along with extra mitigation innate right?

The thing is just a TANK.  Especially if a mage had ND3 and CA3 for pet, id let the pet be MA on pet groups, it doesnt need heals.

I for one am glad to see them get such an upgrade.  My mage friend solos now, something she never did before.

[Dakat]

You cant compare the mage air pet to our pet.  Nor compare how fast they killed a mob faster than you did.

A 65 mage will out damage us by far just by their nukes alone.  As for their pets, the Air Pet, is their worst tanking pet. It has the lowest hp of all mage pets.  Air pet is a rogue pet as well.  The Air Pet also regens its hp twice as fast as our pets. Maybe because thats how low their hp are.

With the new improved upgrades they made to mage pets, might get it close to our pet, we are slightly higher on the scale.  Their earth pet will probably outdo our pets, since theirs is a warrior class pet.

If your pet and the mage air pet stood toe to toe with a mob, both mobs slowed, you or the mage not nuking/doting mob, I would wager that our pet would go down last.

[Tastian]

Mage air pet owns because of it's stun.  This has been tested a lot by seeing how the loss of damage through stuns verse the higher mitigation of the earth pet works out.

"If your pet and the mage air pet stood toe to toe with a mob, both mobs slowed, you or the mage not nuking/doting mob, I would wager that our pet would go down last"

Not true.  Mage pets even without AAs now mitigate damage a heck of a lot better than beastlord pets.  I couldn't even fathom pet-cleric'n a spot like HoH.

[a_moss_snake_001]

I'm actually convinced that Mages are not going to stop complaining until they get made better than every other class at everything in the game. This includes soloing, group dps, raid dps, utility etc. Basically they want everything, on a stick.. now.

They can already solo in HoH using their pet heal on unslowed mobs. I find that pretty impressive since I can't do that reliably even using slow.

I had to laugh the other day, my EP geared mage friend was complaining about only doing 430 dps max burst and only being able to sustain 310 consistently.

Even after all those pet upgrades many are still complaining that it isn't enough and the gap between their pets and the bst/necro pets isnt wide enough. Though they dont seem to provide parses to prove this. Hmmm.

[gnomersy]

gap seems fine to me =P although do your higher level summons show up at your level? mage pets did at low levels now there blue even the level i get em =( also all pets are hitting like girls right now the focus item from time should let the pets hit like ep/vt players though that might be a bit unfair dunno but i hear max dmg on pets is pretty low and the pet aa's mostly suck for the costs

[Skog]

(From the standpoint of pet only as you asked in your post)

1) HP- Mage, Beast, Necro
2) Mitigation- Mage, Beast, Necro
3) Overall Tanking - Mage, Beast, Necro
4) Dps- Mage, Beast, Necro
5) Flexibility(uses in diff. situations) - Mage, Beast, Necro
6) Best overall - Mage, Beast, Necro

This is how it should be simply because while we may have a strong pet, we are not based around having the strongest. Clerics are supposed to have the best heals, Shaman the best slows, Warriors the best tankability and Mages are supposed to have the best pets. They are a class "highly focused" on Damage (or at least are supposed to be).

The "pet upgrades" were in mitigation and all in all are fine (Keep in mind we are the only pet class with slow), but there are other areas of pets that can use some help.

Also keep in mind that we have 1 pet- something that is both a benefit and a hindrance, as is Mage's 5 pet arsenal (although I could say 4, I hear the fire is worthless 50+).  The Earth pet (the tank) has low damage to offset it's mitigation and also roots, making it non group friendly. Our Warder outdamages it and is highly group friendly, so if it were to tank as well as it there would be an imbalance, see what I mean? If warder DPS were to match Mage damage pet (it is very very close at the moment, within 5% I hear) then that would cause an imbalance because the warder would then outank the damage pet (it does now) and do as much damage as it. The Mage can not have all the benefits of the different pets at once.

We need to stop with the class envy and trying to dethrone a king that we are already pushing off the seat. Wanting a pet better then a Mage's is just like Druids wanting actual CH or Paladins wanting defensive. From the lists that I have seen our major problem as a class is pet shrink. Sure there are wants but I haven't seen many serious class balance issues, so why whine about Mages? Let them have the best pet (and improve thiers so there is an actual difference all around), it doesn;t bother me. I'll continue to be what I am- a Beastlord.

[gnomersy]

I had to laugh the other day, my EP geared mage friend was complaining about only doing 430 dps max burst and only being able to sustain 310 consistently.

well how much does an ep wizzy or ep rogue sustain and burst? i personally dont know but id figure its around there or higher

[Toln]

EP Wizards also put out dps in that range, around the 400s at best.
EP Necros are slightly behind at 350-400s, just depends on the fight.

Not sure about rogues, but i'm guessing they are far up there too in that range. A rogue with a good dagger can put out some impressive damage.

[cougerofeq]

In the begining there were several classes and BST was not one of them.  Back then the mage pet was second best to the necro pet(as I recall). At some point as I recall that changed and the mage pet(s) became best. I dont know how Mages claimed the everlasting "best pet" title since they didnt have it in the begining but they have.

BST were added and now we always hear that the Mage pet has to be best - even if the mage overall has more utility and DPS. Just doesn't make sense to me. The BST and his/her warder needs to be whatever makes it balanced. That can be adjusted as needed by changing the BST or the warder.

I have always worried about the "squeeky gear getting the grease" and so far thats what happens in EQ. Mages are now wizards with the best pets and we are the target of envy and calls for nerfs - boggles the mind. If it wasnt for slow id never get a group and if it wasnt for SD/paragon Id never get a guild and yet - nerf nerf is all I hear from mages and some others. Makes me hate EQ on some level

. Why must we as BST be unhappy just to stay happy?????