Ferocity

[Humlaine]

This is a touchy subject, but I wanna see where and what people want this to be, I wanna see how you feel, so please express why you want it to be what you voted for, Information is key for this, I do not wanna push for something the majority does not want.

[recoil silverclaws]

Voted single cast spell.

The spell it self in essence is a good idea and one ive allways liked but of the years it has lost its use and fallen short of what it used to be in resent times.

Making it a group spell dose nothing but make it a REALLY high mana cost spell for very little return,what it all ready is prity much. So making it a group spell with out fixing the problems just makes the problems bigger.

[Spiritclaw]

I voted for single cast and aura.  If we could use it as an aura, then it would affect pets as well as players.  While most players may be at max atk, I'm not so sure about pets.  Would love if they could do more than just add more atk and mediocre resists though.

[Fightclubx]

if their not gonna improve the spell line, i'd like to see it turned into an aura so I dont have to worry about people asking me to buff them with a worthless high mana cost buff that are taking up nuke spots.

[Humlaine]

I voted for Aura, and single cast, speaking I really dont feel group fero will help us but hurt in the long run, as stated before the mana cost would be ungodly and with the aura it would hit pets, and players alike..

Just a side note, if you dont read SoE boards, Fero is supposed to be reworked to make it worth while again, least thats the information I have at the current time.

[Adruger]

I am hoping they rework it to useful, because right now all it does is sap my DPS in favor of a few more to some other class.  I have posted the information, explained it 6 ways to hell and yet I get tells from people every raid because they want their attack number high.  I don't mind this so much before the fights though I would rather go into a named FM and use it on the mob than someones ego, but getting them in the middle of the fight is just stupid.  It isn't worth losing my dps to give some random rogue/ranger/monk at most 11 more dps.

Save a rework, I would almost rather just lose the spell.  At this point I don't need Fero to cap out my resists, and the attack while nice looking has little effect.  Add corruption to it and at least it would have a limited use again.  If its supposed to raise resists raise them all.

It irritates me to no end that I am supposed to lower my DPS so another class gets higher, and yet when they post the parses I slip down out of the top 5 because I was helping someone else get into it.  A past Raid Leader told me to just ignore them, but he has since disappeared.

[Rilelil]

Honestly I  would rather see just one spell a Aura.  If we have a Aura  the a single cast is really kinda irrelevant as I am not going to mem 2 different fero spells to accomplish  what one can do. Either way the spell line needs something to make it more useful.

[Nusa]

Voted toss it and create something new. Last couple "upgrades" have really just been useless spells that take up one of the small number of spells we get with expansions. As for "reworking" fero, fine, fix TSS version of the spell, don't use it as an excuse for another "upgrade" that may or may not work for us.

When I do use Ferocity it's mainly for the resists, and I load the original level 65 version for that. Why spend 750 or 900+ mana when 600 will do the same job.

[Urim]

The spell line itself worn itself out. The upgrades needed to make it worthwhile to cast are too great for the developers to even consider. Making it a group would not improve its viability in the least as mana cost would assuredly increase an equal amount to keep it worthless to cast. Making it into an aura that doesn't cost any mana I am sure is not even a twinkle in a developers eyes unless they nerf it into a completely laughable state (as opposed to the just regular laughable state it currently is in).

I vote for completely ending the line the way it is. Give us something completely new that will: a) give us a meaningful contribution to groups/raids, and b)something that we will actually want to cast and be worth it to cast.

Current ideas off the top of my head that would be beneficial in nature: accuracy buff or buff that increases/gives triple attack ability for short time.

Or maybe give us something detrimental in nature for raid/group utility such as: Lowering mobs accuracy, or debuff that gives NPC a reverse lifetap.

All i can think of atm this late at night. I am sure there are tons of possibilities to replace a dieing line that won't receive the necessary improvements to make it worthwhile.

[Tiroon]

Group spell and useful.

I'm not comfortable with the devs going the completely new line of thinking. It would be open to "lets toss them something that looks good on paper and when it's parsed to be useless we can always promise to fix it". It'll just be another year of getting strung along.

Sorry not much love here for auras. Cool in concept but only half hour duration buff with no info of remaining duration and impossible to refresh unless removed through context menu just is another half finished SOE idea.

[Khauruk]

I think we'd be fools to consider this until beta has started, and we have the the ears of Prathun and Rashere/Maddoc.

There are substantial mob AC changes planned, and Rashere seems to have some other stuff his sleeve (hinted).  The reversal of mob AC stagnation will potentially give ferocity the uses it once had.  Beta will give us many more chances at direct developer communication regarding the Ferocity line, and we'll get a clue as to how the expansion will pan out.  This beta cycle will also be double (?) the length of previous ones, so that oughta help as well.

Comments on the options though:
*Group spell:  Expect triple the mana cost minimum.  Would need to be /tgbable.
*Aura:  Useless unless you're in a dps group.  Would make us a third rate dps group supporter, as I doubt Fero would be made to surpass the benefit of shammy or bard spells/songs.  Not to mention lacking group heal ability.
*Group + single:  Do you really want to take away a spell slot for this?  We'lll only get a certain # of spells (and probably 1 disc).  We're at the point where we need upgrades for our DON spell which will take away a spell slot as well.  We're also looking for upgraded haste - another spelll slot.  Don't forget about cures - another spell slot.
*Throw it out:  Devs have been very resistant to this idea so far....this would be hard to convince them of.

[Humlaine]

By the time beta is here, and its comming quick it will be too late, beta is less then 2 weeks away, and I do not forsee Fero becomming useful off of one change to mobs AC unless he plans on completely overhauling all the mobs in EQ with AC changes and softcap issues which would take a long time mind you, fero will still stay useless, thus the whole topic of this thread

[Khauruk]

By the time beta is here, and its comming quick it will be too late, beta is less then 2 weeks away, and I do not forsee Fero becomming useful off of one change to mobs AC unless he plans on completely overhauling all the mobs in EQ with AC changes and softcap issues which would take a long time mind you, fero will still stay useless, thus the whole topic of this thread

Attack and AC are two sides of the same coin.  The only reason returns on attack stagnate is due to stagnated mob AC.  (I wish somebody VT keyed would do a good set of attack parses...I think they'd be illuminating).  The only way to make attack useful is to raise mob AC.

There also is no attack softcap, in code.  Player attack formulas *do not* (dev confirmed) work like player AC values.  There may seem to be a softcap on attack, but that varies from mob to mob as the NPC's AC changes.

As far as how wide-reaching the changes will be...I don't know.  I've written to Rashere asking him to backdate these changes across the last few expansion (say, omens onward), but I don't know if that will happen.  I'll try to re-PM him about it shortly...I can only hope for the best.

If we are going to push for other changes to the buff, we Bunnies! well need to start to agree on some form of them (and I'm not talking about the group vs. single).  I also think we have a good chance to get a modification to the defensive side of the buff - I've PM'ed Prathun about that as well.  My votes go towards overcap accuracy and subject-to-the-worn-cap spell shielding/dot shielding.

Haste upgrade idea:  Haste aura - same as our current haste, but just as an aura.


*edited due to some words violating our rules*

[TabarQuell]

I'm unsure of what to pick for ferocity really, there is a softcap, it's just not a 'coded' softcap.

there comes a point in the gains of attack where once you pass it, any additional gains you get past this point will start to have less and less of an effect, it's diminishing returns.

guesstimated numbers to illustrate:

     0 attack will net you  0% of your full attack potential
1000 attack will net you 80% of your full attack potential
2000 attack will net you 95%
3000 attack will net you 99%

I'd have to hear of the proposed effects on the new ferocity... but in it's current form i'd have to say 'scrap it for something else' or 'aura and spell' at least to make it not suck so much on my mana.

[thor]

I'm unsure of what to pick for ferocity really, there is a softcap, it's just not a 'coded' softcap.

there comes a point in the gains of attack where once you pass it, any additional gains you get past this point will start to have less and less of an effect, it's diminishing returns.

guesstimated numbers to illustrate:

     0 attack will net you 0% of your full attack potential
1000 attack will net you 80% of your full attack potential
2000 attack will net you 95%
3000 attack will net you 99%

I'd have to hear of the proposed effects on the new ferocity... but in it's current form i'd have to say 'scrap it for something else' or 'aura and spell' at least to make it not suck so much on my mana.

This is actually untrue because if you used your base on one mob with mid lvl ac and then another mob with super high ac the attack would give more benefit it all depends on the ac of what your fighting once your attack is at a certain point for that ac lvl then and only then does the value drop.