Pet aggro = my aggro?

Hrann · January 28, 2004, 05:25:32 PM

OK, I've seen this question before, and even "corrected" someone with possibly the wrong information. I'm not sure what to believe now.

Hypothetical:
There's a bunch of people fighting a mob.
My pet and I are also fighting it.
Mob has X hate for my pet.
Mob has Y hate for me.
Pet dies.
What hate does mob have for me?

Previously, I would have thought Y. Now, I am not sure if it is X+Y. What's the truth?

If my pet and I are meleeing and the MT is meleeing, and my pet dies, I've never seen the mob switch towards me. On raids where my pet dies, he undoubtedly has the highest or close to the highest aggro, since I always leave tauut on. How come the raid mob never switches to me?

Noriko · January 28, 2004, 05:28:42 PM

Your pet and you are two separate entries on the mob's hate list. But mob X hates pet = mob X hates you. You can be sure that you are in there somewhere but you might not be next.

Hrann · January 28, 2004, 05:38:43 PM

I know we're two seperate identities, and I know that some small amount of hate is added to me just for hitting /pet attack, but lately I've seen people saying that when the pet dies, we get their hate added on top of ours. Is this true? I didn't think it was.

Noriko · January 28, 2004, 05:59:46 PM

Hmmm... how would you test that .... may be ...

2 bst, same race class level, etc. Summon same pet, no buff, both attack a mob, the 2 bst stay away, one pet has taunt on, one off, both pet go away at once and see who the mob goes to? Do it multiple time to account for RNG?

Grymlok · January 28, 2004, 07:28:40 PM

Pet attacking a mob gives you 1 hate (the initial engagement, not for each blow landed). So if your pet dies, you have the hate you generated +1.

Hrann · January 28, 2004, 07:46:49 PM

Well, you have that much hate even if your pet doesn't die.

What you are saying is what I believed all along. I'm not sure where people got that other theory then.

Tytallia · January 28, 2004, 08:54:50 PM

People will blame anything and everything on pets to cover their own (or friends) mistakes.

DiosT · January 28, 2004, 09:20:19 PM

I think it's more like this:

if Player's Hate alone > Pet hate, Mob goes for the player
if Pet's hate > Players hate alone, mob goes for Player

Otherwise, player hate = Pet + personal hate.. note that I said above if player's hate -alone-..

Remember that mob's -reallllly- hate the caster that summoned pets after the pet died...

If pet hate is 100% seperate from player hate, then when a mob kills a pet, it should EASILY change to the cleric that was healing it, or another caster...

a magi who does 4k in nukes shouldn't out agro a wizard doing 8k damage, unless the pet hate factors in...

Also, when a magi sits down after sicking his pet on something, the mob has hate for the player as well, and a good amount too, since mobs will attack the caster if they sit too soon after sending in the pet (caster must get some amount of hate when he sicks the pet in the first place, or the mob would not know to attack the player after the pet dies, the mob knows who the pet owner is, and sets up the person in the hate list)

Valsuvious · January 29, 2004, 05:51:12 AM

Ask some of the beastlords who use their pets vs, Vallon Zek in time. I'm sure they can attest to you on if their pets getting the agro increaser and it transferring to them if they get close to VZ. I don't know if it's still true, but I know at least I've heard one of them complaining a while ago that their pet didn't dodge the AE and they did, but the second that they got in melee range, they got agro (and didn't use any spells).

Mortan · January 29, 2004, 05:56:47 AM

Healing a pet generates absolutly no aggro, or if it does it's so minimual it's not even noticed.

But to answer your questions, I seem to remimber a while back when they were makeing all the changes to how much exp a pet gets from a kill...they changed how pet hate works. If I recall, they changed it so that the hate your pet generates will be added to your own hate, so even tho you are two seperat entites on the mobs hate list your hate will allways be equal to Your Hate + Pet's Hate. This was done to bring mage aggro back inline with other classes, specifically wizzys.

While I don't have hard evidence, I can tell you emperically that it works this way. When my mage nukes while his pet is engaged, he has to be alot more careful with his damage output or he pulls aggro. But if he dosen't have a pet engaged, he can pour on the nukes alot stronger without getting aggro. I don't think it's an exact 1-1 transfer of hate to the pet owner, but I do believe that a goodly portion of it is transfered to the owner.

Grymlok · January 29, 2004, 12:09:01 PM

Not a chance. If I received my pet's hate, I would tank every mob I engaged, especially in groups. Proccing +hate AND stuns is an insane amount of aggro.

DiosT · January 29, 2004, 02:11:39 PM

ok, assuming a beastlord and shaman where hunting together, the beastlord pulls, shaman slows, and beastlord pet attacks it..

pet tanks the mob til the pet dies, neither beastlord nor shaman do anythign else...

Mob would probably go for the beastlord... why ?

I think some of the hate is shared at least... it also explains why magicians had such a problem sitting after sending their pet... if pets shared NO agro with the master, then the master should not have recieved any hate, and the pet should easily have kept the mob occupied...

Scalewulf · January 30, 2004, 05:43:32 PM

The original question was what happens when pet dies.

When pet is alive, I think we share some of its agro, but when pet dies a HUGE amount of it comes to us.

I've personally been on the ass end of this many times on long fights (raiding).

MT goes down, my pet right there on hate list. The backup tank is right there trying to get aggro, but as soon as pet bites it... I get summoned and smacked around. And this is without me doing much of anything to generate any agro (on the one particular instance). So I was nowhere near the top of the hate list, our pets always are. When she died, I was put up top.

Hrann · January 30, 2004, 06:07:47 PM

OK, so it sounds like no one really know for sure how this works. I'm starting to lean back to thinking that I was wrong all along. So, testing needs to be done. I'll see what I can come up with and report back.

TheOriginalGronker · January 30, 2004, 07:05:23 PM

Gotta say that I've never seen the "Huge amount of hate transferred to pet owner" thing. As I understood it, chanters used to (still do?) get some of the hate their charmed pets generated by attacking but really not sure if this is still around (or I'm pulling stuff outta thin air to begin with on this one).

But ... for BSTs this doesn't seem to be the case. Send pet in to kill something (not while sitting), have a partner go up to the mob and zap it with something/whack it a few times. Let the pet tank and die, see who the mob goes after. In less extreme cases it sure wasn't me - typically if Snuggles is offtanking and he falls due to various circumstances that mob will head straight for the healer thats given me a top-up at some point. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen very often I lose my pet (maybe half a dozen times in as many months) but mob behaviour would seem to point at no hate being "transferred" to me.

I'll try and verify this when I get a chance unless someone beats me to it though.