Just a small question

[Varigoneq]

1) The Classes are not balanced
2) The Classes will never be balanced
3) SOE has never known how to balance a class due to lack of experience in that class or the ability to interpret the data they recieve on that class.
4) Beastlords  and Mages can function in Solo Roles and each provide unique skills to a group.  Each of them in the same  group would be a formitable team.

all of this discussion is  kinda pointless in light of the above 4 idea statements that most know to be true.  Comparing the Paladin/Warrior struggle to this is reaching.    Beastlords and Mages serve two different purposes.   Paladins and Warriors were both designed to fit the same slot in a group.   While several  paladins do want to tank as well, and several  warriors do want to tank as well, remember tanking is not a one skill job (agro, Mitigation, and Hps all  apply.)  SOE has upended  both classes and made them too weak to do thier jobs (ie Paladins can hold agro the best but die the easiest, Warriors can survive better but cant hold agro worth crap.  SOE has added skills to the warrior to make them take hits better but that wasnt thier problem, and at the  same time made it harder for paladins to hold agro.)

EQ is dying due to POP, GoD, and the amazing lack of skill at 'Class Balancing.'  It was a fun game in its youth, but its time is passing.  If we keep saying that Mages should be better,  NO Beasties should be better, etc... then they will destroy these classes as well trying to solve the death of EQ thinking this will solve it.   SOE has never understood the dynamics of what gets people to play the game. or keep them here.   And they dont understand the dynamics of  groups and how they function.

[gnomersy]

I'm sorry about my lack of punctuation its just I don't like to spend much time typing up my posts, and its been so long since I've actually had to use it without typing up essays with spell check etc. Also about the slow if they stuck a slow went up slowly as leveling on the earth pet and maybe up its natural agi to 75 supposedly its bellow that it would finally be usefull for something, the reason I say finally is that: 1)it has high hp and mitigation but low damage which clearly means it isnt meant for a group enviroment 2)it roots also unwanted for groups and 3)it takes more damage due to lack of avoidance. So the earth pet was meant to be the solo pet and if the earth pet is the intended solo pet it should do that job best, So in order to make it tank best and effectively you give it a slow that id say is one spell level behind the beastlords meaning if at 45 you get a shammy spell that does 30% the earth pet would use one that the shammy gets before that on our 44 pets (just an example dunno diddly about the slow line atm) it would make the earth pet worth using and would make it tank better than the air since slow ought to take out enough rounds that it would beat the stun on air.

[Fibbs]

to answer the original question.

Mage Pets are better than all in my opinion, they just have more innate abilities to get them through. Toe to toe against another pet ONLY.
And if it were a list
1. Mage
2. BL
3. Necro
4. Sham
5. Druid teddy bear

However I find myself a little confused why we are comparing completely different classes here based on why one should be better than the other.

Don't get me wrong (ie don't Flame me its just my take on the issue) But,

It appears to me some may be missing some key facts here.

There is no pet without its master. You have to consider the whole unit before you can say one PET is better than the other. which means Skills and Abilities are involved based on the class and the knucklehead driving the toon.

Mage is a caster (no snare)
Beastlord is a Melee/Buffer
Necro is caster (with snare and FD)
Shaman is a Buffer/healer (with root)
Druid (just plain suck) j/k

Now looking at these its clear that the pet was developed (back in the day before beastlords) as either an agro buffer or control and/or source of sustained dps. NOT a primary source of combat dps.

The game was very different back then, very different but the dynamics are still the same.

All these classes use their pets situationaly based on their skills and abilities. I have experienced first hand BL, Necro and Mage at high levels and its clear to me
1. I like pet classes
2. Its silly wishing one was better than the other based on Jabober's melee output.
3. its silly whining that a Mage can drop Flippy Darkpaw faster than a Necro when Necro can drop Gix V'whateverhisnamewas better.

These things arguments come about in my opinion cause Shittymage Noidea saw Talented Killerbeast solo Phinny. When we all know both classes are capable of doing it to start with.

Finaly if you set out to play a pet class with the thought that Jabober will do all the work for you, you will be dissapointed.

Class balancing issues;
EQ no matter how much we love it is slowly coming to an end. I still enjoy it though, but hats off to the numnuts who have made a game last this long, Class balancing would be very difficult to achieve no matter what game it is.

My question anyone remember the mage fire pets that used to buff other pets around them? Do those pets still do this? if not Thats an abilitiy I'd love to see given back to mages.

Fibbs

[Graace]

Personal opinions follow :P  if you wanna provide facts whathave you to say I'm wrong, more power to you.  But if you use the everquest definitions of what each class is 'supposed' to do I'm gonna ask that someone thump you upside the head :P  As we all know what "working as intended" means.

When it comes to pets... what I think would put them all in line...

Mage pets are best, that's all wonderful.

Beastlord pets should probably deal as much dps as their lower end pet choice of their 4.  And tank slightly worse than their Earth pet or somewhere in the middle of all their pets combined.

Arguing over utilities that eachother has really doesn't get anyone anywhere.  Mages have gate, we have sow, both of us can atain one of the other via potions/items/AA with ease.  The statement that beastlords get slow is near irrelevant for a good reason... in zones where you actually aquire somewhat descent experience, ie Earth+ the slow won't land without enc, shaman, bard, or mag in the group throughout the majority of the fight.  Soloing, in areas like HOH, slow matters little as well since it gets resisted a fair deal still, and it's mitigated.  To toss into the mix the manacost of beastlord pets is next to insane as I understand compared to mages to buff them up.

Then throw yourself into a raid setting, beastlord slow I so very rarely load as most raids are going to have several shamen and enchanters around tossing out a better slow.  Basically beastlords are a buffbot on raids and mages are COH bots.  Until you throw DPS in the mix, in which case a mage will make a beastlord look like a sad panda.  My weapons alone put me at I wanna say near 120ish dps on my own then pet's 70ish?  Nukes add on a bit, but not by much as I understand, esp when you get resists...things seem to like to resist cold, might jsut be me.  I'm not a parser, I'm just going by what I've read on these boards since their inception even back on the old board.  But from everything I've heard... beastlords are well behind classes like monk, mag, wiz, rogue, ranger etc for dps when you get higher and higher up in the scale of things.

"Master of Pets" and claiming to must have the best pet is all well and good, but as of right now, I'm hard pressed to see a real reason why any pet class should have the absolute ultimate pet when the fact is all 3 are dependant on their pet for the dps they put out which is apart of their utility.  I think the "master of pets" mentality comes from the fact that they can chose which pet to use for which situation, to me that's probably a good strength... reading it all over I kinda wanna make a mage to see what it's all about :).

Personally, I'd like to just see even power, but each pet unique in some way shape or form through the AAs/individual class spells.

So boiling it down from something kinda longwinded... both classes are DPS and one way or another, beastlords should be brought up to par with other classes.  Pretty sure monks and rangers are up in the 300ish range for consistant dps where I think I'm lucky to reach 250... I got some good gear but I'm far from uberfabulous.  (Course, I don't have excel to use to actually use the DPS calc to figure it up /cry).  So I think bsts need a pet boost to make them closer in line with the mage pets on average and a boost to dps in some way shape or form so I don't look so pathetic to my guildies :P