Spirit of Undalla (68lvl warder)

[Quezic Grahl]

Got the 68 pet tonite, was lucky and traded a lesser rune for a muramite rune with a mage who needed one of his 67 spells.  Anyway, I took it out for a spin just killing greens in Dranik's scar to see how it did...it's definitely an improvement, but I did notice, the pet didn't get a single critical hit in the 10 minutes or so I was killing things.  That seemed a little odd...anyway, not panicing yet hehe, will look closely tomorrow and see for sure.  Maybe just a run of bad luck for the pet.

[Eatbugs]

umm . . . says who? mages?

The devs have said so, several times.  As a practical matter, Mages need pets that tank slightly better than ours if they're going to solo - Mages don't get slow, their pet heals are fairly weak, and they can't tank for the pet past level 35 or so.

[Essant]

Aye, its true .. been doing it this morning.  

DPoC focused 68 warder with no real buffs or gear except growl and relic can tank WoS trash pretty darn well.

Get yourself some nice mana regen going and you can solo decently there now.

[Tastian]

I don't have logs here with me atm, but I believe from my DPoC testing level 68 pet was crit'n for 148 (which is what I expected from my other WF parses).  I'm still trying to compile data of level 68 w/arag, 68 w/growl, 68 w/dpoc, 68 w/moe, etc, but I seem to be short on time lately lol.  Also hurting on good parsing mobs.  8(  No hp testing or defensive testing done yet, but I'll try to get some finished up by the end of the weekend.

[Gospodar]

I parse pretty much every m'sha fight in Qvic for me and warder.

Old pet did ~80ish dps on average

Lvl 68 pet does ~105 on average(max was 125 on 1 kill) but has new haste as well so that adds a bit as well.....

That is after ~12ish fights there pretty constant dps around 105ish....

[Aneya]

The devs have said so, several times.  As a practical matter, Mages need pets that tank slightly better than ours if they're going to solo - Mages don't get slow, their pet heals are fairly weak, and they can't tank for the pet past level 35 or so.

I remember seeing a parse that showed that Rathe's Son takes 50 to 75% less dps than our lvl 64 warder under the same conditions. I wish could find the parse to double check. At any rate, the reduction in damage taken by Mage pets is rougthly equivalent to our slow spell. In other words, agains mobs that mitigate slow we get the short end of the stick. Which is why I get annoyed when a mage eats through An Archaic Model in PoI while I have trouble with them. This is also why Shamans complain so much about slow mitigations and immunity.

In true BST fashion, our pets like everything else is only second best at best. Unlike the majority of classes in EQ, we are generalist not specialist.

[Eatbugs]

I remember seeing a parse that showed that Rathe's Son takes 50 to 75% less dps than our lvl 64 warder under the same conditions.

I'd be interested in seeing those parses, but I suspect your memory has inflated that figure a great deal - the Mage equivalent for our slow spell in a solo situation is higher burst dps, at a cost of increased down time.  In any case, I hadn't meant to turn this into another Mage vs. BST thread, only to respond to what I considered an unjustified complaint about our pet power.  Our pets tank well enough, they don't need an upgrade.  As you point out, we're a generalist class - second best in a lot of things tends to add up to awfully good overall.

(By the way, Archaic Models are slowable since the last patch - dunno if that was intended or not.)

[Tastian]

~40% is the number me and some others came up with.  Haven't re-tested in awhile, but that's what I recall.

[Dakat]

several months back on a post i pretty much got mad at someone here saying how much better mages are to beasts.  Get this crap out of here 8~).

Anyways the post mentioned exactly the 40% less damage a mage pet takes compared to our 64 pet.

Look around here and you can find that post.

[Aneya]

http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17878

Paraphrase:
Spirit of Sorsha defensive DPoC and 65% slow
Overall Average Damage: 386

Rathe's Son Defensive
Overall Average Damage: 235

Ward of Xegony Defensive
Overall Average Damage: 255

Difference
1.64 for Rathe's Son
1.51 for Ward of Xegony

So according to this, on average Bst pet takes 50 to 64% more damage per hit thus compensating for the fact that we have slow.

Edit, btw, 0.60 is the inverse of 1.66 so we are sorta both right no? IE mage pet takes 40% less is equivalent to bst pet taking 66% more damage. We're just arguing whether the glass is half empty or half full. :P

[Eatbugs]

So according to this, on average Bst pet takes 50 to 64% more damage per hit thus compensating for the fact that we have slow.

Um - while numbers you used from Bengali's post do show Mage pets mitigating better, you left out the figures that actually matter.  Yes, Bengali's pet mitigated considerably worse in that parse than the Mage pets in Xalmat's parses did.  However, with a slowed mob the total mob dps on the pet in those two fights was almost 50% less on the BST pet  than what the Mage pets took.  I'd hardly call that compensating for slow.

[Pheral]

Anyone know the hit points of the Spirit of Aladnu pet?  I did some tests dueling a druid and the numbers point to this pet having only around 5400 hit points.  This showed the same regardless of focus (tried unfocused, Minion of Eternity and Ritual Summoning).

I can post the numbers if people want but I can't believe that our pets wouldn't have more hit points the the previous level so I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong.

Ex. (small sample of the numbers I got)

Hp Damage	Pet Health %	Damage Done %	Calculated Hp
478	91	9	5311.1
1565	71	29	5396.6
3286	39	61	5386.9

[Aneya]

Um - while numbers you used from Bengali's post do show Mage pets mitigating better, you left out the figures that actually matter.  Yes, Bengali's pet mitigated considerably worse in that parse than the Mage pets in Xalmat's parses did.  However, with a slowed mob the total mob dps on the pet in those two fights was almost 50% less on the BST pet  than what the Mage pets took.  I'd hardly call that compensating for slow.

You seem to be forgetting this section.

Because I had to slow the mob to really do the test, the DPS numbers are skewed. Also the the accuracy numbers are skewed because my warder enraged and started to auto-riposte.

THE ONLY STAT WORTH COMPARING FOR THESE PARSES WOULD THEREFORE BE THE AVERAGE HIT. THE REST OF THE NUMBERS WILL BE SOMEWHAT MISLEADING.

Therefor that dps value you are refering to can not be counted on as beind accurate.

If you want an alternate parse the closest you can get is
http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1739
However, he equiped the warder with mage equipment which raises the warders ac and thus reduces the average damage per hit. That would need to be factored in since your average bst won't have mage summoned items when soloing.

On the other hand we normaly don't have our pets tank 100% of the time when soloing but that's a whole different can of worms.

What is useful to know is that when a mage and a bst duos, the mage pet should off tank. That way you get the best of both worlds. Slowed mob + less damage taken by pet.

[Eatbugs]

Actually, I'm not forgetting that section at all.  The reason Bengali put that caution in there was that the comparison he was making was between a BST pet tanking a slowed mob, and a Mage pet tanking an unslowed mob.  For the purposes of that thread, (which was about mitigation and avoidance only, not slow) the dps figure wasn't relevant.  However, since your argument was that Mage pet mitigation is enough to make up for their lack of slow, (an argument based on comparative dps, NOT mitigation alone) that comparison is completely relevant to this thread.  

In fact, the figures you're quoting from clearly contradict the point you claim they make.

[Dakat]

yeah, but the mage pet has armor equipped. How did the beast fare with the exact same gear on her pet?